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Posts: 181

Governor

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Q: ECC New member’s dilemma: What else is needed besides a thick skin ?

WOW. Since I joined, it has amazed me to be baselessly slammed by some and warmly encouraged by others. Hats off!

Let me clarify and get a few things out of the way. I am a new member, non-Chinese, with a single account here. I have not known any ECC members (past or present). I have no connection with ECC site. Those saying/implying anything else are talking out of brains located elsewhere than their heads.

Those who liked my posts and have encouraged me: Thanks. As with many, I am here to relax, learn, debate and share.
Those who dislike/disagree: slam the posts and argue if you want. Don’t slam me!
Those who find unworthy of their time: Don’t open (leave alone starting own threads from them). Spend your precious time elsewhere.

Frankly I don’t know the reason behind suspicions, allegations and deriding of newbies on this forum. I cannot be expected to know all that has happened in the past. I guess it was messy when I see some concerned members working hard to make this a cleaner and better forum. I will support them in their endeavour.

My 2 cents: The ‘oldies’ behaviour on site shows to ‘newbies’ what ECC is all about. What is left on site will decide if newbies feel inclined to join, contribute and/or stay!

7 years 48 weeks ago in  General  - China

 
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I up vote allan often, a true progressive who tries to defend his position on occasions is to be admired for at least trying to defend the indefensible, if he has to many adult beverages and hurls a personal insult which has happen perhaps once or twice a year, all is forgiven the next day, I rarely directly attack a person, but your beliefs are definitely fair game and will be attacked unmercifully and without any worry of your ego at all. The frustration of living in a country a generation behind the rest of the world in human empathy, that wants respect for others based on status and materialism would drive people crazy of all political beliefs and persuasions, so a little live and let live is in order for all users. Finally, if you favor dry humor, extreme sarcasm, and irony, living in China will drive you crazy unless you unleash on a forum because trying to teach Chinese these concepts is worse than teaching a caveman how to chamber, clean, fire and aim a simple pistol.

Marcos_Cisneros:

Firstly, ambivalentmace, Alan spells his moniker A L A N.  Secondly, are you really a teacher of the English language?  Dickens would raise from the dead if he saw the grammatical structure of this post.  Perhaps school leaving standards in New Zealand or in Australia are rather lax.  And I am not taking into account all of the spelling errors.

And frankly, whom are you to judge the status of China in relation to the rest of the world?  It seems to me that you are being paid in Chinese RMB, living under a Chinese work permit and residency allowance, that you are enjoying certain perks of the country, such as they may be.  I am 100 % not Chinese and I am 1 000 % not a wumao but my career has taken me all over the world, all over the world, and I have seen countries far worse than China, far, far worse.  There are things that I appreciate in China and things that I have find reprehensible.

 

And on this line, there is one quality of life issue in China that really I appreciated and that was personal safety.  I never worried about being mugged on the streets, day or night, I never worried about home invasion, I never worried about carjacking, and I never worried that the police force would be so corrupt as to be useless.  In my organisation, we have had staff members robbed in broad daylight in Washington, in New York, in London and in Paris.  We have had staff members suffer home invasions in San Francisco, in Sydney and in Melbourne, particularly in Johannesburg, and in Rio.  We had staff members have their cars carjacked out from under them in broad daylight in the suburbs of Washington, in Los Angeles, in Madrid, in Rome, and in Auckland. In the 40 odd years that the NGO for which I work has maintained a presence in China, not one time, not even one time, has any staff member been mugged, raped, assaulted at home, had their home ransacked, had their car carjacked, etc.,etc.  And we have even had staff members assaulted in Tokyo, of all places.

 

So in our internal ratings, we have a list of safe cities for our staffers on mission ... China is at the top of the list, followed by Israel, believe it or not, followed by Switzerland.

Next, the air indeed is filthy in China.  But I was recently in London and in Paris, and the air was just as filthy ... in London, on a few days, it was actually worse.  Ditto for Paris.

 

The quality of food used to be better in France but now everything is factory made and microwaved.  In Beijing and in Shanghai, I can usually find truly delicious food at any of a number of small restaurants within walking distance of my office.

 

And the shops and stores and banks and many government offices are open hours that would be unthinkable in the West.  In England, the business hours are abominable, just abominable. The shops and stores in my neighborhood in Beijing open from 07h30 until 21h00, if not later and the malls are open even later.

 

The Beijing subway is overcrowded, for sure, but it is truly a people mover.  I don't even think your New Zealand has a subway system.  The London system smells like sewer gas all the time and it shows its age.  The New York subway is falling apart at the seams and no one takes care of it.  Another plus for China.

 

And for all the accidents, the Chinese rail network is truly a great work in progress.  It outstripped the Japanese a long, long time ago.  

 

And the Chinese friends that I have made over the years have been some of the most admirable human beings that I have met.

 

So in the end, if this is such a hell on earth in your opinion, why the devil are you here?

6 years 31 weeks ago
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ambivalentmace:

yes, i know the spelling, you did not catch the sarcastic pun, allan ie. allah, that's ok. I have lived all over the world as well, but nobody should live in South Africa if you have pale skin, might as well volunteer for a target dummy at a gun convention.

 

I have traveled all over the world as well and the UN usually shows up after I leave to pick up what ever pieces are left.

 

In regards to English, I deliberately misuse English on this website almost every post because I don't wumao's to learn too much and be able to blend in flawlessly in discussion groups, it's like aiding and abetting the enemy.

 

I frequently use there and their wrong, don't capitalize sentences at the initial word, use run on sentences with commas instead of periods or stops, mix the queens english and american english in the same sentence, and use academic and redneck english in the same sentence.

