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Q: An insight into Chinese life/thinking. And, can you believe it?

A man aged in his mid 30's recently went out with friends after work and drank an enormous quantity of baijiu.  So much so, that on his way home he fell over and didn't get up.  Because the winter out here is very cold (about minus 25 or so), he froze to death.

Very sad.  He was discovered by street cleaners early  the next morning.

No alarm was raised when he didn't come home because he lived with his mother and she had gone to bed.

Anyway, the upshot of the incident is that his employer is at fault.  And particularly his department.  And most particularly his department bosses.  That would include my wife.  

She, and others in the company, from top to bottom,  have had to write apologies to the man's family and undergo councilling/training.

According to prevailing thought/practice, the company, and all the senior people in it, failed in their duty of care to this man.

 

And so, the company has had to pay out compensation to the man's family.

 

The question again....Can you believe it!?

Got any other similarly nonsensical things that you can report?

 

 

 

9 years 8 weeks ago in  Culture - China

 
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It's not as bad as it sounds really.  I suspect officials were just doing what they could within the law to provide for his wife.  After all, the state won't help her out.  So it seems to me that someone tried to do something for her.  That's not a bad thing.

 

It reminds me of a similar story.  When I was in a company paid apartment there was a local handyman who used to do the odd jobs to be done.  Mr Chen was his name.  One day I mentioned to the wife the tap was leaking, could she get Mr Chen to have a look?

 

"No, he is dead"

 

"Errr"

 

They found him dead on the road, beside his mangled cycle. No investigation, no help for his widow. Swept up and forgotten.

 

In your case Royce, it's good that some official somewhere is trying to hold someone, anyone, to account under "duty of care".  It looks to me as if you have a local official who is as disgusted with the lack of compassion here as we are.  Next thing we know they will introduce a law to make it a crime to leave the scene of an accident.

 

Then again, maybe the local official is a corrupt dude who got a cut of the compensation.

 

ScotsAlan:

Just to add. If I was out with a mate who got so legless he could not walk, I would see it as my duty to get him home safe. We have all been there, both as the drunk and the carrier.

 

Ok, if he choked to death on his vomit in his bed, that's not my fault.  But if he froze to death at the side of a dusty road..... I would feel bad about that.  Nobody would have to force me to apologize to his widow.  I would be doing my best to make sure she was ok.

9 years 8 weeks ago
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royceH:

Yes, Al...we've all been there.  Well, I have.  And it sounds like you have too.

This bloke had no wife, he lived with his mother.  It had nothing to do with his workplace but, bad luck for them...

As for some kind of public recognition, and perhaps some financial assistance for his mother....whatever.  Ok.  

But it's not his company's bunny.  And it sure isn't my wife's bunny either.

But, in true retarded brainwashing CCP mentality style, the company people had to write letters of contrition.  Admitting they were negligent in their duty of care to someone who got pissed and fell over and froze to death in his own free time.

You tell me if you don't think that logic is fucked up!

 

 

9 years 8 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

Social responsabilty has to start somewhre. How many people walked past the drunk dude? How many people laughed at his him as he was so drunk he could not walk ? Did people encourage him to drink so they could laugh at him ? So now some official says there is a duty of care. An official says people need to look out for others. Are you saying ignoring people in distress is a good thing?

9 years 8 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

And now, because everyone has written those letters admitting responsibility, the wife can go to the courts and demand more money...

9 years 8 weeks ago
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9 years 8 weeks ago
 
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I thought this story was right up there in the stupid department.

 

http://www.echinacities.com/news/Company-Pays-Out-after-Man-Kills-Himsel...

 

 

 

 

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9 years 8 weeks ago
 
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I can only speak about American policy and law. Bars are required to guage the conditions of their patrons. They are to cut them off when they get too drunk. And, in some states, a drunk driver who injures or kills someone while drunk can come back against the businesses that served them alcohol.

I know there is no such responsibilities here in China. But, I have been at enough dinners and drinking events to see how Chinese will encourage someone to continue drinking far beyond their abilities. And, that drink person will continue drinking so not to loose face among his peers and bosses.

Anyone who encourages a drunk person to keep going should be held accountable. Just my opinion. My western moral codes says this.

Stiggs:

How do you know it wasn't the dead guy pressuring everyone else to drink? Anyway, if it was a social situation I don't think it should count.

9 years 8 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

You are full of shit and stupid to boot. 

1. His coworkers or even the damn company for that matter did not serve him anything. So this has no relation whatsoever. 

2. You have your facts wrong. The drunk driver can not legally hold the establishment liable. If the drunk driver inures anyone, the victim can legally hold the establishment responsible.

