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Q: Lazy, ill prepared or useless?
We have all had to change our standards in China in various ways. But some more than others.
You can see some people here make a real effort to live like they would back home. And others make an effort to live as a local would. These are decisions. What I find confusing are the ones that live a certain way because they cant change it. All I hear is that China is so difficult. It doesnt make any sense to me.
Transportation.
Ive said it many times, Buses are for crack heads. In China or back home. Especially in China as you are subjected to humiliation and horrific smells as well. I am also anti scooters. It screams of just quitting on life. So why do it?
Why not live near a subway?
Why choose a job thats so far out of the way?
Why not just save for a cheap second hand car?
Once a week theres a post here on getting a chinese drivers license. And pretty much everyone sais the same thing. Its really difficult, China sucks. Holy hell people, its not any more difficult than anywhere else. Its cheap as hell, its in English and you dont need a drivers test. If you cant manage simple things like getting a drivers licence, you are sadly unequipped to handle pretty much anything else life throws at you. Just curl up into a ball and die right now.
If you were back home would you move to some farmer town in Iowa? Especially if you had no money for a car, and you you knew that Iowa didnt have proper transportation? No you would not. These are EASY adult decisions that even the dumbest people in other countries would make.
" jeez my work is 35KM away and there is no train station for ten, fuck taking the bus, ill find another apartment"
Simple choices to make. Yet here , its super common.
Apartments
Back home would you choose to live in an apartment with 3 or 4 strangers? Its wierd and creepy. Can you think of someone you know back home who doesnt know how to fix a leaky faucet? Yet in China everyone always bitching about landlords. This isnt new york city, rent is not expensive. IF you cant afford to live in China your experiment here has failed. Time to make a new plan.
Even food.
Who the hell wants to eat jiaozi and noodles everyday. I call extreme bullshit on anyone that sais they love the cheap food. Sure I like a good chinese meal as much as the next guy. ONCE IN A WHILE. But how hard is it to make a steak and a caesar salad at home?Your telling me your 28 and you cant cook a meal? Once a week i make a 2 hour round trip and I go get a pizza or something for that night, then i stock up on real meats and vegatables that I actually want to eat and snacks, things that if i open my fridge I dont feel pissed off. But Ive been to dozens and dozens of laowai houses and hell 90% of them dont even need a fridge.
Put up your hand if you dont have AC in your bedroom!
Or if you dont have a water dispenser, you just buy bottles.
how about if you dont have spare sheets, so you just wash yours less regularly, and then spend one night sleeping on damp sheets or your matress.
Very easy, everyday things that people have just quit and gave up on.
Why?????
Laziness? your mom isnt watching and chinese girls dont care?
You came to early in life and had no clue how to wipe your ass?
I really cant figure it out.
BTW, the tv thing really bugs me too. How can you be stuck watching CCTV9? It doesnt make any sense. If your not a tv person, thats cool but then dont bitch about it.
You can get one of those xiao mi tv boxes
Go to your cable provider and enquire what english stations they have
You can get satelilite
Hell you can just go to Gome and get an HDMI cable and plus it into your laptop
Yet people still complain all the time. Can any of you think of a single person you know back home that doesnt have basic cable that you werent convinced they were either hermits or alcholics?
Its a good barometer of how well adjusted people are here. If youve been here longer than a year and have no ability to watch Game of Thrones on your TV, you are doing something wrong.
Well said, I can understand people who are new here struggling with some (not all) of those things but anyone who has lived here for a few months should at least be in the process of fixing these things. If you are planning to stay in China for a while why live in poverty? Once you organise your internet you can find information and help with everything. There is no excuse.
A car...I would want a car right away when I stood at a crowded bus station filled with exhaust gas waiting for a small space that could get me home...bus or taxi or whatever...and when I kept swinging and sweating along with 30 or so other smelly moving "poles" for 1.5 hours to somewhere I knew would only take 20 minutes to drive to. But I've also met people who weren't just born to drive in China. Parking...bad traffic...reckless Chinese "road killers"...Mike, do you have any advice in this particular regard?
Back on a broader scale, I just think that some people are programmed to truly live for themselves and the others to live for what they think is fun or ease.
Lord_hanson:
He did also mention the subway. Plan in advance and choose a home near a subway station.