 

I was trained in the art of misdirection and distraction, I simply can't turn it off, I also have a contract in dollars for the last 2 years simply because it's in my best interest as China tries to control a debt bomb that will make 2008 seem like a personal bankruptcy. I am in China to get my money back that the middle class of America sacrificed to build this country up when we should have paid attention to Mexico and our other southern neighbors. I hope Nixon is rotting in hell for this policy. In two more years the party will basically be over and India will be the new player, already have a place lined up there. Perhaps I may return to America after tax cuts get passed and a year to see the results, but Trump is not an ideologue conservative and I'm not sure after cuts he want be a spender. The observations about crime and security in China is very accurate, cameras, killing a foreigner is more severe than killing a local, loss of face internationally, but when the economy and the good times stop rolling along, this place will turn hostile on a dime, Perhaps the UN has that covered, good luck to you.

6 years 31 weeks ago
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ambivalentmace:

http://japandailypress.com/japans-kawasaki-says-china-copied-bullet-train-technology-1527012/

 

By the way, you are right about the trains, China did an excellent job stealing and copying Japanese technology, they should be so proud.

6 years 31 weeks ago
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6 years 31 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

Calm down Marcos. It's not personal.

 

Ambi and I have mega spats on here, of course we do. We are at totally opposite ends of the political spectrum.

 

But believe it or not, we sometimes take our spats off the board and discuss things via pm.

 

Ambi is on my list of people I am going to have a pint with. And it will happen, cos we can agree to disagree. Ambi is a cool dude. And from our PM discussions, he has a fantastic life story I would love to hear.

 

So long as he pays for the beer 

6 years 31 weeks ago
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6 years 31 weeks ago
 
Answers (17)
Comments (69)
Posts: 77

Governor

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According to my uncle all you need to put up with this site is high self esteem, If you need reinforcement of your beliefs from others, this is not the website for you. If you don't give a shit what anyone thinks of you, you got the right place for discussion.

 

Friday, I get to fly out of here back to Saudi, I can not understand how anybody teaches here. I just had to explain the greenhouse effect in English and Mandarin to 16 year olds who are going to Canada and will bombarded with Global Warming Theory bullshit up to their ears and they don't know anything. They should have learned these fabrications in middle school science classes.

 

In two weeks here I have lost most of my perception of China, it's worst than I could ever imagined. For those that work here and deal with the blank stare everyday, my hat is off to ambivalentmace and all the other teachers here, patience is not one of my virtues. Training fighter pilots to speak English is much easier, my only regret was learning Mandarin, because the students want the white monkey to talk Chinese, I hope I don't have to come back for awhile. I miss good food and real beer. Damn corn on a pizza yesterday, wtf.

 

 

whocaresreally:

In other news Trump is the nominee for the republicans, the race is over. The fat lady just sang the last song.

 

Now onto November, the convention is just a show.

7 years 48 weeks ago
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iWolf:

You learned Mandarin for a two week teaching gig? Sounds plausible.

7 years 48 weeks ago
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iWolf:

And to a level where you can teach about climate change. Amazing! I doubt DaShan could pull that one off.

7 years 48 weeks ago
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whocaresreally:

FYI, I learned Mandarin and Cantonese at the U.S. Army Language School in Monterey, California and then they made me switch to Arabic, not my choice. It seems my language skills in Asia were not valuable after 9/11, the military industrial complex had other ideas.

7 years 48 weeks ago
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whocaresreally:

The two week gig is to cover for ambivalentmace classes while he takes care of some security job in Brussels. I did a month for him 2 years ago when he was in Turkey, but those where college students in the summer time.

 

I'm sure your moderator can check the IP address, hell I'm using his computer. A little too slow for my taste and I prefer Linux. The man paid for my college education, covering some classes once in a while is the least I could do.

7 years 48 weeks ago
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philbravery:

I Call Bullshit

7 years 48 weeks ago
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iWolf:

Mandarin, Cantonese and (which/all) Arabic to scientific explaination level....and take 2 week esl gigs....bahahahahaha. And now off to teach fighter pilots english. Let me stop that bollicks right there.

7 years 48 weeks ago
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WhyHowWhen:

@whocares, Thanks for sharing your uncle's advice.

7 years 48 weeks ago
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whocaresreally:

So you do not even conceive of the idea that weather can actually be used as a weapon and certain individuals in the military need to be well versed in the topic.

That's good news for the element of surprise. Thanks for the confirmation. If you want the job teaching English for the Saudi Air Force, the position is currently posted on the international job forum of daves esl. We do need 2 more instructors starting July 1 for a new contract. A degree in English related major or CELTA is required.

7 years 48 weeks ago
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iWolf:

Indeed, anything is possible regarding the military. 

 

That an esl teacher has the mandarin or cantonese chops to do this is bollocks (possibly a handful of Chinese nationals could do this, possibly), never mind asking the question as to why they would need to have this ability and who they would explain the weaponisation of the weather to, in the first place. Pffffft!!

7 years 48 weeks ago
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whocaresreally:

Not in the military anymore, money too low, I would not waste time explaining that much detail in China. I was trying to explain to the class the green house effect because Cambridge does so much IELTS listening and reading on climate change topics and they need to understand this better for exams. I make a lot of extra private lesson revenue teaching IELTS to the beautiful Filipino nurses in Saudi as well as FWB, all work and no play is not my idea of a great time in the desert. Flight leaves in the AM, good luck to all of you in China,

7 years 48 weeks ago
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iWolf:

Not in the military anymore, money too low

 

What military were you in? Rwanda, IS?? So you are saying now, teaching oral english pays better than the military? You are a moron.

