The place to ask China-related questions!
Beijing Shanghai Guangzhou Shenzhen Chengdu Xi'an Hangzhou Qingdao Dalian Suzhou Nanjing More Cities>>

Categories

Close
Welcome to eChinacities Answers! Please or register if you wish to join conversations or ask questions relating to life in China. For help, click here.
X

Verify email

Your verification code has been sent to:

Didn`t receive your code? Resend code

By continuing you agree to eChinacities's Privacy Policy .

Sign up with Google Sign up with Facebook
Sign up with Email Already have an account? .
Posts: 292

Governor

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

Q: Does the term Laowai really bother you that much?

Some people I know get really annoyed when they are called Laowai. I just don't think I really care that much. ONly been annoyed by it once, when someone dismissed everything I was saying because 'Laowai's always say that'. But I just thought he was being an ass, but maybe having the term encourages thinking in a very generalised way. What do you think?

10 years 11 weeks ago in  General  - China

 
Answers (19)
Comments (15)
Posts: 7204

Emperor

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

On a BCD it can get pretty responsive on my part . You want to say something ? It will cost you 5 yuan to stare  10 yuan to talk and if you want a photo of the occasion you must first buy me Lunch or Dinner. I have a shirt I wear with this written on it . My wife hates this shirt

Report Abuse
10 years 11 weeks ago
 
Posts: 1198

Shifu

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

foreigner is more or less an insult. the chinese also know that it isnt a friendly word... if i say that word back in my home country they wont be happy about it either

Report Abuse
10 years 11 weeks ago
 
Posts: 1547

Emperor

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

Depends on who's saying it.  Random kid passing by....what're you gonna do? Just smile and keep walking.

 

Sitting in on a meeting at work, or together with Chinese friends for a meal, where everyone knows your name....being referred to as laowai in this instance grates my nerves a bit.

Report Abuse
10 years 11 weeks ago
 
Posts: 9631

Emperor

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

Unlike cooter. I find it particular offensive when it is a random stranger passing. The word "laowei" is fine. The way it is used sucks. Why is it impossible for a Chinese person to walk past a foreigner without having to comment on it. I have never heard friends and family use the word with me in the room. I do hear my wife sometimes calls me the name of my country so I will not know she is talking about me with others (except my Chinese is far better than people think) 

 

cooter:

If the random person happens to be a (supposedly) grown adult, then yeah...I will take offense to it.  I was just giving an example on one end of the spectrum (a young kid).  I can't fault him for his parents raising him without any manners.

 

The last time this happened, I called the woman out on it.  Basically telling her in Chinese "Oh wow, you're very smart.  You know I'm a foreigner!"  She immediately began profusely apologizing.  I think sometimes they just can't help themselves to blurt out the obvious.  Of course other times, it's just some idiot jackass.  They run the gamut here.

10 years 10 weeks ago
Report Abuse
Report Abuse
10 years 11 weeks ago
 
Posts: 928

Shifu

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

I used to think it was okay being referred as a Lao Wai until I came across nastier and nastier instances where the term started sounding more like a smear than a descriptor.  I've also run across 外国佬 although that isn't as common and is slightly different (a more obvious slur.)  Next time I'll just refer to the offenders as Lao Nei's or 中国佬's.

 

中国佬与外国佬之交,鱼龙混杂。

cooter:

Yep, I've been called wai guo lao before also. Obviously had a derogatory tone to it.

10 years 10 weeks ago
Report Abuse
Report Abuse
10 years 11 weeks ago
 
Posts: 928

Shifu

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

I used to think it was okay being referred as a Lao Wai until I came across nastier and nastier instances where the term started sounding more like a smear than a descriptor.  I've also run across 外国佬 although that isn't as common and is slightly different (a more obvious slur.)  Next time I'll just refer to the offenders as Lao Nei's or 中国佬's.

 

中国佬与外国佬之交,鱼龙混杂。

Report Abuse
10 years 11 weeks ago
 
Posts: 3256

Emperor

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

I saw my colleagues carefully avoiding to use 'laowai' when I'm here. I saw my colleagues feeling embarrassed when others people use it, talking about me and assuming I don't understand Mandarin at all. That's despite my colleagues don't know I don't like that term. I saw people calling me 'laowai' and it seemed a lot of fun for them, the derogatory kind of fun. I don't believe the term is neutral.

