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Q: Are marriages between Chinese nationals and foreigners prone to divorce?

I've been best man twice in my time here, both to mixed couples, and both have now divorced. My own marriage has been tested but I'm quietly confident we can make it, all it takes is the will to take the rough with the smooth, the care to nurture our affection for each other when it wilts, and for her to shut the f*** up once in a while. But who knows, maybe we'll end up another sad statistic. What are the odds for mixed couples?

8 years 9 weeks ago in  General  - China

 
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Being on my second marriage, this one lasting eight years thus far, and with all the trials and tribulations on both my and my wife's part thus far, I'd ask anyone thinking of marrying the following questions: (in no particular order)

1. Is this only a marriage of convenience?

2. Is sex the only thing you both have in common?

3. What do you actually have in common?

4. Can you, and do you, actually and effectively communicate?

5. Are you from different class backgrounds? It's easy to see yourself as a white knight "rescuing" your damsel in distress but that will just lead you to becoming an ATM for her and her family.

6. Do you actually respect her and her family (you are, after all, marrying into her family and thus you will have to deal with everyone in her family at some point).

7. Are you equals intellectually? Same interests, hobbies, reading habits, educational levels? If not, arguments are a given.

8. What are your ambitions for the future? Are they mutual? Remain in China or go back to your homeland or a third country?

9. What is your age difference? I've heard so many people say (both Chinese and non-Chinese that "Age doesn't matter" but it does.

10. Do you equate language ability with intelligence? Again, I've heard many non-Chinese boast the intelligence of their girlfriend based on her English ability alone, whilst demeaning extremely intelligent women who could not speak any English.

11. What economic implications are brought to the table? Do you or your prospective partner have a potentially crippling debt burden? As with point #6, are you ready, willing and able to share your resources (and likewise, your partner) should a family emergency occur?

12. Take a good look at your partner now, and then look at his/her parents. Can you imagine still being with this person when they reach their parents' age?

13. What is the smallest habit, trait or peculiarity that you are uncomfortable with? Can you actually live with that for the next 'x' number of years?

14. How long have you known each other? Is it lust, love, an obsession, a possession, an infatuation or a symbiotic relationship? Have you seen them when they are depressed, angry, drunk, bored, listless, etc.?

15. Would you consider him//her to be your friend if you weren't romantically linked?

16. Speaking of friends, do you honestly like his/her friends? They know him/her better than you and they are his/her friends for a reason.

17. Is there a psychological need (or worse, dependence) that you are fulfilling for him/her or that he/she is fulfilling for you? Are you trying to fix them or they you?

18. What about the issue of children? Are you both on the same wavelength?

19. Can you both effectively function if apart (without daily communication) for a week or two?

20. Do you already share the burden of household chores? Can you both cook and clean and shop and be responsible for financial responsibilities?

21. How open and honest have you both been regarding your past marriages/relationships? Can you really trust each other?

22. You really must be bored to read this far, can you really trust an anonymous person to give you advice on such a serious issue on a disreputable forum like this?

23. Is marriage really necessary? It's really like how China views any contractual agreement, it's a starting point for negotiation, not the culmination of previous talks. Friends with benefits, a temporary arrangement, companions, common-law partners...all can be alternatives if both parties can come to mutually agreeable terms.

24. Are both parties willing to sign a pre-nuptial agreement? If it ends someday, are you willing to part with what you've brought into the marriage?

25. Religion and beliefs. Are yours and his/hers compatible?

26. Finally, your legacy. What is it that you feel most important to 'leave your mark upon this world'? You eat, drink, defecate, expectorate and (attempt to) procreate just because it "feels right". Marriage, depending on your point-of-view and upbringing, should not be a spur-of-the-moment decision based on feelings, but at the  very least, a well-thought-out pragmatic decision based on the points above.

 

Sorry, no potato for the long post.

