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Posts: 57

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Q: If you could make them watch any movie or read any book...

Are the youth in China as susceptible to media messages as their Western counterparts, and if so, what books or films would you wish older students and perhaps even younger adults to read or watch to effect the changes in them that you would like to see in Chinese society? My own answer would be some selections from Plato on the intrinsic value of virtue, the Gospel of Luke (it contains the Parable of the Good Samaritan which encourages random selfless acts for strangers and promotes intercultural if not also international respect, the Parables of the Lost Sheep and the Lost Coin, which emphasize the worth of the individual; the Golden Rule which encourages internalized egalitarianism, and some statements on the importance of forgiveness and others that refute materialism); the movie The Matrix because, duh, it's China; Anna Sewall's 1877 novel Black Beauty, in the hope that it might ignite the same flame for animal welfare sentiment that it did in the Western world; and Disney's Tangled to suggest to Chinese girls that their mothers might not be the storehouses of wisdom and virtue that they claim to be.

9 years 21 weeks ago in  Arts & Entertainment - China

 
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You assume too much.

 

1.  You assume that the West is in a good position to teach culture to the Chinese.  They are not.

2.  You assume that the Chinese will be better off with Western culture.  'Aint necessarily so.

3.  Finally, you seem to think reading a book, without auxiliary support will have any sort of impact.  It will have none.

 

Everyone assimilates ideas and concepts according to the language of their culture.  We understand the book 1984 in a way that reinforces our cultural language and way of life.  We see what we are conditioned to see.  American's distrust of authority will cause them to see things in a different light than a Chinese whose not supposed to think too much.

 

In the end, each country has chosen (or should choose) it's own culture.  Do we stand on "holy" ground?  Are the western nations providing such a sterling example? Better to give them that book so they can have a fire.  It would be of better use there.

QDasmond:

If reading has no effect on people, why does anyone think to prohibit access to certain websites (aside from YT and FB)? I am more inclined to think that reading would have no effect because, as others have said, their capacity to think critically and internalize the messages conveyed in narratives has atrophied under their poor educators' direction, rather than think that books are useless.

9 years 20 weeks ago
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xinyuren:

You ignored the whole statement, didn't you? Reading a single book alone will have little to no affect, and as you said,  their cultural lens will mitigate the effect that you seem to desire.  It's just a drop in the pan.

9 years 20 weeks ago
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9 years 20 weeks ago
 
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Posts: 352

Shifu

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 Let them watch that we always think of them as Kongfu fighters or geeks or unattractive men for our women or attractive women for our men.Stereotyping in Hollywood movies against Chinese is that much that you didn't even notice it.

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9 years 21 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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They should watch Bicentenial Man for an understanding of what it means to be human and read Plato for ideas on the organisation of society. Of course they would need a course on critical thinking first to really appreciate what they are reading and seeing.

xinyuren:

Watch Bicentennial Man?  OMG, what a horrid movie.  They should read the story instead.  Excellent source material that the screenwriters really messed up.

9 years 21 weeks ago
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QDasmond:

Agreed. The film was awful and filled with the idea that the most authentic expression of human nature is, in fact, screwing up and making mistakes (I guess that means the War in Iraq was a wonderful example of idealistic humanity). It glorifies that dangerous notion, and manages to do so with a production value so low and a script so inappropriately sweet and sappy that it comes off as a Hallmark Channel special.

9 years 20 weeks ago
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9 years 21 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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1984 but I don't think they would really get the point or be able to look at themselves and their society critically

Samsara:

On of my former Chinese colleagues said she read half of 1984 and got so depressed she had to stop reading. I think we can consider that a success.

 

9 years 20 weeks ago
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QDasmond:

Indeed, Samsara.

9 years 20 weeks ago
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DrMonkey:

I know two people who read it, and they told me "Wow, it's definitely like in 1950-1980". So no, not all people are blind or self-deluding. Just not saying it loud and clear.

9 years 20 weeks ago
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dongbeiren:

I wouldn't doubt that plenty of people would understand the message of 1984 and look at their own society through that lens but I'm going to say that most of the masses wouldn't have the slightest clue

9 years 20 weeks ago
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9 years 20 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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They should read animal farm.

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9 years 20 weeks ago
 
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I would not want to force anyone to read a specific book or watch a particular movie.

 

We advocate free will. Forcing people to do something because you have a point of view you want others to agree with is wrong.

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9 years 20 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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I would let them watch The Simpsons, and after the whole series seen, then let them see South Park. And than, we could have a nice conversations for hours and hours ...

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9 years 20 weeks ago
 
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well obviously....

 

  A Clockwork Orange

 

*movie. the book is too damn hard to read

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9 years 20 weeks ago
 
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Governor

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There is so much 'them' and 'they' in this question it is cringe-worthy. Why are we forcing people to read books or watch films?!

