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Q: Are Chinese people the living proof that the saying "materialism cannot provide happiness" is true?

Materialism has been the ruling dogma within the Chinese society for the last 60 years or so. Spiritualism and Religions have been outlawed under Mao only to come back recently under the watchful eye of the CCP.

 

Today more Chinese have access to material wealth, a number of them can afford status items (cars, smartphones, good clothing, ...) yet the people don't seem happy in China, even the wealthy and powerful rarely smile unless they are mocking someone else, they seem very unsatisfied with their life.

 

I am not religious but spiritual, an optimistic and cheerful person by nature. A number of Chinese acquaintances asked me through the years what's my secret to be so happy, I told them that (although I make good money) my life doesn't revolve solely around material wealth, that I have hobbies, interests, other than earning and spending money.

 

I have changed a small number of Chinese people, my other half is one of them, and some close friends, now they seem more happy than when we first met, they have also become much more interesting people to spend time and chat with.

 

Do you think that Chinese are what they are (grumpy, frustrated, unsatisfied) because their entire life is about running after material wealth?

8 years 43 weeks ago in  General  - China

 
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Yes, I do. A lot of them are bored with trying to get rich and a lot of them are bored with BEING rich lol. I am seeing a lot of Chinese start to take more cues from the West on how to spend recreational time.

 

Some rich Chinese people are now questioning the point of having so much money and doing with Western people do. Get back in touch with nature and out door stuff. I see more Chinese doing hikes, mountain climbing and camping now than ever.

 

Eight years ago... camping didn't even exist. More mountain bikes, more roller bladers, more parents getting their kids into things other than training schools, piano lessons and swimming classes.

 

So they are learning that wealth do not equal happiness. Wealth can equal freedom but if you waste that freedom... then obviously still won't be happy right?

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8 years 43 weeks ago
 
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I'm the same as you. I'm not in the least bit religious, but at the age of 21 I started reading Rousseau and Tolstoy. Prior to this I was massively indifferent to learning and knowledge, having grown up in New Zealand. Kiwis are pretty bad when it comes to money, at my family reunions it's all about who bought which house for how much and how the level of car imports into the country has dropped since certain new policies were released by the ministry of transport, but the Chinese still blow them well and truly out of the water.

 

Anyhow, I developed an interest in the history of western and Indian philosophy from the two writers I mentioned above and have since found that the greatest satisfactions I get in my life have come from an encounter with a profound idea.

 

I spent a lot of time since that time reading everything I could get my hands on to get a sense of what it means to be cultured and cultivated.

 

I heard a piece of wisdom from the most unlikely source of all possible (and this is likely to irk my good friend scotsalan). Michael Savage had a call from a rabbi and this rabbi stated that according to his interpretation of the Pentateuch life is given to us by god as an opportunity to cultivate our souls and that it's our only chance. If we fail to cultivate ourselves, we're doomed to live out eternity as the empty shell we were when we died.

 

I think of this as a nice allegory because when I combine the satisfaction I get from an achievement or an encounter with the sublime or something of intense profundity it makes me feel like I'm genuinely wealthy.

 

If I had to give up my experiences for a rolls royce or a golden trinket of some sort, I'd most certainly decline the opportunity. My grandmother's sister was born in the mid-twenties, she grew up during the depression and nearly died from tuberculosis in her mid-teens. She lost a lung and a kidney. She later became a chartered accountant, never married and accumulated a fortune. She only ever visited Singapore in her lifetime and was taken to England where she saw Stonehenge and her comment was that the one in Masterton in the Wairarapa was better.

 

Life is a gift and we should soak up its wonder. Donald Trump is a billionaire. That clearly means it's got nothing to do with intellect or virtue. You can't take the toys with you when you cark it.

ambivalentmace:

i have met Michael Savage twice in my life, what a great mind, miss his shows since i live in the valley of the shadow of death now.

8 years 43 weeks ago
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laowaigentleman:

Wow! For real! I don't agree with his politics at all, but I respect him for his sincerity and think he's the real deal when it comes to anything pertaining to culture and literature.

He's a man I could spend the afternoon listening to. I remember about 3 years ago he wanted to introduce differing topics, eg: Monday was to be discussion of literature and he opened with illusions and allusion. He received few callers and most of them wanted to talk politics. I felt a bit sorry for him the day I listened to that. He tried to implement it too abruptly and he maybe didn't check out his audience well enough.

 

How did you two get on?