 

mArtiAn:

1. Is this only a marriage of convenience? (Nothing convenient about it, she's an enormous pain in the arse). 2. Is sex the only thing you both have in common? (Nope, we're completely different sexes. Yey, another point to us!). 3. What do you actually have in common? (We both hate her mother). So far so good but I've got to go and watch the kids, or cook, or tidy or something, I'm not sure, it's all just a blur these days. Nice list though. Cheers.

8 years 9 weeks ago
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philbravery:

very well said

8 years 9 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

Sinobear: Your line of questioning is biased. How many non-intercultural couples get asked these questions, do you think? Love cannot be defined, and it's all good.

8 years 9 weeks ago
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Sinobear:

@coinarrrrrrgh: I believe that "love" is transient and that humans are not meant to be in monogamous relationships. I just think that a nice, neat, checklist is a good reality check for those who are thinking with their hormones instead of their brains.

8 years 9 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

how can a checklist you would never present to a non-intercultural couple be referred to as "thinking with brains"? My partner has ancestors from a different continent, so suddenly my relationship warrants more scrutiny than white-on-white? I'll tell you what I say to every nutter to treats us differently: I don't give a fuck what kind of interracial porn you(r boyriend) may be watching, but you either treat us normally as fellow humans, or you shut your dirty pie hole.

8 years 9 weeks ago
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Sinobear:

@coin: whoa, whoa, whoa! This checklist could be used for anyone thinking of getting married! Put down the Jagermeister and take a gander at point #22!

8 years 9 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

point 22 assumes i actually read it. you just shot yourself in the foot. kudos for calling people who read your dribble pathetic. the one who wrote it trumps them all.

8 years 9 weeks ago
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cub:

come on sino, we all are humans remember? And with different ages characteristics cultures back grounds thoughts likes and dislikes wants needs thats what makes us unique and imperfect! Sometimes a couples imperfections after marriage after working them out supporting each other through good AND bad to become a perfect match, and yes its not easy it takes work

8 years 9 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

Sino, yes love as we define it is a story we tell ourselves, like Santa. In fact relationships are determined by willpower, adaptability and a number of factors beyond our control. But if you get all cynical about things, you let your situation get the better of you. in 2011 i had lost 30,000 euros, nearly everything i had, in a bad marriage. i didn't sit in a bar moping, and 2 years later my first son was born. it wasn't because i met the perfect woman, it was because i adapted and stayed determined. life gave me lemons, so i made lemonade. my lady is pretty awesome, but our differences would easily have driven unmotivated couples apart. our main shared traits are determination and adaptability. i came to Germany alone in September, set up the business with limited speaking skills and no friends nearby. she has been in Germany almost 2 months, we have few family or friends visiting, but she is doing great. Life is chaos, so if you want to rely on someone, you must first rely on yourself.

8 years 9 weeks ago
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silverbutton1:

"5. Are you from different class backgrounds? It's easy to see yourself as a white knight "rescuing" your damsel in distress but that will just lead you to becoming an ATM for her and her family."

 
seen this numerous times throughout SE Asia. See you as a walking ATM machine to use as they please. Big warning sign on this one. If you lose your job, and cant find another one paying as well in a certain time frame, she will probably leave you. Same goes if you get sick, dont expect her to stick around,

8 years 9 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

I'm not married - and probably never will be* - but I don't see anything particularly wrong with the checklist  (other than the first basic assumption - what are you getting married for? It was down towards the end, but should actually be #1).

 

And, unlike Coin, I don't see any difference between cultures. For me, yes, all those questions need to be asked regardless of the background etc of the people involved (yes, BOTH of them!)

 

 

(* - because I ask questions like these, and the answers don't suggest 'yes, this is a good idea!")

8 years 9 weeks ago
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8 years 9 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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yea, if she just shut up ...  when it's really not necessary to open that mouth... Smile

I am lazy and without responsibility. she is my wife, so i have to be gentleman and say nothing bad Smile

dunno, didn't hear about divorced mixed couples , maybe because I do not meet many people here.

