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Posts: 133

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Q: Kchur, XpatJohn and those married to a Chinese - disagreements over raising kids?

This question goes out mostly to those currently (seriously) dating Chinese. I'm not personally at the stage where I want to marry or have kids, but I can feel it might come up in a year or two, and I was curious to know what kind of common disagreements you may have over raising children in a mixed couple.
 

One thing I'm a little anxious (and intolerant) about is the whole Chinese medicine thing. Has that come up at all for you? Another thing would probably be discipline. My boyfriend, and I assume your Chinese partners as well, were the only child of the family, and so discipline was very different for them as it was for us. I don't want to raise spoiled children. Has that been an issue as well?

 

12 years 6 weeks ago in  Family & Kids - China

 
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Posts: 856

Shifu

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There are many issues which you have to confront when you start planning a family with a Chinese spouse. Approaches to parenting in China are VERY different to the West and this will start making itself apparent even before the baby is born. You will probably be expected to sit out the "moon month" (zuo yuezi) after birth which requires women to stay indoors for a whole month after the birth of the baby. Next, your inlaws will move in and tell you how to raise your baby, what you can and can't do and will generally dominate and take over every aspect related to the baby.

Another major disagreement that arises is where the kid should be raised, what school it will go to, what he/she can or can't eat, his or her hobbies etc. The only way to get through it is to really put your foot down and also to accept that you won't be able to do everything your way. You will have to compromise some of your principles. The grandparents will spoil the child, that's inivitable...but as their parent you should have the ability to keep your kids grounded as long as you spend enough time with them and make sure their not primarily raised by the in-laws.

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12 years 6 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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The only difference between me and my wife is that she's much more strict when it comes to children. Tiger mom or whatever. 

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12 years 6 weeks ago
 
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Culture is only a small part of it in our family.
we both had older kids from previous relationships when we met.
as for our 2 little ones we decided to raise them in Australia.
we go back nearly every year and if they get sick we use a hospital or a doctor like everybody else.
at home my wife teaches them poems and how to read and write in chinese and helps them with there school work in English
The out-laws leave us be in most things.
so at this time we dont have any problems
(at least till the teen years)
best regards

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12 years 6 weeks ago
 
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In my home, my mother-in-law lives with us.  She 'helps' to raise our kids.  Or at least as much help as an 80 year old woman can provide.

When it comes to raising our children, there are certain things I have to comprimise on.  The biggest thing for me is how we dress our kids.  By the inlaws demand (and my wife's agreement) our kids have to wear layers.  Sometimes as many as 5 layers or more if they go outside when it is really cold.  Their comprimise to me is not to have the layers so thick that they look like baloon babies.

When it comes to education, I think you will find that both sides want the best you can afford.  The main question you need to answer early is where the child will attend university (if they do at all).  The reason this needs to be decided early is because if you want them to go to a Chinese university, then they need to stay in the Chinese school system so they can progress through the right schools and study for the right tests to get into a good Chinese university.

If you want them to go to a foreign university, then going to Chinese schools beyond grade 5 or 6 is pretty much useless since Chinese school after that is all about studying for the tests that will line them up for the best Chinese universities.  So if you want a foreign university, you can choose international schools that have cirriculums aimed at other countries for your kids.

But raising a kid here is all about comprimise.  You have to be firm on the things you really believe in and willing to bend on other things.  Otherwise, it will drive you crazy.

The other thing to think about before having a kid here is to understand that your child will get A LOT of attention no matter where it goes in China.  People will always want to touch it, take photos of it, ask you all kinds questions about it, etc...  While it is kind of cool sometimes, it does start to get annoying when it happens all the time.

paulmartin:

I have the same with clothes,even had grandma take off my daughters clothes when ive dressed her,and turn her into a walking tyre man

12 years 6 weeks ago
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12 years 6 weeks ago
 
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No short-term plans to have kids. We both want to go back to school and get our doctorates, preferably not in China, and kids would really complicate that.

The in-laws hate it and bemoan their sad fates, but because me and the Mrs. make more money individually than the entire extended family combined, she gets to have more say over her life than a typical Chinese woman. Anyway, she has a twin sister, who is a housewife, so again less pressure.

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12 years 6 weeks ago
 
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The biggest arguments my wife and I have are always over money. I know Chinese people are know to be cheap, but sometimes it's just f-ing overboard. 
As for kids, I've explained to her I'm a spanker, and that ain't gonna change. She grew up with mean parents, or at least what SHE thinks were mean parents, and so, without me, the kids will end up with a carte blanche spoiled brat upbringing. 
I won't stand for that. And on this there is no compromising, I don't care what kind of Chinese mother crap she pulls. I've also told her that;

- There will be no co-sleeping (Babies die from that)
- Unlike her spoiled nephew, our kids will be able to wipe their own asses when they're 5-years-old
- There will be rules that are obeyed such as bedtimes and eating what we give them for dinner
- If the kid EVER takes a jab at me or her beyond a certain age ( I know toddlers often hit parents, it's just what they do ) they will catch a swift cuff to the head. 

