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Q: Chinese People's Excellent and Unwavering Moral Values

My Chinese teacher just told me a hypothetical story about a group of Chinese people (of various ages, occupations and social positions) who are on a sinking boat with only one life jacket. They have to decide who gets to survive.

 

The point of the story is that, due to Chinese people's sense of duty and respect, all the people on the boat would (resolutely and without hesitation) defer to the older, more venerable people, and forgo their own chances at survival. They all give philosophical explanations for their decisions. The male science graduate, for example, says "I cannot take the life jacket because I am only young, and not as qualified, important to society or deserving of respect as you." So the 80-year-old professor survives because he is the most valuable according to Chinese thinking.

 

I was like "OK fine. Nice story."

 

Sensing my reluctance to engage with it further, my teacher asked me how Western people would determine who gets the life jacket. I told her we'd probably draw straws. We're not a fan of all this theatrical nonsense, mock respect, or saying things we will take back 10 seconds later. I also mentioned that in this situation not all people would act reasonably.

 

She said that, no, the story isn't nonsense. This is how Chinese people WOULD behave.

 

I told her that in real life, Chinese people would be screaming, pulling each other's hair and throwing old women in the sea in order to be the survivor, and that the life jacket would probably get ripped in half in the process.

 

Have any of you heard this story before?

(It sounds like the sort of thing they'd teach in an overseas Confucius Institute - not so convincing for someone who actually lives in China)

 

Do you think this story is designed to “educate” foreign people about Chinese ideology?

 

Does anyone (I’d like to hear from some locals) actually believe Chinese people would act this way?

10 years 15 weeks ago in  Health & Safety - China

 
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Governor

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I would disagree with your teacher just like you did. 

When its about some small things liek giving up ur sit in a bus, then yes, you can see respect to older people in China. but when it comes to some extreme situations and your life is at stake, i doubt so..

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10 years 15 weeks ago
 
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Did I heard that story before => No. I took some Chinese class in a private school in Kunming. The teachers were young people (born in the 80's) who did not try to sell some vision. They tried to teach a language, no messages included.

Stories to educate foreigners => I remember one book, which tried very hard to explain to Westerners (yes, they are one country with one mindset, you didn't know ?) how educated & civilized was Chinese society. Thanks to the writing style and the whole level of rhetoric, the book was a self-parody.

Do I believe the story => I believe actual stories which happened within the current time frame. I see lots of stories of people looking at others in trouble, and not moving one finger. I see that it's so bad, it sparked a debate, the "Good Samaritan Laws", etc. There's how you want to be seen, and how you actually look.

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I know one thing about Chinese people. When faced with death they will kick and scream and the concept of nobility doesn't exist. 

 

Not just Chinese people, but anyone in the world who accelerates towards pedestrians obviously do not care about the lives of others. 

 

The story sounds like it is part of the brainwashy section of the educational system. 

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You must consider the context, Grasshopper. In a group scenario, 'groupthink' prevails...the 'we' overcomes the 'I'. In practice, you are a capitalist running dog who is insinuating that glorious vessels built in the Motherland are fallible and poorly equipped to deal with an emergency! You hurt the feelings of the Chinese people! In a word, "Titanic! Titanic! Titanic!" Jia you and so on.
Add to that the other question Chinese people like asking, "If your mother, wife and child fell off a boat and you could only save one of them, who would you save?" My answer is always ignored, "My mother is already dead, so that's a waste. My son was born a vampire and not merely turned, so he will live forever, so I will save my wife and make her feel guilty forever."

Samsara:

The ship in question was obviously hit by a Japanese missile. And life jackets are scarce because ALL Chinese people are willing to die for their motherland.

10 years 15 weeks ago
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Sinobear:

In that case, I'd introduce the prof and class to the "Hannibal" movie series and explain how this is the ultimate in population control. "Home made" dinner at your apartment after viewing is always an appropriate choice. 

10 years 15 weeks ago
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  No idea what they'd do, probably the same as anyone else. Remember the Titanic? Course you do, Sino just mentioned it. Enough lifeboats for 1178 but little over 700 survived. Twenty boats in the water but only two went back after it sunk. People are selfish, it's human nature.

  I've got a morality riddle though; saw it in a movie with Bruce Willis. Anyone's free to answer it, though if you've heard it before, kindly refrain.

 

  You're in your car and have only one passenger seat. As you pass an unsheltered bus-stop you see an old lady who looks like she's on her last legs, the most beautiful woman in the world, and your best friend. None of them have umbrellas and it's starting to rain. What do you do?