Scandinavian:
Anyone can drive in China. Those who say it is difficult, all the requirements for getting a license are actually far less than in most European countries, the price is pretty manageable. The most difficult thing is to buy a car because you really need to do a lot of legwork, even if you know what car you want.
I agree not all people should drive, but all people can certainly learn to, if they have a little self motivation.
mike695ca:
As for the driving, yes I do.
1: Dont die. Never ever forget that EVERYONE ON THE ROAD is the dumbest person who has ever lived. Trust no one. Sure they might be the one driver who cares about life, but probably not so why risk it? Eventually you will find patterns in their crazy driving that will make life much easier and less scary.
Example your driving on a road with two lanes. You have no one in front of you. the guy beside you has a truck in front of him. Forget that you are there, forget that you have the right-of-way. every single driver in china will go in your lane. Chinese hate hate hate to have anyone if front of them. So if you are driving fast, be prepared, because he is coming in your lane. once you figure out these things, its actually super easy.
Bad traffic: Its all about your state of mind. You can sit in traffic for an hour an have your ac on with your own music or you can sit( stand) on a bus for 45 minutes with a million smelly rude people beside you.
Expenses. Everyone always sais this point. Its not worth it. 1: its not that expensive. It sounds daunting at the beggining but life seems to have a way of working things out. Your gonna lose that money in your bank one way or another, but once you buy, you will always be able to pay for it.
2. In any other country, this wouldnt be negotiable, this is an expense thats part of life. Why move to a country or stay where you are where you are not able to afford a basic quality of life??
I have met many people that have gotten tired of the public transportation and said screw it and boughten a car yet I have not met a single person that said screw it, i prefer the bus and sold their car. Ask anyone here that drives, once they get it, they dont understand how they lived without it before.
"buses are for crackheads" =>
For most purposes, I'm happy with a bike, my commute is a 10 mn ride. Going to the supermarket is a 1h ride along a nice lane (put your anti-morronic-drivers glasses tho). If it rains, I take the bus. I don't want a car because to me, it sounds like a burden not worth the expense."
Back home would you choose to live in an apartment with 3 or 4 strangers?" =>
When I was working in Vietnam, I shared a large cosy house with 6 to 8 peoples. It was no shack, it was the house of a former diplomat. We had 4 showers and 4 toilets, and we paid a maid to clean once a week. We shared the bills and the cleaning. We were strangers to each other for the first few days, but we became friends. All of us were working and carried on our personal lives. But we would have a hotpot, a restaurant or just a good old beer session together once a week, and we had some common cooking session. It can see how this things can fail horribly, but it worked because I was with mature & responsible adults. We all have great memories, a special episode of our lives we fondly remember. I don't think we were weird and creepy. If it was with 3 or 4 "adolescent adults", that would have been a painful experience, yes.
mike695ca:
Please dont get me wrong, While my opinions are often strong, I try to make a point that there are of course exceptions. And people choose to live in certain ways and are happy with those choices. $ professionals in a mansion? I can see.
Sharing a place with a drunk creepy dude because you need to? I cant.
Even the bike I can see. Some people want to ride a bike, because of the excercise or they are in a location where it is convenient. Many reasons. But because there are no other options?? Doesnt make sense.
Generally I agree with what you say. People should grow a pair and take charge of their own lives.
Actually. Here in town, when you go and ask the cable provider about other channels, you get the blank stare. You have option 1, small package of local tv and CCTV channels, option 2, the same + more garbage. Not everything can be changed, but why don't I move to a city where I can get CNN?
Yes yes an IPTV box solves it I know, but not everything can be changed.
I've just stopped watching TV (except of course for CCTV 7Pm news which is essential for keeping in touch with what goes on in Xi Jinpings life) I do think I am still entitles to bitch about not having CNN, but it is not personal bitching, it is for the cause..... informing the people of China how the world really is.
It also depends on the perspective. I have no end date for my stay in China. Probably a lot of people know they are here for a 2 year period, so that would cap the efforts they are willing to make. E.g. spending 6 months on getting a drivers license, to be able to buy a car for the next 18 months, maybe taxi is the better choice, and then it is OK to bitch about the taxi drivers. I am not more entitled to bitch about taxi drivers because I have a license and haven't actually been in anything but private cars since (2 bus rides excepted) am I ?
mike695ca:
I generally agree, anyone here on an extended holiday might be exempt, but which percentage of them say they are here for a 2 year window and stay 7?
