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Sign up with Google Sign up with FacebookQ: Being a non-native speaker,it's hard to be a teacher regardless of how good your English is!
....well,many non-native speakers speak fluently without that heavy accent,so does it come down to pronunciation?as Americans,Britishers,Australians,kiwis and other natives don't pronounce all the words in the same manner,is not that factor ruled out as well?So the point is,besides human error,if I am just confident that i won't be having any grammatical errors in my English,what do i lack now?(I'm brown skinned),How do I get a good paying job?
11 years 12 weeks ago in Teaching & Learning - China
Yes, that's true! At many Chinese Schools English level of Chinese teachers is very low. They are hardly able to judge grammar in your English.
But, Chinese parents like to have white skin, blue eyed English teacher, with native English passport.
It is more about look, than anything else.
I cannot advice you on your chances to get 'good paying job', because that is truly individual thing. You can read here, native English black teachers and native English Asian teachers have problems at getting jobs in China.
Start replying to job offers you are interested in, and you will get feeling about how difficult is to get 'suitable position with good pay'. Almost all Chinese Schools require photo in your CV.
Why do you think, School wants to see photo of perspective employee before interview?
But you do have grammar errors.
981977405:
Miss A,
Do you mean "errors in grammar" or "grammatical errors"? "Grammar errors" is also incorrect.
Traveler:
"Grammar errors" sounds fine to me. That's the trouble with non-Australians - poor English skills.
981977405:
You are the roughest talking dame on this board -- that is for sure.
And no - "grammar mistakes" is blatantly incorrect, Australianism or no Australianism.
Traveler:
She's a rough talking sheila. Get it right. Told you non-Australians have poor English skills.
MissA:
There are actually no words to describe how little I care about what you think, numbers.
981977405:
One of my Australian colleagues at work told me to never use the word "sheila" not even in Ozzie slang because it has overtones of a public lady. So I don't use it at all.
MissA:
"Overtones of a public lady" - oh, please!
If you want to call me nasty names, just go right ahead and do it.
981977405:
I was commenting upon the use of the word "sheila". There was no reference to you intended, veiled or otherwise.
Ashita76:
nothing personal but, Australian English is really ugly and hard to understand for most foreigners, British English or even American and Canadian english is much more easy to understand. Maybe because of Hollywood...
MissA:
"Nothing personal" does not stop that comment being somewhat rude. I note you've failed to mention your own home country, would you like others to critique your voice based on a biased geographical interpretation?
Some English accents are nice, some are awful; my Australian flatmate actually avoids my English flatmate in part because her voice is so annoying (think Essex...).
Some American accents are nice, some are very annoying, also.
Ashita76:
well sorry if i hurt your sensitivity, but there is always a lot of ranting around when a non-native speaker is trying to work as an english teacher and people starts to act as dicks. Given that most chinese just need english to communicate, if the guy got a standard pronunciation, where is the problem? Many asians actually understand better canadian and american accent than aussie or kiwi (is that english?) accent
MissA:
Ashita, a lot of people (myself included) feel little sympathy when people put up a badly written question saying they're being discriminated against when in fact their written English suggests they are simply not that good.
Now, as per your second point, I've said on here a number of times that I have a number of non-native colleagues who are excellent teacher, and that anyone who is equally good as a native speaker should be full opportunities.
MissA:
.... and of course language learners just want to communicate. That's what language is about!
Ashita76:
Understand it perfectly, but it would be actually helpful if you explain your statement about the OP by highlighting his mistakes. I don't see any serious grammar mistakes but I am not native, so i might be wrong. It's his writing style, punctuation?
MissA:
Ashita, I am not going to spend my holidays doing what I get paid to do through the whole year!
It is difficult for even a native speaker to be an effective teacher without proper training as a teacher, regardless of how good they believe they are. That really doesn't matter, because the teaching methods used by the Chinese for teaching English (Grammar Translation Method) were phased out in the west in the 1930s. English education in China is a farce, so you just do the best you can do. It makes little difference.
As for getting good paying jobs, it has all been said before. Most schools look for physical appearance, not teaching skills. In many instances, it is just the luck of the draw.
