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Q: I think China is not that bad after the NYC trip, actually I saw more good sides.
Now I feel China isn't that bad after the NYC trip. China is not great as China has it's own problem, but still not a bad country to live life.
America is great in some way, such as the freedom to criticize the government in front of the media, but it has some problem too, like the gun is legal there and I noticed that most people who do bad jobs are the black Americans. I heard good universities in the US are expensive for many Americans, but in China most families can afford to pay their kids to attend a good university.
A lot of westerners in China complain China has caused pollution, but can't just blame china alone right? China can't produce that much pollution if there's no demand for the cheap goods. The big currency exchange rate plays a big role in the world for the environment. You can't expect all humans to care the environment that much while they are thinking of their profit and low spendings.
A lot of westerners say that my 10000rmb salary isn't that much money, sure it is a shitty money in most western cities. But you can't just judge my salary in this way right? I'm a Chinese who makes 10000rmb a month in Shanghai, which is actually quite decent in Shanghai, I think the average salary in Shanghai is 6000-7000rmb. Remember that 1USD Dollars is 6.6rmb. It costes me 8-10 USD Dollars for a simple lunch in Mahattan. My rent in Shanghai is 2200rmb and I cook at home quite often or I eat out in most local restaurants cost around 15rmb. So I can get by 4000rmb for a month with all fee included.
Some say that my trip in NYC is wasted, but as the first time to visit this country, can't be expecting to get everything well explored right? Yes I didn't plan that much before the trip. It is a bit pity that I spent most of my visiting time on seeing the commercial side of New York. As most big commercial cities are similar, next time I'll go explore some more local stuffs.
But I talked with the New Yorker lives in the neighborhood and I talked with the NYC cop and the people I met there. Still good experience:)
But however to me the most special place is the place where my family is and where I grew up, it is my village. I really want to make it back to visit my family there, I start missing them and I know they are missing me too;(((
FYI: I just changed my post to express more feeling about my trip.
I'll be flying back to China at 1:45am tonight. 15 hours long flight! I hate the small seats and loud noise on the plane. Can't sleep well on the plane.
Not find anyone who wanted to marry you? Is that why you have decided that China is much better? Give it a week and you'll be asking advice on some dude who has fucked you and left you again.
Viki87:
Funny how do you know noo one wants me?
Because I am single? Don't you know many people who are single because they are quite picky?
You don't even know me.
I could tell you guys come to me everyday in New York, even the new york cop.
Why do you always think that man fucked me and left me? You are insane, in most case it is simply just relationship doesn't work out and people end naturally. Stop acting all dramatic.
mike168229:
I really do enjoy your engagement in these comments. You really think you are being smart in your answers but you are just exposing yourself more as a vacuous moron.
Do you even understand what being dramatic is? That's a rhetorical question by the way (oh, that means one that doesn't require an answer). If you did understand drama then you would know it is what you try to initiate every single fucking time you sit down at a keyboard. Dick.
Not sure what your point is about salary. 1000 rmb is a low salary even by Chinese standards....In Shanghai hardly livable...It would be equivalent to living in New York City on $800 month....Near impossible.
Anyways, too bad you didnt find someone who could show you New York State...The countryside...mountains..Lake Placid...the Finger Lakes..the Catskills...Saratoga...That;s the wealth..NYC is just the facade..and I agree with you it has been downgraded and lost a lot of it's lustre, talent and cultural preminence...
It sounds like you didn't have anyon eto show you the City more intimately....how to spend the day seeing the sights (Met Museum...Guggenheim..Central Park...Coney Island...Brooklyn, etc) and mix them with more personal special and personal off-the-radar clubs and restaurants...If you are there alone and don't know the place it can be formidable and foreboding..You will just miss the comforts of home and realize how alone you are...Same as any city...It's how you integrate.
Viki87:
When did I say I just make 1000rmb? Could you be more logical? How is it even possible?
Shining_brow:
I don't think she was really going for the cultural aspect... just the "New York is famous - I have to go"...
seansarto:
I read 1000 when you first posted...might have been my mistake...might have been yours...either way, it is a simple error and I seriously doubted you made 1000...1000 would be impossible unless living on the streets or being housed by another...and that is totally possible in Shanghai...especially for xiaosans
Yeah I don't understand your point about the salary thing either.