Also, selling your car after 18 months still makes the process worth it. Cars do not de-value at nearly the rate of western countries. You could buy a second hand car and drive it for a year or two and make a great deal of your money back. Wierdly, these second hand car lots havent discovered that they should screw everyone over like the rest of the world does. I know people that have boughten cars for great deals, and when my friend bought a new car they gave him a great fair price for his old one. It takes 10 minutes. They will have an area in the back of the lot where you drive up and they take a quick look and make you an offer ( usually around what your expecting by the way) and you take your money and run. So the time frame doesnt fly in my opinion.
Scandinavian:
@Spider. My testes are large enough to handle a down vote.
@mike. Must admit I don't know the second hand market very well, except I found second hand cars overpriced, and it is difficult to e.g. find e.g. "a newer second hand car of Chinese brand, e.g. a 6 month old BYD F3" Surely there must be people that get rid of cars after not long time, back home, a newer second hand would be the best way to have a cheap ride. I could only find e.g. newer Range Rovers, Lexus' etc. that doesn't match in the cheap transport bracket.
mike695ca:
you just need to find them.. Seriously , they have huuuge second hand car markets with many a 1 year old BYD. Althought 2 to 3 years is much more common. Every car you can think of. And yes they are not as cheap as back home. Your not going to find a 2 year old benz for 10K euros, but that also works the other way when you sell it.
Scandinavian:
I suffer from a clouded image of the car market at we have 2 friends who run each their high end second hand car dealership and we live close to a place that seems to mainly deal with casino owners second hand cars being sold from Macau to mainland.
Don't quite agree with any of the points but that could be because I'm younger than the intended age group. Sharing an apartment with strangers? Meet them before moving in and make sure they aren't creeps first. Living with mature yet young people is much better than teenagers or thirty and above. thirty year olds still have annoying habits, like there was this mom literally holding her five year old sons cawk while showering with him, as if he can't do that by himself. Thank god we got their asses kicked out of here. No lace is awesome and clean now cause the other room has more younger and reasonable people in it.
Yes I probably would live in an apartment for a few years, it is the Chinese that so much put focus on buying a house, not westerners. Raise a family with strangers in that apartment? No way.
Buses can save a hell of a lot of money, and the more you save the better, no? The key is to take buses when it is convenient and not pushing your mental limits. I don't need a car here because transportation is a lot more developed here than in America. And there are verrrrry few parking spaces I have noticed. No thank you. Here's to spending more time circling around for parking spaces than it took to get to the destination. That's more frustrating than a bus or cab in my opinion.
And anybody who hasn't realized that they can view Game of Thrones on their laptop or iPad is an idiot xD
mike695ca:
Perhaps its because your younger Im not sure. Id just much rather live alone and meet my friends whenever I want to see them. If that means living a little further out, so be it. I dont feel that taking all your belongs to the bathroom and getting undressed in the bathroom , or walking around with a towel is something I would want to deal with. Shared bathrooms are a deal breaker for me.
As for the saving, yes taking the bus can save you alot of money, but saving for what??? Most people in any culture are saving for....a car, and a house. Saving that money so you have more money for drinking or buying shit doesnt make anyone look more responsible. Even travel has a limit. Ive done as much travelling as most anyone here , yet it doesnt mean you should put your life on hold or disregard your future. Trust me when you get older and meet someone and a kid actually pops out, that house and car will be important and it will be ALOT more daunting then my friend. Why not start living like an adult now???
Scandinavian:
@jet. The other day I drove 4 or so Km, in about 10 mins, spent 30 mins parking, 20 mins shopping, 10 mins getting back home. That is 70 minutes. With bus that would have been
10 mins walking to the busstop, 15 mins for the bus to get there, 5 mins walking from busstop to shop, 20 mins shopping, 5 mins walking to bus stop, 15 mins for the bus to drive back, 10 mins walking home from the busstop.
No big difference. But in the car I am listening to whatever I want to listen to, rather than the crackhead yelling in his phone. Sometimes the busses are just not there, if you are a bit away from down town areas, maybe you only have one line to chose from, that maybe runs only once per 20 mins.
Since I am from the developed world, I am not impressed with public transport in China. It is generally good, but don't compare it to London, Berlin etc.
coineineagh:
Hey, upvote for the GoT reference.. I watched it on my laptop last month.