8 years 43 weeks ago
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8 years 43 weeks ago
 
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Yes, I do. A lot of them are bored with trying to get rich and a lot of them are bored with BEING rich lol. I am seeing a lot of Chinese start to take more cues from the West on how to spend recreational time.

 

Some rich Chinese people are now questioning the point of having so much money and doing with Western people do. Get back in touch with nature and out door stuff. I see more Chinese doing hikes, mountain climbing and camping now than ever.

 

Eight years ago... camping didn't even exist. More mountain bikes, more roller bladers, more parents getting their kids into things other than training schools, piano lessons and swimming classes.

 

So they are learning that wealth do not equal happiness. Wealth can equal freedom but if you waste that freedom... then obviously still won't be happy right?

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8 years 43 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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Hey, I remember I said something here. Admin if you could explain why would you delete comments without notice? Vicky is a clear example of Chinese approach towards life. Delete that again you......! Is Vicky a user here ? No.

 

Is it the way you want to remind me that I am in China?

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8 years 43 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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My parents always taught me that being rich doesn't guarantee happiness but being broke will almost certainly make you miserable and stressed.

 

I think I saw that for the US at least income and happiness trend up together until about $70K/yr. So theres a level of income/material success that's objectively "good enough". You don't have to drive a brand new mercedes to be happy, but if you need to drive and can't afford a reliable car you're going to be stressed all the time about the cost of repairing your 1994 Ford Taurus with 300K miles and a bad everything. 

 

Same as housing...you don't need a huge beautiful house to be happy, but if you're packing 6 or 7 people into a tiny box you'll have all this extra stress.

 

I TOTALLY get why the chinese obsess about money, because the way most people have no choice but to live in here is disgraceful. People in their 20s piling 8 deep into old tiny apartments. Living out in the countryside in filthy conditions getting bullied by shithead provincial bumpkins. It sucks. Wealthy here doesn't just mean excellent, it means not completely shitty and stressful.

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Shifu

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too big gap between poor and rich.

The poor think the rich live happy but also not true.

 

Since I am in china i changed also quite a bit regarding money. I earn alot but i am not able to buy something, so i save a lot. I have a lot of money now but still refuse to buy expensive food.

A beer for 40 kuai? nope - at home a beer for 4 euro? sure i only live once.

In Germany I earned not even half but were happier and willing to spend more money - whats wrong here

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8 years 43 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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It is interesting that you posted this. I just spent the past week talking to my classes about the difference between "wealthy" and "rich". It was amazing to see the light bulbs pop on above their heads. Kids now days may seem to aspire to be wealthy. But, they do have a keen understanding that happiness is very important.

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I guess people should first learn to be happy with themselves. Material wealth in itself won't make people automatically happy. if you depend on material wealth for your happiness you won't ever be satisfied.

 

"oh, my life would be complete, and I'd be happy if only I had an apartment!" you'd be happy with the apartment for some months before it'd switch to "oh, my life would be complete, and I'd be happy if only I had a house!" and so on. 

 

As for the question if Chinese people are grumpy because they chase material wealth, I'd say yes and no.

 

First, material wealth is a legitimate goal for some people, Chinese and otherwise. But at the same time, I think that in China today wealth is the "proper" goal. Meaning that's what society thinks is good. And we all know that the majority in China are afraid to stand out, so due to societal pressures  they pursue wealth instead of what they *really* want from their life and it is this which leads to frustration.

 

Second, money in it self isn't what people want, it's what you can do with money. I think a lot of wealthy Chinese (from my own experience) don't really have any idea on how to spend money. So instead of buying the stuff or experiences they want, or have dreamt of, they just go through the motion so to speak. "Oh, rich people have Rolex watches, and drive Porsches, so I bought a Rolex and a Porsche".

 

Third, from 'back West, most of the entrepreneurs and businesspeople I know are either in love with the industry they work in (one person I know is passionate about car tires, and became very rich through a tire chain), or are in love with the entrepreneurial process, creating something, building it up, and that's what drives them (later often through VC investing). And I generally don't see this as much in China.

 

Of course, there are wealthy people here who are passionate for what they do, and there are people who are boring and square back home. But the numbers, in my own experience, seem to be skewed in China towards the latter. If you don't have a passion for what you do, or if you don't have any "reason" to become rich, then I can understand how that would lead rich people to be miserable. 