If people complain about a salary of 10000 in Shanghai it's because 10k a month doesn't go very far and they won't have much left after rent etc because Shanghai is an expensive place to live. It's not related to what you'd expect to earn in New York doing the same job and it's not a dig at you personally or at China.
And the pollution thing... yes China took a lot of the manufacturing jobs from Western countries and that's a big reason for all the pollution.
But, China didn't do it to 'save' other countries from pollution. China did it to make fast money and they were very eager for the opportunity to do it. No other reason.
If people complain about the pollution in China it's because they find it unpleasant. And it is unpleasant. People leave China because they can't deal with the dirty air, it's not some anti-China thing, it's just people worried about their health. The same people would probably leave any other place that had the same poor air quality.
Anyway, It's good that you came back happier to live where you do and if you get some pride from Shanghai being a lot like NY then that's good too.
Viki87:
Usually the people who complain 10000rmb doesn't go very far are the westerners, go talk with the local to find out if they think 10000 rmb is a good salary or not in Shanghai. The average salary in Shanghai is about 6000-7000rmb for an office worker. The fresh graduates have to take 5-7 years to earn that much.
I pay 2200rmb for a single apartment out of the city, I cook at home, I can live by 4000rmb for a month. So I saved almost half of my salary. How much percent you guys can save back home with your dollars? I bet most westerners can't get my salary if they are Chinese, 10000rmb is a money for senior office worker and not a lot of people are able to get. The westerners in Shanghai pays about 3000rmb for a single room in Shared apartment and get Ali to help cleaning. Tell me how many local office workers will do that? you guys aren't really think the Chinese salary with the Chinese currency and living cost here. If an individual wants to live more upgraded life than the majority of people and complain about money is too less, then who's fault?
Stiggs:
If someone is looking for a job and they have an idea of what sort they salary they want to make, what's wrong with not taking the jobs with a lower salary?
You have experience selling things Vicki and say you make 10000. That's fine and it's probably a fair amount, but if someone offered you a job doing the same thing for 6000 would you take it, or say that the salary was too low and not take the job?
That's all the foreigners are doing Vicki, trying to find the better jobs. Of course they can live cheaper but if they don't want to accept a job paying 10000 when they think they can find a much better job it's nothing against you, or China, it's just people looking for a better job.
Shining_brow:
China didn't "take" any jobs from anywhere.
Place the blame where it deserves to lie - the owners in the US who demanded more profit than could be made by using local factories.
Stiggs:
Yep Shining, you're right.
I didn't actually mean to say that China took the jobs, as in stealing the jobs. I just used took because I was quoting Vicki who I think meant it more like took on/ agreed to do the work.
Anyway, my point was that China didn't make itself the factory of the world to do anybody any favors or to save America from pollution as Vicki seemed to suggest, it was purely for their own reasons.
seansarto:
Agree with Stiggs but like to add that foreigners don’t have the benefits of guanxi...so when Chinese rip them off and then are protected by other Chinese..they require more money to recover..so as long as Chinesevrip foreigners off constantly they will always be in the position to demand more money than the average Chinese person does in China...that is one reason salaries are higher in the developed world...those countries have a more developed sense of equality and the costs are figured into their citizenship and taxation...more obvious is the fact that a foreigner lives on a visa and must return to their own economies of scale...they may also have bills to pay in their home countries...that must all be taken into account....taxation
Viki87:
"salaries are higher in the developed world" bullshit, maybe Chinese never been out of China will believe your fairy tale.1USD dollars=6.6USD dollars, it doesn't make Americans make more because they can change their salary to more rmb. Using more logical and stop selling bullshit to me. My normal simple lunch in some fast food resturant in Mahattan already cost me anout 10 dollars. Oh, that should be 66rmb. If I am a New Yorker tourist in China, probally 50rmb for a lunch is nothing for me in China which many Chinese who do not understand the currency exchange rate may feel I am so wealthy.
