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Q: do you really love your country?

a few days ago a question was posted: would you leave if there was a war? one of the chinese posters answered I love my country. something about that bugged me, but i could not figure out what. 

i went out today as i often do. into the abyss of spit , shit and piss. (people spitting everywhere, parent encouraging and teaching their children to use the bathroom anywhere) waiting at the bus stop people are hacking and spitting right where everyone walks and stands. on the bus a mother lets her child throw up at and on her seat with out asking anyone for a bag or moving her to the garbage can (no one even attempts to clean up after themselves in china) . the child thens walks around the bus and throws up again while the mother some how finds it funny, vomit in the middle of the bus.. hilarious! i get of the bus and walk around the city parents making their babies crap in the middle of a busy sidewalk. then a thought begins to unravel in my head. 

when usa was attacked on 9-11 people from canada, uk, australia, france and others jumped up to go into battle along side america. these brave souls were willing to give their lives for a country not their own. they were willing to get maimed for a country they probably didn't even love . (thanks cousins since no one really told you thanks)

many chinese proclaim they love china. what the hell does that mean? you sit back and watch your own countrymen treat your entire country (pristine new buses, lavish high class shopping malls, luxurious hotels and apartments) like a toilet, garbage can and sewer . you say nothing. you know it is wrong but you say nothing. but if you see a black person you are quick to yell out racist ignorant remarks. when you see a foreigner with a chinese women you are quick to make rude remarks. 

but when it comes to the treatment of the country you say you love you can't even open your mouth. pathetic. you say you love your country so why do you allow others to regard it as a filthy dumping ground. discard your waste here, this is china. 

outside of china people are willing to go to foreign lands to die for countries they barely even knew. but in china they blindly shout we love our country but don't have the heart to respect their country. 

tell me, why don't you proclaim how much you love your country to the man spitting on the bus next to you? why don't you tell the mother to use a diaper or cloth , because you love your country. what are you afraid of losing a little face?

many men and women have had theirs blown off when they showed how much they loved their country. 

don't tell me you love your country because i watch your actions and i know those are empty words.

11 years 25 weeks ago in  Culture - China

 
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I wonder if they love their country when they callously vandalize each others property and blame it on the Japanese.

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11 years 25 weeks ago
 
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  Jesus, in the past I thought you were just a little mean, but you're not, you actually have serious problems Crimo. I mean, you really do have serious emotional problems. So much hate in you. All this stuff you say about China, you know that's just your own mirror, don't you? You're really talking about your own hateful soul. You need to make some changes in yourself, 'cause you're gonna face a great big light one day, and if you ain't prepared you're gonna get burned by it. Don't worry, i'm not gonna start singing gospel tunes, but you need to find something to clean out all that trash, forget about trash on the damn bus, you got piles of your own to deal with, you've got piles.

  Haha, i'm trying to stay serious here, but saying you've got piles has got me giggling. Best answer when you've got piles/ hemmeroids/ the grapes of wrath, is a bag of frozen pees pressed up against your crack, then take two fingers and push 'em back up. But you've got the sour grapes of wrath alright. Ugly to see. Uglier than anything i've ever seen in China.

crimochina:

you can't address the topic so you resort to a blind rant. bravo! and then you give yourself a thumbs up. let me correct that.

11 years 25 weeks ago
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crimochina:

wow as quickly as i posted that you logged into another account and gave yourself a second thumbs up.  

11 years 25 weeks ago
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mArtiAn:

  That was no rant, that was the voice of calm. As for the thumbs up, yeh, it had to be me, there couldn't possibly be anyone else who disagrees with the ugliness, ignorance and hate that pours out of you like so much bile. Jesus, what do you love about your own country, the fact that they tore the ancestors of the black population there from their homes and kept them as slaves for hundreds of years? The fact that American ghettos are predominantly black? The fact that young black Americans are routinely sent to fight oil wars for rich bastards who don't give a shit about them? Jesus, talk about misplaced aggression.

11 years 25 weeks ago
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crimochina:

what i love about my country is that anyone rich or poor can go to college and change their fortunes. poor people go to school for free in america. those who do not take advantage of the opportunity have no one else to blame but themselves. 

 

(your using the wrong stick martin, try again)frown

11 years 25 weeks ago
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mArtiAn:

  There's no point in me banging my head against this wall, i'd be a fool to continue doing so. God bless America.

11 years 25 weeks ago
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Sokie:

I think I clicked the thumb up  for the guy from the Mars.  Just want to say, it's not him who did both of the two thumb ups.   

11 years 25 weeks ago
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mArtiAn:

  Don't waste your time Sokie, this man is sick, he'll only decide you're one of my accounts. I mean, this guy really is sick in the head.