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8 years 9 weeks ago
 
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we have been married 10 years in may
i know of 3 other couples that married after us that are now over in a 5 year average

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8 years 9 weeks ago
 
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Being on my second marriage, this one lasting eight years thus far, and with all the trials and tribulations on both my and my wife's part thus far, I'd ask anyone thinking of marrying the following questions: (in no particular order)

1. Is this only a marriage of convenience?

2. Is sex the only thing you both have in common?

3. What do you actually have in common?

4. Can you, and do you, actually and effectively communicate?

5. Are you from different class backgrounds? It's easy to see yourself as a white knight "rescuing" your damsel in distress but that will just lead you to becoming an ATM for her and her family.

6. Do you actually respect her and her family (you are, after all, marrying into her family and thus you will have to deal with everyone in her family at some point).

7. Are you equals intellectually? Same interests, hobbies, reading habits, educational levels? If not, arguments are a given.

8. What are your ambitions for the future? Are they mutual? Remain in China or go back to your homeland or a third country?

9. What is your age difference? I've heard so many people say (both Chinese and non-Chinese that "Age doesn't matter" but it does.

10. Do you equate language ability with intelligence? Again, I've heard many non-Chinese boast the intelligence of their girlfriend based on her English ability alone, whilst demeaning extremely intelligent women who could not speak any English.

11. What economic implications are brought to the table? Do you or your prospective partner have a potentially crippling debt burden? As with point #6, are you ready, willing and able to share your resources (and likewise, your partner) should a family emergency occur?

12. Take a good look at your partner now, and then look at his/her parents. Can you imagine still being with this person when they reach their parents' age?

13. What is the smallest habit, trait or peculiarity that you are uncomfortable with? Can you actually live with that for the next 'x' number of years?

14. How long have you known each other? Is it lust, love, an obsession, a possession, an infatuation or a symbiotic relationship? Have you seen them when they are depressed, angry, drunk, bored, listless, etc.?

15. Would you consider him//her to be your friend if you weren't romantically linked?

16. Speaking of friends, do you honestly like his/her friends? They know him/her better than you and they are his/her friends for a reason.

17. Is there a psychological need (or worse, dependence) that you are fulfilling for him/her or that he/she is fulfilling for you? Are you trying to fix them or they you?

18. What about the issue of children? Are you both on the same wavelength?

19. Can you both effectively function if apart (without daily communication) for a week or two?

20. Do you already share the burden of household chores? Can you both cook and clean and shop and be responsible for financial responsibilities?

21. How open and honest have you both been regarding your past marriages/relationships? Can you really trust each other?

22. You really must be bored to read this far, can you really trust an anonymous person to give you advice on such a serious issue on a disreputable forum like this?

23. Is marriage really necessary? It's really like how China views any contractual agreement, it's a starting point for negotiation, not the culmination of previous talks. Friends with benefits, a temporary arrangement, companions, common-law partners...all can be alternatives if both parties can come to mutually agreeable terms.

24. Are both parties willing to sign a pre-nuptial agreement? If it ends someday, are you willing to part with what you've brought into the marriage?

25. Religion and beliefs. Are yours and his/hers compatible?

26. Finally, your legacy. What is it that you feel most important to 'leave your mark upon this world'? You eat, drink, defecate, expectorate and (attempt to) procreate just because it "feels right". Marriage, depending on your point-of-view and upbringing, should not be a spur-of-the-moment decision based on feelings, but at the  very least, a well-thought-out pragmatic decision based on the points above.

 

Sorry, no potato for the long post.

 

mArtiAn:

1. Is this only a marriage of convenience? (Nothing convenient about it, she's an enormous pain in the arse). 2. Is sex the only thing you both have in common? (Nope, we're completely different sexes. Yey, another point to us!). 3. What do you actually have in common? (We both hate her mother). So far so good but I've got to go and watch the kids, or cook, or tidy or something, I'm not sure, it's all just a blur these days. Nice list though. Cheers.