Viki87:
The Chinese suppliers want more profits and the US business owners want more profit too. Both of them are greedy when comes to business. Lol In business world, how many people care about environment that much while they could get more profit. So don't just blame China, blame your own country's businessmen and citizens who are seeking for much cheaper prices. By saying China helps to save the pollution from the western country, I don't really mean help saving. I mean you can't just blame on one side.
seansarto:
@vikii..Not bs...rent in NYC is 3x more than most places in Shanghai...also taxes in the USA...especially NYC are far steeper but I was going to mention in my last post how it seemed like China’s urban centers are trying to mimic the economic scale and lifestyles of NYC...and I did notice how the KFCs and McDonalds in China started to create parallels...and those parallels began to represent the idea of a Chinese middle class....Still in China you can live comfortably off 100RMBa day....in NYC , that’s roughly $15 and you can’make it through a day with that..Also in China going to McDonalds indicates wealth whereas in the USA it does not invoke that...the USA had lower and upper middle classes at this stage...continuing...’cause we never talk much...Ive alsomet a lot of 20 and 30 something year old Chinese women who fantasize about living the “Sex and the City” or “Friend’s” lifestyles even though it’s unrealistic in NYC..it is fictional....so when they get to NYC they realize it’s not like in the entertInment world and they realize they prefer China because in China they have been mimicking the entertainments attitudes successfully;
Viki87:
You know why Chinese take McDonalds and KFC as some middle class thing? Because it costes more than eating in most Chinese fast food resturant. I tend to think in a diffrent society view.Chinese, especially Chinese from smaller cities take those as middle class thing.
In NYC, those are just simply cheap fast food resturants to avoid tips.
If KFC and McDonald's trying to sell at the price local Chinese food cost, they won't be a middle class thing anymore.
Viki87:
You can't compare the living cost of New york to Shanghai likes that saying NEW York is 3 times more expensive or people can't make through a day by $15 there. You gonna consider the cureency exchange rate. RMB is a much much cheaper currency. Then go firgure if a New Yorker can make through a day by 660rmb.
100USD=660rmb, in new york, it is quite normal to eat a luch at $15 for a company employee.
Hmmmm, the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the hill. Who'd have guessed?
Viki87:
That's right. And the westerners are rude and put music on, chatting and loud while I was sleeping. Funny thing is many westerners in China keep complaining Chinese are rude blah blah blah. How funny is it?
ironman510:
Ah Viki that's because you don't see American's making a huge spitting sound or peeing on the street or driving car trying ram someone. I know you don't have the educational background to survive NY
haha, welcome home Viki.
Try Europe or Australia for your next trip!
Viki87:
I'll try Europe. Next time I'll try to get local people to guide me to experience more local stuff. As a tourist in New York, most things I have seen here in New York are commercial side which is similar to most big cities, gets boring as the time goes by.
My favoriate lunch food is in a local resturant in Brooklyn which is close to the Brooklyn bridge.
Blondie_:
@ Viki,
you can't expect local people to act as your guide when you are on holiday, people where you visit have their own lives - and it is just laziness on your part if you expect everyone to revolve around your whims.
By all mean ask directions to places on your itinerary, but adults do their research first before they travel.
Viki87:
Not saying to guide me all the time, but some would like to show me around.
They don't mind to do it
Can you please remove the "blacks", this is very rude and those people are no different than us or yourself a Chinese. Viki do you actually see that you're help younger guys here on this site become racist or to think with a racist mind? You're freaking sick! Please delete that "blacks" comment.
Shining_brow:
I read that statement a couple of times until I got what she was saying... most low-paying jobs, non-skilled, 'bad' jobs are done by black people... implying overt racism.
Now, whether that's true or not - I don't know. But it's her observation.
Should we now compare the racism in China to the racism in the rest of the world? Sure, there will be a lot of countries that will beat China hands down... but they're not likely to be very developed!
Englteachted:
Yeah right Shining, that's BS, Chinese think mechanics are bad jobs, they' think any low paying job is bad. They don't consider 'skill', I constantly have to tell people here that lawyers, doctors, mechanics, garbagemen and even janitors are well paid.