I live in a high end area across the street from the best school in town, so buses are convenient (except during times when school lets out). I don't mind taking the bus when I am in the mood to be stared at. Other times, I use my e-bike (three wheeler with a baby seat). When raining, taxi. I will not bother with a car in China. I love cars and love driving, but not in China. Of course I live in a small town and don't particular care for big cities. I absolutely would not be driving if I were in Shanghai or Guangzhou. My wife was bothering me about a car awhile back, but since we made plans to sail out of here, she's been quiet.
Scandinavian:
Small note. In Shanghai and Guangzhou, drivers are actually better then in the smaller towns. Here in Zhuhai you can almost tell how far you are from the center by looking at how people drive. 30Km outside of the city you start getting donkey on the roads, people walking, big trucks running across the street without stopping.
Last I was in Shenzhen I was amazed with how well people drive there compared to here. Still, for some, bus is convenient when you are lucky to be near a good busstop with lots of options.
mike695ca:
@scan, completely agree. I once drove from guangzhou to Chongqing. OMG do not leave the cities and DO NOT LEAVE GUANGDONG
xinyuren:
In Shanghai, many people drive very well. But the cost of cars, insurance, parking and having to be conscious of every stupid driver, pedestrian, motorbike and faker take all the joy of driving out of me. Not to mention the terrible traffic I see in big cities. I was tempted a few times, but so far, not enough to bite. Sure, I could buy a cheap car and not worry about it, but I can't bring myself to do it. I'm a bit particular about things. Couldn't sit there and look at a cheap interior, mickey mouse engine with inferior quality and be happy.
mike695ca:
@xin, now that logic i can appreciate. If you dont want to buy a cheap car just for the sake of having a car, i dont think anyone can argue with that. Just in my opinion, id still prefer that to the bus. Unless its a qq. Ill walk then. But for someone with a metro system and plenty of taxis, i would probably feel the same way.
expatlife26:
scan everybody says that about shenzhen...that the drivers there are very good and unmainlandish
Like just being close to HK puts everyone on their best behaviors
I d love to have a car... you want proof??? I ve been having a driving license back in my country since 2010 still never had enough money to buy a car 
Here life is better still not the best. How on Earth is it possible to buy a car on a 10k/month salary while living with your family which includes children and accommodation.
Cars ain't cheap is my view...
Accommodation: Forced to live where I live because of the studying institution of my spouse..
So my conclusion: your suggestions are wonderful, but they are only for some crack heads who don't improve their lifestyle when they can. Thus I am not included.
mike695ca:
I digress.
But on with a small caveat. Cars are not as expensive as you think. You just need to look. I know one family bought a second car just so the wife can get around and pick stuff up for work. 10K had it for like a year so far hasnt put any money into it. like an 8 year old jetta. Im not telling everyone to save for an audi. Just saying, if you can improve your life, whats holding people back? There really are no excuses.
hunny797:
its just been 2 months since this 10k started..before that it was less than half of that..
hopefully in near future I will be a car owner
Yup. I am really lazy, stupidly ill prepared and amazingly useless 
I don't have a car. I don't want one. I have just never been a car person. Yeah I had a car in the last place I lived but I only used it to get to work and back. Anyway, I live within a 10 minute e-cycle to work. But I actually just get the company bus. Carbon footprint and all that. Why add to the road congestion and pollution by being a selfish car owner?
I share the apartment with my family. Be sort of rude not to 
Cook food at home? Nah.. no thanks. I have never been into food in a big way. If I want a steak I go downtown and have a real chef cook me one. I have always detested supermarkets too. Horrible soul-less places. The MIL cooks at home though.
English TV .... not worth it. Believe it or not I did not have a TV during the last year of living in my home country. We have cable TV here but only Chinese channels. The mother in law watches it. I prefer to read or watch classic movies online. What's this "Game of thrones" you talk of?
We don't have a water dispenser. The wife won't allow one in the house. She says most of the the big jugs of water just have tap water in. I buy bottles of water. She drinks boiled tap water.
Gosh, I feel such a loser now 
.
I don't even have an IPhone FFS. How can I survive such a wretched life?