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9 years 20 weeks ago
 
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Let's throw in the face and force-feed to people 1984 and Animal Farm to teach a lesson, it's totally gonna work. No no, does not sound at all like "I'm a superior and benevolent creature, listen to my wisdom, you naive child". And I'm sure it's in the spirit of those books to use them as dogmas (Ho the irony !) It's a bit like spreading freedom and democracy with carpet-bombing and cruise missiles : people see the explosion, the crater and the flying limbs, and they forget to see the intention. How ungrateful !!!
 

I meet a few Chinese people who read 1984, on their own. My wife, for example, and a friend of her. Don't except to have the same interpretation as the one you might have, of course. I think suggesting ideas of books will work better if you speak of Chinese literature you read too, to not appear overly arrogant and ignorant. Even better, Chinese literature have gems defending the ideas you want to pass on : Lu Xun is the one I know well. He wrote about many things we tends to rant about here, including medecine and beliefs, self-deluding behaviour, social issues, etc. Because it was written by a Chinese for a Chinese public, you might get a better reception.

gouxiong:

Oh! Absolutelly agree! Exactly my thought when I read the original question! We know better and therefore we have the full right to spread the 'only wisdom' (OUR 'wisdom'!) to the rest of the world. And the only reason why the others are so different is because they so far did not reach our mental heights .... So far I did not read anything from Lu Xun but I will certainly try :)

9 years 20 weeks ago
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diverdude1:

Yes, ungrateful to those who stormed the beaches of Normandy.  But of course we could have just asked the Third Reich (Adolph & Joe) nicely to leave those Jews/Armenians/Belorus/Slavs/gays alone.  I'm sure he would have if we had just sat down over some tea and crumpets. Honestly he was just misunderstood and needed a hug. as did Saddam.  photo 220px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-031-2436-03A_Russland_Hinrichtung_von_Partisanen-2.jpg

9 years 20 weeks ago
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DrMonkey:

@gouxiong I don't believe that all opinions and ideas are equal, some are more defensible than others, you can prove things to be wrong, etc. Education system being what it is in China, I hear/see blatant absurdities, in medicine for example. Sadly, humans being what they are, saying "I'm right, you are not" rarely works.


Sometime you might feel you *do* know better, and in some case, you might even *indeed* know better ! Great, you know better, and you want to transmit your wisdom. If you go like "I know better, STFU and *throw a book* read this", it will just fail. It will work better if you try establish a dialog, an exchange, and you bring-in local cultural elements. Jesuits were very good at that game ^^ And it requires a rare patience, which I don't have half of the time.

9 years 20 weeks ago
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DrMonkey:

@diverdude1 WTF ?! Thank you for the reduction ad-hilterum, that's fresh and subtle. I'm not saying that 1984 and Animal Farms are garbage, they are great read. I'm not arguing that freedom and democracy are not nice ideas to spread. I'm not arguing that either fighting is or is not necessary to defend your sovereignty. It's the way to introduce books that I'm arguing about.

9 years 20 weeks ago
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diverdude1:

 It's a bit like spreading freedom and democracy with carpet-bombing and cruise missiles : people see the explosion, the crater and the flying limbs, and they forget to see the intention. How ungrateful !!!

 

my apologies Doc.  I'm just a bit defensive about this.  All those standing around safe and secure while the service members risked life/limb to stop the murderers of innocents.  (yes, I am aware that innocents die stopping the murderers and I agree violence is not the best/ultimate answer)

9 years 20 weeks ago
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gouxiong:

DrMonkey, I do not want to say that I consider everything around me perfect (unfortunatelly irrespective of my location :) ). However I see a vast difference between noticing the things which I may consider bad (and trying to influence the changes where I find it appropriate) and enforcing my own standards more or less irrespective of my counterpart oppion. I do not think my culture is superior to any other and I also do not believe that any other culture is superior to mine. However I see a great chance for enriching myslef by free and respectful interaction with another cultures.

9 years 20 weeks ago
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DrMonkey:

@gouxiong The line between "I don't enforce my own standards in foreign land" and "I use this to justify anything and everything as the local way" is very thin and often crossed & abused in China, the "famous XXX with Chinese characteristics" expression ;)

9 years 20 weeks ago
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gouxiong:

DrMonkey, I agree with you. However I assume this is already a different topic. I was referring to original question which I found, in its currently presented form, a bit arrogant.

I just wanted to say that the thing I may consider negative may not necessarily be seen that way by my surrounding environment and this all irrespective of the fact, that given thing can objectively be really bad (for instance a lot superstions in South China which are based on conditions 1000 years ago - and that time were probably helpful - but nowadays may quite negatively effect health conditions).

9 years 20 weeks ago
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dongbeiren:

But force feeding Western values always works! Look at George W. Bush's thriving democracy in Iraq. Oops!