And that is a damn good law. That law forces bars to put safety first unlike in your China. 

Here is a tip for you to give to your masters. Focus on fixing your problems. And maybe you wouldn't have so many talented and intelligent people trying to leave for the country you are trying to knock.

9 years 8 weeks ago
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nashboroguy:

Sometimes you just have to brush the dirt from your feet and keep moving forward. I think that is called for here. God bless you brother.

9 years 8 weeks ago
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9 years 8 weeks ago
 
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That's outrageous. He should be fined for missing work without calling or providing a note from a doctor. Also he should pay a penalty for causing the company to lose face. 

Just because this is China, that doesn't mean you can fall down face first in the snow and die any old time you want. 

It's a shame your wife must write a letter and listen to counseling. Be strong!

royceH:

Yes, outrageous!

And it's true, my wife does feel some distress at this whole business.

I'm going to do the right thing by her and shave my chin and complete the homework.

It's the least I can do.

 

9 years 8 weeks ago
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9 years 8 weeks ago
 
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It's not as bad as it sounds really.  I suspect officials were just doing what they could within the law to provide for his wife.  After all, the state won't help her out.  So it seems to me that someone tried to do something for her.  That's not a bad thing.

 

It reminds me of a similar story.  When I was in a company paid apartment there was a local handyman who used to do the odd jobs to be done.  Mr Chen was his name.  One day I mentioned to the wife the tap was leaking, could she get Mr Chen to have a look?

 

"No, he is dead"

 

"Errr"

 

They found him dead on the road, beside his mangled cycle. No investigation, no help for his widow. Swept up and forgotten.

 

In your case Royce, it's good that some official somewhere is trying to hold someone, anyone, to account under "duty of care".  It looks to me as if you have a local official who is as disgusted with the lack of compassion here as we are.  Next thing we know they will introduce a law to make it a crime to leave the scene of an accident.

 

Then again, maybe the local official is a corrupt dude who got a cut of the compensation.

 

ScotsAlan:

Just to add. If I was out with a mate who got so legless he could not walk, I would see it as my duty to get him home safe. We have all been there, both as the drunk and the carrier.

 

Ok, if he choked to death on his vomit in his bed, that's not my fault.  But if he froze to death at the side of a dusty road..... I would feel bad about that.  Nobody would have to force me to apologize to his widow.  I would be doing my best to make sure she was ok.

9 years 8 weeks ago
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royceH:

Yes, Al...we've all been there.  Well, I have.  And it sounds like you have too.

This bloke had no wife, he lived with his mother.  It had nothing to do with his workplace but, bad luck for them...

As for some kind of public recognition, and perhaps some financial assistance for his mother....whatever.  Ok.  

But it's not his company's bunny.  And it sure isn't my wife's bunny either.

But, in true retarded brainwashing CCP mentality style, the company people had to write letters of contrition.  Admitting they were negligent in their duty of care to someone who got pissed and fell over and froze to death in his own free time.

You tell me if you don't think that logic is fucked up!

 

 

9 years 8 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

Social responsabilty has to start somewhre. How many people walked past the drunk dude? How many people laughed at his him as he was so drunk he could not walk ? Did people encourage him to drink so they could laugh at him ? So now some official says there is a duty of care. An official says people need to look out for others. Are you saying ignoring people in distress is a good thing?

9 years 8 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

And now, because everyone has written those letters admitting responsibility, the wife can go to the courts and demand more money...

9 years 8 weeks ago
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Sorry Royce, accidental downvote.

royceH:

A vendetta upon you, Sir!  (Coinism..)

 

9 years 8 weeks ago
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Doesn't this contravene the law of limited liability? What's the lesson to be drawn from this? Don't employ people who drink baijiu and if you have no candidates available who don't always ensure that in the wintertime, these employees have a minder 24/7?

 

Didn't this happen outside of work hours? In other words, this was something that occurred in his personal life and has nothing at all to do with his employment.

 

One would think that foreign investors would be running scared from investing in this country with just these potential suits coming at them in the future, but from looking at the amount of capital pumped into the place contrasted with what's actually done with it, I'm sure the bewildered old baby boomers will just keep sending in their cash until they get the shock they need.

 

I recently talked with a long time investor in a Chinese textile company from Australia who expressed surprise when I told him that people need cash before going to the doctor here. He exclaimed, "I thought they were communists!"

 

He's the venture capitalist equivalent of Winston Churchill's average voter. Five minutes of conversation with him was more than enough.

ScotsAlan:

Duty of care is the responsabilty of everyone. Western countries have duty of care enshrined in law. We complain all the time about how selfish Chinese people are.... then you complain when some random offical asks someone to say sorry for not helping a drunk guy lying on a freezing street... makes no sense.