Ohh yes..... by drinking beer 
xinyuren:
Ah, beer. The cause of, and the answer to, all life's problems.
mike695ca:
I read all of that, and all i came away with is YOUR WIFE DRINKS TAP WATER!!!!!????? Does she still have all her limbs? That cannot be good. Bit your not a loser man, 1 you live in guangzhou with arguably the best metro system in all of china and 2 you never fucking complain. I dont care how people choose to live, but own it. I was more commenting on the excuses people make for livong how they live. Everything in china is just to difficult. So they do nothing.
ScotsAlan:
Ha ha. My wife has limbs to spare. Something to do with the tap water apparently.
Anyhow, I don't really have much to complain about. The only complaint I would make is being tied to a specific employer with the Z visa. But that's the law alas 
I somehow managed to survive my first 10 months here without a car, in a Tier 4 city where the buses stop running at 6pm no less. Sure, a lot of money gets spent what with the purchase price of the car, keeping gas in the thing, paying traffic violations, and annual insurance costs (rather ridiculous compared to what I pay at home). All in all, totally worth it. In an instant, life went from being miserable to tolerable.
Never had the roommate issue, as I have my own private room within the company dormitory. But with the noisy neighbors, it reminds me of a dorm at a party college, except with the addition of screaming babies and toddlers. Outside of finding a standalone villa to rent, I guess most apartments will have the same caveat. Plus, it's totally free and I don't have to worry about my landlord screwing me over. The internet, electricity, cable, and water are all included.
The only person who watches the cable TV is the gf when she comes over. Otherwise it's whatever's new in torrent land. Although I got my HDMI cable from monoprice while I was in the US. Yes, a made-in-china cable was far cheaper in the US, than at the local Gome.
Anyways, to each their own.
xinyuren:
ah, torrents. The source of, and the answer to, all life's problems.
It's not that expensive to have a car in China. I mean, we bought a new one, so all we have to do is put gas in and change the oil. We pay around 1000 a month for fuel and we use the car a lot. I will never take the bus again, unless I plan to drink. I have never ridden a scooter / motorcycle in my life...and I'm not planning to.
I don't make a lot of money and still manage to save around 80% every month.
Apartment and bills are paid by my employer. Never had a better lifestyle. All you gotta do is choose a city you like and learn how to manage your money. Right? 
For foreign food I would go to central HK (2 hours away) over Guangzhou or Shenzhen (or anywhere on the Mainland) anytime, even for a single meal, Chinese are just awful at cooking non-Chinese food.
expatlife26:
Theres some good restaurants here...don't sell them short. HK has better restaurants though.
ScotsAlan:
Hey Eorthisio. Your in GZ yeah?
Have you been to Canton place in Zhu Jiang New town ( Between Tancun and Leide metro)?
Cracking western food there. At a decent price too. I would say for quality and value for money it beats anywhere I ate in the UK in the last 10 years. I go with the wife every alternate weekend. The beer is 
too.
Eorthisio:
ScotsAlan -> Yeah I live in Zhu Jiang Xin Cheng, still I prefer Hong Kong, more variety. Here the Italian restaurants (for e.g.) all serve stereotypical dishes (pizza, pasta, spaghetti, ...) and most taste the same. Also even if there is a large choice for Western food, try to find a decent Nepalese (or anything else that is not Western) restaurant in ZJ, even better, try to find one with a real Nepalese chef, good luck. There are some (with Chinese or Indian chefs) and they are awful.
Hotwater:
I'm in Canton Place as I write this reply. Just had a very nice Tendeloin washed down with a couple of pints of Tiger. Birthday meal with my wife. We eat at home normally (she's a great cook!) but at weekends & special occasions it's good to eat out. The place is called Bocca btw.
Eorthisio, I live near the racecourse in ZJXC. If you ever fancy a beer drop me a PM. I actually thought you lived out Baiyun way.
JacobJohn:
That's so amazing, that you can afford to go downtown HK from ...China. Wow!
I'll be buying (my wife will) a secondhand car this month. With a 2nd baby, there's simply no room on the e-bike. Secondhand cars are very risky in China, because most Chinese will use their cars until they're falling apart, or gift/sell to family if they have little use of it.
My wife called her driving instructor for advice, he said DON'T DO IT. He told her to buy a new one. When she asked what can she do with it when we emigrate, the intructor said: "I'll buy your secondhand car!"