Viki87:
I am not trying to be racist by saying black, just for mentioning the people who have black skin in America got placed on most bad jobs. Yes, China is a racist country, but so is America. Probally the system in the US destoried black American's life.
Shining_brow:
Engles - I didn't say she was right! I was only explaining her comment.
It is unfortunately true, though. That's why, per capita, black people have a lower standard of living, and more unskilled jobs than whites. (Latinos, asians and... I can't immediately think of others atm can be part of this discussion if you want! But, basic socio-economics shouldn't be ignored!)
And, yes, I agree 110% - mechanics, electricians, plumbers, etc are high skilled jobs!
I wish more racist Chinese like you would like to stay in China better than the USA.
(I've been in China for over 10 years, here's what she's saying 'I can never afford to come here, I couldn't find a guy to marry (visa sponsor), so I'm saving face by just saying I don't like it' Sour grapes)
Viki87:
I can't find a guy to marry. I got so many guys came to me in New York. What are you talking about? Many are local guys, the policeman likes me, the guard likes me, the guy works Wall Street smiled to me and some other guys tried to ask me out or gave me namecards for wanting me to contact him. I am not married simply because I didn't find the right man, diffrent people have diffrent requirement for the right man, in that case, just consider me being picky. If I am like the rest of other women, I'll be already married many many years ago. I got more guys came to me than many other women ever experienced. No matter where I go, guys will look at me.
Englteachted:
wanting to bone you doesn't mean they like you, grow up child.
RE: pollution. This is 100% in the hands of the local authorities! Take a look at most other cities in the developed world with comparable population and density. (and surroundings)
Most are MUCH cleaner than Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou, Hangzhou, etc etc etc. Why? Because the local governments put restrictions and limitations in place. And, the factory owners either followed the law, or suffered punishment.
Are they 'perfect'? Mostly - no (there are exceptions in this regard) Are they better? Hell yes!
So, don't go blaming the pollution on the 'west' - blame it on those who invited the manufacturers here for reduced costs - including reduced environmental controls (and, thereby, the willingness to kill the people!)
USA is indeed crap and Europe isn’t better. Killed by political bulsshitness, and low quality immigrants I can easy relate that shanghai is way better to live. Sure in the West we should learn from china on how to manage immigrants 
Being said that this is the only thing we could learn from china. Proud to be chinese mainlander? Lmfao
Viki87:
There's another good thing about China, most family can afford to send their son/daughter to good university.
Gun is not allowed in China, which makes us feel more safe. In the US, I tend to be more careful as I know gun is legal in this country. If someone shoots you, you can barely have time to run.
China has China's problem, but the country has its good side too.
Viki87:
And you have the pride to be a westerner and didn't try to see the Chinese culture in a diffrent way. Who said everything in western is betrer, it is not. And it is hard to judge which society is better because there are many culture mindset involved.
Like westerners are laughing about Chinese for drinking the hotwater culture? I did feel more comfortable to drink hotwater when I felt sick during my girl period time. Some westerners mock that Chinese body is diffrent by saying Chinese making such hotwater thing up in their mind. My body Possibly is diffrent from you guys, you aren't me, how come you sure that I make such thing up? Stop being judgemental, I agree drinking hotwater in hot days might a bit too much but I do feel drinking hotwater helps my body in many circumstance. I don't feel well to drink water has ice in often.
Not find anyone who wanted to marry you? Is that why you have decided that China is much better? Give it a week and you'll be asking advice on some dude who has fucked you and left you again.
Viki87:
Funny how do you know noo one wants me?
Because I am single? Don't you know many people who are single because they are quite picky?
You don't even know me.
I could tell you guys come to me everyday in New York, even the new york cop.
Why do you always think that man fucked me and left me? You are insane, in most case it is simply just relationship doesn't work out and people end naturally. Stop acting all dramatic.
mike168229:
I really do enjoy your engagement in these comments. You really think you are being smart in your answers but you are just exposing yourself more as a vacuous moron.
Do you even understand what being dramatic is? That's a rhetorical question by the way (oh, that means one that doesn't require an answer). If you did understand drama then you would know it is what you try to initiate every single fucking time you sit down at a keyboard. Dick.
