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Q: Getting my Chinese/British kids out of China
...WITHOUT relinquishing their Chinese nationality. That's something I want them to decide when they're older, in case they may want to do business and own property in China, and not be vulnerable to every immigration directive and scammer in the nation.
By the way, my kids have access to apply for Dutch, British and Chinese passports, but we didn't get any yet.
And our emigration destinatiuon is GERMANY. Important detail.
So far, the vague information I've got leads me to believe I should get them Chinese and British passports, then hand over the Chinese passports (no loss of nationality) to the PSB to get Entry/Exit permits. Then they can leave on their UK passports, and Germany will let them in.
I consulted a lawyer in Netherlands which led to even less clarity. British and German authorities are also unclear. What should I do next??
9 years 3 weeks ago in Transport & Travel - China
A British passport will get you into anywhere in Europe, as will a Dutch passport as you know.
But you cant have a Chinese passport plus another. China says no. Officially you need to give up their Chinese nationality for them to get a foreign passport.
Just get them Chinese passports and a German visa. Once you get there, get them British or Dutch passports (makes no difference which), and dont tell the Chinese Government.
Europe accepts dual nationality, China does not.
ScotsAlan:
Yup Mike. And to be even safer, use the Chinese passport (with a visa), to exit China and enter Europe. Then fill your boots in Europe with the European passport. Use Chinese passport to leave Europe and enter China. If you leave China with a passport and visa, and come back without the chops, the border people want to know why. I think its important for kids born to mixed parents to have the option to decide where they want to live in the future. Give up Chinese nationality, its difficult to get back.
coineineagh:
I've heard of this method. Get out with Ch. passport. But Europe won't allow them to enter on a visa in their Ch. passport, since they have an EU passport. My German friend said a 3rd country would have to be involved. Exit China to (X), (X) stamps Ch. passport. Then when departing (X), hope that they'll be willing to stamp your EU passport or both passports. *Then* you can travel to Europe unhindered. Taiwan makes the best (X), since no country hates the CCP more. I just thought it's very complex, and hoped there would be a simpler way.
Lord_hanson:
That sounds like a good idea. A really good idea. I might try that myself.
ScotsAlan:
Yup.You might need to go via a third country. Do the Chinese passport in and out one way, the European the other. The chops have to balance.
But really, what's to stop your kid entering Europe on a Chinese passport with a visa? Do the European border guards know your kid has a Dutch passport in your rucksack?
Do you suddenly become "honest" once you leave China?
The system is flawed. Why should we have to obey flawed rules 
coineineagh:
passport is irrelevant. the kids are mine, so they know my kids carry my nationality. which excludes the possibility of getting a visa in their Ch. passport. Unless I explicitly renounce one of their nationalities, which I don't want to do for them. i hate having to organize a stop over. my family has never even been on a plane.
ScotsAlan:
They German border Guards don't know they don't have Chinese nationality. Your kids might be a different nationality, but they are still your kids.
I have friends in the UK with Chinese wives and mixed kids. They need to get the kid a visa when they visit China. It's perfectly normal for parents and kids to have different nationalities.
ScotsAlan:
The thing to be aware of is consular assistance. With your British/ Dutch dual nationality, enter a third country on your Dutch passport, get into trouble.... the British Government will not help.
mike695ca:
@coin, i dont see the issue here. Chinese dumb passport laws are well known. Many foreigners have kids and they have chinese passports. Almost zero chance your kids will be denied a visa based on the fact that their parent is not chinese. You are gonna have a chinese wife standing right there after all.
ScotsAlan:
Spot on Mike. The issues of dual nationality has been discussed here many times. We all know the law os wrong... so feck the law. Do what is best for your family.
A British passport will get you into anywhere in Europe, as will a Dutch passport as you know.
But you cant have a Chinese passport plus another. China says no. Officially you need to give up their Chinese nationality for them to get a foreign passport.
Just get them Chinese passports and a German visa. Once you get there, get them British or Dutch passports (makes no difference which), and dont tell the Chinese Government.
Europe accepts dual nationality, China does not.
