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Q: Do you get to have many meaningful conversations?
Say, on a monthly basis, how often would you have a meaningful conversation with anyone?
And during these conversations, assuming you do actually get to have one, do you get satisfaction? Do you feel sated?
Or do you need better/more?
It's not easy where I live. I have a small number of Chinese friends who have passable English but their ability to address much more than Zhongguo is number one is limited, as is their ability to discuss anything outside of China.
Do you ever find you're using ECC, or similar, in lieu of a real conversation?
Most meaningful stuff is when I teach. There's little room for cultural learning and science, but I sneak it in anyway. I'll ask questions to the class, which I later answer correctly: What happens when you cook milk? Why should we shake hands with the right hand? Why do we like fatty, sweet and other unhealthy foods so much? Why are kuaizi called chopsticks in English? Why do animals hunt at night? If you take a bite of an onion and don't like it, does that mean you don't like onions? Why?
Why-questions give a mixed reacton in the classroom. Most kids have been conditioned to hate questions without easy rote-learned answers, but once the kids are used to it, some get enthusiastic. They realize they can satisfy their playful exploration by thinking and asking questions, not only by gratifying strokes and narcissistic supply.
indalkar:
I feel silly to admit it but your questions got me curious. Why are those called chopsticks? You can’t use them to chop anything, and I am told you should not use them to poke or cut food. And why do we like fatty, sweet and other unhealthy foods so much? 
coineineagh:
fat and sugar have high calories, giving energy. a holdover from our past as hunter-gatherers, when calories were scarce. chopsticks are based on Pidgin English, chop is a misheard/mispronounced form of kuai. perhaps the old expression "chop-chop" rings a bell.
I have a few Chinese friends with very good English, but if I want decent conversation I hang out with my foreign friends. Nothing against my Chinese friends, but their view of the world is ... well, very ..limited. Also, they mostly have no idea what is happening in the news and couldn't care less anyway and there are very few common interests to talk about because they really don't seem to have any hobbies or interests other than shopping, chatting on QQ etc.
That's not to say I don't enjoy their company, I just don't expect meaningful conversations from them.
timjames:
Ok, so they're boring, but you still enjoy their company.....underwear models?lol
Most meaningful stuff is when I teach. There's little room for cultural learning and science, but I sneak it in anyway. I'll ask questions to the class, which I later answer correctly: What happens when you cook milk? Why should we shake hands with the right hand? Why do we like fatty, sweet and other unhealthy foods so much? Why are kuaizi called chopsticks in English? Why do animals hunt at night? If you take a bite of an onion and don't like it, does that mean you don't like onions? Why?
Why-questions give a mixed reacton in the classroom. Most kids have been conditioned to hate questions without easy rote-learned answers, but once the kids are used to it, some get enthusiastic. They realize they can satisfy their playful exploration by thinking and asking questions, not only by gratifying strokes and narcissistic supply.
indalkar:
I feel silly to admit it but your questions got me curious. Why are those called chopsticks? You can’t use them to chop anything, and I am told you should not use them to poke or cut food. And why do we like fatty, sweet and other unhealthy foods so much?
coineineagh:
fat and sugar have high calories, giving energy. a holdover from our past as hunter-gatherers, when calories were scarce. chopsticks are based on Pidgin English, chop is a misheard/mispronounced form of kuai. perhaps the old expression "chop-chop" rings a bell.
Define meaningful. Is it discussing how to achieve world peace or how to brew an outstanding cup of coffee? Both can be meaningful in the right context.
royceH:
Sure! Either topic would provide enough ammo to have an interesting discussion. And neither would be possible with any Chinese person I've ever met.
But not just those topics.....Any topic seems beyond possible.
No, most of the people I work with seem very small minded. They only talk about food,clothes, and constantly look at themselves in the mirror. Most of my conversations are redundant. They stare at wexin all day which is just pictures of food,clothes, and pictures of themselves of course with the stupid "peace sign" that no person in this country can resist doing when it's time to take a picture. Most of them do not even know what holding up those two fingers means. ask them sometime, you can tell they've never even thought about it.
Eorthisio:
In fact the V sign with fingers comes from Japan, and yes it means Victory, it is unrelated with the "peace" hippie sign, it was originally done by a Japanese skier when he won some tournament at Sapporo winter Olympics in 1972. Japanese people started doing it then the rest of Asia.
