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Q: are we guest here?
the trio tell us that we should not be rude guests. but are we guests? how many of you are here on a tourist visa? many of you have been living here longer than i have. many of you are set up to be here for life. so why do they refer to you as guests? are you guests?
The only way we will be seen as a non guest is if we immigrate from Canada
and speak Chinese very very well.
The Russians in the early part of last century were given residency however I doubt
we ever will .
even in a small city the best you can hope for is being their Foreigner.
GuilinRaf:
And even so, there still may be those who will see you as a guest. Echinacities had an article about that, mentioning a guy from the US who stayed here after WWII, speaks Chinese, and I think he even has Chinese citizenship, yet, he is still Lao Wai...
You mean am I like a guest in somebody else's house? No, of course not. A country and a person do not work in the same way, and there is a fundamental difference between saying "Hey, your house is a sty" and "Hey, I wish people wouldn't piss, shit and spit on the street." The real reason is that Chinese people are sort of thin skinned when it comes to criticism. My suspicion is that this has something to do with that they seem to have a different relationship authority and so its not something they are used to. Some expats make allowances for that, and some don't. But I'm not going to concede that doing one is better than the other in a moral sense.
It's a figure of speech, isn't it. If I came to your country i'd consider myself a guest in the same way, I wouldn't sit myself down in the middle of Times Square, jump on a blog and start piss, shit and spitting out it's faults like i'm some beacon of truth, i'd go visit the Empire State building and try to have a nice day. And i'm not on any mission of truth here either. You wanna fill the air with turds of wisdom, knock yourself out mate.
crimochina:
your conveniently changing the question. if you as a chinese citizen or especially at brit went to america to live indefinitely (like many expats here). they would not consider you a guest but a resident. a person living here. it is sort of racists to permanently look at a foreigner as just a guest when they actually are living in the country. especially when the thought is based purely on the fact that you are not the same race as me. i have a resident permit. i am a resident of china not a guest. therefore i am entitled to speak more freely .
mattsm84:
People do that everyday. Have you ever heard of Yelp! ? Here is a post from somebody who did just what you're describing and I don't think any less of him:
Once the landmark purveyor of sleaze, Times Square still peddles in sleaze, but more of the consumerist variety, under the guise of "family"; f*cking cartoon characters will accost you on the street now, instead of hookers, for example.
One cannot just "cut through" Times Square. It was a fatal detour which smacked of "The Day of the Locust" or "Sybil."
Dante also came to mind.
"Abandon all hope ye who enter here."
Now it would be absolutely absurd to state outright that this person somehow isn't entitled to his criticism.
More over, I've been living here for years, and I consider myself at home when I'm at work, in my apartment, or at my local super market. I'm more than a little bothered by the notion that I should feel otherwise.
mArtiAn:
Crimo, I think you absolutely 'should' say whatever the hell you please, and I believe I absolutely 'should' do likewise. It's no big deal. I'm not part of the CCP or the trio of goody-goodies, i'm just someone with his own opinions. If someone says something I agree with i'll agree and if they say something I disagree with i'll disagree. When push comes to shove I don't really give a shit what anyone says on here, as long as they don't spill my pint.
I honestly do not consider myself a "guest" here. I have lived in China for nearly six years, I work for a living, I provide a service and I pay my taxes. Having lived here for such an amount of time, I have grown very attached to China, where certain behaviors really bother me, in part because I see that if China were to set that behavior aside, they could really progress even more. For example, stiffling imagination. If students were encouraged to be creative and to use imagination, that would translate into innovative thinking in the working world.
I feel I have a "stake" here, and having a stake here, I want my home to prosper. I truly want to see China develop as a happy and prosperous land, just as I wish my home country the same.
