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Posts: 49

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Q: Do you find yourself becoming less tolerant of Chinese behavior the longer you stay?

Over the years my patience has run dry. The pushing and shoving at bus stops, the cutting in line, the shop attendant continuously trying to scam me out of a few extra kuai. During the first year in China, my reaction to some of their behavior was one of acceptance of cultural differences, at times humorous and simultaneously shocking. However, after the years, now I just get increasingly angry when that guy decides he doesn't need to line up. Is the development of patience a patient act in itself, or is patience something that can be lost? Should I go home or do I just need a vacation?

11 years 36 weeks ago in  Culture - China

 
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Perhaps just a vacation. You know your own limits, and it is different for different people. But I do agree with you. Having been here three years (a short time, by some accounts), I've found myself waxing and waning between extreme patience and on the other end, extreme agitation at some of the things that have happen.

 

The non-queing still drives me crazy, and speaking of driving, that makes me crazier. Some days I handle it better than others, but mainly, now, I just drive like everyone else, doing some of the same stupid things, so I guess I'm just as bad. That being said, one has to drive like everyone else or you would be hit in a heartbeat.

 

The common things (public urination, spitting, etc.) don't even phase me anymore. I just step around the puddles and continue on. If someone tries to scam me, I instantly walk away. Sale lost, period.

 

All in all, I do try to look at the bright side of things. When I am having a particularly BCD, I make it a point to try and get away somewhere for a while by myself; away from the crowds, the culture, and the sheer difference of it all.

 

Take a break, recharge, and try it "one more time." It is when you find yourself in a constant state of aggravation that you begin to worry. Then, it may be time for a permanent change.

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11 years 36 weeks ago
 
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I'm 5 years in now,I find life more difficult the longer I stay.I have lived in over 22 countries during my life,some rather dodgy places too in my time in the military,this takes the biscuit.I get fed up with the attitude,arrogance and generally the lies and excuses why people can behave the way they do,this country has an excuse for everything I find.My Chinese wife recently came back to the U.K with me to see my parents,she was so shocked to see people speaking to her,she assumed all people hated Chinese(Thanks CCTV1) She said this is how life is suppose to be and I don't even feel like a foreigner,something I don't have the pleasure of living in China! So we are going home to live,Thanks China its been a trip but if this is developing,world leader status,God help us all. Carpe Diem.

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11 years 36 weeks ago
 
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I think I'm in the acceptance stage. When I first got here I was very angry very often, especially when I was driving (or being driven in those days). I even got into a few fights when my anger over spilt. Now, I just, (mostly) shrug and carry on, although the driving still gets to me.

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  No, definitely more so. It's taken time to settle but i've learnt to phase out and not focus on things that irritate me. The staring thing, lack of queues and using the roads used to get to me. Now i'm pretty much fine with it. I'm kind of amazed by the lack of agro between people actually. Back home if people drove the way they do here there'd be bloody murders. As for queues, I assumed it was big jumping in front of little, but the other day I saw this real big fella about to pay for something and, wham, straight in front of him jumps this little guy. Truly surprised me that shorty left there balls intact but all was sweet. Big man didn't say a word. Then maybe i'm just a sycophant. Truth is though, I believe we model the world by our perception of it, so I just try and look for the positive. Louis Armstrong wouldn't have sold so many records if he'd sung "And I think to myself, what a big blue and green ball of shit." So my two cents worth is to walk on the sunny side of the street, and if anyone DOES step up and get properly in your face, kick 'em in the happysacks.

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My tolerance has diminished. As they say, the new has worn off. All the standard irritants are part of it (general chaotic behavior in public, from walking, to driving, to going through the metro, to shopping, to yelling soooo loudly in that coarse mono-syllabic grunting fashion, yes, to every aspect of Chinese public life, then the disgusting unsanitary behavior, littering so casually, streets broken, garbage everywhere, and the public urination, to the worst of all, that absolutely Bizarre behavior of making that Horrible coughing noise and spitting their guts out in public!  wow, absolutely neanderthalistic (my apologies to the Neanderthals), but the thing that finally drove me over the edge was the attitude. No one seems to give a fcuk about any of it. Truly can act as disgusting as you like and no one will even blink an eye.

