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Q: Another argument with my MIL !!
I really feel ashamed of myself asking such questions ! But I am really confused ! My MIL is asking me to buy a house if I wanna marry her daughter which I can't afford now ! I told her that I will buy a house whenever I can as long as I treat her daughter well . She agreed under one condition that I should deposit The money that I have been saving into her daughters account in order to secure her ! Do you think it's reasonable to do that ?? Thank you very much
You should find another gf. She (your gf) may or not agree with her mother, but her mother won't change. You're looking at a life-in-hell (trust me on this one, I have experience) as long as you live in China. Look for someone who has cut their own umbilical cord and can look at marriage as a true partnership.
according to your last post, and following all the advice you were given by guys in similar situations, you were going to finish this relationship
you are now the family's ATM and if you agree to the demands of this woman, you will continue to be their ATM forever.
Your relationship with your gf will be dominated by her parents and chances are she will listen to them before she listens to you, even after you are married.
you will always be the outsider and foreigner.
things probably won't change after you are married.
Hold firm and don't hand over ANY money, unless you want this to happen
Agree with both replies. In the "west" both the husband and wife jointly buy a house together. If the MIL is like this now just imagine what she will be like when the baby had arrived & she's living with you in the house that you bought!
I had same thing with my Chinese GF. 'I spend, and you work and provide money for me and my daughter (from previous marriage)'.
I was planning to buy an apartment for us, and I asked my GF to get herself a job, so we could save more money, and buy apartment sooner. No avail!
She asked me for 30 000 Rmb for her 19Y old daughter's School. When I asked for the name of the School, she wouldn't gave it to me. I just arrived to China, and worked with F visa, with lowest pay possible.
I work at Schools, and I'm sure I would get good advice on the School's choice from Chinese teachers.
I explained to her Western view on living without job, but she wouldn't change a bit! I compared her way of living to prostitutes in West, but I couldn't get trough. We split 'add-it' after being together for almost 3Y.
icnif77:
It's Chinese culture! She was very nice otherwise, but woman in China seeks husband who can support her. Her parents were convinced, she shouldn't be working! Younger generation is apparently different.
I don't understand logic between 'male kid is priceless, female not that much', and 'man works, and woman 'cleans' apartment whole day (no income)'.
Shouldn't she be working, and me surf the Internet whole day by that logic?
She was divorced, because her husband wanted son, not daughter.
My biggest problem was I could adjust to Chinese ways, but she couldn't barge a bit to the Western 'directions'.
juanisaac:
Good job in splitting up. A marriage is a partnership where both people invest into the relationship.
icnif77:
@juanisaac: Yes, in our world, not in their's. It's not that easy to 'let it go', if you're in love
.
juanisaac:
I've had relationships before with Chinese women. I know it is not easy to let go. But when a MIL gives you an ultimatum "I want to see the cash before I allow my [34 year-old] daughter to marry you"- what can a man do? I had to walk away. One month later a Chinese friend saw my ex dating a rich older guy.
Old gf- "You need to buy me house." She already owned a house.
My new gf- "If you buy a house I will help you buy it. I have some money saved up for that."
I am glad that I walked away from the first relationship.
I understand your MIL a little bit here. Dont rush to judgement because people in this forum are screaming foul. They do that for everything. One positive is that your MIL agrees to approve if you save for a house. This doesnt make them gold diggers it makes them poor farmers that need security. Also the fact that she agreed shows a little bit of thought and understand for your guys happiness, that you want to be together.
I have a suggestion that might work. Why not a joint account? One where money cannot be taken out by one whenever they want? Chinese love to lock up savings. Lots of accounts like that. If you really love her and plan to marry then you should obviously trust her that far. You both would have access and know where the money is going. And not all your money, just the money you plan to save for the house. Your GF and MIL would have something tangible to see its being saved and a little bit of control. And you would know where the money is at all times. If she really just cares about security she should agree to that, and if not.. well then maybe you should run.
sorrel:
you have a point, but according to this poster's previous questions, the gf does not seem to be contributing to their joint future.
The poster is paying for everything now and giving his gf money which she gives to her family.
a show of good-faith in the relationship on the part of the gf would be to contribute financially, however small, and support the poster in his wish to maintain some degree of financial independence from her family.
While some compromises have to be made in a cross-cultural relationship, they should not all be one way as these seem to be.
mike695ca:
@sorrel I agree, and you are correct but from his previous posts he said he was leaving her. This does not seem to be the case. So if hes going to continue to live in this hell, i thought id try to find a common ground for them. Sometimes this forum can be misleading and is massively misinformed when it comes to culture differences.
My point was, if the potential husband was just an ATM then she would forbid any marriage and find an old dude to support them. So no matter how small it does seem to be some concessions on their end. We are in China and her MIL did not choose a foreigner man, so i can understand ( a little bit) why it is hard for them to accept so many changes.
