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Q: Is China making it easier or worse for foreigners?
In the past year, I have seen a lot of articles about more foreign friendly visa regulations and housing purchase policies being implemented (mainly in Shanghai and Shenzhen). However, Beijing seems to be becoming less and less foreign friendly due to increased media focus on "bad foreign behavior".
So, it seems like in most top-tier cities, living in China is opening more options.
I found that in smaller cities, it is still incredibly difficult and little to no change has been done at all. The only beneficial factor towards foreigners in smaller cities is the novelty factor or special treatment they give to foreigners in clubs, restaurants and otherwise.
Overall, I would say China isn't REALLY making it easier for foreigners to live in China. It is kind of pretending it is to appease the U.N. and international community by making new regulations by adding additional requirements. But if you have lived in China for a few years, it is easy to tell that these new regulations only apply to certain foreigners that probably don't even want to live in China for the long-term anyway.
Luckily, Chinese companies are starting to realize the gains of opening up to foreigners and are making it easier for foreigners to make purchases through WeChat or Alibaba. If only the Chinese government would stop being so xenophobic and jump on board.
So, what do you think? Anything getting easier? OR mostly just the same?
I see the trolls are having their fun with the down-votes.
I've long maintained that China sees us as batteries...use our power then discard us when we're burned out.
They did it to De Haviland...promised a deal that would save the dying aircraft company, wined and dined, promised 'far-reaching and long-term' mutual benefits.
As soon as they got all of the technical and mechanical know-how from their experts, dropped them like a day-old xiaojie and declared that they'd never made any such promises.
Now the Chinese are producing their very own aircraft that crash within three test flights.
In answer to your question - easier if they want something from you, impossible if you stand to make a decent buck in exchange (long-term). You mentioned about offering permanent residence to those that don't want it and that's true...but those who refuse will still be seen as ungrateful. And the Chinese gov't will never look at treating foreigners who want to migrate here as equals, only "parasites" and any attempt by our own (spineless) gov'ts to act in kind will result in "hurt feelings", cries of racism and discrimination and a tit-for-tat reciprocal behavior from Beijing.
What a shame that the 2008 Olympic slogan "One World, One Dream" really only meant "One China, One Chinese World."
Robk:
Yeah, that's true. The soiled reputation of the Chinese is reaching every corner now with businessmen and you can be certain that once China's economy has slowed down (which it is doing now) and they are in a hard recession...
Chinese businessmen and government delegates will be treated relatively based on their actions. Like a whiny, bully, thieving jerk that had their moment in the sun but totally abused it without class. Do they really think nobody will remember?
When the money dries up, Chinese will be shunned like no other before them.
For things thats really matters, its the same as it was 15 yrs ago, just people i feel are less friendly. Being said that is easier if you think and behave as a foreign guest, is impossible if you really want to live here like many immigrants, chinese too, do in europe.
There is a reason why I keep praising Foshan, it is a very foreigner-friendly city, even when compared to SZ and SH, it was the first city in China to hire Foreigners at government positions and the only one for more than 5 years, doing all the administrative stuff is super easy and the local people have clearly been educated to behave appropriately in the presence of Foreigners, let alone all the signs, information being translated to English, stuff like that. I know local government people and they really want to make this place the most Foreigner friendly in China. I won't leave this place for anywhere else but home.
Chhris:
Could you list a few chain schools that are in Foshan and hire foreigners as English teachers there?
earthizen:
There are a couple of reasons behind Foshan's "foreigners friendliness". 1. It was a relatively well off sector in the past (poverty is hell). 2. Unlike cities like Donguan and Shenzhen, it wasn't filled to the brim with factories, attracting millions of uneducated peasants young and old. 3. Like Guangzhou, it is a centuries old large city, its original residents (i.e. not the "nongs" from Henan, Wunan, Xinjiang, .....god knows where) are exposed to more of the western world, relative to other cities, thus know a bit more what a civilized human being should look like, and behave. Thanks to Hong Kong, the prime gateway of the entire PRC, they get what little info that gets trickled in. These are the reasons why you find the original residents of Guangzhou and Foshan, generally speaking, behave more like human beings.
RandomGuy:
Yes, most definitely. The peasant migrants can be a pain in the ass especially when you've been in the city longer than them yet they keep acting like they own the place and you are the newbie. The native local people however are usually most civilized and do not act like Foreigners are some sort of freak show. Which makes it easy to spot who is a native and who isn't, I won't even bother with the non local people, they are just not worth it and eventually go back to wherever they came from. I would say these days Foshan's population is still 70% native so it's better than Guangzhou still where the locals are outnumbered by hordes of peasants.
I kinda like it how doing even the simplest of things is nearly impossible in China. It keeps you on your toes.
Robk:
Well, that does have a good side effect. When you return home you will find everything incredibly easy and scoff at people who have troubles and complain all the time.
You become a super problem solver/preventer and see things coming a mile away. Cause if you don't in China, everyday is a BCD. When you return home, you feel superhuman... I was telling people left and right how to do their jobs back home as well haha.
I haven't really experienced enough of the 'real' China to comment. I can only pass on comments from others who have been around longer. Here in Hangzhou, the answer is yes - it is easier. There seems to have been a significant increase in foreigners coming here - both for work and as international students at the local universities, and so I hear that local attitudes are changing.