7 years 47 weeks ago
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whocaresreally:

http://www.eslcafe.com/joblist/index.cgi?read=39081

 

http://www.eslcafe.com/joblist/index.cgi?read=39102

 

http://www.eslcafe.com/joblist/index.cgi?read=39083

 

yes a very crazy moron making $7,312 per month with housing and food, should I ask for more money cheers matey.

 

 

7 years 47 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

I have no idea who who is... but "money too low" makes perfect sense to me...

 

How much would you want to be paid to risk being killed? Or worse...

 

Especially when you can earn pretty good bucks for doing peanuts in some other job.

7 years 47 weeks ago
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ambivalentmace:

I did not see the question last summer while I was busy out of the country. A little clarification is probably needed. I am not "whocaresreally" actual uncle, his father died in battle with me in Sierre Leone in 1986 and I supported him.

 

The language skills are from his father who spoke 4 languages and he is actually a modest individual and a true polyglot that speaks 10 languages and can write in five and actually has ghost written some books in three languages.

 

China could not pay enough to get him to live here all the time.

6 years 31 weeks ago
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7 years 48 weeks ago
 
Posts: 7204

Emperor

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You know what  you are  right ...

Maybe Ecc should close the answers section for a month and wipe everything includng the Maccas boys nose and start fresh with the terms and conditions posted from the outset.

and it would give admin a chance to rebuild from scratch.wink

like the line Trump used when refering to Mussi immagration that the media always cut off.no

Great idea hoe you have more of them

 

whocaresreally:

You know ambi was the anonymous moderator who said screw this and left the site completely.

 

So you must be the king poster and the almighty on high with the most points that demands everyone kiss your ass, so why don't you take the job of moderator, so everyone can get back to whatever self inflicting torture you people do to tolerate China, if you don't want neophytes on the site, just say so.

7 years 48 weeks ago
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philbravery:

say what now ?

7 years 48 weeks ago
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WhyHowWhen:

@philbravery, didnt mean to wipe clean surprise

7 years 48 weeks ago
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7 years 48 weeks ago
 
Posts: 7715

Emperor

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There will always (until humanity either gets wiped out, or somehow has a HUGE kick up the arse in the spirituality department) who will always be angry about something, and who think that it's their god(/s/ess/esses/non-) right to abuse and insult other people. The word 'respect' has become something of a derision for them. They get off by staying low-brow. They actually LIKE being trailer trash, yobbos, red-necks, Yangists, nongs, etc etc.

 

Anything, and anyone, that doesn't agree with them, or like the same things they do, are automatic targets for such abuse. (I'm reminded of Ren & Stimpy)

 

As we know - haters gonna hate.

 

Unfortunately, ECC has never been immune to this, and unfortunately, 'take the good with the bad' is something that many who have been on the receiving end have decided not to accept - understandably. And, thus, this forum ends up losing some of its better members, while the crap can remain.

 

There ARE some good people on here who can be worth reading... but, are they worth the crap you have to filter?

 

(and.... insulting, passive-aggressive derisive comments which prove my point in... 3...2......

WhyHowWhen:

Thanks Shining_brow, I noticed some, when have no argument on the issue, twist and attack the person with baseless allegations. Then some who are waiting to pounce with sarcasm and belittle one and all. They think its a show of power and (non-existant) intellect, but in reality project the pitiable sadistic life they lead! its like a spider will only bite because thats just what it knows. I do appreciate your words!

7 years 48 weeks ago
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7 years 48 weeks ago
 
Posts: 1876

Emperor

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And you're certainly not the first "newbie" to create threads squealing like a stuck pig about how it's being treated.

 

"It's deja vu all over again."

Sinobear:

Interesting how the down-votes always come in twos...one right after the other - almost like Janosik/Guoxiong logs in, down-votes, then a "new" totally foreigner and not butt-hurt Chinese national logs in and doubles the down-votes.

 

This has happened before and was rectified by the Admin (when guoxiong took a holiday). Coincidence? I think not.

7 years 48 weeks ago
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Sinobear:

And this proves my point

7 years 48 weeks ago
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7 years 48 weeks ago
 
Posts: 205

Governor

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When the forum itself becomes a bigger talking point that the thing it's meant to be discussing (in this case China) you know it's very close to death.

 

I've been a semi-regular poster on here for about a year and used to enjoy it. Back then almost all the questions were about China and I either learnt something, or was able to constructively contribute to the discussion. Now it's just mostly people discussing the forum itself and having passive aggressive digs at other posters (and later trying to dismiss it as banter). This process effectively excludes all non regulars as they have no clue what anybody is talking about it's just insanely boring for for those not directly involved in the conversation.

 

I hope we can go back to genuine questions about China, but as this requires new posters with new ideas, it seems unlikely. At the moment new posters are considered trolls/wumaos until proven otherwise. Most of them quite rightly decide that it's just not worth the streams of abuse to post on a random site that mostly features conversations that are of no interest to anybody except a handfull. Sadly it seems like the wumaos/trolls have won, or at the very least are winning by quite some margin.

Sinobear:

And this is why ScotsAlan has the onus on his anus to get rid of those who cause the drama and contention in the first place.

Remember way back when, when we were asked how to make the forum better by AdminCat? What has come to pass and what has been ignored/forgotten since then?

7 years 48 weeks ago
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Hotwater:

The only way to get rid of any posters causing drama would be to ban them. From what I've read and now things ScotsAlan personally he doesn't have the right to do that. Only Grumpycat can do that. 

7 years 48 weeks ago
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WhyHowWhen:

@estern, you have put it so rightly. certainly your contribution would have been greater. 'new posters, new ideas' rings a bell.. is it possible with such resistance and hostility towards them (by a certain few) ?