Of course Chinese will deny any connection with this event and claim that they invented it. Then they will claim to hate Japanese while in fact they dream to resemble them.
royceH:
My recalled exposure to the 'V' sign was from before 1972. Namely, Winston Churchill during WW2 and Jimi Hendrix in about '68. The differentiation between 'victory' and 'peace' was whether the gesture was played forehand or backhand.
As for asking why do they insist on doing it all over the place here in China these days, the answer I always get is the same one they give for any question they are asked. Har!
coineineagh:
Fronthanded V sign is from the English-French 100-years war. English Longbowmen were a serious danger to the French. But the French, civilized and humanitarian as they have tried to be throughout history, decided to let captured Longbowmen return home. They cut off their left index and middle fingers to prevent them from ever drawing a bow normally, wasting decades of bow training, and making them useless to the English armies. They could go home to their farms. Anyway, before a siege of French holdings, some Longbowmen would walk up and present their two fingers, as both a threat and a challenge. Traditional Brits still use it instead of flipping the bird.
hi2u:
@coineineagh, I learned a different version of that story in school. I learned that the French cut off all of the fingers of the bowmen except for the middle finger, and so the French would give the middle finger as an insult. And that was the origin of the middle finger.
coineineagh:
@hi2u: you probably heard a misremembered recollection. i don't know the origin of the middle finger insult, but it must be unrelated. Technically the thumb would be the best finger to cut off, but without an opposable digit, farm labour would be near impossible. The 2 fingers were cut off to spare bowmen's lives compassionately. If there really were cases of 4 fingers being cut off, it escalates things.
gouxiong:
At least Jean de Wavrin Chronicle mentions that 3 fingers would be cut (as three fingers were required for operating Middle Age longbow) from English long bowmen indicating that the story was probably made up ...
There are V signs found in ancient Greece but not clear what they really represented.
I assume that the origin of the gesture is lost in the history.
I just talk to myself, a LOT!! little satisfaction and seldom does it ever make much sense.
xinyuren:
me too! The longer I'm here, the more and more I talk to myself to stay sane.
royceH:
And me three. But lately I've noticed that I'm tending to repeat myself. Over and over. So I've found it more therapeutic to write it down. It kinda goes like this....
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy,
And so on, like that.
I've written quite a lot of this stuff now and don't anticipate it being finished until I get the fark outa here!
BHGAL:
there are lots of things for me to do. I don't work. wife does work. so I got all day to explore and enjoy. weather down here is always good, and yes I like singing in the rain. stupidest thing I have done is the satellite TV, I watch too much TV. I could be strolling on the beach or playing pool and enjoying the hot tubs at the spa ( a membership I let lapse). people watching. last time I went downtown there was some guy strolling his camel through town, first one I ever saw here. Mother-in-law invites me to her morning dance stuff regularly. I have been and it is fun, but DANGER, not all the participants are old mother-in-laws.
rght now... I spend morning watching and betting on NHL hockey playoffs - 7 am to 1pm.
Yeah, sometimes with my boss... but he usually talks about corruption in the country and ways to get ahead is good contacts, how the Chinese culture is different then other cultures (this usually I share with him) and stuff like that... I feel at this point it is meaningful for me..
Otherwise yes like everybody else said, usually they have no idea what is happening in the news around the world. all they seems to know in GK is China is the center of the world, white skin is beautiful, Americans English is the best, Japan is evil and most imp money is everything... I wonder if geography was ever taught here?
If money, food and shopping are meaningful topics then yes I do. Most people here have not been taught critical thinking so they can't hold any meaningful conversation since you need to express your own thoughts and use your brain, it's that easy. Chinese are good sheep. or drones, but terrible thinkers.
Don't solely depending on others. You can start a meaningful conversation yourself, instead of wondering why there's no meaningful conversation. I'm glad you met me here at such a young age. 
I think that finding a partner with whom you can have "intellectualy satisfying" conversation is difficult everywhere.
It's not enough to find a smart partner, the partner should be also tolerant to the different oppinions and willing to discuss the issue.
Such people are hard to find...
Coming back to your question, yes I have sometimes very reasonable discussion. The most commonly it's about the motivation behind some behavior which seems at the first glance totally irrational. Sometimes I then learn surprising facts which change my oppinion.
No, I'm so bored. I don't care how many apartments you have. I don't care about your phone. Even if a local brings up an interesting topic, inevitably it's only shallow and unsubstantial. There's just not much awareness of the outside world. Too many times I've embarked on a conversation that ends up filled with slogans and me looking for an exit.
dongbeiren:
So you don't like discussing how much apartments are per square meter in different parts of town? You don't like discussing how much a guy's watch costs? What's wrong with you?