8 years 9 weeks ago
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philbravery:

very well said

8 years 9 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

Sinobear: Your line of questioning is biased. How many non-intercultural couples get asked these questions, do you think? Love cannot be defined, and it's all good.

8 years 9 weeks ago
Report Abuse

Sinobear:

@coinarrrrrrgh: I believe that "love" is transient and that humans are not meant to be in monogamous relationships. I just think that a nice, neat, checklist is a good reality check for those who are thinking with their hormones instead of their brains.

8 years 9 weeks ago
Report Abuse

coineineagh:

how can a checklist you would never present to a non-intercultural couple be referred to as "thinking with brains"? My partner has ancestors from a different continent, so suddenly my relationship warrants more scrutiny than white-on-white? I'll tell you what I say to every nutter to treats us differently: I don't give a fuck what kind of interracial porn you(r boyriend) may be watching, but you either treat us normally as fellow humans, or you shut your dirty pie hole.

8 years 9 weeks ago
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Sinobear:

@coin: whoa, whoa, whoa! This checklist could be used for anyone thinking of getting married! Put down the Jagermeister and take a gander at point #22!

8 years 9 weeks ago
Report Abuse

coineineagh:

point 22 assumes i actually read it. you just shot yourself in the foot. kudos for calling people who read your dribble pathetic. the one who wrote it trumps them all.

8 years 9 weeks ago
Report Abuse

cub:

come on sino, we all are humans remember? And with different ages characteristics cultures back grounds thoughts likes and dislikes wants needs thats what makes us unique and imperfect! Sometimes a couples imperfections after marriage after working them out supporting each other through good AND bad to become a perfect match, and yes its not easy it takes work

8 years 9 weeks ago
Report Abuse

coineineagh:

Sino, yes love as we define it is a story we tell ourselves, like Santa. In fact relationships are determined by willpower, adaptability and a number of factors beyond our control. But if you get all cynical about things, you let your situation get the better of you. in 2011 i had lost 30,000 euros, nearly everything i had, in a bad marriage. i didn't sit in a bar moping, and 2 years later my first son was born. it wasn't because i met the perfect woman, it was because i adapted and stayed determined. life gave me lemons, so i made lemonade. my lady is pretty awesome, but our differences would easily have driven unmotivated couples apart. our main shared traits are determination and adaptability. i came to Germany alone in September, set up the business with limited speaking skills and no friends nearby. she has been in Germany almost 2 months, we have few family or friends visiting, but she is doing great. Life is chaos, so if you want to rely on someone, you must first rely on yourself.

8 years 9 weeks ago
Report Abuse

silverbutton1:

"5. Are you from different class backgrounds? It's easy to see yourself as a white knight "rescuing" your damsel in distress but that will just lead you to becoming an ATM for her and her family."

 
seen this numerous times throughout SE Asia. See you as a walking ATM machine to use as they please. Big warning sign on this one. If you lose your job, and cant find another one paying as well in a certain time frame, she will probably leave you. Same goes if you get sick, dont expect her to stick around,

8 years 9 weeks ago
Report Abuse

Shining_brow:

I'm not married - and probably never will be* - but I don't see anything particularly wrong with the checklist  (other than the first basic assumption - what are you getting married for? It was down towards the end, but should actually be #1).

 

And, unlike Coin, I don't see any difference between cultures. For me, yes, all those questions need to be asked regardless of the background etc of the people involved (yes, BOTH of them!)

 

 

(* - because I ask questions like these, and the answers don't suggest 'yes, this is a good idea!")

8 years 9 weeks ago
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8 years 9 weeks ago
 
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Intercultural marriages are under a lot more pressure than normal ones, because there is latent objection or disapproval from communities. I'm sure a great deal of them crack under that community pressure alone. Then there are the actual cultural differences, differing needs and expectations, which will drive many apart.