7 years 48 weeks ago
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7 years 48 weeks ago
 
Posts: 759

Shifu

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Wow, spiderbenz hasnt made some harsh, uncouth comment yet... im shocked.

Marcos_Cisneros:

Don't be shocked ..... spiderboenz has been making plenty of crass comments albeit in some other rubrics.  A snake cannot change its skin.

6 years 31 weeks ago
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7 years 48 weeks ago
 
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Emperor

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This is why I have resigned my ECC mod position today.

 

ECC is about answers. Not the political persuasion of the people who answer. It is supposed to be about China Hands giving advice, keeping up to date with the latest mad laws, and general chit chat.

 

I have had to resign because my " coming out" has destroyed the ethic of this site. This forum has become a forum about this forum. That is stupid.

 

I have so many issues in my life that I want to discuss openly. But  for some people the best entertainment available is to throw another shrimp on the barbie and do a bit of mod baiting.

 

I used to enjoy looking at this site. I am a confessed libtard, but now I dread looking on here. Not because of the attacks on my left wing politics, but because of  the attacks on my character. Every bug, every spam... blame scots... its his fault.

 

Well sorry, but fuck off.

 

I cant be arsed with it now. I cant be arsed with Iwolf and his double posts, I cant be arsed with Phil and his admitted mod baiting

 

Stop press. Grumpy cat has accepted my resignation. I no longer have admin powers.

 

....

 

 

....

 

 

...

 

thinking...

 

 

....

 

Phil... you are a fucking cockwomble.

 

 

philbravery:

boo fuckin hoo

7 years 48 weeks ago
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WhyHowWhen:

@ScotsAlan, Thats bad news.. Its dissapointing as all could see your (thankless) efforts and time being put for the betterment of site. Guess, now whatever will be, will be.

7 years 48 weeks ago
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iWolf:

Sorry Scotty, don't hate the player, hate the game. I am frustrated by my phone's penchant for double or triple posts but there are times when I have something to say when a computer isn't available. Blame xiaomi! Bastards!! But don't fret....as soon as I can beat the masses on the starvation marketing they use, I will buy a mi5 which should alleviate the issue. Shouldno

7 years 48 weeks ago
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Hotwater:

Should....with Chinese characteristics 

7 years 48 weeks ago
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nzteacher80:

I have to agree with the cockwomble comment.

7 years 47 weeks ago
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biggj123:

Not even worth your time dealing with these hateful, micro penis people on here.

6 years 31 weeks ago
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7 years 48 weeks ago
 
Posts: 181

Governor

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@ScotsAlan, Thats bad news.. Its dissapointing as all could see your (thankless) efforts and time being put for the betterment of site. Guess, now whatever will be, will be.

WhyHowWhen:


Regret posted this seperately by error. Admin, please remove it if psbl, thanks.

7 years 48 weeks ago
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Stiggs:

Seconded.

I don't blame you for throwing it in though, it seems like a lot of drama for a voluntary position.

7 years 48 weeks ago
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7 years 48 weeks ago
 
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What a coincidence. Someone got the talking points early.

 

http://www.echinacities.com/news/China-Projected-to-Win-37-Gold-Medals-a...

WhyHowWhen:

Yes, this is in news since countdown started with Olympic flame tour. My given link was of NBC sports: http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2015/12/07/rio-2016-olympic-medal-predictions-standings-projection-china-usa/

7 years 47 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

An article from December!? You just searched for that

7 years 47 weeks ago
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7 years 48 weeks ago
 
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I resigned because of you phil. You win.

Your campaign against me was diverting the forum from its key principles. The hatred you have against me has driven me to a frame of mind I have never felt before. I am confused.

How can you hate someone so much when you have never actually met them?

My faith in human kindness is in turmoil. Your hatred towards me has led me to question everyone.

It's too easy to dismiss you as a racist xenophobic arsehole. Your persistance in your pursuit of me has made me think about myself.

If I was like you, I would have asked grumpy to ban you weeks ago. But I am not like you. I don't know why. I honestly do not hate anyone. I honestly have no understanding of hate. I just cant feel it.

But your hatred towards me is non stop. I don't want hatred in my life.

Englteachted:

Dude let it go.

7 years 47 weeks ago
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Hotwater:

I'd suggest Phil also needs to let it go....

7 years 47 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

a) let it go.

 

b) I think you always try to think much better of people - but they choose not to think that way about themselves. People don't want to try to be 'better'... that takes effort. It takes acknowledging the way they behave. It takes change. People would rather die (slowly, horribly, painfully) than change. They think that if they change, then it will invalidate them. Or make them look & feel weak.

 

People identify with their ego too much. Attachment to the ego... Buddha said it right - attachment brings suffering.

7 years 47 weeks ago
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philbravery:

I dont hate you i just think you suck at the moderator thing all the baiting was highlighting where you failed as apposed to you acting like cock of the walk , Just think if you had not tried to build your leftist haven you wouldn't have criticism from me or other members of the forum . I was not the only one who took you to task Shrodinger must be happy his click meter restarted as the posts about ecc drew a lot of traffic. and you helped that along with your own posts i have always been up front with my criticism with Ecc when it does the wrong thing and you put yourself out as its front man . you whinge about all the spam over the weekend .however you opened the door and i told you that would happen weeks ago I still think you moderate and the this quiting thing is just a reset . but i recon you will keep your head down in future . again i don't hate and you are entitled to your views just don't change things to get an advantage . best regards

7 years 47 weeks ago
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jetfire9000:

Its a dead forum here.  There is not much useful content being produced here, there aren't interesting discussions, there isn't much collective help environment here. There seems to be a core group of ten posters at most, with a periphery group of another ten, which posts every now and then. Then there is the obvious prominence of new fake entities that persistently make artificial topics to inject some life into this place.  

