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Sign up with Google Sign up with FacebookQ: "I don't like China" = racism? Really?
This comes off another thread.
Some people seem to believe that you cannot say you didn't/don't really enjoy your time in China without being called a racist.
Where I come from, that's a pretty hefty accusation, and you don't call somebody racist unless you expect to have a fight on your hands, but that word seems to have been liberally thrown around quite a lot the last few weeks.
So, here is it: I have spend a lot of time in Malaysia and Singapore and loved the 'Chinese' elements of both those countries. I love the Chinese areas of Sydney. Hell, I even like the 'Chinatown' in Bangkok. I didn't like China - being lied to, being treated like an exotic monkey, and the sheer difficulty of day-to-day life ground me down immensely. I disliked life there - although God knows I tried to find the positives.
Does saying this make me racist? No criticism, nothing not shiny and positive, ever; else you're racist? Seriously?
I was once told that if you are a minority, you can't be racist. I know that doesn't sound rational. I grew up in Toronto, never even met or spoke to a black person until I was in my 20s. Just so you know, a persons skin colour doesn't make me hate. Any person I have ever seen with really dark skin looks beautiful. I think Asian women are gorgeous. I'm not crazy about men period. Long ago Canadas immigration was based on British views, England good, the farther east in Europe that people came from, the less desirable they were. Later Canada opened the gates on immigration. Entire neighborhoods, even towns were crowed with other ethnic populations. Most of the violent crimes in Toronto comes from one ethnic group. The police are not allowed to publish statistics because they would look racial. I had some friends from this group but after I noticed how much most hated white people, I quit. People come to Canada and they hate white people before they even get here. But they are not racist because they are in minority. Well they were, if you are a caucasian living in Toronto now, you are a minority member, thats how much immigration we have..
By criticizing China you are not racist. By my understanding, being a minority you can't be. I got cheated, lied to and robbed in China. I'm not a racist I'm a victim, a sexist maybe, a homophobe for sure. But I'm entitled to my views and feelings, I can even try to understand why Marty is gay.
mArtiAn:
Who d'what now? I'm gay??? Shit, my wife 'is' going to be disappointed.
LAR:
Ted, I appreciate the comments. Yeah, if the Orientals already hate Canada,the United States,England,etc. then DON'T GO THERE!! It's very simple. Oh, but there's what's called a Love-Hate relationship! "I............gay." Too funny..ha ha!!!!!!! You're right..you,etc. are entitled to expressing your feelings..some on this website have a hard time accepting. "I was............racist." That is nonsense.
Hugh.G.Rection:
Sorry Ted but I must disagree with this line in your post:
"I was once told that if you are a minority, you can't be racist."
To me that sounds like typical BNP propaganda, they (the BNP) are always citing cases of black on white crime and saying things like that's racism but we're not allowed to say so.
For clarification the definition of racism:
mArtiAn:
Hugh, we really do have to stop doing this. I've just posted something on this thread making pretty much exactly the same point. I'm beginning to think you and me have a telepathic connection. What number am I thinking of?
Hugh.G.Rection:
mArtiAn the number you are thinking of................. is 34-22-36........ am I right?
mArtiAn:
Ok...Hugh.........now that is just spooky.....how'd you do that?
I feel the same way about China. I met some nice people, there were a few things I liked, but as a whole, it was difficult to be happy there. Maybe it would have been different if I'd lived in a bigger city, or got a boyfriend, or learned some of the language, or a million other what ifs. In China, it seems like anything negative about anything Chinese is taken personally, whereas people in a Western country might not. I think it has to do with the culture, insiders vs. outsiders. But that's not what would make me angry. What made me upset is that they never had a good explanation in reply, just that things are different in China, or that I was wrong, or some other excuse.
Regardless, I don't think disliking a culture or country is racism, unless it is hate for no real reason, like listening to rumors. I doubt you hate China. There are a few things that I miss (mostly foods) that aren't strong enough to pull me back. My next goal is Japan. Now there's a country that I would say involves racism on the part of some Chinese.
snowballeffect:
As far as I've read sme of the Japanese favorite hobbies while they occupied China was rape and beheading. Still fresh in a lot of peoples minds here. If UK and USA had an occupying force like that then viewpoints might be a bit different there.The Germans bombed the shit out of the UK, but its only in the last 10-20 years were people have mostly embraced the Germans. In addition, given that the UK was far more developed than China after the 2nd World War its little surprise to me that there is still ill-feeling here towards the Japanese.