Traveler:
There is too much emphasis on racism. Other forms of discrimination are equally heinous, including sexism, ageism and disability discrimination. All of these are rampant in China, not just racism. If you happen to be an old African-American woman with one leg, you have no chance.
981977405:
Traveler, perhaps you are not as attuned to things here at you would cause the average reader to believe. I mean it, i.e.,
(1) Age discrimination for foreign teachers. Theoretically yes, in some provinces more so than others. There are so many simple workarounds in place for this here -- and the commonest takes the form of what is called an "exclusionary request" to the local FEB or the provincial FEB. If the school or the language center can justify employing "x" foreign teacher over a given age, then an exclusionary order usually issues -- up until the age of 65, and sometimes until the age of 67.
(2) You wrote somewhere else that insurance is not available for older teachers. Not so -- at the urging of SAFEA Beijing, a special insurance plan was brought into effect for older teachers through PICC (People's Insurance Company of China). Some employers pick up the full cost per person (around RMB 2,500 per year); others pass half along to the employee.
(3) Discrimination based on national origin. OK, this has been evolving and not favorably. Before the financial crisis hit Europe and when it was still really difficult to staff all the positions in China with lily white faces,yes, indeed, ABC's and CBA's and Africans and the rest could find work in China. Now with the hordes of Europe's under-25 employed showing up around here, they have made the rules more difficult.
Perhaps it suits your form of journalism to find everything wrong with China. I don't know and really don't care.
Then again, the Washington Post recently carried an exceptionally negative article on Australia as the new site for international drug trading, the latest hot spots for the world's whores, hard-and-heavy living, etc., etc. Go read it -- it was hardly eulogious.
Traveler:
For the majority of foreigners, these are not realistic options.
Do you have a link to the article about Australia?
Traveler:
Always exciting when there's a story about Australia in an overseas newspaper
MissA:
Makes my day every time. It was particularly fun when I lived in Scotland - I'd never have known what crazy antics the wild animals of Oz were up to without the BBC.
981977405:
No, you didn't find the right story.
The story actually was carried by Reuters, that famous little British organization (I think that you call them "pommies" downunder, don't you?). Anyway, here's the reference and yes, it was picked up by the Washington Post, by Yahoo, and a host of other major international newspapers:
http://news.yahoo.com/sex-drugs-rock-roll-australias-other-boom-022542747.html
Traveler:
And once again, totally off topic, and not even about China. But a mostly flattering article about Australia.
It describes our boom economy, the fact that we are a developed economy, that our dollar is stronger than the American dollar, that our wages are extraordinarily high, that more international rock bands and singers come to Australia than other countries, and that workers from all over the world are coming here to capitalise on our good fortune.
As far as the drugs you mentioned, your article mentioned the $246 million bust of drugs from China that I referred to, as well as 69,500 other drug busts ( the highest number of drug busts in a decade). That sounds like the police are getting on top of it.
Prostitution isn't really a problem, because it is legal in Australia. It also provides an essential service for the fly-in, fly-out workers (many from China) that work in isolated mining areas. Many of the sex workers are also from China. But again, perfectly legal.
I see a lot more positive about Australia in this article than negative. Thanks for sharing
To the OP, this is going to come down to the proverbial Chinese "rush-through-the-door" hiring season that occurs about the last week of February or the first week of September. At those points in time, Chines employers are looking for a body, almost any "body" just to put in front of their children and in front of the parents who are paying money for the "laowai".
You grammar is not the best -- that is evident -- but then again you might just be required to teach "oral English" -- in which case a lack of concision in grammar wouldn't matter at all.
Finally, the third factor is going to be "passport" and the ability of the employer to deal with those issues and any other issues involving country of origin.
You need to search carefully, consider the different portals, etc., etc.
Why does no one question the qualification of the local Chinese teachers? They're not native speakers either. Besides, most of them do not have a good command of English.
Over the past 2 years, and especially the last year, I have noticed many non-caucasian English teachers. I think the schools are attempting to cut costs. I really don't know how much these people are paid but it seem to me that it would be easier to pay a lower salary to a person who is coming from a country with a lower standard of living than in China. Just a thought. I know many non-English caucasians in Canada who have better English skills than most. Even they would be hard pressed to find a well paying teaching job in China.
icnif77:
I don't think, 'cut cost' and 'lower salary' are the real cause for hiring Non-natives. Number of Native English teachers applying for job in China is low, IMHO.