7 years 47 weeks ago
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Marcos_Cisneros:

@TheGardener.  Thank you for your comments.  Dave's is far more heavily monitored and trashing doesn't go to far on that site.  And the traffic is higher.  Raoul's is more esoteric but it also more heavily monitored and again trashing gets one booted rather quickly.  For whatever reason, and I hold Admin responsible, this site has degenerated into a backroom bar slugfest, without charm, without literacy, and decidedly no longer China focused.

6 years 31 weeks ago
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Spiderboenz:

"Human kindness" is an oxymoron. 

6 years 31 weeks ago
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Stiggs:

I'm a member of Dave's, used to follow it closely but rarely visit there now and haven't posted anything for years now. I just don't like it now.

 

The same with Raoul's - I don't even remember my user name anymore.

 

Ditto the Shanghaiist, I still read the articles but can't be arsed with the comment section at all now.

 

People on Raoul's bitch about how they hate Dave's, they call it the the 'greasy spoon'. They go to Raoul's because Dave's isn't their scene. There was another website going for a while that I joined - forgot the name now but it was all ex Dave's members there who seemed to want something that was somewhere between Dave's and Raoul's.

 

My point is that just because Dave's does ---- and doesn't do-------- it doesn't mean that ECC should follow their lead. People choose to visit a forum according to what they like in a forum.  Different tastes for different people just like the bar or restaurant scene.

6 years 31 weeks ago
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Marcos_Cisneros:

@stiggs, actually you are a little off mark here.  The current registration process at both Dave's and Raoul's is much more rigourous than the process here.  And Dave Sperling, whom I know personally, sitting on his perch in Los Angeles, simply does not countenance the kind of counterproductive abuse that abounds on this site. And Raoul's even less.  This site is sputtering because of the abuse factor of 10 odd some users who believe that they have converted it into their private club.  And decidedly, it now comes across as mainly China irrelevant and decidedly trite.  Just look at the older posts and compare them to the more recent ones.

6 years 31 weeks ago
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Stiggs:

Yeah, but does it matter that a lot of the posts here aren't China related?

 

ECC is not just a place where you go to ask for visa advice, it's also a place people come to bullshit and vent about current events, life in China, in some cases personal advice...

 

I think it's great that ECC allows that, it makes it a much more interesting place than it would be if Admin got pedantic about whether or not something is strictly China related or if somebody drops an F bomb here and there.

 

I agree that membership has dropped here, that has been talked about before, more than once so I really can't be bothered getting into it too much now. I'm not sure that it's just because of abuse although I do agree that happens sometimes. Admin accounts do nothing at all to help that, they just make it worse IMO.

General consensus is that the homepage, articles etc don't help much with attracting new members.

 

I

6 years 31 weeks ago
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Marcos_Cisneros:

@Stiggs, to write that the "general consensus" is ... is a little bit presumptious, to say the least.  How and with whom and by what means have you arrived at this "general consensus" and by what authority do you speak on behalf of the general consensus?

 

I am not interested if EEC were to become a little bit more pedantic or not.  Having waded through a great amount of posts on this site, complaints about abuse from the clique of 10 are rather prevalent.  That is not a "general consensus", Stiggs, but a valid, legal observation based upon a headcount of the posts.  Apparently not all relish the feeling of posting in what is often viewed as a disparaging cesspool. More often, it is simply an excuse for cyberbullying.
 

So please, in the future, remain from what is known as invoking the tantum pluralium, and speak for yourself, on behalf of yourself, etc., unless you have the facts, figures and statistics at hand to prove otherwise.

 

And yes, I will upvote ScotsAlan at every occasion, if nothing else than out of a show of support for someone who actually is able to reason with eloquence and respond combatively with dignity.  

6 years 31 weeks ago
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Stiggs:

As I said in my post before Marcos, the subject has come up before and people have talked about it before and I said before, the opinion of people who talked about it was more or less that the website didn't do anything to attract new members.

 

Another opinion that has come up more than once is that trolls and sock puppet members don't do much to help the website retain members.

 

Something you'll find here Marcos is that when people come here with a genuine question they're usually treated with respect and people will answer their question if they can and give them a fair chance.

 

If someone comes here acting like a wanker - well it's just like real life Marcos, people won't like you and will tell you so.

 

Oh, and if you want to keep blindly down and up voting people go for it, I really don't care.

6 years 31 weeks ago
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Marcos_Cisneros:

@Stiggs, your logic is very, very primitive.  Again, people talked about it is a non sequitur.  Whom are these people?  And at what point did they talk about it?  And what powers of decision do they have?

I am actually disappointed in you as I thought that you had more intellectual mettle than this.  I see not.

 

As for people liking or not liking, that is also so irrelevant.  I could give a damn what the neighbours think so to speak.  That is also high school type logic.

 

The site is very, very definitely off mark and has very, very definitely devolved into a bottom feeding red neck bar kind of ambiance.  It could offer so much more to persons interested in China, or seeking information.  You should try to become part of the solution, Stiggs, and not part of the problem.

6 years 31 weeks ago
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Stiggs:

Yeah whatever, I just don't care Marcos.

 

If you don't like the site then don't come here. If you want to continue hanging around somewhere you don't like and down voting people then do that if that's how you get your thrills.  

 

 

6 years 31 weeks ago
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biggj123:

You are one of the more decent ones on here. At least you try to be helpful.

6 years 31 weeks ago
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Marcos_Cisneros:

@Stiggs, let's make it clear .... you are no one to be giving me orders, absolutely less than no one.  You tend to your own garden and keep it well fertilized with your own excrement, as you seem to do, and I will have my gardener take care of mine.

