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Q: Bye Bye Non Native Teacher's, we'll miss you, God bless.
Non-Native English Speakers May Lose Their Jobs
2017-01-11
From October 2016, a new work permit policy was launched by the State Administration of Foreign Experts Affairs (SAFEA), which classifies foreign workers into three categories, ranking them as an A, B, or C expat, based on their profession, level of education, work experience, and so forth. It has been piloted in Beijing, Shanghai, Tianjin, Hebei Province and other places, according to a post on the administration's website. In April, the pilot will spread to other areas in China.
In these pilot areas, foreign English teachers should be native English speakers with a bachelor's degree from their home country, in addition to having two years of teaching experience. Before this new policy, non-native English speakers could work as an English teacher if they have a bachelor's degree from an English-speaking country.
Yet under the new policy, the bar has been raised. Non-native speakers cannot be an English teacher, even if they obtain a degree from an English-speaking country. "I will not be qualified for my job because of this new regulation," said Apachicha, who works at RISE English language training school. "It will also shun many qualified non-native speakers like me who hope to come to teach English in China."
An official with the SAFEA, who asked to remain anonymous, told a newspaper that they did so to attract qualified native English speakers, and to improve the overall quality of foreign language teachers. Although there are good intentions, foreign English teachers and a manager of a recruiting agency for foreign teachers interviewed by the newspaper think that it would further increase the shortage of foreign language teachers, and advise for more nuanced requirements over the qualifications. In recent years, driven by China's great need for the English language, local media has reported that some English learning centers or language institutions hire unqualified English teachers, even foreign students from non-native countries such as the Philippines, India, Africa and Russia to work as teachers or to pretend to be native speakers.
7 years 14 weeks ago in Visa & Legalities - China
Just goes to show how ignorant the people making these decisions really are!
Most European countries aren't using NES to do the majority of the teaching, and yet the English of Swedes, Germans, Finns, Danes, etc etc etc is really really good (much better than Chinese).
The simplest approach is extremely simple.... anyone who wants to teach English must have a) a teaching qualification (of the ok sort, not the dodgey sort), and b) have an internationally recognised English proficiency score from a recognised test (IELTS, TOEFL, PET, etc) to an appropriate level. (but not TOEFL for speaking - that's a truly sucky test of English!!!)
I know many NNES would be able to teach with that level, but I also know many that would easily pass the grade!
ironman510:
IF China wanted just open a Gov training center, while making money off Native teachers with their own "Teach in China TEFL" training programs and than they would be the ones to send us to schools who needed us and give us the Visa and all. They could keep the scores and levels, accents, type of students for us that we would teach best and send us to that school that fits us. Just an idea to build on. If we wanted to change jobs any where in China this office would be the one to do it at. And if someone didn't fit the bill or didn't pass an entrance exam, than take record of their passport number and kick them out or send them for improvement programs in lower level cities to develop and have more chances later.
RandomGuy:
You know what's most funny? China plays picky but will not offer nearly the same salary or benefits as its neighbors.
This: "An official with the SAFEA, who asked to remain anonymous, told a newspaper that they did so to attract qualified native English speakers"
"Qualified native English speakers" will not come except for a handful of international schools. The offered salaries in regular schools are just too low to attract certified native teachers of English, and most don't even offer any benefits. No, 'free disgusting oily canteen meals twice a day' and 'free Chinese lessons from unwilling local teacher who is forced to do so' don't count as benefits.
Let's laugh at the accommodation they provide. In Japan, if you teach in the JET program (public school), they will provide you with a modern condo within the city with a free unlimited mass transit card (it's the government program, remember) or a house and a car (yes, a car!) in towns or rural areas where there is no mass transit. In China you are lucky if they give you a single bedroom in a communist concrete block, all the while your boss drives to the school with a Lamborghini.
In the JET program, Foreigners can become DoS at one school or coordinators (for several schools) and increase their salary up to Western standards. In China, Foreigners are stuck to being teachers and only a handful of places will allow them to climb the ladder.
Higher salaries, better work environment, better work ethics, not seen like a dancing monkey, better accommodation and benefits. Why would certified native English teachers choose China over its neighbors?
Englteachted:
Because Japan is evil! And China is great with 5000 years of history and Chinese food
I heard the same few minutes ago from Nanjing School's rep. He told me the matter of hiring Non's will change (Gov.'s raising the bar) after April, 2017, i.e. 'it won't be possible anymore'.
'We'll all cry, when you leave .... hehe he'.
ironman510:
I'm sure there will be a loop hole, as there always is. We gotta let them try first then once they see this method doesn't work they'll turn back to the old ways.
ironman510:
And this method works for Korea only because Korea is the same size as our fingernail, but China is the size of our hand, so there's too much need and too many people. They will change it before August 2017 I'm sure.
icnif77:
Yeah, I say, it is impossible for China to have the same requirements as Japan, Korea, Taiwan and others.
It's too big demand for Native English teachers in China.
There are around 300 million English language students in China. Imagine, whole USA started to learn French ... from 'yesterday'... You need half of the France (and Quebec) working as teachers ...
If every Native English teach 300 students on average, you need a million of You 
.
Where are you going to get million Native English teachers?
You can't do it without moi, China! 
IMO, if China would be smart, every Native English teacher should spend 5 classes per week with students and another 15 classes by teaching Chinese English teachers.
Only that way, China could limit number of foreigners teaching English .... by taking over English teaching like they do in EU .... improve quality of English language at domestic English teachers.
ironman510:
Who will be most affected by this move? (Teachers I mean)
1. Russians
2. South Africans (Not sure yet. Are they native English?)
3. Europeans
icnif77:
I am looking for new (B)-job and today the 3rd potential employer is telling me about 'no more Non's' and tried to make me sign shady Contract: 'pay and classes required all good (we negotiated for a week), benes too, however school and working city on the Contract are different than real working school and city'.
me: 'I won't sign it, because working in other school/city than it's written on the Contract puts me in illegal worker's position. New FEC will have written at 'dedicated place of work' School and city from the Contract.'
