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Posts: 74

Governor

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Q: Does China sometimes seem like a dystopia?

You can draw parallels between dystopian fiction like 1984 and brave new world with about any country in the world. How about China, anything here remarkable dystopian?

For example

The amazingly confining household books

Sewer oil

Big brother here and on wechat ect,

the planned market housing bubble,

and even the hospital : I go there the other day with my wife,  and a friend of hers is there too. "Oh, what are you doing here" Her friend says. My wife answers "Oh, my husband has a cold, you?" "An abortion" she replies....

 

So tell me your dystopian reality?

9 years 25 weeks ago in  General  - China

 
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Posts: 1300

Shifu

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China overthrowing their foreign overlords (Google, Microsoft) in favor of their own domestic products to be self-sufficient? Not sure if that counts, but I see a meltdown in the system and civil unrest over the horizon. 

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9 years 25 weeks ago
 
Posts: 3256

Emperor

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The dystopia examples you mention (1984, Brave New World), the powers-to-be

* are ruthlessly efficient in their enforcement of their policies

* have a clear idea of what they want, why they want it, and how to get it

 

... which is not the case in China, from my point of view. I don't feel like I live in a dystopia, I would probably if I had to stay in Zimbabwe or North Korea for a couple of years without living in an expat bubble. Tired of ...the things people here (me included) rant about... yes, a lot.

 

To me, China is not a dystopia. Basic life is possible, and I can have time to enjoy. But things working differently from what I'm used too, things are often dysfunctional, and when I'm trying to understand why, the answers are depressing : lack of education, lack of courage, incompetence, lack of courage, lack of empathy, lazyness. China is the real-life version of the universe depicted in the movie Brazil.

royceH:

I've never seen Brazil and that is truly my embarrassing confession.

 

9 years 24 weeks ago
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manasyt:

Best movie ever. smiley

9 years 24 weeks ago
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9 years 25 weeks ago
 
Posts: 7178

Emperor

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I have been doing some thinking about this sort of thing for a while now.  You know, the big question of how does China compare to the West in terms of trying to control it's citizens.

 

And really, the difference is not that major.

 

Of course, China has the big uns such as the one child rule, the Houkou, and the great fire wall. But lets let them slip for now. After all, China seems to be the only country in the world actually doing something about population control. Without reverting to bombs and guns that is.

 

But the real difference in terms of surveillance etc is not really that different. If anything it is worse in the west. For example, with the US patriot act. The UK has similar.

 

The real real biggie is an independent Judiciary.

 

The West has it. Other countries do not.

 

That makes a big difference.  But not always, in my opinion, for the best.

 

I am still formulating my thoughts on the last statement. And this is not the question where I will try to justify it.

 

But as I keep saying, please keep your mind open, and develop your opinions on what you see.

Lord_hanson:

I agree with ScotsAlan. When I first came here I was under the impression that the law would control everyones lives. That people wouldn't be able to do anything without having to look over their shoulders to make sure no one was watching them. It seems to be the opposite. Of course extremes are bad no matter which way they go. I think it is more neglect than oppression here. Laws in the west seem more oppressive but they are usually for the good of the people. Age limits on cigerettes and alcohol for example.

9 years 24 weeks ago
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DrMonkey:

Vietnam and India have population control, 2 kids per family tops. For India, I don't know how it's been working out. For Vietnam, it works (smaller population, but much smaller surface too, similar density of population).

9 years 24 weeks ago
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9 years 24 weeks ago
 
Posts: 1439

Shifu

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It is not mine to define what country or system is a dystopia, but if I was a SF writer, I would definitely update the concept with many elements literature and films have often overlooked:

- I'll refer to DrMonkey, the controlling entity doesn't need to be efficient, because all the locks have been placed in the minds, in an unspectacular way. Not through technology, arguably not through too much force, but mostly because of a succession of decisions, events, historical facts, that led the path down collective shock therapies (complete reversal of values and social status, mass hunger, a failed revolution, propaganda contributing to make reality secondary to words and finally words meaningless) finally allowing this to happen. There was no master and no masterplan to get there.

- It is livable. Most people coming to here casually, for work or travel, will never tell you they felt like having gone through a Hollywood movie. One needs to go through the details to start smelling the flavor of dystopia. And it is surprisingly unspectacular.

- Technology. Huge topic. There sure is a huge display of mass control technologies and everything in cities planning is made so that every square meter is covered. But there's a huge difference between China and other control obsessed countries (well, the USA basically) in my sense: as a single individual on a priority one research list of some sort, I'm sure I wouldn't last a day in the US (unless I had good logistics), while I would probably have my chances in China, because of the inefficiency and numbers. On the other hand, should a real protest movement occur, in China the plug would be pulled instantly as well as any chance of it spreading. All medias would be instantly mobilized for containment and damage control and the movement wouldn't last unless it was very popular and very imaginative in its communication. In the west, I'm sure monitoring is just as efficient, but the channels are more diverse, there is a better awareness and freedom of speech wouldn't allow such an efficient damage control. Yet stories of dystopian setups usually tend to refer more to the first kind and less the second.

DrMonkey:

Rather a SF book, just a fiction book, aping 1984 and Brave New World, and fuelled by years of living in China. This book is just begging to be written, it's almost there in my head already.

9 years 24 weeks ago
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RiriRiri:

I'm sure you'd enjoy the works of Alain Damasio, if not done already.

9 years 24 weeks ago
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9 years 24 weeks ago
 
Posts: 9631

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The lack of rule of law makes China a dystopia. 

 

People do in fact live in fear. Perhaps they don't fear for their lives, but they sure fear for a lot of other things. One of the big things to fear in China is landgrab. Even though it might not happen as often as people think, a lot of people fear the government will forcefully move them away from their property, leaving them with almost nothing. People have no way of getting a fair treatment. 

The same goes for money in the bank. Lots of people prefer hiding cash at home or buy e.g. gold bars, over having money in an account, as the general fear is that the state will take their savings, as has happened before. 

People don't fear the state will kill them, but they do fear what the state will do to them. 

Then take it down a notch. Look at how people live their lives. They fear getting sick for all sorts of reasons, not actual reasons, but reasons that exist only due to the severe lack of real information. People fear the food they put in their mouth, the water in the taps.... they haven't even gotten to fear the pollution yet, at least not the majority of people. OR perhaps they all fear pollution, but they fear even more that they would vanish if they complained about it.

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9 years 24 weeks ago
 
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