Report Abuse
10 years 11 weeks ago
 
Posts: 879

Emperor

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

I find it frustrating that Chinese people perceive everyone non-Chinese as one category of person who can be summarily dismissed as 'laowai'.

 

For most Chinese people, the entirety of human culture and thought other than their own is not worth considering because it's not Chinese. They have neither the ability nor the desire to perceive themselves or their country as a small part of something larger and more amazing. Now that China is a global power, their ego-centrism (and sheer dismissiveness of the extraordinary diversity of human existence) is worrying.

 

As to taking the word 'laowai' personally: No. All it indicates is that the speaker has little perspective of his or China's place in the world, and no idea how limiting and insular his own society is. It makes me extremely glad to be a laowai.

 

Report Abuse
10 years 11 weeks ago
 
Posts: 7178

Emperor

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

It does not bother me if it's directed at me, but it does slightly when directed at my toddler daughter.  She has a Chinese birth certificate for goodness sake.

 

 

Mateusz:

She might be Chinese legally, but being Chinese is a matter of looks. You are Chinese or not Chinese by having a sufficiently "Chinese face", rather than a "foreign face". It's Blut und boden​ here.

10 years 10 weeks ago
Report Abuse

ScotsAlan:

Yeah. I know that. And that is why it annoys me.

 

My wife and I want her brought up here with her extended family. The Laowai tag is the price it seems.

10 years 10 weeks ago
Report Abuse

Mateusz:

It annoys me too and for the same reason.

 

Though, my wife and even several Chinese friends are no longer using "foreigner". I've asked them how it would feel if they were called "foreigner" when traveling or living abroad, and some have been abroad, and noticed, after I asked, that they never were singled out like this. When they think about it, the sense of "othering", sometimes if clicks in their mind. 

 

It's hard because it's cultural, and a habit to break. I'd liken it to American teenagers using "gay" or "faggy" to mean "uncool". They don't necessarily mean to be homophobic, but that was the culture they grew up in, and those words were used that way. Still, people can change that habit if they work at it.

10 years 10 weeks ago
Report Abuse

ScotsAlan:

Yup.

 

Many of my Chinese colleagues have been to the UK as part of their job. I ask them if they would like to be singled out in the street for a "Hello, how are you".

 

But you know, this thread reminded me of an interesting moment with my Chinese wife during the Beijing Olympics. We were in the UK, before we were married, and she innocently asked me why Britain has black athletes competing. She honestly could not understand how they could be called British. "But they must be African", she said. She could not comprehend that they were as British as me.

 

I despair 

 

 

10 years 10 weeks ago
Report Abuse
Report Abuse
10 years 11 weeks ago
 
Posts: 2578

Emperor

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

could not care less .....  don't call me late for dinner

Report Abuse
10 years 11 weeks ago
 
Posts: 194

Governor

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

I could care less. In-fact I often use the word myself to refer to other foreigners. Words only have power if you give them power. Just look what H.P.Lovecraft did with all his nonsensical-yet-meaningful names like Cthulhu, Nyarlathotep, Yogsothoth, etc.. Call me "laowai?!" Hey okay! 

Samsara:

A person's language (and linguistic ability) fundamentally alters the way they perceive things. Common expressions in any language (especially words that categorise) have a lot of power. Our linguistic tools largely determine our analytical ability.

 

Expressions like 'laowai' are both a product of, and instrumental in, Chinese people's insular, dismissive, self-important worldview.

 

 

10 years 10 weeks ago
Report Abuse

Samsara:

Also, the word Cthulhu isn't nonsensical. It comes from 'chthonic'. I love the name Cthulhu because of the depth and darkness it implies even before you get into the Cthulhu mythos.

10 years 10 weeks ago
Report Abuse

Mateusz:

Words like "lawoai" or even "foreigner", to a lesser extent, have power regardless of whether you give them power, because Chinese prevalent culture gives them power.