'I like China more after NYC trip'
OMG. Never go to USA again!
Viki87:
I didn't say I like China more than America. Just saying that I like China more than before, I hate a lot of things in China, lack of political freedom, unorganized dirty resturants, staring.,etc But after the US trip, it made me feel that China still have many good sides to live, like job opportunities, less teorrism.,etc.
But with regards to personal reference, I prefer living in the US because people there understands me better while I talk to them
so you went to New York and it didn't live up to your expectations that were based on TV/movies? Big surprise.
you didn't like life outside your comfort zone and it sounds like you didn't even bother to do your preparation and research prior to traveling.
I mean who has to ask questions on tipping while on holiday? this is the sort of stuff you do prior to traveling, like having a check list of some things you are going to see.
i know where is on my 'must see' list when i travel to New York
What did you honestly expect on a holiday?
millionaires throwing themselves at you after you let them finger you (in car parks)?
Wall Street companies offering you multi-million dollar jobs based on your ability to piss co-workers off and trashing clients and your short-fuse when dealing with other people?
regarding the level of pollution.
most civilized countries have pollution emission standards that are enforced, so don't blame other countries for China's pollution problems.
the responsibility lies completely with Chinese companies who put profits first (it is possible to manufacture things to environmentally friendly standards, the technology is there. but Chinese company owners are too greedy to bother about the long-term as it cuts into profits)
the most laughable thing is that you base your impression of the rest of the world on a 10 day holiday in New York. If you mind is so closed to other countries and cultures, don't bother traveling outside of China again.
DirkBourne:
As usual you make some good points that will be missed by her.
Her trip was a failure; no decent men interested or numerous job offers lol so MAYBE she will wake up and grow up!
Viki87:
It is just a 8 days trip( on the 8th day, I don't even want to go out for getting s good relaxing for a long flight ahead), by talking that no decent man is interested in me sound ridiculous. I barely even have time to look for a date, I spent most of my time to explore those places in New York and New Jersey area near New York. I don't think most people will approach girls in the street, probally most people are still a bit of shy to do that and it is also not common to approach people by social sense. But I did get approached by several guys in hostel while I was relaxing in the common place, it is me don't like them.
No company offered me job there? By saying that, don't you make yourself sound stupid? I didn't even look for job there, how come anyone offered me a job?
It is you need to wake up and grow up and stop acting that you know my life well and stop acting that you are better than me.
I hate while westerners in China acting like they are smarter than local Chinese while they aren't that great even.
Blondie_:
@ Viki
you are an open book with all you have been posting over the years on ECC
i believe you dated an American junkie at one point, amongst other 'charmers'.
you ignore good, sound practical advice and suggestions over and over again, and then get angry at people who give you the advice.
you are the one who complained about the guys in New York
http://answers.echinacities.com/question/am-i-such-bad-girl-right
http://answers.echinacities.com/question/why-only-those-creepy-old-man-kept-coming-me-street
did you really expect people to approach you on the street - if you can't understand why they don't approach you, you really don't understand people at all. i'll tell you this much, shyness is not the reason. They just have more important things to do.
and you stayed in a hostel and complained about the other guests there?
'westerners' as you call them, have more life experience than you do especially when it comes to travel.
keep posting Viki
I point your posts on ECC out to others as an insight to the Chinese mind
(hint - you forgot to down-thumb me in a fit of impotency)
DirkBourne:
viki your original post was typically you You only changed it because of all the negative comments.
Blondie_:
@Dick
i notice Viki is now complementary of her family - a group of people she trashed online earlier this year.
There is something very desperate about posters who change their 'questions' or comments - it makes them seem so unreliable. Being unreliable (and not keeping their word) is an unfortunate trait of many Chinese 'professionals' I have encountered.
Viki87:
All you people do is to trash other people and say every shit to make China look bad. I agree it is a country has a lot of problem, but I don't see it is really that bad to live. If it is all that bad, why don't you just leave China? I have the freedom to change my post, I try to see and judge things in a more open minded way. I can tell you the main reason I changed my post, that was my last conversation with a New Yorker before I leave America. What make you people pathetic is that you live in China but all you do is talk shits about China. I really don't like westerners who suddenly acting like noble while living in China and complain about China all the time. I have met nice westerners who are friendly, polite and helpful and also I have met westerners who are rude and selfish in New York.