I think it's like the postal system: Nobody trusts it due to a general distrust of strangers and low social capital in China, but when it comes down to it, there is little theft in the mail. Hopefully we can find a decent car. I'm studying a 26-step inspection method for when we look at them.
mike695ca:
I think its safer than you think. There really isnt a culture of selling lemons in china.... Yet. I certainly havent encountered bad experiences yet. Try to get a feel for the seller. Its not much but its helps if there is a chance he is honest. Open the engine bay and check for welding. That will often show repairs or collisions. Lots of flooded cars in China. Look for rusting under the belly and pay attention to the carpets. Depending on how old the car is repairs are going to be inevitable but labour is cheap so most repairs will cost in the hundreds not the thousands. Also, have your wife check for specialty mechanics for your particular cars brand. Often someone working at say Ford will quit and open up a ford repair shop. These guys will be just as good but at half the price. Every town has them for almost every brand. Depending on your budget, you can look at cheaper chinese cars like the byd F0, cheap as a second hand foreign car and youll get like 3 years warrenty then sell it when it runs out.
Hotwater:
If you want a cheap new Chinese car don't buy a BYD F0. I was warned off then by Chinese colleagues who'd bought them.
I bought a brand new Lifan 320 (Mini Cooper rip-off but with 4 doors) for 45k RMB on the road in December 2011. 2 year everything warranty (& they honour it) & 5 year engine warranty. Done >50k km in it now, driving to work 5 days a week. Yes, it's had small niggles, which have been fixed under the warranty, but nothing more than a late 1970's British Mini! Cracking little car!
coineineagh:
@mike, thanks for the tips. Some China-specific issues to keep an eye out for. @Hotwater: The Lifan 320 was also our desired new car when we still wanted new, and it's in the shop for 26500 here, ex. tax/insurance. But considering the 8.5-month pregnancy and our plan to emigrate, we decided against it. Most people buy a car that's the maximum that they can afford, or even a bit more. Practicality should supercede purchasing preferences, or you deserve whatever situation you get yourself into. I'm sure mike would agree. We could get a Lifan for a 15k down payment (incl. tax/insurance), and 1100/month for 24 months. We did the math, and decided there are better things to spend our limited money on than "newness". Definitely a nice car, though. I even liked it more than that Changan brand with the Star Trek logo.
cooter:
Re: "don't buy a BYD F0"
I've had mine for more than 3 years now. The worst thing to happen was the windshield wiper motor went out. Of course, this would happen while driving in a torrential downpour. But otherwise, the car has been fine for what it is: basic, reliable transportation.
mike695ca:
Yeah, I knew a chick that has an F0, had it for years now. And she lives in Zhangjiang. Like like 4 or 5 hours away from guangzhou, shes always motoring back and forth. Shes never had a problem. I think for almost all chinese cars there will be horror stories, standardsand quality have improved alot, and with a warrenty your all set.
But even then, some people dont want to pay monthly even if they can afford it, china isnt exactly stable. And they dont want to pay 50K. Some people pay 10K and fix it when it needs to be fixed. Still much more convenient most of the time.
coineineagh:
i had a look at a QQ3 model car recently. looked good as new, from 2008, 58000km, offered by a mechanic for 12k. its roomy inside for a smaller car. no signs of welding, rust leaks, and the engine seems perfect. it looks like this will be our family's first car.
mike695ca:
Do more research that seems high. I just found a 08 QQ with 35k for 9800 asking. Have you wife look on line ganji.com Maybe you wont find a car there but youll get an idea of prices.
coineineagh:
She tried gnaji and some other websites. this was the best offer that came out of her search, and I have to say it was a decent trade. She bought it 2 days ago, and the car looks brand spankin' new. Not even a scratch or blemish on it. The seller was a mechanic, so maybe he gave it new upholstery and pait job. He even payed the licence plates and other expenses. We only had to pay the 12100 he asked.
I like busses in China. Not local ones that much, but long distance lines.
I returned from Shenzhen to Nanping with bus for 300 Rmb, and 10h ride. It's sleeping coach with beds instead of seats. I laid down on the first bed on the L side. Bus driver was talking to me some 30', but I was like: 'No ming bai!', and keep saying 'OK'.
He tried to tell me, first bed is reserved for both drivers, and I should get bed along the coach. But, I like beds with good view
icnif77:
What? Have you ever taken sleeping ride on the bus? I-pod with charger, shades, some rice and things, pillow, and big accident insurance for the ride, which I didn't have, buTT......we all survived.