I also have lived in many countries and spent time in many more. Poor countries as well as rich. China is a trip.

 

(5+ years)

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11 years 36 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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I am like a newbie compared to most of you, only 3.5 years. But it as most of you say. I was intrigued by the differences the first year, and the minor annoyances of being cheated didnt change my perception much, just seems like minor annoyances.

 

But after the while, and with the consistency of it, as well as my language skills improving, all those things have become much more intolerable.

 

The reason I stayed in china after my first brief teaching job was because I spent several weeks riding through the countryside/mountains. It was awesome to meet the people from those small places. They looked at me like "WTF" but they treated me like a welcomed guest, not like some novelty item. I always got the sense that they just wanted me to enjoy my time and leave with a good impression.

 

In cities it is different. They dont make you feel welcome the same way. They want to be your "friend", which I know they mean in a welcoming way. But in affect, it makes you feel like more of an outsider that they want to know for networking/face benefits. Getting that approach is grating  because they are only asking because you are foreign, and there is no common ground (the common ground is that you are different).

 

The cheating thing gets easier because you learn the ropes, the behaviors we are arent used to soon become commonplace and can easily be brushed off. But after settling into a place, you kind of just want some normalcy and to go about your daily life like the rest.... but then the constant reminder from all those that dont understand that foreigners are just normal people becomes intolerable.

 

And once all of that comes to pass in your head, every time some imbecile on a motorbike taxi screams laowai, and then laughs and tells his friends that you dont understand all his remarks, makes your really f*ing hate them and leaves your cursing them and the ignorance you get all day from other minor annoyances

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Shifu

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When people first come hear and here something like "mei ban fa" ok so there's nothing that can be done fair enough.

 

When you realise that infact in most cases something can be done these 3 words can become quite annoying! The fact you have to do something about it in order to get your way.

 

Take a simple example, I was in coffee shop and wanted 2 Irish coffees. But they could not do this, I asked why and they told me the machine cannot handle 2. Then I said ok make 1 at a time. Eventually the truth came out that it is because they only had 1 Irish coffee glass. I told them to use another glass that I had pointed out and eventually after a long exchange they decided to do that. An impossible 2 glasses of Irish coffee turned into 2 enjoyable Irish coffees.

Bona:

hahahahaha, this is a nice one. It's really hard to understand why a lot of Chinese resort to the 'mei ban fa' line each time they face a situation that requires them to manipulate the present circumstances to get around a problem. And in most cases, when you try to offer alternatives, a lot of Chinese take you as a nuisance, an uncultured lao wai.

11 years 36 weeks ago
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I find the not listening or not thinking about what I want or how to do it really annoying.. dharms coffee is just one example. It's like many people do not think outside the box. I spent an entire day trying to get a larger amount of money out of the bank, no matter who I asked they said use ATM. Eventually I got my way, they had to send a fax to get approval..

I loose it, have no patient for stupidty.

mArtiAn:

  Gotta have patient, Ted. If you loose it you only appear stupid.

11 years 36 weeks ago
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The only option is to be tolerant of their behavior. Otherwise one would be driven to near insanity analyzing all of the things that could be improved. Granted, I've only lived here for a year and it took some getting used to. I feel you'd become more tolerant over time. It's all apart of the adventure of living in China. 

Chaching:

Mr. Denver, Denver is my hometown too! Yeah. Denver changed a lot since 2008? How you doing? My brother is a priest in Denver BTW, and he said that it was good that the internet offered forums for Ex-pats to vent their frustrations. Because otherwise we would probably lose ourselves in isolation, due to the long periods of time away from home. I guess it is very similar to an astronauts feelings of isolation. China is not deep space, but it is also not Denver. Do you miss the mountains? I do. Every year we used to go to Lost Creek Wilderness and hike the 30 mile loop. I haven't been back in the wilderness for a long time. I just want to stretch my arms out without bumping into some TB infested Chinese ignorant bastard that smells like shit (literally). I know, I'm terrible. I just don't know what my "comfort zone" really is any more. Actually, I'm okay with the peasant class in China. The peasants are actually real people. Have you talked with them? They don't bother me as much as the other Chinese guys! You know the ones I'm talking about. They are extremely loud talking on their cell phones, they carry the "murse" (man- purse), they wear the cheap shoes and have just enough money to buy themselves a pair of fake glasses to wear. They are hungry for more, but too lazy to confront you. Those guys are the snakes! They have just enough venom to "talk shit" about you on the subway to their friends, thinking that you don't speak Chinese. They are too feminine and too cowardly to fight anyone other than their demanding wife. They are the kiss-ass at their workplace. This is your typical Chinese middle class. Actually, your typical middle-class anywhere. Ha! Yeah. I'm probably going to go to jail in China someday for beatin the shit out of some poor guy. Pray for me!