Rep.: 'But, you know Chinese law will change in April and we won't be able to employ Non's anymore. You should sign new Contract, because later it will be too late ....'
They try to sell me illegal Contract with new law changes threat.
me: 'Meiyou, Contract must have the same School and city, where I will be working!'
Rep.: 'we have Russian doing Z visa and will work at this School. Previous FT was from Serbia, but he left ....'
me: 'I work in China since May 2009, what makes me authority on Chinese laws and regulations ...
'
Shining_brow:
Some (most?) South Africans are native English speakers - while many are Dutch (Afrikaans) native speakers... And some are bi-(or more)lingual.
icnif77:
First two SA's I met at Tangshan EF were DOS and English teacher. You can't get hired at EF, if you aren't holding Native English passport.
However, I was lucky to be hired at EF as Non, 'cause SA DOS was tired of all teaching he had to perform, because of lack of Native English teachers. He hired me on L visa out of UK.
'desperation' comes to mind
its a losing proposition all the way around, the younger teachers make more in other asian countries and the us economy will rebound and many will pack and go back home, myself included, summer 2019 for me, the paperwork to get over here is much worse, no happy ending at all for this mess.
Just goes to show how ignorant the people making these decisions really are!
Most European countries aren't using NES to do the majority of the teaching, and yet the English of Swedes, Germans, Finns, Danes, etc etc etc is really really good (much better than Chinese).
The simplest approach is extremely simple.... anyone who wants to teach English must have a) a teaching qualification (of the ok sort, not the dodgey sort), and b) have an internationally recognised English proficiency score from a recognised test (IELTS, TOEFL, PET, etc) to an appropriate level. (but not TOEFL for speaking - that's a truly sucky test of English!!!)
I know many NNES would be able to teach with that level, but I also know many that would easily pass the grade!
ironman510:
IF China wanted just open a Gov training center, while making money off Native teachers with their own "Teach in China TEFL" training programs and than they would be the ones to send us to schools who needed us and give us the Visa and all. They could keep the scores and levels, accents, type of students for us that we would teach best and send us to that school that fits us. Just an idea to build on. If we wanted to change jobs any where in China this office would be the one to do it at. And if someone didn't fit the bill or didn't pass an entrance exam, than take record of their passport number and kick them out or send them for improvement programs in lower level cities to develop and have more chances later.
RandomGuy:
You know what's most funny? China plays picky but will not offer nearly the same salary or benefits as its neighbors.
This: "An official with the SAFEA, who asked to remain anonymous, told a newspaper that they did so to attract qualified native English speakers"
"Qualified native English speakers" will not come except for a handful of international schools. The offered salaries in regular schools are just too low to attract certified native teachers of English, and most don't even offer any benefits. No, 'free disgusting oily canteen meals twice a day' and 'free Chinese lessons from unwilling local teacher who is forced to do so' don't count as benefits.
Let's laugh at the accommodation they provide. In Japan, if you teach in the JET program (public school), they will provide you with a modern condo within the city with a free unlimited mass transit card (it's the government program, remember) or a house and a car (yes, a car!) in towns or rural areas where there is no mass transit. In China you are lucky if they give you a single bedroom in a communist concrete block, all the while your boss drives to the school with a Lamborghini.
In the JET program, Foreigners can become DoS at one school or coordinators (for several schools) and increase their salary up to Western standards. In China, Foreigners are stuck to being teachers and only a handful of places will allow them to climb the ladder.
Higher salaries, better work environment, better work ethics, not seen like a dancing monkey, better accommodation and benefits. Why would certified native English teachers choose China over its neighbors?
Englteachted:
Because Japan is evil! And China is great with 5000 years of history and Chinese food
I doubt they will leave, the policy entered in application last October in Guangdong and I still receive as much demand for 'native or non-native with good accent'. IMO this will only push more people to work on non-working visas, which also means tax-free work, it's all benefits for the teacher.
The market is insatiable, China is just too big, and certified natives won't come since China mostly pays peanuts when compared to its neighbors, yes even Vietnam, well except for a bunch of international schools that make up like 0,001% of the market.
But it's just a thought, I may be wrong.
RandomGuy:
Yep, we have no problem filling in positions in other countries, in China it's a struggle, not only because of the sheer size of the market but also because of the bad reputation that Chinese schools as a whole have made for themselves. It's like employers don't seem to realize that people talk online about their experience at said school, and that once it's on the internet it doesn't ever go away.
Englteachted:
And when we come here they treat us like shit.. Go to Japan, people are nice, because they know they need the outside world. Go to the Phils, they're nice, they know they need the outside world. Same for Mexico, Vietnam and others. China depends on foreign trade but acts like they need no one. They're arrogant and over played their hand and are suffering the consequences.
Anuragbhadra:
i simply don't understand, the schools need me, they want me, but the stupid visa wont let them. Then there are those who say they know some workaround through the system, i dunno how they do it but they pay me like 1/3 of a native. I dunno who is getting fleeced, the teachers or the government.
And, just to add to the NNES teacher bit - they should look at the number of IELTS examiners who don't hold English-speaking country passports!!! Will BJ try to suggest that those people don't know English well enough to teach?
I don't see how they think this will increase the quality of ESL teachers. The only thing that will happen is the supply of FTs will dry up unless the recruiters start to pay more. I get the feeling some people in the government own a few recruiting companies and are trying to close down a large number of other recruiting companies that don't provide big red envelopes.
ironman510:
Do these still use the big red hong~baos? I thought they stopped this in big cities?