Oh, you got to be kidding me.
What you are confusing with "strong opinions" is really just patronozing just fucking everyone not sharing the same opinions or goals as you. Yeah, really, just that, sorry to take you out of your pedestal where you got to comment on everyone's lives and reasons for following your standards or not.
Well, that's how you blow steam off I guess, so that's fine, but really, for someone who can't stand complainers you sure complain a whole fucking lot.
China is hard to live in because every single aspect of it is shit and is getting shittier by the years, this is unless you have a big bunch of monies to buy yourself away from everything. Great. No one is exception, and not everyone knows that before coming, so I usually restrain myself from judging where people end up, especially with plain insults.
mike695ca:
Just how exactly did you take me "out of my pedastal"? Im still up here looking down on a bitter poor dude. But you go on, continue, your exactly the type I was talking about. Blaming horrible fucking China for your own short comings. Whatever makes you sleep on your wood plank bed at night man.
KimOnach:
I was under the impression that we didn't know each other, but well, you got me figured out it seems.
I'm living very well, thank you very much, not blaming China for anything on a personal level. Might seem hard to conceive for you, but yeah, it's actually possible to live a good life WHILE acknowledging that some things are wrong around even when they don't influence you directly WHILE not feeling the need to make phallus refuels by patronizing random dudes on the internet (lol). Really, that's possible.
What am I doing? Really none of your fucking business, don't even ask.
Toxic people like you are just the reason that will make me avoid places on the Internet. You being such an achiever surely have real friends to confess to, why not trying to project your insecurity in that direction.
dokken:
Yup this guy knew nothing about me but called me a loser because I said I quite liked electric bikes. If he looks down upon english teachers so much why does he go on a forum used almost exclusively by english teachers. Total total arsehole.
i managed to get a job as a scientist outside of teaching in china. I feel good about it. Am I going to troll others about it on this forum. No I'm not a prick. Maybe some english teachers like doing it and are good at it. The guy should not be so smug for somebody that does not the difference between your and you're. Tool
mike695ca:
@Kim Oh, I know you all too well, Your the same as every other pathetic bastard who manages to be a racist while living in China. You forget that people read your posts right. The only thing you do is rant about how shit China is. Im sure you would have billions if only this place wasnt keeping you from releasing your genius to the world.
I would totally disagree with your argument that you can hate this place and still have a good life. Anyone as angry as you doesnt have the capabilities to enjoy anything. . But please enlighten me. What is it that you do here in China?
Toxic people like me are not the reason you refuse to leave your cave. Just another excuse your making for yourself. You dont go anywhere because your too lazy to provide transportation for yourself. And you cant afford to do anything once you leave. I am imagining a Jabba the Hut figure feeding himself the cheapest jiao zi he can have delivered, and it really makes me happy. Its the small things in life really.
mike695ca:
@dokken AKA the Harvard scientist who is an english teacher in a 7th tier city by "choice". I hope one day you can see how humorous it is that an English teacher is calling me a tool for spelling errors. That is the exact definition of a tool.
Another definition of a tool? Someone who agrees with you in a post and then uses that said post as an attack the next day.
Here you said this ... " I can understand a bit of what you say.The bit about respecting ourselves and creating a positive image of a foreigner in China " Really?, this is the example your going to use?? Your even more useless than the rest of them as there are countless examples of me being an asshole that you could have used without looking like an idiot.
KimOnach:
I have nothing against personal attacks, even directed at myself. That's what the internet is for, so that big mouthed pricks get to compensate for... well you tell me. What are you compensating?
Anyways, you could be entertaining, should you have enough imagination not to fantasize the same thing about everyone (blabla jiaozi blabla dormitory... yeah we got it), and more writing skills (but you're making progress, you nearly get all the capitals and punctuation in the right place, congrats, here's a cookie).
Surprise me, come on you can do it.
mike695ca:
Jesus was that a compliment?? I guess all those poor writing cracks were subconsciously effecting me. Thanks for helping with my self improvement!
expatlife26:
OMG mike you fucking crackhead...you mean those cracks were "A"ffecting you...right? Loser!