Eorthisio:

I agree. About your second point. I think it's partly because China doesn't offer many worthy opportunities for the wealthy ones to spend their money. I mean in comparison to other countries.

 

In the West we have countless elite clubs where rich old men can compare themselves with each others using other measures than wealth, like by doing charity, "look at me I am a good guy", in China very few of these clubs exist, I know that the Lions made it recently and only in Guangdong, not even in Shanghai or Beijing.

 

In the West rich people can spend their money on high quality collector items, in China the collector items for sale at auctions are of poor quality and the price of 95% brand name (or artist name).

 

In the Gulf countries rich people spend their money to build Mosques for the people without expecting profit from it, in Mainland China there is no spirituality or religion left, in slightly more religious Hong Kong the city-state's richest man Li Ka-shing recently built a temple for the people and gave it away to some Buddhist organization.

 

Let alone entertainment, in China there is nowhere for the rich to sail their yachts and they can't fly their jets since the airspace and the territorial sea both belong to the PLA.

 

These are only a few examples of how rich people could but can't spend their wealth in meaningful or fun ways in China.

8 years 43 weeks ago
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Shifu

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Chinese largely exemplify why people who lack any kind of introspection, self-awareness and individuality can't find true happiness. When a person's life is completely devoted to fulfilling superficial goals such as the pursuit of material goods and social status, that person loses connection with his own psyche - think Patrick Bateman in American Psycho. On the outside he has everything but he is actually just a robot with nothing inside. I feel a lot of Chinese are similar (without being serial killers like in the movie). Once people realize that after buying an expensive house and a car they still don't feel any fulfillment and society has destroyed any capacity for independent thinking, they turn to hedonistic pleasures like KTV girls and excessive drinking. Or they just keep trying to 1 up each other by buying nicer things and scratching that itch that will never go away with an insatiable desire for more just like a drug addict. 

 

Last week I sat for two hours in a little known but gorgeous park that contains two museums and hundreds of outdoor sculptures. It is typically empty because Chinese don't want to pay for the ticket to get in. I sat on a bench listening to Pachelbel's Canon in D and got lost in my own head wrestling with big questions about my life and basically coming to peace with myself a little more than I was before. Have I found true happiness? Of course not, but I have the capacity to think in a way that I think I could be truly happy with myself some day if I make the right life choices. Most Chinese couldn't think past "why did I pay 30 rmb to go to this park when another park is free" or "my computer only costs 4,000 yuan but his computer costs 10,000 yuan so I want a new one". Yea, not going to be really happy thinking that way. 

Eorthisio:

Haha, about the park ticket, my garden has an indoor swimming pool quite big and ideal for length swimming that used to be free (outdoor still is for residents), it was always packed, children running around and falling down on the wet floor then crying, grandparents staring at the foreigner (me), girls getting in my way to catch my attention when I was swimming but in fact only annoying so I usually told them to f-off, insecure men trying to keep up with me when I was swimming only to be left behind, well anyway, it was full of worthless people.

 

A few months ago the management decided to make it 15 yuan per month, you pay per year and only residents who paid would have an electronic card to get in, and there is a security guard to enforce the one person per card rule.

 

All the worthless folks are gone, they don't want to pay 15 yuan for it, now there is me, a few regular guys and girls and 1 other foreigner, that's about it. And it is so quiet, those people come here to swim, not to show off.

8 years 43 weeks ago
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dongbeiren:

This park is 30 rmb to get into once and 60 if you want to get access to the 2 museums - they are really nice and you could hear a pin drop inside. The one with the beautiful African art was so empty that the person working in there followed us around probably to make sure we didn't steal anything or maybe she was just excited someone actually came in. That's where I go when I want to get away because the only people willing to pay 60 to get in will not behave like swine and actually appreciate some real art and culture (in a city of 7 million people that's about the only place to find any). 

8 years 43 weeks ago
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For a while, their life goals have been:

1) Get filthy rich

2) 

 

 

 

 

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totally agree with the OP's sentiment. just to chime in, i'd call attention to the fact that people will always have matertial needs and material wants. the reason wealth chasing has beena massive addiction in this society, is because of all the restrictions and oppression. profit chasing, workaholism and other forms of financial enrichment can become socially acceptable, monotonous addictions. people will seek whatever escapism available to them: drugs, online scamming, gaming, even childbearing can be an escape. it's a sign of a disfunctional society that so many people resort to escapism.

China's dark past still looms large, but some are feeling more freedom, and diversifying their pastimes.

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