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Q: Crimea has decided, now what?
The people of Crimea has decided overwhelmingly that they want to rejoin The Russian Federation. The EU and US claim that the referendum was illegal and at some point indicated that it was carried out under duress (armed Russian troops in Crimea). Watching the first reports after the vote counting, many people were celebrating on the Crimean streets. It does not appear that they were forced to vote to rejoin Russia. If the people have spoken, then their wishes should be respected. Isn't that democracy in action? What are your thoughts?
No, they weren't forced.
That part of Ukraine is filled with Russians, who speak different language and have a bit different culture than Ukrainians.
After 2nd WW, coms mixed all different nations under one system, as USSR and Yugoslavia, and tried to make one nation, mixed with all people and different backgrounds.
When coms dissolved, problems arised. West (US) was expecting to close Russian exit to the Black Sea, if Ukraine would be independed (and join to 'W. Disney'). Impossible!
Russians didn't make mistake, when allowed Ukraine to make few free decisions, but if Ukraine wants to join NATO, Crimea will be Russian. There's no way around it!
Most analysts recognized that, but West (US) didn't, and support neo-nazis in Ukraine. LMAO!
All latest matter in Ukraine was US reply to Russians for 'Up-yours' asylum IMO, but US (will) get kicked again!.
icnif77:
Next: 'West will start back pedaling': 'serious' sanctions aren't possible, because 'EU live of Russia, and get all their heat (gas) from Russians', and Ukraine is just 'pawn in a kids game'.
US behave like a person, somebody spitted on his shoes. He wouldn't wipe it off, and continue walking. He wants to 'try on' culprit's shoes. Ridiculous!
Quote: “The country is crossed by a network of Soviet-era pipelines that carry Russian natural gas to many European Union member states and beyond; more than a quarter of the EU’s total gas needs were met by Russian gas, and some 80% of it came via Ukrainian pipelines,” explained The Guardian.
Obama is such a pussy. That's all I have to say.
icnif77:
'Don't tell anything negative about our pres., or else 'two down for now'.....'
I'll get some 'skiing' after this comment, too.
icnif77:
@Scan: He got 2 downs, certainly not from me!I up him to 'counterattack'
US voters
I'm using war lingo: 'counterattack' LOL
icnif77:
O. shouldn't sponsor 'orange revolution', or whatever color is called! Today's (US) news is only PR. US doesn't want war! Why it would want war? Stupid, same as Afgan., Irak, and another recent wars.
I see it as 'US answer to P. for latest asylum!' There's no other logical explanation US is 'involved' in anything in Ukraine.
'Up-yours' took loads, and US is pissed at P. because he prevented them to get him.
Look how US reacted, when he landed in HK! Why US made such a big deal? Certainly not because, 'Up-yours' break the Law, and need to be brought to justice'
Hulk:
Obama should stand up to Russia and kick the shit out of Putin. Won't happen, though. Obama is the most horribly effeminate president this side of FDR, and Putin is a manly man.
I wish we had a manly president.
icnif77:
@Hulk: 'Your' war is loosing game! Can Russians get Florida from Cuban bases?
Now What? Now, People must learn from this that it is not always good to poke nose in other's matter..It can backfire on you..
voltasingh:
On the lighter side.. Now What? Now, Foreigners in Crimea have to go Russian Embassy to change their visa...
Putin reinforced his "tough guy" image back in Russia and abroad, he is the main winner here. I personally don't like him and his values, but at least he is smart and got the guts to do what he thinks is right. Europe leaders, well, the reinforced their image of "all talk, no action and no courage". They might have values I feel closer to mine, but they are not super clear about what they stand for, nor act to turn their claims into realities. Great arguments you give there to your hater club, Europe. USA, WTF, none of your business, go fix your economy and your wealth disparity.
For that particular affair, it seems not as simple as both side claimed it. Crimea population is quite special, ie. lots of Russian-included people, for historical reasons. Also, lots of Russian interests there. For the Crimean and Ukrainian people, it might be better like this, although their daily life will be mostly same-same. For those who were all like "OMG IT'S WORLD WAR III", lol.