ScotsAlan:
Yup Mike. And to be even safer, use the Chinese passport (with a visa), to exit China and enter Europe. Then fill your boots in Europe with the European passport. Use Chinese passport to leave Europe and enter China. If you leave China with a passport and visa, and come back without the chops, the border people want to know why. I think its important for kids born to mixed parents to have the option to decide where they want to live in the future. Give up Chinese nationality, its difficult to get back.
coineineagh:
I've heard of this method. Get out with Ch. passport. But Europe won't allow them to enter on a visa in their Ch. passport, since they have an EU passport. My German friend said a 3rd country would have to be involved. Exit China to (X), (X) stamps Ch. passport. Then when departing (X), hope that they'll be willing to stamp your EU passport or both passports. *Then* you can travel to Europe unhindered. Taiwan makes the best (X), since no country hates the CCP more. I just thought it's very complex, and hoped there would be a simpler way.
Lord_hanson:
That sounds like a good idea. A really good idea. I might try that myself.
ScotsAlan:
Yup.You might need to go via a third country. Do the Chinese passport in and out one way, the European the other. The chops have to balance.
But really, what's to stop your kid entering Europe on a Chinese passport with a visa? Do the European border guards know your kid has a Dutch passport in your rucksack?
Do you suddenly become "honest" once you leave China?
The system is flawed. Why should we have to obey flawed rules
coineineagh:
passport is irrelevant. the kids are mine, so they know my kids carry my nationality. which excludes the possibility of getting a visa in their Ch. passport. Unless I explicitly renounce one of their nationalities, which I don't want to do for them. i hate having to organize a stop over. my family has never even been on a plane.
ScotsAlan:
They German border Guards don't know they don't have Chinese nationality. Your kids might be a different nationality, but they are still your kids.
I have friends in the UK with Chinese wives and mixed kids. They need to get the kid a visa when they visit China. It's perfectly normal for parents and kids to have different nationalities.
ScotsAlan:
The thing to be aware of is consular assistance. With your British/ Dutch dual nationality, enter a third country on your Dutch passport, get into trouble.... the British Government will not help.
mike695ca:
@coin, i dont see the issue here. Chinese dumb passport laws are well known. Many foreigners have kids and they have chinese passports. Almost zero chance your kids will be denied a visa based on the fact that their parent is not chinese. You are gonna have a chinese wife standing right there after all.
ScotsAlan:
Spot on Mike. The issues of dual nationality has been discussed here many times. We all know the law os wrong... so feck the law. Do what is best for your family.
Related question: Do you need a visa to go to Taiwan, or can you enter freely for X amount of days? Y'know, coz Mainland authorities might not let you leave to a country that you have no visa for. All Taiwanese websites are blocked or impossible to navigate, naturally.
xunliang:
You can go for 90 days without one. Pretty sure...But Chinese passport holders need to apply for that weird visa thing.
hi2u:
For Americans last time I checked it was 30 days free without need for visa. Different countries might be different. If you're just passing through should be no problem.
coineineagh:
Crap. It's for my kids, though. UK citizens. Perhaps I can arrange that I just go in & out of customs alone with my kids, while my wife waits in airport transit... so complicated. But will Mainland China let my wife board the plane to Taiwan with no visa? AAARGHH!!!
hi2u:
Ya Chinese citizens will probably need a visa to go to Taiwan. Make sure your wife doesn't board a plane to Taiwan without checking first.
You do what you will, but be certain of one thing: Chinese authorities do not find dual citizenship amusing anymore, and the time for exploiting loopholes is dying fast.
So you can bet if there is ever one discrepancy to be discovered in your plans, you'll have to get your stories straight and hide your second passports well, because there won't be a second chance.
Nowadays the sentence is citizenship revocation + ban.
Don't believe me? Check the law and ask your local PSB.
If I consider the Chinese to be right about one thing, it's that people can ever only belong to one place.
Grow a pair and make a choice. It's actually not that hard.