Personally, I think there are many more ways to contribute. I really do not want my wife to work. If she could work and make comparable money to me then fine. But there are many forms of effort, and I would feel absolutely horrible asking the person I care about to go out and work 6 days a week for 5% percent of what I make. That doesnt really sound like a fair and equal relationship to me either.
Sinobear:
Joint accounts don't exist unless they're business accounts.
mike695ca:
@sinobear, please see below. iwolf seems to have. And I cant say for certain you are 100% incorrect as I havent done it personally, I have a close friend that did. Also got a credit card because it was a joint account.
I had an ex that had a joint account with her dad, for long term savings and stocks. They both had control. Again not a business account. But granted. I have not gone myself. So I will not speak with certainty. I hope you are doing the same.
Sinobear:
And who's "screaming foul"? Basic relationship dynamics...prospective MIL wants money, gf (apparently) doesn't/won't stand up for herself. Solution: find a girl with balls (pardon the vernacular).
My wife and I (married six years) have tried various banks in various cities to get a joint account. Basically, we've only been left with the option of getting two cards, one card one bankbook...we've been told to open a business account that requires two signatures (which is not what we wanted) for withdrawals.
mike695ca:
Well you are for one. Your first sentence in your post was to find another gf.
People like you generally dont give a shit about your partner. This is why you would never subject yourself to the horrible disrespect of bowing to the requests of her family! You dont care one little bit, about the shame( no matter how stupid) her parents get when her family and neighbours and friends ask about the wedding. Why? because you could careless about another culture except your own. But thats not really true, your just lazy, you can barely get by right now, so to save 10 000 to give away! appalling! And being forced to buy a house! You mean the very basic form of security in pretty much every country around the world?? How dare they! I dont beleive his MIL was asking for a BMW or alot of money, and accepted him just saving for a house. What part of that is not reasonable to you? Yet he should find a woman with balls!
Do you know what your really saying? You are just useless and selfish , that truly only cares about yourself. You will only accept a girl who ( you like to think is as western as possible) is so desperate that she will abandon her family and culture and everything that she was raised believing so that your life will be easier.
So you go around claiming all chinese women, and all women period are gold digging whores.
mike695ca:
damn you edited, i take the alone part back....... jesus your already married? why are you so bitter?
mike695ca:
Im curious, did your give her parents anything? And how much did they originally ask you for?
Sinobear:
@mike695ca: my MIL asked for your head on a platter. You're still alive and I'm still married. Isn't life grand!
mike695ca:
Tell your MIL that if i can keep my head i will take her daughter from you, treat her like a real man should and take the both of them out of poverty. Im sure shell agree..
patrickf:
So Mike, if I understand right, Sinobear's wife should go find a richer man to get her and her family out of poverty? Isn't that Gold Digging? How do you know how Sinobear treat his wife? I can assure you that if you would propose that to my GF (which is chinese) she would spit in your face for thinking that you can buy her with money like a prostitute. Even her mom would spit in your face.
Not all Chinese family has that "money" culture so don't put the blame on the culture. My MIL want me to marry her daughter and she never asked me to buy anything or save money to her "daughter's account" either.
PS: they are farmers and far from being rich but they still have enough dignity not to beg for money and because of that you can be sure I will take good care of them. One of the neighbors told the MIL if it was her, she would ask 400 000 rmb to marry her daughter and my MIL told her my daughter is not for sale. :-)
donnie3857:
I've never found the need for a joint account in China. I just give my password to my wife.
I actually have 4 bank accounts. One of them is not joint. (password known only to me) because I use it to transfer between international accounts.
mike695ca:
@donnie, Thats completely different, you trust your wife! The OP doesnt seem to be in that boat.
I have been there. Firstly, don't get into an argument with the MIL. You can't win. I kept everyone happy by opening a joint account. The family is happy and no one can withdraw without your signature and passport. It is a passbook account only. Win/Win.
Good answer Mike. The OP needs to show some form of commitment to the family. After all, in China, you marry the family, not just the woman .
mike695ca:
Agreed. I dont like that foreigners sometimes are close minded about chinese culture. Not everyone is a horrible gold- digger. There really is some culture at play here. Its about finding a happy balance.
ScotsAlan:
I wonder if there is a website for Chinese Mother in Laws? Where they rant and complain about how mean and non understanding their foreign son in laws are 
.
Eg:
"I paid a fortune to teach my daughter to speak English, and now she has gone off with a foreign man who has no respect for our culture. What can I do? "
Or:
" My daughter's foreign husband has forbidden me from seeing my grandchild. Take my advice, keep your daughters away from foreign men. They have no filial piety !!! "
Lol. Just a thought
Not being married, and with no intention to, I can only make my opinion from said point of view...