6 years 31 weeks ago
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Stiggs:

LOL Jesus Marcos just relax man, you'll give yourself high blood pressure or something. 

 

Look, I tried talking to you in a reasonable way and you got all salty and abrasive. Whatever, that's fine because it seemed like you were getting emotional there and I just wasn't interested anymore, so my SUGGESTION was for you to do what you want.

 

But, you're being way over sensitive and possibly a little insecure. Nobody is giving you 'orders' Marcos, this is an internet forum, not your Mother's house so you just do as you please. (that's another SUGGESTION Marcos, not an order )

6 years 31 weeks ago
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7 years 47 weeks ago
 
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@ScotsAlan, I just saw this thread and I have read all of your posts and I am appalled.

 

I am appalled because I must concur with you completely.  I used to read this Board when I was in Shanghai and it was full of helpful and often ironic information.  And then it tanked, absolutely tanked.

 

Nonetheless, I joined this board anyway.  My first welcome was a thorough trashing from PhilBravery.  I took it in stride because it is like the trashman abusing a cardiologist.  And then there were his little cotery of friends.

 

Next, along came EnglTeachTed, with his reputation preceding him (just do a google) and his volley of foul-mouthed expletives.  He has all the class of a Pittsburgh steel worker with a case of AIDS.

 

The Board has degenerated to a little club of about the same alt-right 10 or 15 members who trash China, who trash newbies and who sometimes trash each other.  If there were controls in place, such as on Facebook, where one must register a real name, a verifiable telephone number and email address, things would change rapidly.

I belong to three boards, for historical context, of the three, this one has unfortunately, and I do mean it, become the most bottom feeding.  There are few, if any, valuable items about China and the Board has become infused with right wing politics, warmongering and hatred.  I am truly sad.

 

In any case, from today on, ScotsAlan, I intend to up vote everyone of your posts, no matter if I like them or not.  Hold the course.

 

And do not try to compete with the ignorant ... it is a futile effort.  If they want to stand on a street corner naked and howl at the moon, just let them.  Many of them, particularly PhilBravery, can barely write a proper English sentence.

TheGardener:

You are correct, apart from the weird alt-right comment. They are not, they are just trolls, the same trolls that infest every anonymous site like this for expats here in China.

6 years 31 weeks ago
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Stiggs:

Marcos, when you say you intend to up vote all of ScotsAlan's posts regardless of whether you like them or not... don't you think you should be up voting the message and not the messenger?

 

The same with down voting. It should be the message that is down voted and not who wrote it but too often here the down votes are obviously the same people disregarding the message and down voting the poster because of some grudge they hold. Helpful, informative posts can get buried because of petty, childish bullshiz.

 

Not saying anything against Alan or his posts here, but I don't think the point of the up / down vote system on ECC is to blindly support or alienate anyone based on how you feel about that person.

6 years 31 weeks ago
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Spiderboenz:

I just "did a google," and the only thing that came up...  was this forum. 

6 years 31 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

Marcos is a lying troll. Thank you for proving him a liar

6 years 31 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

@Spider & Ted... & Stiggs... ditto!

6 years 31 weeks ago
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6 years 31 weeks ago
 
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That's why this Answers section is shit. It's 90% sarcasm and 9% bullshit mix with 1% decent, helpful people and post. It basically ruined by the same fuck head assholes with apparently nothing better to do but be a dirty cunt troll on some shitty Chinese website. Instead of the name "answers" it should be called "loser cunts in China flapping their cock holsters"

Marcos_Cisneros:

The absolute truth.  Thanks, biggj123.

6 years 31 weeks ago
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Erm...

 

Hold on dude.

I have done more than my fair share of pissed up crappy posts wink.

 

Its just craic Sometimes good, sometimes bad.

 

However, ECC is a force for good. Mainly because it educates ppl about the Chinese visa system, the culture, and the scams.

 

A good example of the strength of characters on here.... the recent CFTU overload on most other boards in China.  Not a single post from that scammer on here. I don't think he would dare.

 

We do have our differences, but we can all go beyond that to document and record life in China. A good example is the new ABC visa system. It was all hands to the pump to get info out to help others. Many stories of that on here. And ECC is probably the best resource available on that subject.

 

Because when it matters, we do come together to give whatever help we can.

 

A lot of the conflict comes down to boredom and isolation.

 

If we get a good China related question, the differences evaporate, and we do get together to try help 

 

 

 

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And please dude. Don't upvote just for the sake of it. Upvote good answers.

 

I upvote the right wingers on a regular basis. If I think their answer is a good un. And I am sure it's reciprocal.

 

Upvotes should be based on acceptance of the answer, agreement of a good argument, a point well made, or just plain good advice. Good snarky answers get thumbs up too. As do the ones that elicit a real hearty genuine laugh out loud 

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I up vote allan often, a true progressive who tries to defend his position on occasions is to be admired for at least trying to defend the indefensible, if he has to many adult beverages and hurls a personal insult which has happen perhaps once or twice a year, all is forgiven the next day, I rarely directly attack a person, but your beliefs are definitely fair game and will be attacked unmercifully and without any worry of your ego at all. The frustration of living in a country a generation behind the rest of the world in human empathy, that wants respect for others based on status and materialism would drive people crazy of all political beliefs and persuasions, so a little live and let live is in order for all users. Finally, if you favor dry humor, extreme sarcasm, and irony, living in China will drive you crazy unless you unleash on a forum because trying to teach Chinese these concepts is worse than teaching a caveman how to chamber, clean, fire and aim a simple pistol.

