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Q: Classism not in the dictionary?
Riddle me this one, Batman. I've encountered my share of strange translations and illogical word associations so far, but never as bad as this:
Babelfish:
Successful Translation
Please find your translated text below:
Q:classism (English)
A:Sorry we are unable to translate your request. (Chinese)
I shudder to think what will happen when there's an Unsuccessful Translation.
Bing translator:
classism = 阶级
but...
阶级 = class
... classy!
Google Translate just leaves the word untranslated, which makes it look like a western name amidst Chinese text.
Is there a reason why this word has no translation whatsoever in Chinese? A rhetorical question of course - I know the answer. China is a Communist country, you say? Go figure.
10 years 5 weeks ago in Teaching & Learning - China
I fancy MDBG:
classism 阶级
http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php
I see, MDBG has same result as Bing.
That would explain so much about China (notably, the sense of complete entitlement Chinese people have when looking down on less privileged people).
Part 1
When talking to a Henan person recently, I was told that "all thieves are from Xinjiang". Being slightly annoyed at this generalisation, I said "You do know that all other Chinese people look down on Henan people, right?". My friend said "Yes, it's totally unfair".
I tried to explain the hypocrisy to her, but to no avail.
Chinese people resent being looked down on (just like anyone else does), but see no reason not to do it to others.
One of my colleagues the other day actually said "China does not have social classes".
Me: "Do you think the lifestyle of your leaders is different from the lifestyle of a Chinese farmer?"
Her: ".........yes, of course"
Me: "Is Xi Jinping better educated than a Chinese farmer?"
Her: "Yes"
Me: "Does he have more money and different interests?"
Her: "Yes"
Me: "Does he behave differently?"
Her: "Yes"
Me: "What do you think social class means?"
(silence)
Chinese people are fed bullshit Karl Marx / Mao Ze Dong quotations and theories while in school. They are told that China has no social class, while apparently not being told why influential government members have so much money, expensive interests, and a totally different lifestyle.
Part 2
A topic I'm really interested in is how language shapes thought.
The linguistic tools (words and meanings) people have at their disposal enable and inform their perceptions. The word 'laowai', for example, not only reflects, but creates an idea that everyone outside China belongs in one peripheral category.
A year or two ago I read an essay written by a Chinese-born linguistics and translation lecturer, about the lack of analytical terms in Chinese. While various languages are better equipped in some areas, English has an abundance of analytical terminology (due to its complex ancestry) in comparison to Chinese.
Chinese people's contempt towards anyone less fortunate (and disinterest in self-criticism) isn't just the result of Confucian values and a horrible and competitive socio-political situation.
Because the Chinese language does not have an abundance of analytical tools, self-awareness, sociological analysis, and behavioural analysis are not part of the Chinese mindset.
Chinese people simply don't analyse or question their own behaviour.
louischuahm:
As usual, an extremely well thought out answer. Kudos to you!
coineineagh:
being bilingual british/dutch, i've always found it easier to put my thoughts into words in english. compared to dutch, english just seems more scientific and expressive. i'm sure it's because of the analytical tools you described. as crude as dutch is, the comparison with chinese is even more stark. international influence vs. isolationism. i meant the question largely as a joke anecdote, but thanks for the great reply. personally, i wonder how communist china explained class warfare to its people while keeping classism out of the vocabulary entirely. did the elite in this country have a hand in preventing any persecution of the most powerful elite?
expatlife26:
Great answer...I agree 100%. I think that can be explained by a real lack of abstract thinking skills and I guess also a lack of empathy. Things are bad only when they happen to you. Those two factors go hand in hand.
Me: "Don't you hate being looked down?"
Them: "Yes it is so unfair, we should really be looking down on the Xinjiang people!"
Me: "But what if you were a Xinjiang person, how would you feel about that?"
Them: "I don't care i'm not a Xinjiang person"
Also interesting point Coineinagh, it seems like the consensus is that scientific analysis is best done in German or English for those very reasons. I think of language as kind of like the operating system for the brain. You can have equivalent hardware, but be better or worse at specific tasks based on the OS your brain is thinking in.
coineineagh:
Germany has a history of scientific endeavour, so it is traditionally associated with hard sciences. i'm uncertain if that's resulted in it developing accurate linguistic tools. but when it comes to expressiveness, the harsh-sounding words seem too longwinded to effect the same communication as english. but my experience with German is limited. and just to nitpick: the examples mentioned so far are technically regional discrimination. with classism, i'm thinking more of 'modern' city folk vs old-fashioned countryside farmers. or doctors > traders. government > private business. rich > the rest. and so on
It is exactly what happens when you use Google Translate to translate "classism" into Dutch, German and many other languages. Google leaves the word untranslated. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with China or the Chinese language.
The Chinese term you are looking for by the way is 阶级歧视. Entire books have been written about it in Chinese.
coineineagh:
@roflmao, i couldn't use google translate on my phone, but using Bing, Dutch gave me classisme, German gave me Klassismus, and French gave me classisme. Chinese still gives me nothing. but if your given translation is true, then it's a failure in translation software, not language. we stand corrected for jumping to conclusions too quickly in this regard. i'd be very surprised if China DIDN'T have a word for a phenomenon so important for the government's stated philosophy. something would be seriously wrong if they didn't have a word for it. glad to hear they do.