For the U.S side. We can do nothing, although we handed Ukraine a blank paycheck back after NATO was formed and under article#5 we promised to be there to help stop situation like this, meaning Russia is willing to start WWIII, but they know the U.S is financially not able to do this with our current economy condition, So hat tip to Putin for make this move at the U.S weakest time.
So all we can do is arm Ukraine with some kind of weapon that scares Putin to withdraw, making both sides even again, but results in cutting off all gas to Ukraine that is supplied by Russia. The U.S can temporally supply gas needs but not for long, we don't have a resource like this, only Russia does.
So Putin has a very firm grip on this situation. Obama can only do sanctions, but that still risks the gas needed for Ukraine.
Only a WWIII can change things, I hope it never happens, but history has shown that we never know.
I think a natural next step would be to look around the globe and see if there are any other regions that would like to dislodge from their current regime, either for independence or to join another administration.
Note. The events in Crimea aren't that unique. Think back just a few years, South Sudan got independence from Sudan and made the youngest nation on the planet.
icnif77:
Or Kosovo in ex-Yu! If you look at Russian position today on Ukraine, and exchange it with Serbs and Kosovo (1991-2002), it is very similar: Serbs have graves in Kosovo from 16/17th Century from the battle against Ottoman Imperium (Turks/Muslims), when they saved EU (Serbs claim!). Serbs claims victory, however there's no proof who won the battle. All died!
But Kosovo is very important to Serbs today!
'W.Disney' stopped Serbs, and gave Kosovo authonomy. Ukraine is in the same position today: Russian (Serbs) and Crimea (Kosovo).
Big difference is 'Serbs had to be stopped, because of the humanitarian reasons. Serbs behaved in 1991-2002 Balkan war as Nazis in 2nd WW: they extinguish anybody, who's not Serb: Albanians (Kosovo), Muslims (Bosnia), Croats, Gypsies. Around 100 000 casualties by the end of the Balkan war in 2002, and in the middle of EU.
So, nobody could say anything against US (W.Disney) for intervention in Kosovo, but under UN Law, Nato did the same in Kosovo and Serbia (2002), as Russians are doing today in Ukraine. Add-it: 'Russians & Serbs share the same religion'
The UN, often led by the US, has always been the champion for the weak, like Somalia, Kuwait, etc. In Crimea's case, however, most of them want to rejoin Russia and demonstrated it. Doesn't this make it awkward for the UN and US? There isn't any base from which they can declare that some injustice was done to the people. It would appear that the US has lost it's initiative here. It just makes them look silly.
Shining_brow:
Way cool! One of us just teleported into an alternate reality/timeline!
In my timeline, the UN/US has almost never "championed" the weak... they've said a lot of things, and occasionally the UN has involved itself with 'peacekeeping forces' - but the US has only ever sent in troops for its own, non-egalitarian agendas. (ie, invaded a country, and made 'deals' with politicians etc to keep the money flowing one way, and the resources flowing the other!)
louischuahm:
Shining@ that's exactly what I said in my other posts. What are US's objectives? Are they purely economic or otherwise.
ironman510:
Agreed the U.S looks like a police officer handing Putin a parking ticket, anyone can walk away from a parking ticket and Russia is already miles away..
What was on the ballot ?
Did it have a "We'd like to be independent from both Ukraine and Russia but closely affiliated with Russia" option ?
louischuahm:
I think the Crimeans want to rejoin the Russian Federation probably as a vassal state. The benefits in joining the EU now isn't looking great at the moment although it is recovering. It's brings to mind whether the US's objective is purely economic or standing up for the weak.
icnif77:
Nobody is weak in Crimea! Russians protect (majority = 'votes were 97% for Ruski') of Russians who are living there. And Russians will take more of Ukraine, I'm just not sure, how many Russians live elsewhere in Ukraine.
'1991': 'Wherever Serbians live, it's Serbian territory'.
However Serbs went 'overboard', what Russians are not doing today!
'Do you think, this is (West reaction in Ukraine) reprisal for 'Up-yours' asylum?' Q on the teli.
Chinese Prof. Wang and Tao Wenzhao, research fellow: 'Yes! That's the reason for tensions between P. and West!'
P. had speech in Duma: 'Crimea is independend state, and all nationalities will be respected: Russians, Ukrainian and Tartars!'