I recently enquired about this very matter at the Chengdu PSB and it's much easier than people think. I also had a son born in China and immediately got him an Irish passport. Like you, I don't plan on staying in China long-term but would like my son to have the option of Chinese citizenship when he's older. I showed them the Irish passport which they had no problem with but simply said it's not recognized IN China as long as he still had Chinese citizenship. Please note I have not put him on my wife's hukou or got a Chinese passport. The birth cert counts as citizenship. The best option is to have Irish passport for outside China and before leaving China go to PSB with wife and birth cert and get an exit entry cert for getting the kid in and out of China and use Irish passport every where else. eec is valid for 3 months and if expired you can get a new one at any Chinese embassy in the world the same way. They told me this will keep his options open if he ever wants to return and cancel his Irish citizenship. Easy peasy!!
I recently enquired about this very matter at the Chengdu PSB and it's much easier than people think. I also had a son born in China and immediately got him an Irish passport. Like you, I don't plan on staying in China long-term but would like my son to have the option of Chinese citizenship when he's older. I showed them the Irish passport which they had no problem with but simply said it's not recognized IN China as long as he still had Chinese citizenship. Please note I have not put him on my wife's hukou or got a Chinese passport. The birth cert counts as citizenship. The best option is to have Irish passport for outside China and before leaving China go to PSB with wife and birth cert and get an exit entry cert for getting the kid in and out of China and use Irish passport every where else. eec is valid for 3 months and if expired you can get a new one at any Chinese embassy in the world the same way. They told me this will keep his options open if he ever wants to return and cancel his Irish citizenship. Easy peasy!!
ScotsAlan:
Yup. I have heard about this. Its ok if you have your baby here and dont intend to stay til school age, or plan to leave and not come back. The document only allows exit from China, not a return. To return, you need a visa in the childs foreign passport, or a Chinese passport. The document is only available for return for children born to Chinese parents outside of China.
aierlan33:
Hi Scots. You're right about it being best suited to those not staying in China or wanting to send a kid to public school but I double checked and they assured me it is for ENTRY and EXIT and can be gotten any time at any Chinese embassy abroad.
ScotsAlan:
Yes. I know people who do this. I think its actually an emergency passport. So you need one yo exit, then get another to re-enter? I am meeting some mates this weekend who have done this. I will chat with them about it :)
To update this thread: My wife had a lengthy talk with money-hungry PSB officials, about Chinese passports and leaving the country. She also asked about Enrty/Exit permits.
But the salivating bribe collector saw more room for price gouging, so he started by saying that we can't get passports for both boys because of One Child Policy. We'd have to pay fines first, just to get them added to the Hukou. The fact that my wife's parents have no siblings, legally allowing her to have two kids, makes no difference. Perhaps the rule is only for pure nationals, not for traitors married to a laowai.
So in the end, my wife decided that Chinese passports for our boys are more trouble than they're worth. We happily relinquish them to get out of this hellhole. And I don't have to think about the best way to bounce through multiple passport checks anymore. Hallelujah.
"Applying for a passport from outside the UK" comes with a 30-page guide on how to fill it in. This will be fun. I just read about the countersignatory requirement, and there's only one person in my area that could possibly qualify.
Luckily I didn't get my British nationality 'by descent', or my kids wouldn't be eligible. I just barely got lucky: Born June 1982 in Scotland, so I gained nationality by being born in Britain. The law changed in 1983, and people born later need a British relative at birth to be eligible.
Stiggs:
If you still think it's worth having Chinese passports for your kids and you can still be bothered dealing with the bullshit and red tape, could you maybe try going to a different branch of the PSB or talking to someone else?
If the rule is your wife can have two kids (assuming there's no weird clause about marrying a foreigner or whatever) then it could just be that the guy you talked to had no idea what the rule was and was too lazy to bother finding out. Let's face it, it's not an unlikely scenario. If you went to a different official maybe the rule will be different too.
coineineagh:
I'm happy my wife gave up on the Chinese passports. They're of questionable utility. If my sons ever want to do business in China, my wife has her passport to register it all to a Chinese citizen. I met a Canadian guy in China, whose wife was living in Canada. He decided to work in China, because Canadian authorities were pressuring his wife to assume Canadian and relinquish Chinese nationality. Since there was nothing tying her to Chiona anymore. At first I thought I'd never do something like that, but i may consider it if&when the time comes
ScotsAlan:
You have a good wife Coin. So it was her who wanted the kids to have Chinese passports. Good wife and fantastic mum.