9 years 8 weeks ago
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laowaigentleman:

How can you apologize for something you aren't responsible for? Supposing I go out and drink myself to death in a bar, it's hardly likely to be considered fair by any impartial third party if the police go after my employer rather than the bartender who sold me the booze.

I'm guessing that the reason they go after the employer is because the employer has money, in other words, they're looking for the closest, albeit most tenuous link to any party who could even vaguely be considered responsible and therefore liable to cough up money.

 

I agree with the sentiments behind some of your earlier comments about the pragmatism of the officials in trying to find a way to ensure that a dead man's elderly relatives are provided for in the absence of an adequate welfare system, but it begs the question doesn't it as to why it is necessary to place a burden on people who aren't responsible. Think of RoyceH's wife having her name implicated in being responsible for some kind of negligent act resulting in the death of a man when she was probably in bed asleep at the time.

 

Actions have consequences and the message this one sends is, don't become a manager because you'll be blamed for people topping themselves or drinking themselves to death. The result is bound to be that even fewer decent people will go into business and there'll be even more vain dickheads making their employees dance and take an oath of loyalty to Chicken McFryfrys with their hand over their heart before their shift starts.

9 years 8 weeks ago
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To the resident trolls: You are full of shit and stupid to boot. 

1. His coworkers or even the damn company for that matter did not serve him anything. So this has no relation whatsoever. 

2. You have your facts wrong. The drunk driver can not legally hold the establishment liable. If the drunk driver inures anyone, the victim can legally hold the establishment responsible.

And that is a damn good law. That law forces bars to put safety first unlike in your China. 

Here is a tip for you to give to your masters. Focus on fixing your problems. And maybe you wouldn't have so many talented and intelligent people trying to leave for the country you are trying to knock.

 

ScotsL: You make a very valid point.

 

Also foreigners beware, if you break up with your gf commits suicide prepare to pay. 

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9 years 8 weeks ago
 
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WTF is up with the internet.

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might as well use this.

Look at what happened to this guy and he got next to nothing.
And this goes out to the assholes who were trying to say China's banks are like any other.

http://www.chinasmack.com/2015/stories/230k-disappear-from-mans-account-...

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9 years 8 weeks ago
 
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Well, 

 

It's a hard call. I think it is a bit lame in this day and age that people keep trying to pass the buck and blame on to others. This man should know his alcohol limits and he should of known when to say "no". 

 

If he was very visibly drunk the people that he drank with should have helped and ensured he made it home okay but I thought adults were responsible for their own actions... right? 

 

Chinese are too much like immature children... as soon as their parents/teachers/grand parents/boss aren't telling them what to do... they just kind of make REALLY bad decisions and end up in unfortunate circumstances.

 

 

 

 

andyinshenyang:

I agree with this 100%!  

 

I think the blame lies mostly with the guy himself but his so-called "friends" should be feeling really guilty, although I somehow doubt it!

 

If I had to write a letter like the OP's wife.  It would not exactly be the caring, I'm so sorry BS that I'm guessing she had to write.  It would probably be something along the lines of:

 

Dear Drunkard's Mother,

 

It is with great pleasure that I can announce that I'm nominating your son for a Darwin Award!

 

Yes, I know I lack compassion but this really isn't the OP's wife fault and people's lack of responsibility here is sometimes astounding.  I screwed up but it's not my fault!!!

9 years 8 weeks ago
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laowaigentleman:

@andy

 

Haha! Love the letter. It's a perfect summation of the situation.

9 years 8 weeks ago
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9 years 8 weeks ago
 
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If we had proper global warming this guy would still be alive.... keep those windows open while the heaters are on !

Scandinavian:

In a more serious note. The detail "drinking with friends FROM work" or "drinking with friends after work" seems relevant to me. In my backyard, at company parties, the company is liable until the employees reach their doorsteps, although from leaving company property the liability is limited. If your employer boozes you up during a company function, he has liability in my mind.

 

Making everyone in a company write "me so solly" notes seems pretty daft and pointless to me. Help the wife financially and then leave it at that. 

9 years 8 weeks ago
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Scandi is probably right, because most Chinese i know have friends from their school years and from work, little else. chanxes are that he was drinking with colleagues.

if so, Scots' duty of care concept can be held applicable.

if on the other hand, there was no work connection at all, then the company is just being harassed by a lazy relative of the deceased who works in the local government. this would be his dimwitted attempt to fabricate liability evidence that might hold up in court. if it works, it's cheaper than providing for the childless old mother yourself.

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