11 years 25 weeks ago
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Sokie:

Oh really? We have plenty of mental hospitals for those who are sick in their heads. LOL. But he doesn't seem like one, I think he is a potential debater.

Plus, it's not a bad thing to me if he thinks I am you! I do hope my English can reach your level, hahahahahaahahhahahah.......

11 years 25 weeks ago
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crimochina:

sokie i am more than willing to hear your thoughts

11 years 25 weeks ago
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Sokie:

The guy from the Mars, see? He didn't think I was you!   awwww, I knew it! My English betraied me.

11 years 25 weeks ago
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Sokie:

crimochina, you can't hear my thoughts, I  don't any microphones on this website, and I don't use my month to type.

11 years 25 weeks ago
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crimochina:

sokie you need to brush up on your english comprehension.(idiomatic phrases) 

11 years 25 weeks ago
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lokethebloke:

Go back to some of this Crimo's earlier musings and I think you'll find that he is more likely to debauch than debate. Oh by the way,this bloke claims to be a teacher and uses this tactic often to belittle non native speakers. His english is quite bad actually.

11 years 25 weeks ago
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Sokie:

Oh, forgot to say that it's a joke.

11 years 25 weeks ago
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crimochina:

and have still yet to make a counter argument to my point. all of you knock me but you can't make a counter argument. hahahahaha. pathetic. 

11 years 25 weeks ago
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mArtiAn:

  Despite what you think, Crimo, i'm not Loke, I don't enjoy these arguments, in fact I can't stand them. To me you're obvious, but there is nothing I can say that would change your mind. Why would I waste my time on such as you? Go on, spread your filth, those that pick it up have only themselves to blame.

11 years 25 weeks ago
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11 years 25 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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Brilliant question Crimo, probably the best I have ever read on here. I know exactly where you are coming from and totally agree with you. I think the difference is that in the west we are proud of our countries because of the values and ideas they have promoted, although I know a lot of those ideals are being eroded in your home country and mine. It is not so much that we love our individual countries but love the way of life they promote. In China they "love" their country because it is something they are brainwashed into thinking from an early age along with "love" for Mao and the CCP. Their definition of love and our defintion of love come from very different places.

 

I don't always agree with your posts, but your are spot on with this one, many thumbs up.

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11 years 25 weeks ago
 
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Wow, we are going to have fun with this one!!

mArtiAn:

  Hahahaha, you really love this stuff, don't you!

11 years 25 weeks ago
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lokethebloke:

I'll leave it up to you right now.   As Crimo the great military strategist knows very well, you keep your weapons of mass destruction untill last.

11 years 25 weeks ago
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giadrosich:

Can I play, too? wink

11 years 25 weeks ago
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lokethebloke:

Where are the 'usual suspects' ?

11 years 25 weeks ago
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giadrosich:

I could "stand-in" for one!

11 years 25 weeks ago
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lokethebloke:

I thought you already were!!  he he

11 years 25 weeks ago
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giadrosich:

Am I? Oh, well, in that case, I need to start acting accordingly!

11 years 25 weeks ago
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lokethebloke:

Sorry G,  the man's obviously deranged, going to have a break and accept that we have a clash of cultures.   Not worth the time or effort.   But I will be back after my travels.

11 years 25 weeks ago
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11 years 25 weeks ago
 
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All this post serves is to either troll or rally up the Chinese defense force on here. I am all for a healthy debate but more times than not these just turn into every country bashing one another over something completely unrelated to the original question. 

Sokie:

I agree with you. I had the same thought after I read the whole thing.

11 years 25 weeks ago
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crimochina:

the question is very simple. you love your country then why do you allow your fellow countrymen to trash it? why not say, "excuse me brother. we all love our country could you not spit on the bus. if the sister next to you drops her her phone it will land in your spit."

 

very simple

11 years 25 weeks ago
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mArtiAn:

  I agree with you 'thewetblanket' (God bless you, but that's a f**ked up handle) and Crimo, the amount of people who spit is truly minimal. You have to remember that so much of the population here have lived third world lives. My own wife ate cockroaches as a child she was so poor. When you live in a dump, spitting in it isn't going to make any difference. Jesus, is this really what you're talking about; spitting? Kids taking a shit too; it's very uncommon to see. I've lived here full time for the past 7 years and i've never actually seen a kid taking a shit in the street. A piss a few times but otherwise no. You are just being ugly, man. Really really ugly. I think your gripe is with the racial thing of not having freedom to take jobs whites are offered. And THAT is something i'd get behind you on 100%. But you don't want to get on that because you feel you'd be jumping on some band-wagon of backward thinking. They gave you a black president so you're not aloud to be angry anymore. But this ain't the states. As far as i'm concerned, if there's anything you should be speaking out about it's the disgusting system of bigotry that exists within the foreign teachers system. Get mad about that and i'll be right there with you.