But then - we're getting the G20 next year, so you can bet your arse things will be 'foreign friendly' here!!!
Some things, however, never change! And no amount of signage or whatever will stop people pushing their way onto buses and metros while people are trying to get off...
I think it's about the same. Outside of the big 3/4, I don't think China will ever be "user friendly" for foreigners. Hell, it's not user friendly for locals. That's ok. That's what makes China great for a short-term romp, but extremely frustrating in the long-term. It's too much frustration for me-heading home after Spring Festival after 5 years here. I hate having to rely on my wife to do mundane tasks;it's not fair to her, and it makes me feel helpless. Life shouldn't be made so difficult.
Robk:
That was a huge thing for me. I couldn't stand relying on my wife all the time to do simple tasks. For one reason, she would usually screw up (and its not her fault she just doesn't understand)... the second is because it is impossible or extremely difficult for a foreigner to accomplish...
Not even due to communication... it was mainly due to just being a foreigner.
I see the trolls are having their fun with the down-votes.
I've long maintained that China sees us as batteries...use our power then discard us when we're burned out.
They did it to De Haviland...promised a deal that would save the dying aircraft company, wined and dined, promised 'far-reaching and long-term' mutual benefits.
As soon as they got all of the technical and mechanical know-how from their experts, dropped them like a day-old xiaojie and declared that they'd never made any such promises.
Now the Chinese are producing their very own aircraft that crash within three test flights.
In answer to your question - easier if they want something from you, impossible if you stand to make a decent buck in exchange (long-term). You mentioned about offering permanent residence to those that don't want it and that's true...but those who refuse will still be seen as ungrateful. And the Chinese gov't will never look at treating foreigners who want to migrate here as equals, only "parasites" and any attempt by our own (spineless) gov'ts to act in kind will result in "hurt feelings", cries of racism and discrimination and a tit-for-tat reciprocal behavior from Beijing.
What a shame that the 2008 Olympic slogan "One World, One Dream" really only meant "One China, One Chinese World."
Robk:
Yeah, that's true. The soiled reputation of the Chinese is reaching every corner now with businessmen and you can be certain that once China's economy has slowed down (which it is doing now) and they are in a hard recession...
Chinese businessmen and government delegates will be treated relatively based on their actions. Like a whiny, bully, thieving jerk that had their moment in the sun but totally abused it without class. Do they really think nobody will remember?
When the money dries up, Chinese will be shunned like no other before them.
Life gets better when you can ride the Shanghai index.. Or at least have stock investing skills. I keep trying to tell guys on here take Y50,000 put it in a stock you've studied for a month, learn what a white and yellow line do when they touch, how to understand the red & green graphs. . All these little things can teach you when to buy & sell. Did anyone buy in a stcok or stocks after July 2015? Did you really think those single digit stocks would stay single? Still don't understand? Ok research stock 600556, look at the history graph starting after the big hit in July, it was Y8.58 RMB, today it's Y23.70.. So how much would you have made if you stuck Y100,000 in there? You would have madeY268,000
Robk:
China is always happy to accept foreign investment (meaning money, technology or something) but not when it comes to a foreign influence or physical presence.
And you are right, the best times to invest are after huge hits to the market. This is how the 1% stays the 1%.
They know when to pull all their money out (high)... then the stocks plummet due to paranoia, fear, rumors... whatever... and they are the first to reinvest (low) while the general public is still freaking out.
Stability is regained and up it goes again. And round and round we go. Farmers wonder where the money goes while the businessmen laugh their asses off.
If you have found good suppliers for your business, keep it. It has been really hard to find good factory here.
China is thinking about China which is just the same as every other country.
They don't want to be multicultural other than what they already have.
China went through invasion and not just by the Japanese.
they lost control of their country for years and didn't get it back till1945.
Do you really blame them for not wanting to open up other than on their terms ?
Stiggs:
Yeah it's their country and their right to run it the way they want.
All anyone foreign can really do about it is choose whether or not they want to live there knowing how it is.
earthizen:
Don't let the victims-turned-abusers send you on a guilt trip, this is one of their favorite excuses / tactics in justifying unscrupulous scams and visciousness.
With or without western (UK, France, Germany....etc.) invasion dating back to the 1700s, for 5000+ years Chinese history is filled to the brim with wars. If it is not internal rebellions (a result of dictatorship and corruption) then it is foreign (like the Mongolians) invasion.
Poverty and the Cultural Revolution turned the vast majority into venomous, sleazy psychopaths and masters of psychological (hell, what other weapons did they have before Deng's reform?) warfare.
It doesn't matter what mobile phones they are communicating with (although THEY think using brandnames give them face), it is what is inside their coconut that drives their behaviors. And the whole world can see clearly how they act and behave, young and old.
Shining_brow:
Pretty hard to find a part of the world that hasn't gone through invasions and wars... And, if China thinks it had it pretty bad, then they REALLY need to take a look at the history of Europe and the Middle East!!!
RandomGuy:
It's not okay when they threaten other countries for doing the same thing in limiting or restricting Chinese immigrants or investment. Xi was recently praising globalism and free trade of goods when his own country harasses successful Foreign businesses and has a 20% tax on imports. What you are praising only works if you follow through yourself.