 

And Samsara is right on with the language shapes thought (Sapir Whorf hypothosis, if you want to look it up online someday). It's a product of Chinese people thinking they are the center of the world (it's not for nothing that "zhong guo" means "middle country"), and ethnic nationalism that means being Chinese (and hence, being the center of the world) is a function of genetics, hence the term "American Born Chinese" is a lot more common than, say, "American Born Czech", or "Chinese Born American". It's why Chinese tourists still call locals "waiguoren".

 

Besides being a product of this thinking, it also propagates the thinking, keeping the cycle going. People absorb the "Us vs. Them" mentality due to constant use of such terminology --> People use "Us vs. Them" terminology --> People absorb the "Us vs. Them" mentality due to constant use of such terminology --> (lather, rinse, repeat)

10 years 10 weeks ago
Report Abuse

MasqueX:

I appreciate both of your highly delectable commentary; thank you for your insights. What I meant to imply was that different people make different conclusions based on spoken word. I don't mind using, nor hearing, the word "老外“ because I don't care what Chinese people think. This is - in their minds - their 'middle kingdom,' their 'center of the universe.' I don't care to trifle with how they choose to view the rest of the world or my place in it. Given the chance I can use the power of scientifically proven fact to run circles around their world views. I suppose a man like me values equations, experiment, and theory more than convoluted human perceptions. Thanks!

10 years 10 weeks ago
Report Abuse
Report Abuse
10 years 11 weeks ago
 
Posts: 290

Governor

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

it doesn't bother me at all. i AM a foreigner so what's the big deal if they prefer to call me that?

DrMonkey:

"I'm Afro-American, people call me 'nigga', what's wrong with that" I know push things ad-absurdum, but that's the spirit ;)

10 years 10 weeks ago
Report Abuse

Samm11:

speaking about afro-americans, i never understood why they have problems with the word nigga when someone else calls them that and at the same time use it between each other.

10 years 10 weeks ago
Report Abuse

Samsara:

Possibly because it's a term of familiarity between each other and a term of vitriolic hatred when used by someone else...?

10 years 10 weeks ago
Report Abuse

Samm11:

yeah and why is it like that? I mean nobody else would use a term of hatred as a term of familiarity.

10 years 10 weeks ago
Report Abuse
Report Abuse
10 years 10 weeks ago
 
Posts: 1084

Shifu

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

laoshi, laopo, laogong, laoba, laoma, laoban, laowai.

 

There's really nothing derogatory about it. 

Report Abuse
10 years 10 weeks ago
 
Posts: 4397

Emperor

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

  Not really, for the most part I find it innocent enough. Doesn't stop me from repeating it under my breath in an Elmer Fudd voice sometimes. At times it gets on my tits a bit when it's being said in that nervous tic way, like a moron naming random things. Then maybe i'll point to the sky and say "Lookee. Airplane" if i'm feeling playful. I think it would bug me if someone used the word to refer to my kid though, but where he's concerned I generally hear him referred to as little brother or big brother, which I like very much. In fact since i've had a kid and now spend a lot of time out in the square or the park, I hear far more people call me uncle than foreigner.

paulmartin:

I get called Laowai Uncle,i don't  mind.And my my son is called Shao Laowai ,but said with kindness so doesn't bother me

10 years 10 weeks ago
Report Abuse
Report Abuse
10 years 10 weeks ago
 
Posts: 4495

Emperor

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

Doesn't bother me, cuz 99% of the time it's just how they learned, I mean they aren't saying anything mean when they say it.  few times when I hear it used in an ugly manner it is still not the word that bugs me, but the person.  anyway, there will probably always be people who dislike other people for being 'different'.  I'm not Freud, but I think that means that they are unhappy with themselves for some reason.  But, I suppose it can go deeper than that. Like if you actually were there when a 'group' did something cruel, inhumane to your 'group' I suppose it would be a human feeling to have feelings of hatred for that 'group'.   I'm thinking Sophie in 'Sophie's Choice' right now.  Yeah, I guess she probably took the easy way out and just hated All Germans instead of trying to analyse how it was just certain individuals who were cruel and the majority were probably just good, common, decent people.