Marcos_Cisneros:

Firstly, ambivalentmace, Alan spells his moniker A L A N.  Secondly, are you really a teacher of the English language?  Dickens would raise from the dead if he saw the grammatical structure of this post.  Perhaps school leaving standards in New Zealand or in Australia are rather lax.  And I am not taking into account all of the spelling errors.

And frankly, whom are you to judge the status of China in relation to the rest of the world?  It seems to me that you are being paid in Chinese RMB, living under a Chinese work permit and residency allowance, that you are enjoying certain perks of the country, such as they may be.  I am 100 % not Chinese and I am 1 000 % not a wumao but my career has taken me all over the world, all over the world, and I have seen countries far worse than China, far, far worse.  There are things that I appreciate in China and things that I have find reprehensible.

 

And on this line, there is one quality of life issue in China that really I appreciated and that was personal safety.  I never worried about being mugged on the streets, day or night, I never worried about home invasion, I never worried about carjacking, and I never worried that the police force would be so corrupt as to be useless.  In my organisation, we have had staff members robbed in broad daylight in Washington, in New York, in London and in Paris.  We have had staff members suffer home invasions in San Francisco, in Sydney and in Melbourne, particularly in Johannesburg, and in Rio.  We had staff members have their cars carjacked out from under them in broad daylight in the suburbs of Washington, in Los Angeles, in Madrid, in Rome, and in Auckland. In the 40 odd years that the NGO for which I work has maintained a presence in China, not one time, not even one time, has any staff member been mugged, raped, assaulted at home, had their home ransacked, had their car carjacked, etc.,etc.  And we have even had staff members assaulted in Tokyo, of all places.

 

So in our internal ratings, we have a list of safe cities for our staffers on mission ... China is at the top of the list, followed by Israel, believe it or not, followed by Switzerland.

Next, the air indeed is filthy in China.  But I was recently in London and in Paris, and the air was just as filthy ... in London, on a few days, it was actually worse.  Ditto for Paris.

 

The quality of food used to be better in France but now everything is factory made and microwaved.  In Beijing and in Shanghai, I can usually find truly delicious food at any of a number of small restaurants within walking distance of my office.

 

And the shops and stores and banks and many government offices are open hours that would be unthinkable in the West.  In England, the business hours are abominable, just abominable. The shops and stores in my neighborhood in Beijing open from 07h30 until 21h00, if not later and the malls are open even later.

 

The Beijing subway is overcrowded, for sure, but it is truly a people mover.  I don't even think your New Zealand has a subway system.  The London system smells like sewer gas all the time and it shows its age.  The New York subway is falling apart at the seams and no one takes care of it.  Another plus for China.

 

And for all the accidents, the Chinese rail network is truly a great work in progress.  It outstripped the Japanese a long, long time ago.  

 

And the Chinese friends that I have made over the years have been some of the most admirable human beings that I have met.

 

So in the end, if this is such a hell on earth in your opinion, why the devil are you here?

6 years 31 weeks ago
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ambivalentmace:

yes, i know the spelling, you did not catch the sarcastic pun, allan ie. allah, that's ok. I have lived all over the world as well, but nobody should live in South Africa if you have pale skin, might as well volunteer for a target dummy at a gun convention.

 

I have traveled all over the world as well and the UN usually shows up after I leave to pick up what ever pieces are left.

 

In regards to English, I deliberately misuse English on this website almost every post because I don't wumao's to learn too much and be able to blend in flawlessly in discussion groups, it's like aiding and abetting the enemy.

 

I frequently use there and their wrong, don't capitalize sentences at the initial word, use run on sentences with commas instead of periods or stops, mix the queens english and american english in the same sentence, and use academic and redneck english in the same sentence.

 

I was trained in the art of misdirection and distraction, I simply can't turn it off, I also have a contract in dollars for the last 2 years simply because it's in my best interest as China tries to control a debt bomb that will make 2008 seem like a personal bankruptcy. I am in China to get my money back that the middle class of America sacrificed to build this country up when we should have paid attention to Mexico and our other southern neighbors. I hope Nixon is rotting in hell for this policy. In two more years the party will basically be over and India will be the new player, already have a place lined up there. Perhaps I may return to America after tax cuts get passed and a year to see the results, but Trump is not an ideologue conservative and I'm not sure after cuts he want be a spender. The observations about crime and security in China is very accurate, cameras, killing a foreigner is more severe than killing a local, loss of face internationally, but when the economy and the good times stop rolling along, this place will turn hostile on a dime, Perhaps the UN has that covered, good luck to you.

6 years 31 weeks ago
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ambivalentmace:

http://japandailypress.com/japans-kawasaki-says-china-copied-bullet-train-technology-1527012/

 

By the way, you are right about the trains, China did an excellent job stealing and copying Japanese technology, they should be so proud.

6 years 31 weeks ago
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6 years 31 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

Calm down Marcos. It's not personal.

 

Ambi and I have mega spats on here, of course we do. We are at totally opposite ends of the political spectrum.

 

But believe it or not, we sometimes take our spats off the board and discuss things via pm.

 

Ambi is on my list of people I am going to have a pint with. And it will happen, cos we can agree to disagree. Ambi is a cool dude. And from our PM discussions, he has a fantastic life story I would love to hear.

 

So long as he pays for the beer 

6 years 31 weeks ago
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6 years 31 weeks ago
 
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This topic seems to resurface regularly on this board, and i have seen many of the more long term posters offer the Admin on this site offer valid and logical ideas on how to improve this site. These go ignored and the frustration at the continued lowering of any standard is visible. it does not help with no consistency of moderation on the board.