Jnusb416:
I have no problem with ill feeling towards Japanese soldiers of the time, or the Japanese government, and I would never try to deny what happened. But when you ask them if they like Japanese cartoons? Yes, they do. Do they like Japanese electronics? Yes. Do the guys like Japanese porn? Yes. Do they know that the average Japanese person had nothing to do with it? Yes. Yet they still hate the Japanese. They can't see any similarities they have with Japan, only differences. I suppose what I am most upset about is that so very few of them do their own research, so very few of them understand that Japan was a different country then, and so was China. We should not forget horrible things that happened, they help us remember not to repeat such things in the future. But I think in this case, it is holding China back.
snowballeffect:
Did you not just defeat your own argument there, the fact that until now they openly embraced Jaanese 'products'means that they had forgiven to a degree. However, I'm not gonna dictate to anyone when they should 100% forgive and which countries products they should buy.I'dlike to by some stuff from Cuba at the mo, but its causing me a real problem :(
nope, disliking a place doesn't make one racist. and being able to say one dislikes something is a basic human freedom.
ElenaDob:
THANKS a million for saying that. Hugh called me a racist because I said I dislike Chinese New Year (see How to survive Chinese New Year with Chinese in laws) & I am not Chinese.
It's been said many times and proved many times that Chinese people, (at least most of the people I have encountered) are not capable of accepting criticism. They have thin skin and take observations such as, "Why are the bathrooms so disgusting?" as a an attack on their country as a whole.
Racism is an entirely different thing.
The West tries to undermine the Chinese government through issuing 'Nobel peace' prizes, using Tibet and Taiwan as puppets, attempting to instigate revolutions like in Libya, Syria, Egpyt.
Is it any wonder given the above that they don't like us critisizing their country. But yes, it doesn't make you a racist, it probably just makes us bad mannered guests (and no-one likes them), after all no-one forced us to come here (and don't say your company forced you to come here, please)
Oh and a final point, the Chinese are taught that their family and their country are the most important things, so therefore are taught tolove China. 1 persons 'human right' is not put above the country's development. Who's to say that is wrong, Americans, us British - like widespread discrimination has never happenned in our countries.
snowballeffect:
Have the guys who downgraded me been to school or were you just born like that?
crimochina:
the dictator in eygpt was a friend to the us. the people they elected are not friendly to the usa. gadafi was doing business with many western countries.
LEARN TO MAKE A LOGICal argument
snowballeffect:
Crimo, my argument was merely a rapidly written snippet, I'm not interested in righting full dissertations on here. I think you'll find if you do a bit of research that the 'West' - mainly US, and my country, the UK, supported most of these 'dictators' (not my words) and then funded the rebels. Maybe you need to go to school first before you start trying to educate me on how to make a logical argument.
snowballeffect:
Osama, Gaddafi, Saddam...........am I wrong??????? I'm confused now!!!
mArtiAn:
Yeh, that stuff about instigating revolutions as a means to overthrow heads of state that aren't sympathetic to certain western aims is kind of an old trick. It's Machiavelean but very very real. Started with Mohammad Mosaddech in Iran when the CIA managed to stir up a revolution for only a few million dollars. Now that's value for money.
See Zeitgeist Addendum. Available on youku or itudou and at all major video stores for only 13.95 plus VAT.
Yeh, sure, you don't like China = you are a racist. Where's the confusion?
Haha, I haven't seen anyone say any such thing on this forum. Not once. I'd suggest that anybody who were to say that disliking China means you're racist must be some sort of moron. Where did you read that, i'd like to take a look?
mArtiAn:
Seems like there actually are a lot of people (or six at least) who think that disliking China 'does' mean you are racist. Afraid to speak up about it though I guess.
I don't like China, of course isn't racist, nor have I ever said it is.
Why are the bathrooms so disgusting, is not racist but it IS a sweeping generalisation because the inference is that ALL the bathrooms are disgusting.
If this was a site say, called eaustraliancities and someone came on and said I don't like Australia, not many people would say anything, but if someone came on and said I hate Australia because the people are alcoholic aborigines, then I would expect someone to comment, probably negatively, on such an outrageous sweeping generalisation especially as that one (the example) almost certainly IS racist. Now SOME Australians may be alcoholic and SOME most definitely ARE Aborigines, and some people may well have encountered some alcoholic Aborigines, but that does not mean (as is inferrred) that ALL Australians are such.