11 years 36 weeks ago
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DenverWookiee:

Chaching! Good to hear from another member of the Mile High City in the Far East. I'd say that one of the main differences since 2008 is that the nickname "Mile High City" has become even more literal than it once was. Denver now has more MMJ dispensaries than Starbucks. I like to spend my free time riding random busses to the outskirts of Xi'an where I have encountered some amazing and genuine people. I agree with you that the lower class seems to be much more friendly than some of the people I've encountered on weekends downtown. But you can find those same type of people in LoDo after a Rockies game. Hilarious and spot on description of those type of folks! Keep them coming!

11 years 36 weeks ago
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Chaching:

True about the Rockies games, unless you get your teeth kicked in by a cop! Xi'an is nice. A lot of culture there. My wife's Ex was last spotted in Xi'an, so she doesn't really like to travel there. Chinese thing or wife thing? Actually, if I had a choice I would probably move to Xi'an. The girls in Chengdu are nice to look at, but Xi'an seems more Colorado weather friendly. I like the mild summers and cultural heritage.

11 years 36 weeks ago
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I notice that when laowis get together they vent their anger about queue jumping, arkkkkking and spitting, public urination, yelling, nose clearing etc etc etc etc etc

 

 

If you want to read the definitive description of many Chinese people's behaviour try Riding the Iron Rooster by Paul Theroux

 

here's a snippet about spitting

 

Chinese Spitting

Riding the Iron Rooster – Paul Theroux P 361

 

The Tian Hu (a boat) was full of spitters – something to do with sea air, perhaps, and the wish to have a good hawk. I had resolved that I was going to ignore them, but it was on this ship that I realised what had been bothering me about Chinese spitting. It was simply, that they were not very good at it.

 

They spat all the time. They cleared their throats so loudly that they could drown conversation – they could sound like a Roto-Rooter or someone clearing a storm drain, or the last gallon of water leaving a Jacuzzi. With their cheeks alone they made the suctioning; hhggaarrkh! And then they grinned and positioned their teeth, and they leaned. You expected them to propel it five yards, like a Laramie stockman spitting over a fence. But no, they never gave it any force. They seldom spat more than a few inches from where they stood. They did not spit out, they spat down … But after the snarking, the mucus streaking thru their passages with a smack, Chinese spitting was always something of an anticlimax.

 

OK I feel better now, I've vented.

 

 

Krishnamurti said Observation without judgement is to aspired to. Can I do it?  I'll try not to judge. I'll think about the amazing and charming kindnesses I've been shown sometimes. Can I do it?

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11 years 36 weeks ago
 
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After 6 years, I couldn't take any more of all that. That's why I left.

It got to me so bad, I'm surprised when people behave in a polite way now.

I am glad I didn't stay, because I'm not sure I could have taken any more of... well, we know what's wrong, we all mention the same things.

Despite all the apartment finding, furniture moving, and the 1200km road trip to pick up that fucking furniture that I had to bring to the 3rd floor without elevator and with hemorroids, going back to France feels GREAT so far, even though I still don't have electricity in my new house, which means that I have to stay at my family's for a bit, who has always despised me since my birth for some reason.

Also, I left my friends, my girlfriend, my parents, my band, my "fame" (as in, I'm a total nobody here) and my puppy dog behind (who is with the aforementioned girlfriend, don't worry), but I'm STILL glad I left.

I was the happiest man on earth the day I moved in China, my dream of living in Asia finally coming true, all innocent and farting rainbows. I left as a cold, bitter, angry man. That's how much they managed to get on the nerves of what used to be a friendly, patient man.

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