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Q: How would China go as a Meritocracy?

Just discussing politics (OMG - NO!!!!!), and I had this thought.

 

Given that a meritocracy is based upon education, skill, experience, wisdom, etc, and I think it's something sorely in need of basically everywhere, how would China go with it?

 

(FTR, Democracy = political power for the wealthy and popular)

9 years 28 weeks ago in  Culture - China

 
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It would be no better than existing ways of ruling.  You can't break the rules of humanity no more than you can cheat gravity.  Everything has been tried already.  The greedy and power hungry will float to the top.  They are the most experienced and skilled at wielding people. The truly wise will stay out of the power game altogether.

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9 years 28 weeks ago
 
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The best example of a meritocracy is probably Singapore.... but they claim it is a democracy and there isn't any political freedom. Without the right to challenge the rulers, how can you really tell if you have people possessing the best merits at th helm. 

 

China as a meritocracy, first you'd had to get rid of all the circlejerking the current leaders are doing. How'd you know them being in power comes from merits rather than from knowing someone. 

 

I'd think that a meritocracy would be better at handling border disputes. In its perfect incarnation, a border dispute should be possible to resolve without nationalistic belittlement being in the way of a rational solution. 

The problem for China right now, if it was a meritocracy is, someone would have to stand up, on CCTV1 7PM Evening News, and say "People of China, the economy is in the dumps, we have to Blah and Blah and that will suck for most of us"..... and that would be the end of that government. .... UNLESS !!! decades are used at explaining the population that the meritocratic approach is the best way for all to govern a society like China. 

 

Personally I like the idea of having smart people run the world. But we can of already do in the western world. It is only the front figure that is running on ideology, the people behind the scenes who actually draft the laws are educated for doing so (at least in the incorruptable north) 

xinyuren:

Intellectuals running the government?  Never.  Not unless it was some kind of intellectual dictatorship.  Ruling people has nothing to do with logic and rationality.  It's about giving them (false) hope.  Experience politicians know this already.  The reason being, the problems of society are impossible for man to solve.  The only alternative is to give people a reason to hope for a better future.  This is not a job for the intellectuals.  Once an intellectual sees a problem isn't practically solvable, they will cease to yearn for power.  If an intellectual leader actually tries to pursue solving the problem, really solving it, the people will put him out of power because the solution would require something that people don't really want (to be unselfish, rational, and reasonable).

 

No, politicians become career politicians because they see the truth as it really is.  They live outside the Matrix and they want to exploit it.

9 years 28 weeks ago
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DrMonkey:

@xinyuren You would love France, where *all* the politicians with actual offices beyond mayor are all out of the same engineering & public management schools, since ... a century, maybe more ? People are growing tired of that now, because it became very self-serving and disconnected from the electors reality.

9 years 28 weeks ago
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9 years 28 weeks ago
 
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I believe Plato suggested something similar to a state run on the basis of meritocracy and for the intellectual in 'the Republic', written a few thousand years ago. So far I don't think there have been any serious attempts at realizing it for many of the reasons stated by Scandinavian and Xinyuren.                                                                                            Another reason is also because like all other ideological states the greedy and unscrupulous would find a way of getting to the top and ruining it for the rest of the people. Much like with Communism in the first place incidentally.

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9 years 28 weeks ago
 
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Without a doubt, China would become a much better place. Though I sometimes whine about the quality of Chinese workers, I also have no doubt that China has many very talented people. The problem as always is the best Chinese people are suppressed by cronyism and nepotism. What motivation for development is there when someone will just use money or contacts to outdo you? 

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9 years 28 weeks ago
 
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I thought it already was.

But with the usual Chinese Characteristics.

laowaigentleman:

Those being incompetence reinforced with nepotism and cronyism presumably?

9 years 28 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

You will never get away from that.

 

If you were in the position to give someone a job and your mate was needing a job... what would you do?

 

Or.... if you were in charge of some department and you needed a project done, do you choose the guy you know who has already done a good project for you in the past or pick some random guy who looks better on paper?

9 years 28 weeks ago
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xinyuren:

Yes, this is exactly my point.  Some things will never go away.  A door will always be open for someone who is keen enough at manipulating people.  After that, it's a slippery slope.  Meritocracy would have a short life span.

9 years 28 weeks ago
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Kaiwen:

I think most of us can accept that there is no realistic hope of change under the current structure in China but I read the question in more theoretical rather literal terms. Theoretically, if China could become a meritocracy, it would certainly change for the better and would finally end the dogma that continues to hold the country back.

9 years 28 weeks ago
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9 years 28 weeks ago
 
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meritocracy isnt just about smart people. its about putting the kind, honest, brave and selfless people in positions that merit their skills. but there are very few in China: the Red Guards killed most of them off, and the rest learned to lose their meritable skills. all thats left is an ocean of conformist copycats. China cant become a meritocracy right now.

xinyuren:

Ideally, we all want these kind of people in office (and there are more of these kinds of people in China than you might think), but here is the big problem:   Running a government is a soul-sucking, reality-facing, back-breaking experience. The world isn't like SimCity. People generally look after self interests. Dealing with people in power requires a person to change their values and compromise their integrity.  Power does not have a healthy affect on people. Selfless people would be burned alive.  The only way it could work is if the whole world were a Meritocracy.  This is the reason this form of government is only theoretical. Even the idea that man is capable of ruling themselves has proven to be fallacy

9 years 28 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

when i think of meritocracy, i think of a more simple concept, where the best person for the job is employed. this way, tasks are completed effectively. right now, i feel i can do better than certified marketing staff, trained hospital staff, bank clerks and so on. why? because i can make better decisions after applying common sense and rationality. i understand concepts such as target demographics, bedside manner and customer service even without any training, while local professionals are just applying what they rote-learned without thinking. nobody taught them empathy, reason or consideration, so how can they possibly accumulate merit for real skills? the closest thingi've seen is "respect elderly professionals" in which merit is gained by growing old, ignoring complaints and not losing your job. actually, the aforementioned is the only definition of meritocracy that makes sense to me. when talking purely political, it is as xinyuren says: the meritable skills of a politician are questionable. if we're talking about a Venus Project type meritocracy, then the world would be run by technicians, which might go well, but also not without problems.

9 years 28 weeks ago
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xinyuren:

So who would be the electors in your Meritocracy?  If the voters are the citizens, that leaves plenty of room for corruption.  After all, what do most citizens know about merit?  If the electors are a special appointed board?  Even more easily to corrupt.  Rarely would the best person for the job get in because the best people spend their time perfecting their profession, while the power hungry spent their time perfecting corruption and manipulation.  Honest, selfless people don't have a chance.  They would just be pawns.  I know how I sound, but unfortunately this is the way of politics and always will be.

9 years 28 weeks ago
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9 years 28 weeks ago
 
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China should be a Hulktatorship... period.

coineineagh:

a ship full of giant potatoes?

9 years 28 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

Ha ha. In Scotland it would be a Hulktattieship.

 

That does not sound so good :-)

 

9 years 27 weeks ago
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9 years 28 weeks ago
 
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I suppose a recent example is Greece.

 

When they went bust a few years ago they appointed an autocratic Government.

 

That must be very similar to a meritocracy.

 

I recall they basically appointed proven business leaders and such like into Government positions.

 

 

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9 years 27 weeks ago
 
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