11 years 25 weeks ago
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crimochina:

martin: you claim to have read my past posts then you should really read my posts when other expats whine and complain about racism. i get the same jobs other expats get at the same pay. and many women in china love to experiment with black men. (thanks you NBA, movies, music and porn) 

typical wumao tactic trying to change the argument.  

minimal??? everyday when i take the bus i hear it or i see it at least once. a few times in mcdonalds/ kfc i've seen it.. 

i see the child taking a dump on a weekly basis because i like to explore areas away from the center of the city. but i seen a few children going in the main square and that definitely doesn't jive with chinese culture, judging by the expression on others faces. but no one says anything. many chinese are quick to make rude remarks even to each other. strangers who are disabled overweight or disfigured. but i have never seen anyone correct their fellow countrymen. i drew a comparision with other people giving their lives for other countries but here in china they can't even open their mouths. and i would like to know why is that? edit: over the past year they put into service new pristine buses.  

11 years 25 weeks ago
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Shifu

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'...jumped up to go into battle...'. Really? I remember massive anti-war protests, a protracted (dis)engagement at the UN, WMD searches that continued for months without revealing anything and a world in fear of what the US was likely to do.

 

Otherwise, funny and adroit post.

crimochina:

Afghanistan not iraq iraq had nothing to do with 9-11

11 years 25 weeks ago
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11 years 25 weeks ago
 
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TL;DR

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11 years 25 weeks ago
 
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Crimo, on other threads it was asked whether you consider yourself a representative of your nation. Sometimes Americans I genuinely know ask me why America is hated and Americans are vilified as loud mouthed, rude, bigots.  Your post is a prime example of why.

 

Did you ever stop to consider that A. not every person in China is constantly doing the things you talk about, (as much as you imply that they are), and B. You are projecting the values and morals of one nation onto another, that is not only an exercise in futility but also a prime example of bigotry.

 

Good day to you, say what you want but there is no point in discussing anything with you! As the saying goes, don't argue with an idiot, as they will reduce the argument to their level and win with experience.

crimochina:

i have asked many people. they say these acts are disgusting and that they do not like it.  so that begs the question. you proclaim that you love your country then how exactly do you prove it in your daily life?  simply point it out to someone that you show love for your country by a. not trashing it as if it is a sewer. b. letting others know they should not do these disgusting things.

how do chinese show their love for their country??? i do not see it when i walk the streets.

11 years 25 weeks ago
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crimochina:

"Did you ever stop to consider that A. not every person in China is constantly doing the things you talk about, (as much as you imply that they are), and B. You are projecting the values and morals of one nation onto another, that is not only an exercise in futility but also a prime example of bigotry."

 

this actually makes no sense. where in my post did i say every person in china engages in this behavior? if i am asking why these people arent corrected by their own countrymen, then naturally that means the people who in engage in these filthy habits are not the majority.  but they are enough. 

are you saying china does not believe these acts to be disgusting??? from the people that i've talked to these acts are disgusting. so it is their own values. 

 

tell me why you think not pissing shatting on the street , spitting on a bus/mall are the morals of 1 nation?

11 years 25 weeks ago
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11 years 25 weeks ago
 
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To be  honest, I have never seen so much indoor spitting and child "potty doing" as I have in China.  True, not all do it, but no one says anything either.

Yes, it happens in the States too, but nowhere nearly as much as over here.

Cannot say in regards to the European countries, as I have not yet been there.

A few years ago, a Masters Degree student spat on the floor in my classroom. When i told him to clean it up, he got all indignant and said "thats ayi's job". I made him clean it up anyway. After all, Ayi has a bad enough job, she certainly does not need us to make it harder. 

stan118:

my chinese friends tell me me off when i clean after myself after eating at kfc, and remind me that its not my job, not that i listen to them but even the worker stops me before i get to the bin lol but i love the fact that your still calls her a yi and still expects her to clean what he just done

11 years 25 weeks ago
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I actually hate alot about my country. Harper and McGuinty run things like a dictatorship. I'm taxed too much. I pay sales tax on benefits that I get on my pay cheque, thats extreme, tax on everything. i think our country is decayed, too much welfare, too much white trash, too many obese people, no one dresses well, even old women curse like punks. We're over regulated. I can't do anything to my house, even change a faucet without breaking the law, if I first don't pay for a permit. There is an army of police looking to enforce petty laws like speeding. You can't ride a bike on a sidewalk, you can't drink a beer in public, yet real crimes like theft and fraud only get slaps on the wrist. We pay for garbage pick up, which was part of property tax, so the more degenerate dump garbage every where. I've seen this in the USA also. The Chinese litter like crazy, but every morning it is swept up, here I have to pick up the litter or look at it forever. And most people are just miserable, always complaining, like I just did.