Garbo:
They all insist that people in the countryside are rich even though they owe a lot of banks.
There are another 2 full time foreigners where I live.....and we have two western style bars that sell draught beer 
We have lots of deep conversations over a few beers.
I have a very typical Chinese friend who chases after money, but surprisingly we have excellent conversations. Sometimes he'll invite me out to dinner and drinks with his colleagues (he's their leader in some way), but the excellent conversations don't happen until after his colleagues leave, and the reason he admitted is because he needs to maintain a strong face for his subordinates.
Not often to be honest.
I had a decent one last night at the bar with a dude from South Africa. But usually speaking with Chinese people won't do it.
It is not because of language problems, it is just because most Chinese are just not very deep and meaningful people. And that's not picking on Chinese... actually I would say 60-70% of the foreigners in this city are the same.
Just kind of in a haze at most times.
Very rarely, but I do want to think that the problem is related to the language. I assume that between them they do have some very deep and meaningful conversations.
Or perhaps if I made a bigger effort and kept trying it would be possible to have more of them, but unfortunately I don't try it much lately.
psiconauta_retro:
I thought that I was the problem so I decided to honestly try to have a deep, meaningful conversation. I failed horribly. I did my best so I don't feel bad about that, and it does help me feel better that the problem is on my side.
I am not sure if the problem is related to language (I think it is not) or just to different interest or ideologies.
DrMonkey:
The people here who are very fluent in Mandarin says that understanding the language make that feeling worse : the emperor is naked... The education system and society in general leave very little space of personal development (the "should study for the gaokao, anything else is a waste of time unless it gives a lot of face (piano lesson for example)" routine)
Eorthisio:
I have HSK level 5, soon to pass level 6, I can't seem to have any meaningful conversation with local Mainland CHinese, I have with Hongkers, Taiwanese or Overseas Chinese though. I believe it is an ideological difference, because Chinese have been poor for so long, there is no reason to talk about something unless it will bring profits or somehow help them to earn money later in life. It will probably improve in a few decades as the growth slows and salaries raise, just like their Overseas counterparts the Mainland Chinese will one day realize that money is not an end in itself, "I have money yet I feel so empty inside, why?", for now they will mock anyone thinking that way, but they will sooner than later realize that this person is right, the PRC is a young nation just about 70 years and most Chinese are like kids who have been told "no!" for so long, they have much to learn.
right now I am having a very meaningful conversation with some pretty damned good music, my wife is in the background mumbling something about what a good guy I am, and I am typing BS on this site and a couple others .... so 3+ delightful conversations, all at once........ today is special though..... not so lucky every day..... seems beer days are the best...... today is a beer day.
royceH:
Good luck to you, cobber!
Today is a beer day for me too. I'm listening to a wrap up of last weekend's footy and sucking on some German tinnies.
Wife's not home for a while yet because we're on Xinjiang time.
Cheers!
With my wife, yeah. Both in English, and in Chinese.
And there's plenty of immigrant Chinese to talk with when we go to our parties. We live near a China town.
language barrier! If your Chinese is good enough, talk to them, especially young people, they have a lot to say in Chinese. Then, you can be satisfied.
Surprisingly enough, alot of the deepest and most revealing conversations I've had were with my 15 going on 16 year old Chinese high school students. Will always have a few, both in English and Chinese every month.
I find that the older the better (normally 30+), they're usually alot more knowledgeable about the world and world history.
Also, I'd definitely say that you have to seek out the meaningful conversations, be the one to start it and carry it through. One thing I've noticed here is that while people do not very often talk about the most searching topics, that doesn't mean that they don't mind speaking about them. I've always felt that to attempt to start a meaningful conversation back at home could put you in a faux pas zone, since some people so often decide to shy away from them, because they don't know what to say and how to contribute and may feel embarrassed.
Say what you want about the Chinese but even though they can be seen as quite an insular peoples, they definitely boast very inquisitive minds.
coineineagh:
Your experience is the exact opposite of most foreigners. Is there something special that distinguished you? Location, Chinese ability, appearance, interests?
kasuka91:
A friendly approach, open to diving into those type of topics. I'll usually just bring up different types of topics out of nowhere and speak very frankly about them. Seems to work...sometimes.