That is what I try to highlight on this site, when I see it. That's all.
nevermind:
Uh, well that's cause saying aussies are drunk aborigines targets a specific race of people, FFS, I would have thought THAT distinction would be obvious.
Also, sometimes some of us make negative statements about Chinese, but I believe many make these statements which are directed at Chinese in China, and not at all Chinese people in the world. That makes a big difference.
It may be directed at the people who live here and are a part of this country. They have been influenced by a different government than Chinese who are born in a western country. Different ways of doing business, different morals, different norms, etc.
And most negative comments that I have seen are in general terms, and even expressed when venting. We shouldn't say bad things about others, but if we do, it does not mean that it is racist just because their skin colour is different than the person making the statement. When we say 'Chinese' people in a statement, we are just descrbing the people who live here in China, and not all ethnic Chinese.
There's a select group of people, and by that I mean one person with numerous handles who complains about this. A typical irritating school marm type.
nevermind:
Oh god, the old Chinese wu mao trick of accusing others of doing exactly what they just accused you of doing. It's a dead giveaway.
Hugh.G.Rection:
LOL, heck you're even using the same language as you do when you're being Crimo, too obvious!
Oh god, the old bully's trick of accusing others of doing exactly what they just accused you of doing. It's a dead giveaway.nevermind:
Whatever. There's a distinct difference in you and I in that you are full of shit, and i am not.
Have fun Huge/Martian/loke
Hugh.G.Rection:
Oh what repartee, with rapier wit like that you must be a fearsome opponent in a debate! (end of sarcasm)
mArtiAn:
Actually Nevermind, we 'are' separate accounts. If you think about it you will realize it too. If you read any of our posts you will recognize very different personalities, styles of writing, areas of expertise, and a number of other distinguishing factors, and to keep up such a lie as you and some others have suggested would be more than creative, it would be more than obsessive, it would be undeniably insane. Now I certainly have the odd screw loose, but I am not a full-blown, Sybil schitzo, rolling around in my own faeces, crazy-ape bonkers, wack-job, loony-toons, off th'rails nut. But then again, if I was, I guess I wouldn't know it anyway, right? So shit, maybe you're right. Hmmmm. This definitely requires some thought.
nevermind:
Stop showing off how slow you are. We're not "debating" here.
mArtiAn:
Jeez, is everything a battle with you? Really, I mean, you call yourself Nevermind, but you seem to mind and be up in arms against most things.
(SOB!) Why can't we all just get along, like decent human be....oh fuck it, just blow me, you loser. And in fact, who on Earth are you to call 'anyone' slow? After 4 months you still haven't worked out that me, Hugh and Loke are completely different people. That is not very impressive. Jeez, I used to think you and Crimo were one account until I saw this pic of you two at play together. In fact why am I even talking to you? You fancy yourself as possessing of an intellect, and are clearly an intellectual snob, but you don't have the smarts to work out the most obvious thing. You're no more worthy of my attention than a chimp. End of. Finito. Fini. Fin.
nevermind:
OOO Martian gets all pissy cause I won't pretend he's not an idiot. Kiss my ass.
mArtiAn:
You seem to be way too busy talking out of it, thanks all the same. Talking with your mouth full too by the look of it.
MissA you are right about what is classed as raciest in Australia
but not liking a place is not raciest as long as you don't say why
and as Ted said if you are in a minority you can't be a raciest.
now I have good news / bad news for you.
Soon here in Australia we will be the minority.
mArtiAn:
That doesn't make sense, of course you can be racist if you are a minority. Racism just means to have a negative opinion of a person you do not know, purely for reason of their race.
philbravery:
Try telling that to a certain group of people who think that their religion gives them the right to say what they what without reprisals
you POM's have the same problem
mArtiAn:
Who, Muslims? Yeh, I don't follow all this fight, but it doesn't make any difference, not as far as I can see. The meaning of the word seems pretty straight-forward and clear. Don't know shit-all about Muslims but i've never had any trouble with one.
TedDBayer:
According to the above def, if I say Chinese women are the most beautiful in the world , I'm a racist. It doesn't have to be a negative view.
mArtiAn:
According to which definition? Mine? Hmm, you may be right. You damn racist.
No you aren't a racist if you don't like China or don't like other Countries/Cities/Towns etc etc.