Anyway, like I said 99% of the time when I hear laowei it is really just used as a neutral descriptor.
on a side note- I hear weigouren a whole lot more these days.  Maybe the youth are getting with the times ?

Report Abuse
10 years 10 weeks ago
 
Posts: 915

Shifu

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

I'm not bothered by it. Some of my Chinese friends use the term in a friendly sort of way and it doesn't fuss me. I've heard it once spat at the air by some dickhead who I beat out for a taxi one day, but it didn't bother me then, either. Ha ha. After all, I got the taxi and he didn't.

I've never really heard the term used as an invective meant to injure or insult me. Maybe it has been hurled at me a time or two, but I'm pretty much oblivious to the language when spoken or shouted in my presence.

So, short answer: no.

Report Abuse
10 years 10 weeks ago
 
Posts: 544

Shifu

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

It always bothers me, as does any racial slur, but the amount depends on the situation. When it's some kid who doesn't know better, then I'm bothered by the parents who should have taught him/her better, and the system which teaches Chinese to treat all non-yellow peoples (you can be Asian, or even Chinese, but if you don't have the "Chinese face", you're still not really Chinese. Sucks to be one of the more visible minorities, like Russians, Uygur, or Tibetan, or ethnically mixed children who don't "look Chinese" enough) as "one of them". 

 

It's the same when an adult honestly doesn't know better. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and tell them to knock that shit off. 

 

When it's some douchebag who knows better, the guy who shouts "Hello laowai!" when walking with his friends, since he wants to show off how cool and tough he is, yelling slurs at the "Foreigner", then I get pissed, and let him know.

 

It's pure "Us vs. Them", categorizing people "Us" or "Them" based on looks, and blut und boden ideology of ethnic nationalism. Back in my home country, calling someone "foreigner" because of their looks would be generally condemned, and even referring to people from other countries as "foreigners" is impolite. "Laowai" is just a harsher slur of the term. 

 

On a side note, I have heard the "explanation" of why it was actually an informal term with no negative connotation, the one that goes "Lao" is totally a sign of respect, and only recently had two students admit that it was bullshit, and Chinese don't seriously believe it, but hope that Westerners don't know better.

 

It's a racial pejorative, even if not always intended as such.

Report Abuse
10 years 10 weeks ago
 
Posts: 448

Shifu

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

Never bothered me at all. I have been called my worse many times.

Report Abuse
10 years 10 weeks ago
 
Posts: 205

Governor

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

It bothers me because it reminds me that they don't take me as a person like they are but as something much different from them.  Whenever we think we are much different from others (the us versus them mentality if you will) it becomes difficult to have normal close and meaningful relationships as we can't see past the "them". I've also noticed people here tend to use 国外 (outside China) and 国内 (inside China) a hell of a lot which also bugs me a lot as if China is a totally different case from anywhere else in the world.  Are things really that different or is it just a matter of the way they think?    

Report Abuse
10 years 10 weeks ago
 
Know the answer ?
Please or register to post answer.

Report Abuse

Security Code: * Enter the text diplayed in the box below
Image CAPTCHA
Enter the characters shown in the image.
  • Allowed HTML tags: <a> <em> <strong> <cite> <code> <ul> <ol> <li> <dl> <dt> <dd> <img> <br> <p> <u>
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
  • Textual smileys will be replaced with graphical ones.

More information about formatting options

Forward Question

Answer of the DayMORE >>
A:  "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "S
A: "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "Shenzhen agent can connect you with an employer, who's authorized to hire waigouren ... and can sponsor Z visa." It's not like every 10th person you meet in Shenzhen's hood can sponsor work visa ...  The only way to change from student to labourer visa is just a regular way by: 1. Finding an employer, who'll apply for an Invitation letter; 2. Exit China and apply for Z visa in your home country's Chinese embassy; 3. Enter China in 30-days after Z visa was stamped into your travelling instrument ...As I am aware, you won't be able to switch to Working permit by remaining in China....,so make ready for a return to your home .... -- icnif77