Comment on P. speech was: 'That was the message to the World'.
Ukraine is bankrupt, and Russians won't help Ukraine. Rusians will wait till West starts paying Ukraine's debt! LOL
O. said, West will never acknowledge independence of Crimea, and start imposing sanctions against Russia!
O. is laughable! He looks like president of a sport's club!
However, I'm thinking US (West) is hiding something. I'm afraid, matter will be used for something stupid from the US side.
Teli: 'China doesn't support independence of Ukraine! Sino Russian ties are very strong ('reading files in the shade together'). China doesn't support West sanctions against Russia!'
Chinese position is very diplomatic: 'buddies with West' and 'unbreakable ties with Russia'.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/double-standards-and-hypocrisy-where-are-th...
Double Standards and Hypocrisy: Where are the Sanctions against the West?
As the US and the European Union impose sanctions on 21 officials from Russia and Ukraine for helping the people of Crimea to make a democratic choice to become a part of the Russian Federation, one specific question arises – where were all the sanctions when the West was carrying out genuinely illegal wars and interventions that resulted in destruction and thousands of innocent civilians being killed?
Unlike Russia, which has not fired one single shot in Crimea, nor has been seen as an invader by the people of Crimea, the West, primarily the United States and NATO countries, have caused havoc and destruction all over the world with little or no repercussions. Below are just three examples which warrant toughest sanctions to be imposed on Western powers.
http://www.debka.com/article/23773/After-a-harshly-anti-American-speech-...
After a harshly anti-American speech to Russian parliament, Putin signed the Crimean treaty
He complained Moscow had sought dialogue with the West, but was “cheated all the time.” When he accused America of practicing the “law of the strong,” he was cheered by the packed lower house of the Russian parliament.
This was the most acrimonious speech heard from any Russian leader since the end of WWII in 1945.
Putin asked why Kosovo’s legitimacy in breaking away from Serbia was recognized by the UN and US and Crimea’s referendum deemed illegal. This is a double standard, he said. In 1999 Western troops invaded Serbia to separate Kosovo and NATO fired rockets into Belgrade, whereas Crimea saw no military showdown and not a single person died, he boasted.
So why was Western military action in defense of Kosovo’s rights legitimate, while Russia was accused of aggression in support of Crimea?
The Russian leader then delivered an unprecedented diatribe against the United States, accusing Washington of flouting the UN and Security Council in pursuit of its own interests, breaking international laws by bombing Iraq and Afghanistan, and fostering an “Arab spring” which turned into an “Arab winter.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/pro-russian-forces-break-into-ukrain...
Ukraine says it is preparing to leave Crimea
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/19/us-russia-estonia-idUSBREA2I1J...
Moscow signals concern for Russians in Estonia
P. won't stop…..Heated exchange between S. Powell and Churkin in UN:
Powell: 'Russian behave as thief in Crimea……'
Churkin: 'USA rep. is using tabloid talk at UN…...'
How legitimate were the elections? Any UN observers? If it was legit not much anyone could do. This is kind of holding elections in Tibet where thousands of Chinese were relocated and outnumber the amount of Tibetans who even know what an election is.
icnif77:
If you research Ukraine and Crimea especially, you'll see that Ukraine is loaded with Russians. Elections weren't rigged, IMO! Many Ukrainians have Russian as Native language.
It was stupid move on the West side with 'Ukraine joining W. Disney', and all manure O. provoked in Ukraine this year.
That's impossible!
Ukraine (without Crimea) is bankrupt! Russians won't pay U. bills! West must do that! Ridiculous!
It appears that the referendum wasn't rigged. Although Putin is hard headed, I don't think he'll pull any stunts.
icnif77:
P.'s reply to the West on installing missile shield on Russian borders. Now, with the latest news about 'Russians in Estonia' is like Q to O.: 'So, what you'll do now?'
It looks, P. 'is sick of O. international policies, and involvements in any area around the world'. There's news, about P. is saying 'O.'s giving up on Syria by closing US Embassy in Damascus'.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/19/us-syria-crisis-russia-usa-idUSBREA2I0RY20140319
Russians (China) will take over on Syria, me thinks.