But there is a flipside. Shared suffering. Whatever people are saying, the pressure may actually bring you closer together. There is an urgent purpose to setting aside your petty differences and putting your heads together, to tackle all the difficulties life put in your path. And being unable to communicate your hurtful words in detail because of cultural/language barrier may actually be a blessing not a curse.

A lot of non-intercultural marriages are such a perfect fit, that people's minor differences get blown out of proportion. Cruel things are said that cannot be unsaid, and there is no cultural divide to blame the miscommunication on.

A lot of intercultural relationships are said to be done out of necessity or convenience. You know the claims:
"Couldn't get a pretty girl back home."
"Just wants passport. Does it for the money."
and so on and so forth.

In fact, intercultural marriages are being strained and TESTED from the get-go. They are not convenient, but if a couple can weather the gauntlet unscathed, the marriage is proven durable. Real love, people might say.
A lot of regular marriages between locals actually have too much convenience, and lack the sense of purpose that drives intercultural marriages. Lacking any test by the community, husband and wife will test each other, and that often ends in divorce.

Ar intercultural marriages more prone to divorce? Probably yes, because Chinese will be forbidden by family to divorce even if they want to. Foreigners are so 'free', to use a Chinese expression cheesily. Divorce rates are increasing in China faster than salaries, however.

mArtiAn:

My wife has a group of about 5/6 friends from uni she still meets and they're all married now. The thing is only about 2 of them really love their husbands and enjoy a healthy sex life apparently. The rest of them married as a result of family pressure because it was time to marry. God forbid any girl should still be single in her thirties. My wife is one of those lucky 2 I hasten to add. My kids will have no such pressure to marry of course, in fact I don't even like having my in-laws say stuff like "When you get older you'll meet a nice girl, bla bla bla." How do you know!? For all I know they might both be gay, I'm not gonna start mapping their relationships out for them, they might get lost. Hey, you're right, we foreigners are all sooo free! Wow, aren't I free!? Look how fucking free I am!! Look at my freedom!!! I SAID LOOK AT IT!!!!!

8 years 9 weeks ago
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8 years 9 weeks ago
 
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imo Sino has merit in most of his answer
mybe i am privileged to the girls talk because i can speak mandarin
if the husband's were not so lazy and met their partner half way with language maybe they would understand each other better.
and i do put the emphasis on lazy and the lady is left in the only light she has which is people that speak the same language and of course she will be influenced by their opinion
i only picked up on Chinese after my wife and i met . and if she wasn't a English teacher and S fluent as she is we would most likely not lasted
we spend lots of time talking to each other in both languages
we have kids and a home to support
both sides of our family are supportive and the 2 boys from our first marriages get on like brothers
we have a lot in common in goals and future plans
maybe we are just the lucky ones that happen to tick most of Sinos boxes

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Shifu

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As said above, intercultural couples are under a lot of pressure, more like so in the East than in the West. There is disapproval from the community, "race traitor!", "she married him for the passport!", "he couldn't find a wife back home!", stuff like that, we all know these are false and wrong, but the stereotype and social stigma run deep and it's difficult to change mentalities. Now I also do believe that if intercultural couples successfully get over it, they become much more close to each other than "regular" non-intercultural couples will ever be.

mArtiAn:

I've never heard any of this stuff said about me and my wife. Never. My Chinese is good enough to pick it up and I've never heard a single derogatory word spoken about us in ten years Not one. My wife was once asked if my dick was big enough, when I had gone into a shop and couldn't hear. Another fella once told her I'd leave her, but that's it.

8 years 9 weeks ago
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cub:

random, thats what i hear a lot of when people find out my gf race age and why she wants to marry me! Seriously, people who say this are basing this from rumors and need to get some new material get updated! i mean this is the 21st century not the 1970s! Sure, there are some foriegn women who do this but its not as easy to do as it used to be!

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