If you're looking to marry the girl anyway, it would make sense. After all, you're intending to buy a house at some point, right? So, the logical thing would be to put some money aside for it now... and then regularly with each pay.
The only real question comes down to - in what account. If you can guarantee that the money cannot be taken out again without a double signature and ID check (yours and hers together), then that would be wise!
Of course, this all presumes that she (both gf and MIL are 'serious' about the whole marriage thing... and not, as suggested above, a whole lot of gold-digging. Security is fine.. getting much more out of you than is reasonable is not!
Also remember - MIL is also likely to want more cash from you directly... I'd avoid that entirely!!!
AND... I'd also suggest you have at least 2 bank accounts - one mutual, one for yourself. And GF has the same.Agree that what's in your account can be spent on whatever you like! No questions asked!!! It is, in fact, yours - not just another place for your gf's money to be kept for when she wants it.
Sinobear:
And, what if he doesn't want to buy an apartment in China (sorry, I should say "70 year lease").
What does the girl herself bring to the table? Virgin? Wealthy family? Solid connections and "face"?
Let's see what the OP thinks of all our stoic advice.
If you want to buy a house, do it before you get married for legal reasons. If you don't want to buy a house, explain this to your girlfriend's mother. Explain that you don't have money for a house yet. If it doesn't sink through, just move on. I don't like this aspect of "culture."
In the end, I did not have to give anyone a dime for my wife. I did not have to give her a dime, and I didn't have to buy us a house. If you want that "nagging" feeling that she may have married you for money/security in the back of your head, it's your choice.
But personally, if she doesn't understand that you don't have the money for it, then I'd look for a woman willing to weather the storms with you. They're rare, but they're worth it.
1. No one in their right mind should "buy" any piece of real estate in China, unless you really have money to burn.
2. MIL wanting money or posing any sort of condition in exchange for daughter's hand is the Get The Fuck Out trigger. I wouldn't even try to discuss. The mere mention of this type of request without any hint of shame is proof you are in for a life around two centuries backwards of mentality should you make the mistake of marrying your partner. Get the fuck away from this. This isn't worth it.
Definitely a huge red flag.
I think it's really tacky these western guys let themselves deal with all this native sillyness.
Put it in terms an ignorant person who judges everything by money can understand. US GDP (or wherever you are from) is $52,000 per capita, China's is $6,500.
Tell her you don't want her $6,500 a year values to be a part of your life!
hahaha I know that sounds pretty ludicrous and it would take some real balls to pull that off...but honestly why do you have to be enlightened while she is trying to extort you? Speak to her as ignorantly as she speaks to you. Maybe you'd earn some respect from the MIL if you stood up to her...let her know you see her as some lame peasant that needs to adapt to YOU not vice versa.
My GFs mom tried that with us. Said I have to buy a house. I told my my GF to let her mother know that I will do everything to provide I good life, but that I dont have the money for a house right now, and no matter what, my parent weren't going to buy me one, and that its not how we do things, so I wouldn't even ask. It was dropped and never mentioned again.
Now, since yall are all talking about joint accounts. I got a separate account under my name, and gave her the card. I keep living expenses in my normal account and deposit the rest into the new account. So in a sense, she has control of the savings money, but if I wanted to cancel that card, I could... and she could also withdrawl all thje money and not tell me. It would be more of a showing of trust i guess if we did it for that reason. We never thought of it like that though. I am just bad at saving, she is good...
mike695ca:
That all sounds perfectly reasonable! Plus with the added bonus ( especially for your girl) that your MIL doesnt hate you.
I was strongly suggested to buy a flat... I said no, and I gave my reasons :
* Flats are severely overvalued here. For the same price of a poorly designed flat in a shitty area, I get a nice house with a small garden in a ok suburb of many Western countries.
* If I buy a flat here, due to the heavy investment, that would mean we can not move out of China for 5 to 10 years. We would have to send our kids to a local public school, international schools are too expensive for us. My wife, her parents share my views on the education system here : it sucks and grind the souls of the youth.
* Why we would work like donkeys to pay for a shitty flat in a shitty and polluted area, and the international school for my kids... if I can have a nice house and okay schools/environment with my current income if we move abroad ?!
* Living with neighbours for whom I will be forever "One of those people from outside", "The outsider", "Not a Chinese", and that will give not very good examples of civil behaviour to my kids.
So, I promised to buy a house in a couple of years, after we moved abroad. We are saving for this. My wife some of our savings on an account at her name. And everybody was happy again. My in-laws are very reasonable, the least greedy people and they listen to reasonable arguments. I'm lucky, it seems ?
When I first came to China, I was flat out broke. I had $200.00 in my pocket and had to borrow some money from foreign buddies before I got paid my meager salary of 4500 RMB.