 

Even over the last year, more than a few of the so-called 'new posters' have been caught out in their own lies and it is these that undermine the usefulness of this site -  it is obvious they are there not genuine people looking for help, but just posting for the sake of a questions being asked:

http://answers.echinacities.com/question/i-want-find-language-exchange-partner-any-advice?type=alatest#answer000

 

And then there are the posters who just post questions that are obviously anti-foreigner. They have an agenda they are trying to push that is not the usual sharing of experiences.

 

in a country where you have to second guess what work-colleagues are going to do (or not do) it becomes tedious, for me anyway, being 'tactful' online or avoid being direct to cut though the obvious BS.

 

everyone has probably had more than one BCD and to vent online is more appropriate than in public.

there was a post from one regular here a few months ago who was expressing worry his son might have ADHD and some of the more 'hard-nosed' posters gave support because this was a problem people could empathize with, regardless of political beliefs or whatever, because they also have children. And i will admit i do think of how challenging it is for you guys with trying to raise children in an environment you wish they weren't in.

there was another post that touched on suicide - which struck a chord - enough to cause posters to offer support in the form of help-lines in their home countries. And again some brave poster deemed it fit to down-thumb these responses.

 

I will admit that this place is not the forum for people posting their sexual adventures (do you not have real friends to talk with who will give you the approval you are probably looking for?). Although these are rightly (IMO) given the short-shrift they deserve.

 

for the most part this site seems the most useful in trying to make sense of the more nonsensical aspects of this country. My experiences as a foreign woman will be quite different of those as the majority on here who seem to be foreign men, yet to some even sharing these experiences seems to be unacceptable.

 

yes, you do need a thick skin on this site, as you always seem to have needed - i have looked back at posts from years ago.

As you need a thick skin to live in China.

This is not a kittens and flowers refuge from the world.

 

But this site still manages to be informative, even if the moderation policy is in the toilet and fake posters and questions abound.

ambivalentmace:

China is the wild wild west on steroids without guns and a boring day is a good day.

6 years 31 weeks ago
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Marcos_Cisneros:

@ambilaventmace, actually the Chinese are far more polite, say than the Australians with their brand of primitive outback politeness and far more open than the Japanese with their false sense of subterfuge and fausse politesse.

 

Many of the foreigners in China, until recently, were truly miscreants who arrived with a full retinue of luggage of pre-existiing problems, particularly among you ESL teachers.  Once upon a time, China indeed was the new frontier, the wild west of the maladroit and ill-suitted, of the fake diplomas and even more fake CV's.  However, with the new vetting system, at least in most places, a evident clampdown has begun.  In Beijing, in any case, third worlders are refused jobs as ESL teachers, at least legitimate jobs, but many are hired under nefarious purposes by dubious recruiters.  There was recently a major mini-riot in Sanlintun, if you know that district in Beijing, between a group of drunken Australians and a group of drug peddling Nigerians who claimed to be South Africans.  Beer bottles were thrown, windows were smashed, property was damaged but the PSB did an excellent job and the entire lot were arrested and rounded up.  They were fined, some were remanded to a Chinese prison after sentencing, some were deported after 60 days in jail.  And the Australian and Nigerian ambassadors were summoned to the Foreign Ministry for quite a tongue lashing to say the least.  Damage to a few bars was considerable.

Then there were the riots in Guangzhou between the Indians and the Africans.  That was quite serious and they occurred after the PSB secured a neighborhood  after battles between the two.  Over 1,000 persons were deported in the space of two weeks, some were jailed, and the Nigerian leaders of the riot were remanded to military prisons.

 

Of course then there was the insidious incident of a Russian violinist on the M train between Shenyang and Beijing who was drunk and beat up a Chinese fellow passenger, a woman.

 

And ad infinitum.

 

So from my vantage point, I can see what is good in China and I can see what needs betterment. I can also see the good and the harm that foreigners have brought to this country.

 

I doubt highly that if the Nigerians of New York rioted Trump would hesitate for a minute in the strength of his violent response.  All-in-all, China is still a good place to be.

Again, I repeat ... if you do not like it here, for whatever reason, just leave. 

6 years 31 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

A touch of madness is also a requirement for a foreigner to live in China.

 

If it weren't for the mercury in my system I would have left years ago.

 

All hail mercury poisoning. The great enabler that breaks down the east west frontier wink

6 years 31 weeks ago
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Marcos_Cisneros:

@ScotsAlan, for you, in your own language, the following...

 

Alba Ailean, tha thu gu math cianail. Agus tha mi a 'sgrìobhadh thugaibh nad chànan. Gun teagamh gu math cianail. A bharrachd air dòchas ach fhathast ann an saorsa.

6 years 31 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

You dinnnie Ken whit a speak ya baheid. Ahm, a lowlander, a sassanach, 

6 years 31 weeks ago
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Marcos. You are projecting.

 

You are saying you are better, because you studied harder. 

 

I get that. And I totally agree with you.

 

White privileged and all that. I know.

 

PM me. We can maybe chat.

Marcos_Cisneros:

ScotsAlan, ¿ Projecting what ?  Not projecting anything and not even being serious with you, lad....

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Answer of the DayMORE >>
A:  "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "S
A: "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "Shenzhen agent can connect you with an employer, who's authorized to hire waigouren ... and can sponsor Z visa." It's not like every 10th person you meet in Shenzhen's hood can sponsor work visa ...  The only way to change from student to labourer visa is just a regular way by: 1. Finding an employer, who'll apply for an Invitation letter; 2. Exit China and apply for Z visa in your home country's Chinese embassy; 3. Enter China in 30-days after Z visa was stamped into your travelling instrument ...As I am aware, you won't be able to switch to Working permit by remaining in China....,so make ready for a return to your home .... -- icnif77