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Posts: 618

Shifu

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Q: Is backstabbing common among expats in China?

By which I mean is it more common, than say, among your people back "home"?

I've noticed a trend among certain expats in a few different Asian countries I've been around: instead of teaming up and helping each other out, it's more like they tend to descend like vultures when one among them has some difficulty. A soft example of this is how I notice most fellow westerns tend to avert their eyes when I see them in public, but I've seen more blatant examples such as harassment of critical ones (in particular a fellow I read of who ran a blog in Korea, pointed out some unsavory features of the expat community there, and ended up being harassed for it). Perhaps some people become bitter and isolated and then enjoy the other's pain.

So is this really more common here, or would you expect to find similar rates of back-stabbing or, in contrast, "helping a brother out", back home?

9 years 37 weeks ago in  Culture - China

 
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Emperor

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99% of the ex-pats i have encountered have been friendly and supportive towards each other, regardless of country of origin, helping with problems from day-to-day frustrations to bigger more serious problems.

there was only one that i met who caused problems.

initially we were all friendly: He was a newbie to China and the group of FT's all lived in the same prison, I mean accommodation block. Everyone helped the Newbies steer through common problems and shared local knowledge, inviting them to join in activities. We all had our own rooms and due to our differing schedules, this one guy took to drinking alone a lot and began inviting unsavory characters back to his room. Even in Stalag Luft the security were unwilling to confront him due to his size.

He attracted the attention of local thugs, and put the foreign girls on his floor in a very difficult and possibly dangerous position: disturbing their sleep was the least of their worries. He was advised, politely, several times, to think of the girls sleeping nearby before inviting his 'buddies' back for a late drink, which he ignored. After a bout of serious drinking one night, serious complaints were made and he was removed to a different location.

by and large the FT's i knew were tolerant of a lot, but when personal security was on the line, that was where people could not accept the behaviour.

Surprisingly, he was not fired from teaching: go figure.

expatlife26:

That's weird i've never met anybody like that here...but I can see why you wouldn't like him!

9 years 37 weeks ago
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Robk:

Haha...

 

You know why he wasn't fired? 

 

Because then he would tell his Triad buddies and they would go after the business owner. They absolutely LOVE showing a foreigner how tough they are... I saw it before in action. If they are helping a foreigner it justifies their actions in some warped way. 

9 years 37 weeks ago
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9 years 37 weeks ago
 
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Emperor

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If we've been great friends for 20-30 years, and you suddenly turn to a life of crime, or I discover that you're a pedophile, then I will stab you in the back and turn you in. If you were a family member who did the same, I will likewise backstab you. That's only IF I didn't kill you first.

 

That's the only time I'll backstab you.

Scandinavian:

so an affair with your wife wouldn't make you all green ? 

9 years 37 weeks ago
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Hulk:

An affair with my wife is a crime. I would kill.

9 years 37 weeks ago
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9 years 37 weeks ago
 
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Most expats are nice people, but as always and everywhere there is the usual arrogant pr*ck who thinks that he/she is better than everyone else.

 

My company has 37 foreign nationals working here, from very different countries (UK, USA, Germany, France, Nigeria, Japan, Korea, Russia, Qatar, ...), in different positions (trade, HR, accounting, ...), most are very friendly toward me and each others but there are 2 or 3 people who don't feel themselves pissing anymore because they have been in China for almost a decade, they tend to look down upon other foreigners although some of these other foreigners who have been here for a few years (sometimes a few months) speak better Chinese and know more about China than the guys who have been here for almost a decade.

 

To me it seems that these idiots have adopted the Chinese mindset of "if I am 1 day older than you are (in age, in China or in the workplace), then I can treat you like my b*tch and you can't complain in any way." These older expats also can't accept that despite having spent 10 years in China (not in the company) some newer expats have better positions and earn more than they do (because more qualified, and work instead of drinking during their youth, obviously).

 

One of them even took the habit of telling to newcomers "Oh you know all my friends are Chinese, I am long done hanging out with other expats" then is surprised when none of us invite him to our diners or activities after work.

 

To me expats who stab other expats in the back are frustrated morons who think that they are better than everyone, and spent too much time in China, thus adopting some Chinese behaviors.

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9 years 37 weeks ago
 
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Emperor

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I never have been "backstabbed"  in China, by locals or expats alike. Knocking on wood... I don't make special exceptions based on color, language, nationality. I see Earthlings and that's it ^^

 

About avoiding interaction with other foreigners... Yesterday, a commercial guy from my home country visited my company, to advertise a product. A colleague to tell me that,. Apart from "Hi, So, uh you're French ?" I was not quite sure of what to say, his product have nothing to do with my team. The guy was in a hurry. Rather than having an awkward empty conversation of 5 minutes, I kept working in my office. In a different context, say, in a train or a bar, I would have a conversation. I made some good friends like that. But then, it would have been true for any human, if we have one language in common.

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9 years 37 weeks ago
 
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Never seen this. I think here in town there is a very supportive expat community, with the odd tool-case who is not helping but promoting their business. 

 

Most expat relationships are kind of superficial. I know a lot of people, but there is only two I would even consider calling, should feces be nearing ventilators. 

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9 years 37 weeks ago
 
Posts: 2878

Shifu

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I wouldn't say so.

 

Give me an example of what you mean...like at work trying to undermine each other to get ahead? Bad mouthing you to locals? Yeah some people might not be enthusiatic about meeting other expats (maybe they like being special) but that's a big difference between shyness and hostility.

 

For what it's worth I'll take US expats in china over random US citizens ANY day of the week. 