 

  My answer's never changed; i'd speed up, my dinner's in the oven and they're showing Terminator 2 on Sky Digital, but that's just me.

mike695ca:

easy, id do the same thing as the chinese would do, grab my friend and try not to look the rest in the eye.

10 years 15 weeks ago
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Robk:

The noble answer is simple... (yeah I heard this one)... 

 

You give your keys to your best friend to drive the old lady to the hospital while you sit there at the bus stop with the beautiful lady. It sounds noble... but when you think about it... MAYBE your best friend would have got that girl as his future wife. MAYBE the reason why you help your best friend (and the old lady) isn't because of nobility but to remove them from the picture while you mack on the girl. It's all about perspective lol. 

10 years 15 weeks ago
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I would have told your teacher that we was an absolute moron and obviously unfit to teach. Of course its crap and your dear old teacher would murder that old professor in a heart beat for no more than the chance of posting a cool pic on weibo.

But on the other hand, i have witnessed many many generally older western teachers that do what equates to the same thing, where he not only an english teacher, but also a life coach who goal is to pass on his wisdom of how chinese SHOULD behave.

While that teachers points are usually correct, it works out to be the same thing. A teacher who feels he is morally superier.

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when i was in the legion i had to train some chinese troops in 1987, one of the soldiers ask me what would happen if america and china had a war and i told him china would be defeated with out nuclear weapons in about 2 weeks but america would never want the country of china and it has no value, so dont worry about it.

he said we will have the same technology one day and more people to fight, i said it want matter,

if a grenade is dropped in a circle of 20 chinese soldiers and one man has to dive on the grenade to save the other 19, who would dive on the grenade, answer nobody, the chinese army would not take care of the soldiers family and he is the only child.

about 4 or 5 americans out of 20 would be fighting each other to dive on the grenade.

new recruits here dont even get decent clothes and luggage for travel.

if a man is willing to die for your country, no expense is to large for their comfort before the grave.

i happen to think that allowing materialism and liberalism into a country is a great way to defeat a country without firing a shot. most of  the kids here are only interested in themselves, this honor to the old is no longer followed, wait till the factories leave and companies hiring younger people to save cost and fire the older ones and they enjoy age discrimination like i have experienced in america many times.

the biggest irony in the world is how chinese walk and drive like they are the only person in the world, in the most crowded country in the world.

the youngest female on the boat would get the life vest, everyone else can die.

Red_Fox:

Poignant commentary...

10 years 15 weeks ago
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TMaster:

"i happen to think that allowing materialism and liberalism into a country is a great way to defeat a country without firing a shot."

 

That was the plan and it's working great so far.

If you want to engineer the fall of any society, take that list the Christians know as "deadly sins" (or whatever it may be acording to your own beliefs), have a good look, and figure out how to plant the idea that some or all of them are acceptable inside that society. Then, just stand still and wait for it to blow.

10 years 15 weeks ago
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They have certain stories they think subtly prove their superiority, but the stories fail to convince. So far I just play along.

LAR:

Yes, it's called being ethnocentric or having their heads up their... Well, we know. :P

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In everyday life I see very little sign of morality or ethics other than Me, Me, Me. Shopkeepers who try to rip everyone else off, Chinese or foreigner. Drivers who think they are the only person on the road. Even on the buses there are more and more younger people who do not readily give up their seat for someone older, or someone with a small child. People do not want to help anyone else in the case of accidents etcetera for fear of being accused as causing the accident and being asked to cough up stupid amounts of money.  That is just in normal everyday life, I don't really know what China was like in this respect prior to the Cultural Revolution but that certainly put all thoughts of morality in the crapper and they have stayed there ever since. Given the scenario of the sinking vessel I think any group of Chinese would turn into a pack of rabid dogs. They are bad enough just trying to get on the bus but in a situation where it really matters I think they would turn very nasty indeed.

 

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I haven't heard this story before but to know a story like this exists in China isn't surprising at all. I think stories like this are supposed to be designed to educate Chinese people about their ideology but the fact that it is, indeed, designed, shows Chinese ideology to be one of falsification and manipulation; the obligation to believe that this is really how Chinese people would behave comes with the story, and the possibility to contrast real behavior with the story of 'how it was supposed to be done' is another instrument for the powers that be to judge and condemn at will.