Although there are a lot of people who will view it as racist at face value. They are wrong for thinking that way but sadly that's how a lot of people think.
I don't like China. It's a shit place to live due to the pollution and the overbearing police presence where I stayed. I found the people I worked for to be dishonest and money grabbing. The food gave me the runs on a daily basis and the beer is so weak it might as well have a license from Evian. And it's served warm, that's just wrong.
Anything racist here? Don't think so.
On the other hand:
I don't like China. The Chinese are retarded and can't even serve a cold beer. All the people I worked with were dishonest money grabbers with no sense of decency. It's something that's bred into them.
Now, THAT IS racist.
mArtiAn:
Ok Yian, I shall quote from you, if I may: The Chinese are retarded and can't even serve a cold beer. All the people I worked with were dishonest money grabbers with no sense of decency. It's something that's bred into them.
Sorry, i'm afraid i'm going to have to disagree with you here; I think that the only thing you said here that I would class as racist would be the first sentence about the Chinese being retarded. Your saying that they can't serve a cold beer might also be classed as racist but hardly counts as a hate crime. Saying that the people you worked with were dishonest money-grabbers with no sense of decency is a matter of personal, first hand experience and observation and is a sentence in no way designed to reflect on the Chinese race as a whole, and finally your observation that these things are bred into people, I believe, is pretty much a universal truth of all people and hardly warrants a further hate crime rating. So by my calculations, given that only a meagre ten percent of your text was truly racist in content, I am only able to award you a hate crime rating of four. But a fine effort none the less, so don't be disheartened and better luck next time.
snowballeffect:
Don't be disheartened Yian, Adolf only got 3/10. Onwards and upwards.
The police were probably just following you around because you're so popular. Hope you still have the runs.
crimochina:
in urumqi the police is over bearing. if you are going to pose as a foreigner please read properly. he said the police where he lives
snowballeffect:
Well, if he was just discussing the area he lived in, why was his first words ' I don't like CHINA.' Would he not be better saying, I don't like the area of China I lived in instead of generalising about the whole of China.
You guys really don't like it when people have an open mind do you?
MissA:
Yep, Urumqi is definitely police-heavy.
And snowball effect, the government propaganda is that Xinjiang is inalienably a part of China. He's following the government line there.
I was stopped in the street a couple of times - and the sight of heavily armed police marching in groups of 8 to 10 through the 'ethnic' (read Uyghur) areas was a sight to warm anyone's heart.
snowballeffect:
It is a part of a China, why would you say it's not!!!! You guys go half way around the world to wage war on Muslims all in the name of oil (sorry human rights). Why is China not allowed to prevent its OWN country from turning into another Pakistan, Afghanistan......Tibet is another prime example of naive westerners jumping on the human rights wagon.
You guys really are so blind as to what your own country is up to you. I think its you who's been brainwashed by your countries propoganda. Try reading between the lines for a change. Welcome to China!
Jnusb416:
Um...MissA is Australian. What is all this blaming Americans stuff going on? I really don't get it.
very simple saying chinese are .... . is not racist. it is a general statement directed at chinese nationals (mainlanders) . it is not a generalization against asian people.
if i said brits are. .. . no one would would say that is racist, but it is the same damn thing. it is a general statement against people of a certain nationality, not against people of a certain race.
as for your question, of course not. but the ccp party line, carried out by it's paid internet commentators, is to call any foreigner who criticizes china a racist. any local who openly criticizes china on the net is called a foreign worshipper.
this idea if you do not like china you are a racist is more pettiness by the ccp , indoctrinated into the people of this country.
Wrong again Crimo a race of people is a group of people from an individual country so saying "the Chinese are...." or "the brits are....." can be determined as racist if the intent of that comment is to infer inferiority or superiority to that 'race' or countries people.
Just to give you my proof
race 1 (rs)n.
1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.
2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.
Source - http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Race
Of course you won't read this as again you have been proven wrong.
"b : a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics3a : an actually or potentially interbreeding group within a species; also : a taxonomic category (as a subspecies) representing such a groupb : breedc : a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits"http://www.merriam-webster.com
the german race refers to the race of people who lived in the area that is now germany, it is not a reference to the people living there now. european history is more complicated than chinese education teaches. there is no such thing as the chinese race. there is the more general term Asian and then it is broken down to more specifics. ethnic group mongolian, Han, manchurian, Hui (i maybe off with some of the names)tingdong ma?