 

If i'm busting on expats it's for being underachievers; a smart person making a dumb rationalization...it's not for being bad people. Of course some people are gonna be lame and base their esteem on a noncomplishment like time spent in China or how local they live...but shit i'll take the most awkward expat over a bible thumper, thug, tough guy, hostile militia crazy or whatever. 

 

the worst of the west is stuck in their comfort zones. You have to be somewhat cool I think just to venture out in the world in the first place.

 

The only difference is back home I would have a big enough pool of friends that I could hang out exclusively with people like me and eschew anyone I don't like.

Robk:

That's true. A lot of expiates that come here seem more down to Earth and going through something but... most aren't snobs. I would say more people are stand offish or snobs in general back home. 

9 years 37 weeks ago
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Most foreigners I know are usually pretty helpful or just kind of keep to themselves. 

 

I do know some foreigners that don't want to be around others because then they are no longer "special". I have personally told my Chinese buddies that a lot of foreigners (at least where I am currently) are okay people but you wouldn't want them teaching your kids English if you knew what they did in their spare time (which is pretty much the same as what Chinese business men do anyway...). 

 

I normally try to help out other foreigners as long as they don't act all arrogant and rude. And that includes being rude to nice Chinese people. 

 

I have only know a few super asshole foreigners that should have been dismantled physically. One was a boss for an ESL company and he would take foreigners out and pretend to be their buddy. Then he would treat them like crap and if they didn't take it... he would go up to some Chinese guys and tell them in Chinese that the other (innocent and unsuspecting foreigner) swore about them and talked smack. 

 

The new foreigner would get jumped while douche bag would go back to work the next day... impossible to get a hold of because he is so 'busy". Yet somehow has like a platinum trophy for all games on his PS3 online account. Also, he makes-out with young girls in the office because he is a sleaze. But when the Chinese bosses come around he is the brown-noser "Yes" man, that smiles and plays the white-monkey part. 

 

Watch out for those types, they exist in China.But it isn't too common. 

expatlife26:

wow anybody that woulf get somebody jumped for fun is a fucking sociopath.

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Emperor

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ive been backstabbed once.  A co-worker who claimed to be friends  was constantly bad mouthing me to my boss.  Unfortunately for him  I was pretty tight with my boss, and I was told about it right away and all it did was prove himself to be untrustworthy. He didnt last long. Not saying thats why, just one of a million reasons. 

 

I still keep in contact with him about twice a year, only to hear his wild tales that only the craziest liars can come up with. 

 

I wasnt even upset really. It could have easily happened back home when its just two employees in sort of direct competition.  Dude just wasnt happy with his lot in life.  

 

It is what it is. 

expatlife26:

yeah that's more a competition thing than an expat thing. It happens. 

 

It wasn't someone in direct competition with me, but I once successfully lobbied management that another expat (canadian born chinese) be fired on the grounds they didn't take their job seriously and it was making more work for everybody else. Not a tough sell.

 

I'm sure he feels that I backstabbed him, I felt it was the right thing to do.  It was kindaon principal that if you wanna go and fuck around...plenty of low hour/responsibility jobs out there and plenty of people stuck in those jobs who would kill for a shot at something more serious. Guy was more interested in drunkenly telling girls about his great job than in actually doing it.

 

 I say he had to go, i'm sure he has a very different opinion.

9 years 37 weeks ago
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Robk:

@expatlife26

 

Yeah, I am like that too. Is it too much to ask for people to just do their damn job? 

 

Too many people are lazy self-entitled assholes that lose out to someone hungrier and better qualified... only to blame everyone but themselves. 

 

That's why when I hire people, I always tell them to be proactive. If you can do your job without standing around looking for someone to point you in the right directly constantly... you are already one-up on like 90% of Earth's population. 

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Shifu

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of course u hit it on the head reason  most of he expats are socially inadequate in there home country or cant find a job or just losers in general no comments please  the truth hurts i   knowangel

they feel superior in a third world country

sam239:

No I think most (like me) are simply adventurous types. But the Party Propaganda is correct, there is a definite subset (maybe less than 10%) of expats who are "losers" back home, couldn't get the same jobs they are working here, couldn't bone the same women they are boning here, etc. For some reason they consider this as evidence of their glorious country's greatness, but I see it as evidence that the "glorious rise" is more of a joke. A dangerous and evil joke, however.

9 years 37 weeks ago
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Robk:

I would say most... I would say a considerable number though. 

 

Like 30-40% 

 

 

9 years 37 weeks ago
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TedDBayer:

sh*4brains

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Posts: 112

Governor

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Sure I've seen some backstabbing. A guy (call him Mike)  was doing hours at a training school to earn money so that he could pay for his plane ticket back to the states. Another teacher (call him Tim)  from the university started doing part time hours at the training school as well. Mike asked Tim not to work there until he earned enough money to go home. Despite several threatening phone calls and texts Tim still showed up at the training school.

 

Next day he's called in to the foreign office at the university and forced to sign a letter of apology and threatened with dismissal if he's ever caught again. He figured out that the foreign office at the university had received a phone call from Mike about his part time work. Mike was later fired from the training school once they discovered that he was leaving as soon as he got the money for his plane ticket. Tim wasn't all that good of guy either but he didn't deserve what happened to him.

Robk:

Yeah, you can't really ask someone NOT to work because you need money lol. 

 

Especially, if you don't even know the guy. 

 

"Hey Joe stranger! I need to feed my family, so could you not feed yours please? No? FUCK YOU! I WILL GET YOU FIRED JOE!"

 

Sounds like a raging idiot, doesn't it? 

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