 

In Dongbei we are confronted with the story of Lei Feng from time to time. He was posthumously reinvented by Mao as a role model for the uneducated people. Your question made me think of him. A young soldier who died in a freakish kind of traffic accident before his 22nd birthday, he was turned into a myth of philanthropy and political correctness by some people that needed support from an impeccable source and therefore created one. I've heard Chinese people speak of him full of admiration ('of course we common people can never be a saint like him') and others who are well aware that lots of Chinese would love to be Lei Fengs neighbor, but never Lei Feng himself. Meaning, to have an unselfish guy around would be OK, to be unselfish oneself, not OK.

 

The part that I find most enigmatic about both the single life jacket story and Lei Feng is that people here seem to really believe what they're told, parroting it whenever there's an opportunity and even get insulted when you doubt the Holy Truth, which is so clearly a mere product of the propaganda machine. And so clearly contradicting the reality of daily life. It would take lots and lots of drugs and a long series of electroshocks for me to start thinking that way.

Samsara:

Excellent answer.

 

I have the exact same view about Lei god damn Feng. Chinese people accept overwhelmingly obvious fabrications just as readily as any other thing they're told. When it comes to filtering information, they have a special ability to not require evidence or consider the motives of the person telling them. Unless the person telling them is a foreigner, in which case, obviously, filter it out.

 

Like Jesus, Lei Feng became an icon of socialism, selfless action, blind faith and revolutionary spirit after being sacrificed, and with the aid of some rather dubious stories. I guess the important difference is that one was killed because of religious intolerance and the other because Chinese people can't drive. Lei Feng should have become a symbol of road safety.

 

On Learn From Lei Feng Day, March last year, the Chinese Ministry of Stupid Nonsense released a full length movie about Lei Feng in Chinese cinemas. The number of tickets sold: ZERO (which was a world record). Local governments were promptly instructed to organise groups of students to go and see the movie. Actually, I think the CCP has a good business model there: Produce a movie, then make people watch it. Way to go, Communism.

 

10 years 15 weeks ago
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echoing tomcatflyer,,,,,,   has anyone ever looked into that Cultural Revolution thing ???   wow!   f'n Scary !!   I'm such a female reproductive organ!   These MoFo's turned on each other like a Fatty Kim turning on his beloved uncle.  except a million times worse!!   I would suggest researching CR some (funny how google 'cannot open page' when looking CR),,, but it is Beyond depressing...   they are some mean son a guns and I betcha they would be mean again (btw, mean is a super understatement).  Some say CR resulted in up to 30,000,000 deaths.  Soooooo abstract....  but to give u an idea,,, that is darn near the ENTIRE population of present-day Canada! 

yep,,, that teacher is soooo correct,,, they are such nice people..  :-) (sarcasm overload)

ambivalentmace:

i took a position at a university about 2 years ago and they had a private fleet of teacher buses to take you home after school, i rode the bus one day and stopped, started taking public buses with everyone else. about a month later , the boss ask me why i dont take the bus and i told him the university should give the buses to the primary schools because kids are dying in unsafe vehicles all over china trying to get to primary school.

the real reason i did not ride the bus anymore is the guards saluted the teacher buses when they left out the front gate, my girlfriend at the time said, whats wrong with that. i said during the cultural revolution you killed and jailed the teachers for thinking they are better than you, there shit smells better , they are superior, so you got even, what message does a salute from a security guard to a teacher send today, some structure of status that makes one believe they are better than another, seems they did not learn anything from history since they never talk about the cultural revolution. the guard would be the guy i would drink a beer with first anyway, but i bet not one single teacher at the university knew one guards name, let alone have a beer with him. the old saying those who dont learn from history repeat it.

10 years 15 weeks ago
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Hahaha... 

 

I love the delusion Chinese hold over themselves. They would gracefully give the old man the life jacket while the rest just sit there and drown? Very very few humans can keep control of themselves in a situation that threatens their lives. 

 

They would probably throw him in the river first while he demands compensation haha. They can't even get into an elevator without thinking about the people getting out.

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Shifu

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News story today:

 

14 killed in China stampede

 

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/342583/news/world/14-killed-in-china-mosque-stampede-xinhua

 

This is what would happen!

 

Samsara:

Hahaha, wow. Hand out some free food and there is a stampede killing 14 people.

 

But when it comes to the last life jacket they will supposedly be calm and philosophical.

 

Very good timing, CharlieB.

 

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Your absolutely correct in your answer to this "teacher".Just another case of "idealism" vs. "realism".  I would agree that the Chinese seem to have an innate ability to completely ignore the later.no

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reminds me of that blog of yours: chinese self-perception. it was amazingly insightful too.

Samsara:

Thank you, Coineineagh. The blog in question would have included the sinking ship story had my teacher spoken sooner.

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