This is how I was raised, my parents were old school Scotch-Irish and that means their entire lives revolved around finding new and inventive ways to beat their kids. And, as an adult, I love and respect them for the way they raised me and my sisters. Made us tough, honest and well-rounded. 

GuilinRaf:

Spanking IS Child abuse. There are ways of bringing discipline to one's children without resorting to physical violence. Sooner or l ater, when a parent spanks his or her kids, they will do so in anger and it will be child abuse. Anyone who uses spanking has no business bieng a parent.

12 years 5 weeks ago
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Kolbol:

Completely disagree with you there Guilin. Sometimes a good spanking is exactly what's needed. A little like the metaphorical finger to the flame.

12 years 5 weeks ago
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SalaciousC:

Spare the rod...

12 years 5 weeks ago
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Jnusb416:

My parents spanked me a few times, then I got the message and behaved. I think that if spanking doesn't work after a few times, then that punishment isn't working, and you should try something else. To continue to use something that doesn't work is stupid.

12 years 5 weeks ago
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nevermind:

Sorry Guiling, but my parents were great parents and to suggest someone has "no business" being a parent cause they spank is just stupid.

12 years 5 weeks ago
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GuilinRaf:

In a perfect world, I would agree that a little modicum of spanking can be healty, but way too often I have seen the effects of parents who spank under anger. Many european countries ban spanking, and I myself was raised without it in a high crime area. Never did drugs, obveyed my curfew, went to college and then law school. When I did misbehave, my parents took the time to explain why my behavior was not acceptable, lost tv and going out priviledges, car privilegdes, etc. Now, since it is not a perfect world and spanking has no place in it. If you spank, you are not a fit parent. Period. 

12 years 5 weeks ago
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nevermind:

I didn't realize that so many teenagers got "spanked" if they were caught doing drugs or breaking curfew. I was spanked and I turned out fine, so to say that you turned out fine and weren't spanked then going on to go and call people unfit parents is absolutely ridiculous. I have seen PLENTY of kids go the other way who weren't spanked. Maybe if you were spanked a few times, you wouldn't be so condescending.

12 years 5 weeks ago
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GuilinRaf:

Re read what I wrote, I did not say that teenagers doing drugs got spanked. If you re read my second post you will see that I say that way too often I have seen first hand the effects of parents who spank under anger. It is a reason why places like Germany and other European countires have criminalized spankings. You yourself mention cuffing your kid on the head . Now, while we may debate about panking being and not being abuse, there is NEVER EVER reason to cuff any kid in the head. That is assault and battery and should be punished with prison and child removal.

12 years 5 weeks ago
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nevermind:

The reason I talked about the drugs and such is that you spoke about spanking then brought up a bunch of examples that were relative to kids way past spanking age. ANd one smack to the head is not battery, if anything it could be considered assault. You don't even know the terms you're using. Just swooping in and judging all who disagree with you. No time for that crap. 

Punished with prison and child removal? Are you friggin' delirious? Do you have any idea how many caring and responsible parents with no priors, who pay taxes, and contribute to society spank their kids? ANd you want them all thrown in prison? Yeah, I can't see any insane social ramifications of that at all! 

Many people who spank have their child's best interests at heart, just because you don't agree with it is no reason to go on a kidnapping, incarceration rampage. 

Christ, I'm a flaming liberal and I can't belive how over the top you are. 

12 years 5 weeks ago
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GuilinRaf:

I don't know the law in your jurisdiction, but in many jurisdictions if A throws a punch at B and B ducks, then assault (or simple assault) took place. However, if B did not duck and A made contact, then battery (or even in some jurisdictions it would be assault and battery) has occurred. One punch to the head would indeed be either battery or even assault AND battery. Now then, having re read my post, I actually do agree with you that I was over the top and here Jnusb placed it in context. The problem is that way too many parents resort to physical discipline as the first disciplinary tool and that is not a good thing, especially when they are angry. We have laws that protect our spouses from being hit (and they are adults!) yet in many places when kids are spanked, no one sees anything wrong with that. Children dont always understand why they are being spanked, and rationalize it as "daddy/mommy is mean". They then act out their hostility on other kids, and thus become bullies, which is another serious problem. However, while I may be willing to concede that a spank or two MAY be an effective or even necessary tool for child rearing (big grain of salt here!), I cannot fathom a "cuff to the head". That I find totally unacceptable and when I see parents do that, I report them. There is no doubt that parents have the best interest of their kids at heart (with the possible exception of the criminally insane). However, most child beaters do not consider themselves beaters. They honestly believe that they are doing it for the "well being" of their kids and do not realize that they are actually harming them in the process. If you really want to read about some really heart wrenching anecdotes, look up "shaken baby syndrome". These parents too, were not evil, just tired and frustrated yet their one second of lapse of judgement marks them and their children for life. Today, many Western countries have already outlawed corporeal punishment including spankings and I applaud them for it. Some jurisdictions give a break to first time offenders, by requiring the offending parent to take parenting classes which may or not be in addition to anger management classes as well. Only repeat offenders would have their children removed, and even so, it would be temporary until the parent demonstrates that he or she can be a responsible parent. After that, well then, it is off to prison with them. On a lighter note, parents may want to keep in mind the following: When you are old and decrepit, your kids are t he ones who will choose the nursing home you will be stuck in...:-P