In the small city I am in, 8 years back that salary was considered pretty good. I met my wife and we loved each other for who we were and not our finances. But it was tradition to buy a house, car and give money for taking their daughter. I didn't really give much and they paid for the wedding because they wanted it in her small village (they made it back from red envelopes). We were married about three years ago.
I couldn't afford the house and all that jazz but they still accepted me.
Fast forward to today (and a career change), I am buying a few real estate items (one being in China) and even helped to loan 100 000 RMB so my brother in law could buy a house too (parents didn't have enough money, needed it for the bank loan). So you tell those MILs that maybe you can't afford it but have faith and to bet on you because you are winning horse and good investment!
She is just afraid you turn out to be one of those lazy guys that will marry her daughter and then take off without having contributed anything to their future. Older Chinese don't really believe in divorce and remarrying... and even if the had to... they lose a ton of face. This is her way of securing her family's investment on your shoulders. Getting married in China is sort of like a business deal... you need to have some bargaining chips.
You can't be serious? If you give your gf that money it will be in you MIL's account in no time. You will never see it again. I guarantee it. You're not married and you're a foreigner. What recourse do you have? If you gave a stranger the money it is the same thing. You are talking about giving your money away. I'm sure they are well aware of this and talk about 'love', but they are just using guilt to grab your cash.
And, they will ask for more. That money is just 'security' for a house. Once you give money you are an ATM. Stop being an ATM. Comprende?
Geez, that would be the only signal I would need to tell me to get the hell out of that relationship. There are a lot of scams involving foreigners in China.
So most people have an issue with the financial aspect of the culture.
But many seem to want a bit of cake from the Chinese cultural bakery.
I'm so lucky. I don't have any of these crazy problems.
Thank you all for the answers and suggestions . BTW I don't think opening a joint account is a good idea coz the girl is not contributing . She makes 3000 RMB / month and you know she barely feeds herself ! I don't mind how much she makes ! What made me angry is that We have been together 3 years and I feel like they don't trust me when asking me that way ! I told my GF to tell her mother that I am not able to do what she wants so she has to make a decision ! She started crying and I feel so sorry for her !
patrickf:
Dont be tricked by the crying. If you dont want to buy a house or cannot afford it then just dont buy it and tell them you will buy one whenever you can. LIke alot of people said, real estate market is overvalued big time and especially in big city and I am not even talking about the shitty quality. Every time I talk about the 70 year lease to a chinese he say "it doesnt matter after 10-20 years the house is not good anymore" lol even they know how shitty the construction is but it doesnt stop them from buying a house because this is the only thing they know in terms of "investment".
amjed:
She said as her mother is so demanding and hard to please so let's trick her that you deposit something like 200000 RMB into my account and the next day I will transfer it back to yours !!! It doesnet make any sence to me and my answer is just one and will never change : listen to your mommy and leave me alone !!!
patrickf:
that is funny... transfer money to my account and I will transfer back..... I would not trust that AT ALL lol... honestly, go find another girl friend because I fear you will never be anything else other than an ATM machine to this family.
Shining_brow:
BTW - 3000 is standard pay for most Chinese (or even less).
If she's living with you, then she's not 'barely able to feed herself'... I know, cos I spend about that for myself (not including rent, which fortunately for me, isn't that much more). And trust me, I can buy expensive stuff!!! If she's living with you now, then 3K is plenty!!! (put it another way - that's 100RMB/DAY!)
Don't do it man. I don't think your MIL's demand is unreasonable. I am Canadian, I don't know your nationality, but in every part of the world money is king. It just depends on how much you have and how we use it. I've been in China a long time and watched mixed marriages come and go. I am probably one of the few who didn't have to show my in laws the money. In the end it is up to you how you and your girl do this, but I really think it is better if you did not stay in this relationship because one side sees Money as a prerequisite.
"please so let's trick her that you deposit something like 200000 RMB into my account and the next day I will transfer it back to yours"
Then you'll never see her or the money again. My wife never did any of this shit.
My first Chinese girlfriend tried this, and you know what I did? I made a big show of getting ready to send her money, then I refused to do it at the last minute. I pretended that I didn't know how to give her the money. That ended our relationship really quick. I also told her I found someone else and blocked her on all of my social networking sites. It's really weird because a quick glance of her bank account (don't ask) showed large transactions in excess of ~737k RMB per 3 days.
My advice, as always, is to have fun with these girls, and string them along... and then dump their asses at the last minute. Or you could just walk out now. Walk. Out.
The last thing you'll EVER want to do is marry her. You'll only regret it. It seems like you're wasting three years, and you might not get the chance to find a great girl again, right? WRONG. She's NOT a great girl, and she isn't worth your time. You'll find better if you stop being DESPERATE.
Listen to the people here. Just walk out and get a new girl. I know one American who gave his gf some money to increase her bank account so she could get a visa to the USA. The girl then took that money and gave it to her mother as a "loan." She did not even ask the guy first.