MissA:

Ted, your posts about your country have single handedly talked me out of going on holiday to Canada, which had been high on my list t to visit. Congratulations.

11 years 25 weeks ago
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TedDBayer:

Sorry, come on over, I'll even put you up. Canadians are friendly. I'm telling you what life is like in a rural area. Canadian cities are clean and beautiful. The air is good. Winter can be tough, but a day where big snow flakes drift slowly down has to be one of the prettiest sights. everything covered in white snow looks so clean, winter is Jan to March, depending on where you are the aroua borealis can be quite a show. If you go far enough north in summer, the sun never sets- it sets and rises at the same time. We have a habit of saying "A" all the time.

11 years 25 weeks ago
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GuilinRaf:

People from Northern Wisconsin and Minnesota also end their sentences with "A".

Dont worry Ted, I for one would be delighted to visit Canada anytime, EXCEPT February. Nothing personal, I just do not like cold weather...

11 years 25 weeks ago
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jknox00:

Well it's October 5th and there is a white blanket of snow and I definitely do not enjoy seeing that so early.

Canada has some good qualites. Currently good leadership somehow slowly pushing us ahead (still not recovered and still way too high unemployment) but the country is definitely over-regulated to death. Not only government (all levels) but just day after day I need forms, applications, ever-invasive background checks and now credit checks for a job?

And its just stupid cold here for far too long every year. 

Friendly? I don't know. I find a lot of Canadians to be passive-aggressive dicks TBH. Petty attitudes. 'tall poppy syndrome'. 

Meh.

11 years 25 weeks ago
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TedDBayer:

@ jknox, you must be in the west, Ont is warm until mid Nov, snow maybe fro Xmas. I tried to get papers saying I was single and able to marry in China here in Canada. You would not believe how many places I had to go and how much I had to pay, then when I submitted the papers to Foreign Affairs, I had to wait at least 7 weeks for a return. I can go to an Embassy in China and get the papers same day (only Thursday) for 200 y ( I think), never did it, never got them, How hard should it be to prove I'm single, if it's that hard why can't I have three wives cause they can't prove I'd be married. @ Guilin, in Feb I stay in or wear a car outside. come here.

11 years 25 weeks ago
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11 years 25 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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Before coming to China, not really. After coming to China, oh god yes.

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11 years 25 weeks ago
 
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I hated it before going to China. I missed it once I got there. Now that I am back...  I wouldn't go as far as saying I love it, but I am ok with it.

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The long and short of it is, yep, I do, like a bear loves wild strawberries! No place is perfect, and if you don't like where you are at, find some place you do. Life is too short to hate where you are living.

mArtiAn:

  It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a deeply unhealthy society. Krishnamurti.

  Not saying you're unhealthy, on the contrary, you do seem to be a healthy-minded man, but some of your countrymen on here (Crimo, Lar) express something less pleasant, which may need to be addressed. Once again, I feel I need to hold that mirror up and look at my own country before I cast aspersions upon the mental health of another, and to that end I must say that in my experience many of my countrymen seem to be overly aggressive. I mean, my good friend Huge (you're always ready to break heads, be honest), myself (I have a fairly deep-rooted aggression which I am trying to understand), my brother Ant (that guy's crazy), so many that I know of when I am speaking honestly. And in this respect, from my observation, I have to say that I find China a little healthier. I have to. 

11 years 25 weeks ago
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giadrosich:

Well, there you go! I don't claim, nor do I take credit for, the association or behavior of those who have had the fortune of being born in the same geographical border as I. As an individual, I claim the right to be treated as one and refuse, whether at home or abroad, to be lumped together with anyone else, for either good or bad. If I do something well, I will take credit for it, but by the same token, if I screw up, I will accept the blame.

 

But the question was not "Do you love your fellow countrymen or women," but, "do you love your country," and I do, from sea to shining sea!

11 years 25 weeks ago
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mArtiAn:

  Then God bless you sir.

 

11 years 25 weeks ago
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crimochina:

my question is this. why allow others to disrespect the country or hometown you love. if  went to union new jersey and threw my trash on the ground i would be stopped by at least 2 people telling me to put it in the trash can. and these people don't even proclaim to love their country or town.  