300 M English students in China need 300 000 Native English teachers, if each FT teach 1000 students every month. Most Training centers have much less students per FT.
mike695ca:
I do think some of it is cost cutting as well. Mixed with the fact that attitudes are changing in China and starting to become just a little less racist. When I first came to China it was super common to hear of parents getting pissed because their kids teacher was an African or from the Philipines. I remember co-workers getting really upset that their ( quite good) classes, werent being recognized at all because of how they look.
It seems that in the last few years, parents have calmed down a bit more about that and seem more willing to accept a non native teacher. So you know these schools, If the parents can accept it, then hell yeah, why not save money?
Im not positive thats the reason, but it seems logical.
"It doesn't matter whether a cat is white or black, as long as it catches mice...
MissA:
Sorry man, I just went to give you a thumbs up and hit the down button instead... oops.
nothing personal but, Australian English is really ugly and hard to understand for most foreigners, British English or even American and Canadian english is much more easy to understand. Maybe because of Hollywood...
Hulk:
I have the worst hearing in the world, or something. I have no trouble understanding aussies, so as long as there isn't too much background noise.
Now, people from Scotland.... errr..... uh....
MissA:
Hulk, some Scots are very easy to understand, some are very difficult. Women tend to be easier, for some reason.
My mother in law grew up in one of the more understandable areas of Scotland and I never have any problems following her, even over a crappy skype line. My father in law grew up in Glasgow.... whole different story!
Ashita76:
Miss A, you are a native english speaker, of course to you every regional variation on your mother-tongue will be eventually understood..
MissA:
Actually, ashita, the end of my comment to hulk was that I often don't understand my father-in-law. Why on earth are you so hell-bent on trying to pick a fight with me?
icnif77:
I knew brothers from Glasgow in US. Younger one would always 'adjust' his talk, when he referred to me. I couldn't understand anything, he would say in 'Glassg twang'.
mArtiAn:
Och, yis a canny mare n'true. Na'er a Scottish wurd'll pas f'pipes a'blast, aboot lassy, urgle, burgle, wurgle, blugle, fnart, spinach.
icnif77:
@Mars: Does this talk come from 'Celtic' or 'Rangers' fan? They promised me, they'll take me to the Loch. I'll go to Fl and 'demand' to see the 'monster' immediately. @Ashita: 'If you can find poster with letter T on the beginning of his handle, you are there…….
so where are those "grammatical mistakes"? ...
mike695ca:
Perhaps it was the BritishERS part. That kinda stuck out for me.
In China you have to be a qualified native English teaching fashion model! If you know what I mean by the term "fashion Model" then you know why 85% of none native speakers don't get high paying jobs, because you can't model while teaching to sell the idea to your customers that you are in fact a native speaker.
nicholasba:
well in 2008 i was an italo-american guy from NY, and in 2010 i came from a small town called dickville...and no one gave a xxxx about...cheers
icnif77:
@iron: 'Is '92000 Rmb yearly and free apartment' for 10 (60') hours per week high pay?'
mike695ca:
no, it doesnt matter how much you work. It cant be considered high pay.
icnif77:
I agree. I came here off Dalian, with some 28h per week (3 different Schools&privates), and I was guessing, I can make 'tone' here with so low hours at my prime job.
BuTT, I was wrong! Area is Gov. subsidized, so none of the Schools hire part-time. Kindergartens or Language Schools are non-existent.
ironman510:
@icnif77, It's OK, not too bad, it's kind of like a part salary in the U.S annually now with that new Obama care system.
icnif77:
But, we're not in the US. I spent less than 1/3 of US salary for Mac G4 in 2003. Same machine costs one yearly salary here.
mike695ca:
what? I was just in Dalian this week, I saw lots of training centers. Theres a Web on zhongshan road, they always take on part timers.
how can any one in their sane mind call someone elses language ugly. There is your answer to where you were wrong with the grammar. You may be ugly but any language is sweet as long as you you can converse in it. ---even Swahili for that matter.
mike695ca:
i dont know man, some languages definatly sound better or worse to me. Like for example, your hippy talk right now sounds kinda ugly