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Sign up with Google Sign up with FacebookQ: Does the 'paying for everyone' at dinner etiquette annoy you?
I annoys me when one person is expected to foot the bill of all others at dinners in China. This can be a hige financial burden on people and is a deterrent in socializing in my opinion. Say a group of 10 friends goes out for dinner: one unfortunate person will pay the entire bill. This rule puts me off inviting Chinese friends out to dinner. Sometimes I want to see them but I'm not prepared to fork out huge sums just because they don't understand the concept of "everyone pays for themselves".
The "everyone pays for themselves" concept works well for us when we are out iwth other mixed expat/chinese couples.
We have some other friends that are generally very good at insisting on paying. For me this is just as annoying as to be left with the bill. I try to, every second time we eat with them, pay the bill, even if I have to wrestle the guy for it. I don't care if it's a 50/50 split, as long as things are not too off balance.
If you go to a restaurant with a lot of friends where you expect the final bill will be high, then say up front (perhaps straight after being invited) that you think the bill should be split between everyone.
I do find it rather annoying and, in my experience, it's not only the Chinese who expect it.
During my time in China I've foot the bill for ppl from other countries too. (Less so nowadays as I've moved to Xinjiang and there aren't any foreigners here...)
Not that I've been particularly happy to pay, just that someone has to pay and the short arms, long pockets syndrome afflicts many!
It seems to me the attitude of sharing costs, especially drinks, is confined mainly to ppl from England, Australia and New Zealand.
In my experience ppl from other nationalities just think the person buying the drinks/food is very generous and the idea of returning the 'shout' never occurs to them.
Of course some people are just tight arses.
My favourite evenings out are when everyone shares the bill or just simply pays their own way. This style makes the most sense and frees ppl up to socialise without fear of being sent to the cleaners.
And then there's the expectation that the person paying should order way too much food in order preserve their dignity...the face thing. That's not just crazy, but offensive too!
Yes! It annoys me to hell and back. I hate other people paying for me, and I have not paid for one meal that I have had with other Chinese people since I've been here, even though I insist everytime. I know it sounds pathetic, but, I just don't like the idea of somebody having to pay my way, and then I feel like I owe them something. I'd rather just pay for what I want, and there be no obligations on either side. Paying for what you ordered simply makes the most sense in any culture or situation surely..
derek:
I agree with you and to add to your point, in my experience they actually do expect something from you when they pay for dinner.
Scandinavian:
of course. generally, but especially in China there is no such thing as a free lunch
recently with friends visiting from home, and a local friend acting as guide, i made it clear to my local friend that she would not be expected to pay for us: meals, taxi's etc. My local friend took a long time to convince that this was normal for a group of people to split/share costs, even in the face of going against local custom. We had to watch her closely to make sure that she did not pay more than her share. Unless it is a formal invitation to a meal, friends pay their way. I was caught out a few times when i arrived first, and it really annoyed me, but not any more: i make sure i pay my way, especially as some of my local friends might be on a tighter budget than me.
Gets to be like Ground Hog Day . however I have fed a family of 10 good food 8 dishes and Beer for $25 AUS before now . But when it comes to friends I just let the wife deal with it . the ceremonial I want to pay the bill ,then the throwing of money then the put money in the others hand bag , I just sit back and think how nice Dinner and a Show
Yeah, it really creates a minefield for an expat, and then an extra headache for an expat couple (shit! there are two of us, should we invite people out twice as often?).
It's lovely to be invited out by hospitable local friends, but difficult to realise that people who will, realistically, earn less than you, will feel obliged to pay. And what if I want to invite people to a restaurant that's more/less expensive than the one they'd have chosen or, God forbid, an expat bar? Ugh...
I've read about Chinese arguing to pay the bill, but I've never seen it. I have paid for every meal that I have had in China, no matter who was with me.
Rin:
Wow, that's surprising Ted! I had never been out without the arguing over the bill occurring until after I made it absolutely clear in my circle of friends, that if we go out, it's AA.
TedDBayer:
Yes, Mike, I spend too much in China, average 30K a month.
... best learn the term 'AA'. the younger generation are cool with it. just state at beginning of the plan-making that we are all going 'AA', then, no prob.
I'm cool with other people paying for me. If inviting friends out, I often pay. I'm from the midwest in the USA, where 'AA' is the standard. However, I very rarely 'AA.' I'm not really cheap enough to cry over a couple hundred dollars [HKD]. In the past 5 days I have probably spent roughly 4500 HKD taking my friends out. It's not something we do often, so when we do.. seeing them happy is more than worth such a small sum of money.
Me and my Chinese and foreign friends always go AA. They thought it was weird at first, but now they are used to it. We do it all the time.
It doesn't bother me in the slightest, I make it perfectly clear that i'm willing and would prefer to pay my share but have no time to argue over a bill. If they still insist on doing so, I let them pay.
For the Chinese it doesn't limit socializing as we are in a society that values face and being able to take out a group of friends and pay is seen as HUGE gain in face. I always insist to pay the bill when I'm with Chinese friends as I know they are likely to pay anyway, insisting 2-3 times works well they back down and say "Ok, but I'm paying next time".
My best friend and I always make fun of this when we eat out together, when it's time to pay the bill we will very loudly argue over who is paying and make a really big scene so everyone watches us. After that we just split it 50/50.
mArtiAn:
That actually sounds pretty funny.
"I'll pay"
"No, me"
"F**k you, i'm paying"
"You motherf**ker, I said i'd pay!"
"I'M F**KING PAYING, ALRIGHT?"
"I'M GONNA F**KING KILL YOU, YOU C**T, I'M F**KING PAYING!!"
"Ok, cheers Bob, next one's on me mate. Nuther drink?"