11 years 25 weeks ago
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I can't say that I love my country, I don't think I ever did. Am I proud of it? No. But I do try to respect it by recycling, limiting water usage, remembering to turn off lights when I leave a room. Interestingly, the average Chinese person would be doing better than us if they didn't just throw their trash wherever. Chinese people already hang their clothing outside rather than using a dryer. Most of them use public transportation rather than driving a car. They don't take long showers, saving water. It's the companies and corporations that do most of the damage. Yes, Chinese people love their country, although what they love about it, I couldn't really say. What really sucks is all the hoops people have to jump through there, and if they can't jump through them, they get burned. There is a lot more help available in America, but people still get burned, maybe for different reasons.

 

I guess what I'd like to say is that I'm happy to be American because I can be American. If I move to China, speak Chinese fluently, marry a Chinese guy, have children there, denounce my citizenship...even after all that, I will still be a foreigner. If someone from China comes to America and goes through that process, they will be American, even though some people may not be so kind to them. So even though I do not quite fit in here, at least I can fit in enough to feel like I am a part of this country. I think that is something worth loving.

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I Love China and I Love my Country as well.

There are always strength and weaknesses in all countries and it’s my moral and social duty to respect other countries specially the country where I am earning my bread.

Hugh.G.Rection:

Thank you! Now, could you attempt to explain that outlook and perspective to Crimo? He appears to lack the morality to be aware of the underlying values of what you've just said.

 

Also I'm willing to bet he will post here soon words to the effect that 'I do understand those values I just don't want to share them', and in doing so he will perfectly illustrate my point.

11 years 25 weeks ago
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crimochina:

"moral and social duty to respect other countries specially the country where I am earning my bread."

 

hugh g  do you know the meaning of respect ?? i like many of the people i have met here and i like my life here. china is a beautiful country. which is exactly why i don't like seeing people treat it as if it were a garbage, toilet, sewer. i rarely see foreigners engaging in these disgusting behaviors but when i do i give them a real nasty look and i make sure they notice.actual this is perfect. if it were foreigners engaging in these behaviors to the same degree as locals you would rail against the foreigners but casually ignore the locals who engage in the same behaviors. you hugh/mat/ loke: garner no respect with me. your beliefs are un principled. defend china do not talk about what is wrong in china. i respect china and i show my respect to china everyday. i put my trash  in the bin. i do not spit on their brand new buses or in their brand new shopping malls. i am courteous to the people i encounter (even the ones who are rude) i give my seat to elderly , preg women and women with young children. i try to follow all traffic laws to allow things to move orderly. i do not try to cut in line.

i ventured too far. but my point is this. there is saying "i love and respect..." and then there is showing it. which do you think is real? 

 

11 years 25 weeks ago
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Hugh.G.Rection:

Thank you Crimo, exactly as predicted you illustrate my point perfectly!

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I put it like this. I never realized how awesome my life was and how awesome my country was until I moved to China.

 

Every countries have its positives and negatives. I lot of Chinese people always ask me if I like America better or China better. I'm usually honest and say I like America slightly better, if anything though that's just cause it's my home so I have more friends/family there and it's easier for me to live my life there because I understand how everything works and speak the language.

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I appreciate the thought, if not the delivery, Crimo. I agree.  I think the problem with China is they don't own their land.  This country is not theirs, they just exist in it.  If Mao says everyone has to move from the city to the countryside (for whatever political reason), off they go to the countryside, leaving the city to become a wasteland.  If Mao says your village has to go, the obedient tenants of China quickly vacate their forefather's hometown for other pastures.  This is the existence of China.  Their history is filled with uncertainty and distrust.  They cannot own property and must get approval from the government for almost every move they make.   How can they get passionate about their country like Americans when they are treated like herd animals?

crimochina:

finally an explanation as to why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! now i can understand why no one says anything!!!! thank you xinyuren. you are right my delivery is always coarse, i don't sugar coat for anyone expats or locals. so that makes me a racist because i treat everyone the same angry

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A:  "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "S
A: "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "Shenzhen agent can connect you with an employer, who's authorized to hire waigouren ... and can sponsor Z visa." It's not like every 10th person you meet in Shenzhen's hood can sponsor work visa ...  The only way to change from student to labourer visa is just a regular way by: 1. Finding an employer, who'll apply for an Invitation letter; 2. Exit China and apply for Z visa in your home country's Chinese embassy; 3. Enter China in 30-days after Z visa was stamped into your travelling instrument ...As I am aware, you won't be able to switch to Working permit by remaining in China....,so make ready for a return to your home .... -- icnif77