9 years 20 weeks ago
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gouxiong:

dongbeiren, yes - that's also my point. And unfortuantelly you may add so many other examples (including many African countries which are now in devastating war also as a consequence of previous colonization and during this time not totaly wise 'countries' management).

9 years 20 weeks ago
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Posts: 57

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Some have questioned why anyone would want to "force-feed" the locals Western values. In my case, it's because I would like for the Chinese to be happier and healthier both physically and psychologically. This forum is filled with our acknowledgments that they are unhappy, and both physically and psychologically unhealthy.Would you not agree that animal welfare is conducive to a good society? Would you not agree that the pursuit and cultivation of virtue is intrinsically good and likewise conducive to a good society? What about random selfless acts for strangers, intercultural respect, and the recognition of the worth of the individual? Would you like to see more people here embrace egalitarianism? Would you not like your wives and girlfriends to put their mothers' advice aside in some cases and think for themselves? Well, I do. This isn't about forcing a foreign culture upon anyone. Our desire to share some of the riches from the storehouse of our own world's experience is about reaching out and helping a people who seem sickly and miserable, a people burdened with superstition and uncaring leaders both at home and at large, not about Western smileydominance.

DrMonkey:

The way you try to achieve this is worth a lot of questions. How you do that without looking arrogant, without creating a rejection reaction, without making it look some indoctrination ?

 

Try to convince common people in the 1th century that the Earth is going around the Sun, not the other way. You might be right, but in the eyes of the majority, you will be just an angry guy shouting gibberish and crazy ideas. It will take incredible patience and diplomacy efforts to achieve. You would have to speak very good Mandarin, having extensive Mandarin literary knowledge and quote Chinese authors as much as possible. It sounds like a life-long dedication, and I really believe it's the only way to achieve what you wish efficiently.

Now, imagine a group of Chinese in your home town claiming, in Mandarin, that we should read Lu Xun for own good and the betterment  of the human kind. How much people will not laugh at it or just see annoying crazy people ? And those Chinese would be right and the town guys wrong, Lu Xun is a great author !!! But the approach would be self-defeating.

9 years 20 weeks ago
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xinyuren:

As Monkey mentioned, the force feeding approach rarely works.  You see, there is a human faculty that we all possess, Chinese and foreigner alike.  Its called free will.  And all humans like to use it.  In fact, if we are not allowed to use it, we get very irritable, to say the least.  It is almost always better to let a culture develop on it's own free will instead of being forced to accept some others point of view.  Experience tells me that influence is better accepted by example, and on that basis, most Western cultures are impotent.

9 years 20 weeks ago
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gouxiong:

Did I read correctly that in the statement about 'how good it is to {persuade} Chinese into some of {yours} values' you use the words - 'animal welfare'? Apparently we both come from different worlds ...

9 years 20 weeks ago
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9 years 20 weeks ago
 
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You assume too much.

 

1.  You assume that the West is in a good position to teach culture to the Chinese.  They are not.

2.  You assume that the Chinese will be better off with Western culture.  'Aint necessarily so.

3.  Finally, you seem to think reading a book, without auxiliary support will have any sort of impact.  It will have none.

 

Everyone assimilates ideas and concepts according to the language of their culture.  We understand the book 1984 in a way that reinforces our cultural language and way of life.  We see what we are conditioned to see.  American's distrust of authority will cause them to see things in a different light than a Chinese whose not supposed to think too much.

 

In the end, each country has chosen (or should choose) it's own culture.  Do we stand on "holy" ground?  Are the western nations providing such a sterling example? Better to give them that book so they can have a fire.  It would be of better use there.

QDasmond:

If reading has no effect on people, why does anyone think to prohibit access to certain websites (aside from YT and FB)? I am more inclined to think that reading would have no effect because, as others have said, their capacity to think critically and internalize the messages conveyed in narratives has atrophied under their poor educators' direction, rather than think that books are useless.

9 years 20 weeks ago
Report Abuse

xinyuren:

You ignored the whole statement, didn't you? Reading a single book alone will have little to no affect, and as you said,  their cultural lens will mitigate the effect that you seem to desire.  It's just a drop in the pan.

9 years 20 weeks ago
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9 years 20 weeks ago
 
Posts: 57

Governor

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Why did Samsara's answer disappear? cryingIt was a good answer.

Samsara:

"Mindless China bashing"

 

I would like to apologise for the mindless statements I made, and say that Chinese people are avid readers and discerning watchers of film. Their appreciation for sublime cinematic masterpieces such as Lost in Thailand and Transformers: Age of Extinction marks their nation and culture as amongst the most sophisticated.

 

And when I inarticulately called Chinese propaganda "blunt" and "primitive", what I meant to say was that Chinese propaganda is of the highest standard, and caters only to the most discerning minds.

 

9 years 20 weeks ago
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