Blondie_:
@Viki
if you read other people post's (not only the ones you write) can see that they are a mixture of positive and negative things about China, not only negative.
People would post the same thing mixture of positive and negative things about their home countries.
A lot of what you have posted, certainly this year, has been trashing your colleagues and your family, and posting your sexual exploits (believe me i don't think people really want to hear about that).
If you showed some interest in other people, as well as sympathy and support, as many of the posters on this site show each other regularly, you will find people will be more supportive of you in return. Whereas if you trash people and their advice, and resort to name calling, you will get little sympathy in return.
I have noticed that posters give you the benefit of the doubt again and again, and try responding positively after you after you hurl unwarranted abuse at them, but you quickly seem to revert to 'hurt feelings' rather than logically engage and understand what they have said.
I can bet good money you won't read every word i have written, only picking out some and guessing the meaning you want, and as sure as anything.
I have nothing but hope that you have a more positive future, but how people react to you here online is in your hands.
Viki87:
Could you stop twisting the so called advice?How could you understand the situation so well to give the right advice, I am the one in the situation, I am the one suppose to judge, but not by you people.
I am seeking for advice, doesn't mean I have to listen every advices I have received. Don't you understand, you bunch of so called "mature nice" people?
I am just consulting, I don't have to take every advice, I have a mind to judge my situation and make my own decision based on other people's adviced(opinions).
Why don't you nver get the point? Are you too stupid or something?
And by saying giving people advice, some posters insulted me too while in the name of giving advice. So stop acting like you are the fairy god mother who is very kind.
I am just so fed up with a bunch of bullshit here. If you don't like my post, just don't reply, simply like this. I have no interest to know you or care about who you are.
How do you know that you know my life so well to judge? You didn't even meet me yet?
It is funny that you start all those dramas like saying those guys are players and that I am the one got palyed. Please, stop being all that judgemental, you don't know them well too. Even a guy who isn't playing can choose to end a relationship.
Shining_brow:
"the responsibility lies completely with Chinese companies who put profits first (it is possible to manufacture things to environmentally friendly standards, the technology is there. but Chinese company owners are too greedy to bother about the long-term as it cuts into profits) "
I disagree!
I put it firmly in the hands of the government, who have allowed the companies to get away with it (because of hongbaos). ALL corruption starts at the top!
NYC is a state of mind...you have to appeal to its sentiments and in order to do that you have to find its sentiments appealing
diverdude1:
I suggest watch Woody Allen movies,,, especially Annie Hall, to begin to get the feel of NY,,, and Harry met Sally too... maybe there are some more up to date movies that capture the feeling? And every episode of Seinfeld! I thought that show captured the vibe quite well. I still like when Jerry accidentaly dropped his gf toothbrush in the toilet,,, haha
An average hotel costs $152?!
I used to frequent stay in Manhattan and never paid more than $50 a night for a hotel.
Viki87:
Where did you get a $50 hotel? Maybe on airbnb you could get in Brooklyn, I saw a guy provided a single room around 50 dollars in Brooklyn.
FYI: Any idea about the security of renting someone's room on airbnb?
Viki87:
I think hotel in Chinatown's price is raised. I think it is hard to find $50 for a night in Chinatown now
Englteachted:
Of course there are hotels for less than 50 and around 50 a night., Viki is just your typical mainlander that thinks she knows more about foreign countries than foreigners. She did no research, relying purely on what other Chinese said and quite possibly only Chinese websites
Viki87:
I did look hotel on foreign websites and I booked my hostel from a foreign website.
And you are acting like you know me a lot ?
Possibly Spider could find it much easier than me, you gotta understand that I am a foreigner in America, it will be much harder for me to find cheaper hotel and cheaper place to eat.
In Shanghai, I know where to get good lunch under 15rmb easily because I have been here for too long, but it won't be easy for those tourists or new comers.
Spiderboenz:
I always used Priceline.com/Expedia.com (hotel websites)
