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Sign up with Google Sign up with FacebookQ: Is it legal?
I have a friend working for a training centre and they are threatening her with on the spot fines for being late, having a messy workspace or not wearing a name tag. There are a few people here at Echinacities that seem pretty up to date with employment law regarding foreign workers. Anyone know of the legality of this?
9 years 19 weeks ago in Visa & Legalities - China
Your friend picked the wrong country for this kind of nitpick.
The faster solution would be: keeping a clean workspace, arriving on time and wearing her name tag.
Which doesn't sound to me like abusive requests. Just personal discipline and respect.
expatlife26:
Yeah sounds like she's making it hard on herself for no reason.
It's not like it's the end of the world to show up on time, not make a mess and wear a nametag.
bill8899:
Don't be late, wear your name tag, and clean up your desk. Why fight it?
RiriRiri is correct, Tell your friend to do what they are asked to do. Because they are writing her paycheck. She should do as requested. Too many come here and think they should be treated like a queen or a king just because you moved to the other side the world. Give me a F**Ken break!
Thanks for the advice. I am still interested to know if it is legal for a company to dock your pay for not wearing a name tag.
RiriRiri:
Well, my record on the Court Cases Won by Workers Over Trivial Matters in 5000 Years of China History suggest that companies don't give a heck either way.
The Marco Polo jurisprudence doesn't count, he wasn't on a Z visa.
Stiggs:
So it seems like it's not legal... I learned something today.
Being fined is still better than being fired though which I'm sure is legal and their other option if they couldn't fine her.
I think your friend should take the fine, learn from it and be happy to still have a job.
I don't see why it shouldn't be legal. If part of her job is wearing a name tag, or a uniform for that matter and she doesn't wear it then she's not doing her job.
As for being late, I personally think if she can't be professional and show up for class on time she should be fired. Maybe that's just me.
It is not legal to fine workers out of their normal salary. It is legal to deduct some of their weekly/monthly bonus though.
I was told this recently when doing factory audits with one of our main customers (I work for a sourcing agent). One factory had noticed up for fines on lateness, smoking, etc. they were told quite clearly by the Chinese auditor that it was illegal.
Though I agree with the other posters. If you're friend is continually late for work, have a shitty desk area and won't wear a name tag as requested by your boss then tell them grow up & take responsibility their own actions instead of complaining about illegalities!
It is illegal to fine workers for this type of thing according to Guangdong labour laws, I can't speak for other places. That said, it will occur and if you fight about it then kiss your contract goodbye - probably sooner rather than later.
As mentioned above, it really isn't difficult to our follow the company protocols if it makes your life simple.
expatlife26:
really? Against the law to fine for that stuff?
Even if it's for something spelled out in the contract like "Your working time is from 9:00 to 18:00 and you are expected to...."?
iWolf:
The company rules are just that. The law is different but in reality, unless you want a world of trouble for being a dick it is easier to just go along with the rules. We must remember where we are and adapt if we wish to work here. The rules are not usually too intrusive or unreasonable in most cases. We have a new rule: if you don't turn off your computer monitor you get a 20rmb fine.
It's not that hard to do or to be on time or wear a name tag. Basic stuff.
If some are too precious to be on time or follow the other rules then they should look for somewhere where they can behave as they please and work there. But that is probably not in China.
Why does this question get downvotes? It's a fair question.
My hunch is that it is absolutely legal and that she just needs to get her act together.
It's not like any of those 3 things are crazy expectations, being on time is almost certainly going to be in the contract.
Now if they fined her for not staying late that'd be another story.
Being at work on time, keeping your work space tidy and wearing a name tag are all part of working in a professional environment all around the world.
your friend is not being asked to do anything inappropriate or unprofessional.
Illegal?
TIC
in terms of going to court, the FT will probably lose due to :
1) being foreign
2) being foreign
3) lack of guanxi
4) TIC
To your question - it's illegal.
As per my knowledge the valid labour act does not provide any way for the company to take money out of employee due to disciplinary matters.
Nevertheless the system of penalizing employees for numerous disciplinary issues is very common in China and generally acepted by majority.
One of the reasons can be that legal fees in China are relatively high considering the average salary and the labour disputes are usually quite lengthy cases. Before starting any legal case all labour disputes must be handled by arbitration. Only after arbiter decision, in case one party does not agree with such a decision, the case can be brought to the court.
As a consequence most employees will never apply for arbitration (and/or later on for the court) due to relatively small money as it is no win (in labour cases the money spent for legal advises are usually not recoverable).
This results in companies having relatively free hand as long as employees consider their requirements reasonable. I assume that few employees would consider by you mentioned examples unreasonable.
Saying all of that I can just support RiriRiri's opinion.
Anyone who shows up late for class deserves to be fined or fired. It's not like showing up five minutes late for an office job- students are paying good money for a certain amount of time and if the teacher isn't there that's not ok. As for the messy workplace or not wearing a nametag... pretty unreasonable to fine for that unless it was a repeated thing. As to the legality, I believe that depends on whether or not it is in the contract. My university has a clear policy of fines for lateness (I think I get one or two free passes and then 300 rmb for the next late or something). Actually I don't even remember because in three years of teaching I've never been late for work! The training school I used to work at fined something like 500 rmb for the first late and it was in the contract that the teacher would be fired for the second late. I had no problem with it. Teachers didn't have to work many hours per week and any responsible teacher would have arrived at least 20 or 30 minutes early to plan lessons.
Hilarious how my question gets downvotes. How did I piss you off?
Thanks for those that answered my question in a straightforward manner. As I suspected it is illegal.
Thanks.
Oh and I'm never late. I wear a tie. My shoes are always shined. I eat 5 or more servings of fruit and vegetables a day.
bill8899:
That's all well and good, but do you brush your teeth after every meal?
There is only one law in China. Dont upset the Party.
Everything else is window dressing.
I'm not sure about legality of many things in China, buTT....I suggest your friend visit or dial SAFEA, and ask them for an advice. SAFEA is the same office where she got Foreign Expert Certificate.
Make sure, she won't patronize anybody at Gov. office.
She should ask them for an advice.
If employer is wrong (against the Law), SAFEA will talk to the employer and sort the matter.
Write 'SAFEA' in search above for the address and contact no. in your city.
She should have asked about all of those things and had them written into her contract. All I can say to any centre that wants to adopt such practices is good luck competing in the market for attracting talent.
Stiggs:
I think the fact that they feel they need to write these things into the contract says a lot about the quality of the previous teachers or the teachers they're getting now.