So, in answer to your question, no, I do not consider myself a guest in China, any more than the immigrants (seasonal or permanent) do to the US.
lokethebloke:
Couldn't agree more. But I think it's more a case of cultural interpretation. For instance, Germany has had turkish 'Gast Arbeiter' for decades and if memory serves me right they and their children and their grand children are still guests in Germany, they are not allowed to become citizens. Bit sad I think.
maggiegirly:
Nice to hear that and we'd like to have more western people like you here,put yourself into the culture and the society ,I am trying to put my husband into it too ,but it seems a bit hard,language is the main problem,he would like to . I remember when I was in Australia,I always put myself into the culture,the society and never take myself a guest there,but kinda a local people,I try everything if It's new to me,that's why I can always have a good time in Australia whenever I go there.But I go to China town pretty often ,still kinda miss Chinese food.can not help lol.
lokethebloke:
Crimo, I'm not a teacher but surely you do encourage your students to compare and contrast when discussing a subject? You are a teacher? Or am I getting senile in my old age?
Come on Crimo, it's Guests, not guest. How are your students going to learn properly?
lokethebloke:
Let's generalise for a moment - ALL schools in China must be very desperate for english teachers if they employ unqualified, foul mouthed teachers like you. (mirror) Just my opinion, but it COULD be everbody's opinion on here. I'm sure that you are bound to be offended because you are french, german, american swedish, west indian pakistani, british or any other nationality you claim to be.
lokethebloke:
Crimo, I'm not a teacher but surely you do encourage your students to compare and contrast when discussing a subject? You are a teacher? Or am I getting senile in my old age?
mattsm84:
Congratulations on finding a typographical error! Please click on the link to the main page to collect your prize!
lokethebloke:
Does that mean that I can become a teacher and join Crimo now?
mattsm84:
The only way to know for sure is to go to the main page. Who is to say you won't be offered his job. Good luck buddy!
I've addressed this in another post, but I suppose it bears repeating, in that, no, I do not consider myself a guest while in China. I am a legally here, possessing all the proper paperwork to be employed; part of which says I am a resident. I follow the rules and laws of China, as I agreed to do upon entering. I am married to a Chinese national. I live, work, and socialize according to the local traditions and make a point of operating to the dictates of culture.
I don't try to use my status to gain any undue favor or special treatment. If that is accorded to me upon occasion by the local citizens, it is because of their perception, not mine. I treat people the same here as I would in my native country; with respect, diligence, and kindness. In other words, I conduct myself as a person who has to get along with other people, regardless of the fact that one day I will return to my original place of residence.
Which brings me to say that, just because I may leave China one day doesn't make me a guest here, in my eyes. This, for now, is my home. I speak the language (not that greatly, yet), eat the food, make friends, buy things, work a job, and plan for the future; in other words, I have to make all the day-to-day decisions that I would have to make anywhere I live.
They refer to us/you/me as guests because we are foreigners and can and will never be Chinese. Can anyone gain permanent resident status in China?
I think it's a subtle way to say outsiders will always be outsiders.
Just my humble opinion.
bill8899:
I suppose so, but I'm not an authority on the Chinese language.
Crimo,
A happy holiday to you! Frankly speaking, we are NOTHING more than evil white ghosts..nothing more than ******* foreigners..that is just a fact! * This is due to Chinese racism,ethnocentrism,prejudice and xenophobia. Period! To many Chinese, expat women are whores and expat guys are deemed to be drug addicts,perverts,malcontents,criminals and just want sex with Chinese women. * These are the undeniable facts! Period! As was noted by a poster on this website the other day, there is A HUGE AND DISTINCT LACK OF RESPECT FOR FOREIGN EXPATS IN THIS COUNTRY! Period! I don't even want to hear the b.s. excuses regarding this whether by Chinese or Westerners. Well said Matt. Yes, the Chinese ARE thin-skinned and that is THEIR problem. * NO, the REAL reason is because many Chinese are RACIST. Period. With other Chinese, they are very fair,kind and decent people.
crimochina:
lar i would disagree with you on a few points. they are racist, sexist, and discriminate against each other just as much or worse than they do with expats. i have had students complain to me that they are outcasts simply because of where their hometown is. not to mention how they regard and treat ethnics. if someone has a crappy job they are regarded as trash by their peers. but the other stuff you said i agree with.
LAR:
Crimo,
Thanks for your respectful comments. Regarding your question, right on. Pardon me. It doesn't matter what color of skin we as foreign expats have here..as I said we're just ******* foreigners. * That's the bottom line. The racist Chinese exhibit 100 different ways of demonstrating this mindset. Many South Koreans are the SAME way.