12 years 5 weeks ago
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nevermind:

DUde, you could never get charged with battery for spanking a child unless you beat the ever loving crap out of them. Even spanking an adult would not be battery. It's not enough force to be considered that. Also, I won't be putting my parents in nursing home and I was spanked. I think you seem to have this vision of people hitting their kids like once a day. I got spanked maybe twice a year.

12 years 5 weeks ago
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GuilinRaf:

Actually, the nursing home part was supposed to be a light hearted joke to lighten up this post a bit. You may find this silly or interesting, but in Puerto Rico, if you spit on someone that is battery? As to adult spanking, well, strictly speaking in Puerto Rico, if I were to spank a stranger, it would be assault and battery (AND it would also be a very good way of getting beaten up!) As to the required force, that again varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. There was a well known law professor back home who used this analogy when explaining the required force needed for a crime to have been committed. He would say that "striking a girl with the petal of a flower is still a crime". I kid you not!

12 years 5 weeks ago
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12 years 6 weeks ago
 
Posts: 38

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I am married to a wonderful Chinese man and we have a 9month old son. Raising a child in china, as everybody said, is a tough job. Well raising a child anywhere is tough, but the way they do it here is completely different from what we do in western countries. So, what I learned is:
Put your foot down on the issues that are most important to you. For me it was co-sleeping, which in this tiny little village I live in means sleeping with the grandparents! Ha! He's had his bed since day 1 and he now happily sleeps in his own room. This is just an example. There has been some serious fighting over it but my mother in law now appreciates that she can sleep at night. Discipline, eating, dressing...I could go on and on but the bottomline is: Bring up issues early, speak your mind and be assertive, otherwise the biggest problem will be with your in-laws trying to take control, no matter how much you and your partner agree on things (as we do). My mother in law now tells the other grandmothers how we do things in our house and points out all the time how happy and well behaved her grand son is. She says she learned a lot from me. Of course she'll never say it to my face but I'm happy anyway...

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12 years 5 weeks ago
 
Posts: 461

Shifu

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Knowing what it would be to raise a child Chinese in-laws and also knowing that my wife couldn't cope to raise the child on her own, I took the radical step : I gave up my job, and decided to raise my child by myself at home.

I had to learn almost everything from scratch, and gave up most part of the things I liked to do (sport, going out, etc) to take care of my child since he was 4 months old. Now, he is 2 years old.

We go every day to take a walk in the park whatever the wheather condition : hot, cold, raining, windy, etc, sometimes go to play to some indoor playgrounds and have great fun playing together. With my Chinese in-laws, it would be either too hot, too cold, too windy, too wet, etc....basically the child would stay home 300 days/year.

From my talks with other Chinese parents or mixed parents, here are my conclusions:
1) Chinese in-laws can barely take care of children, because themselves don't know what it means to raise children as their own where raised by their own grand-parents.
2) Chinese women have little knowledge about what it means to raise a child, and very often they don't read any books on child development and just rely on what grand-parents say or what internet say without questioning the answer they get. They go to see a pediatrician for a medical check, they will be satisfy to just know the height and weight of their baby, without asking other relevant medical question (motricity, eating disorder, allergy, sleep, etc).
3) Chinese children, but sometimes also foreign children, are raised with a ayi who keeps cleaning their ass, bring them food or water, play with them. When I go to play indoor with my child, Chinese parents usually sit on a chair and play with their mobile, computer, iPad and leave the child to the ayi or the grand-parents. And nobody gives really a damn about them. I often have children coming to me to play with them because they see me playing and laughing with my child.
4) Chinese parents will give any kind of food to a baby without even considering if he is in age to eat it or if he has any reaction to it.
5) too many other items to mention........I can write a book about it.

I got all kind of disagreements with parents, my in-laws, my wife about the way of raising my child......but also many are amazed by what he can do, how polite he is, how well he eats (and only steam vegetables and meat, without salt, oil or sauces) and that he can help me on his own way with housechores (wash clothes, clean the ground, putting back his toys in a box, etc).
 
A child for Chinese is only good for their filial piety. Otherwise he is never considered as a human being, and will always remain "something" that should simply be obedient and respectful of the family.

chiarahz:

Completely agree...I am trying to do the same but...doesn't that drain the energy out of you? Don't know about you, but at the end of the day I am just exhausted, and by this I don't mean that my child leaves me exhausted, he's the best part of the whole deal! But everything that comes along with parenting in China is just maddening! How do you do it?

12 years 5 weeks ago
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