I feel validated now.
expatlife26:
All joking aside KimOnach, you shouldn't feel like China is holding you back. Maybe it's not pushing you forward but theres no law saying you have to live here. Plenty of laws saying you can't.
I'm as far from a China apologist as they come. I try to keep as much of their shitty problems out of my life as I can. But it's foolish to think the chinese are gonna help us succeed. I mean really why should they? Not their responsibility to put us in key, high-salaried roles.
On the other hand just by being from a western country we can step into 20K teaching gigs like they're jobs at walmart. You'll work your fucking ass off and it might get old, but that's still $40K USD on the table for anybody who wants to take it. China has a shitload of problems, but really where else does anybody have 40K a year coming to them (in a place you can live respectably on that) if they want it.
I mean I fucking hated teaching don't get me wrong. It wasn't for me and I was very happy to quickly put it in the rearview. But there is enough money in it that you can avoid a lot of the China BS hassles if you're smart about it. As long as you are OK with teaching theres no reason anyone needs to be living in a situation they aren't comfortable with
If you base your happiness on how the chinese act you will be miserable every fucking day. Tune them out, focus on putting yourself in a good situation.
KimOnach:
Don't get me wrong, I keep their problems away as much as I can too on a daily basis, I'm not mother Theresa, and the day it will get too close I'm out of here no regrets. For now I earn enough, in a good enough environment, so I don't care. But I still acknowledge all the shitiness to be acknowledged around me.
I'm only saying that I don't feel entitled to judge on other people who either don't have a problem with all this, or who, for various reasons, can't affort to get better for now.
So, no, sorry, this post is one more useless, insulting, aggressive and condescending entry in a long list of useless, insulting, aggressive and condescending entries from the same author. I come back today and I see more than a dozen thumbs up, so I kind of suspect I'm not the only one there thinking the same.
mike695ca:
Boy, you suuure are selective. Your point is that your right because you have a dozen thumbs up? My original post does as well. So how does that work?
KimOnach:
It doesn't work, but since every time someone tries to hold your hand out of your little fantasy kingdom into the land of thinking with a brain, you seem to burn out, I just use numbers instead. But even those you won't get until you learn to subtract.
We could also post pictures of our dicks, that'd make things simpler, I could avoid reading your fourth grader writing (but you're making progress, keep up the good work, baby steps), and you'd understand quite quicker who's the boss.
Stop trying to be condescending with me, even when I go down to your level, which is a fucking long way down, I'm just better than you to an extent I myself feel embarrassed.
mike695ca:
you did a whole lot of talking for actually saying nothing at all. Sooo subtract?? As in people downvoted me so the total means your right?? Come on man, your smarter than this. Everyone knows an angry person is far more likely to react than a person laughing at you. People didnt like that I told the truth. They downvoted. While people who agreed with me read your angry take and laughed. Your not worthwhile enough for them to even take the time to click. This is why every review page is far more negatives than positives. Come on man, do you really need me to explain this to you? Here I was actually giving you a little credit. Is it stupidity? or your just reaching ....for anything. Even the last word.
KimOnach:
You know, when trapped in quicksands, smart people stop moving. But you never know when to stop do you. I'm just fucking playing right now, I've already pissed my superiority all over your face and given you a free lesson of fucking humility so that next time you'll consider posting one of your patronizing rants you'll sure be thinking about me and water down your moronry.
Just know your place and move on.
PS: didn't read you. Don't need to.
mike695ca:
And how exactly have you done that? By looking like a jealous bitch? You know what you should do? You should tell me the name of your school. Im sure, you wouldnt mind that being superior and all. We all know I have free time. Id love to give them a call and offer them an obsene amount of money ( i have lots). I want to hire you out. Pay you a little extra to put on the monkey costume, dont worry ill pay for it. And have you dance for the kids.
How much do you think your school would need? 10,000 for an hour? Think they would do it? I know id pay that. I would easily pay ten grand to humiliate you in public. Fuck i have blown alot more money on dumber shit than that.
What do you think? wanna make a little extra cash being my bitch? Just PM me. Challenge me to do it.
KimOnach:
Here we go.
Whenever you get frustrated, you run straight back to your little fantasy world. Where everything can come true and you even can take for granted that I or anyone for that matter would have time to waste with you.
Boy, that's just so cute. Oh, and as far as the internet is concerned, "meet me IRL and look at my big big balls" is the ultimate expression of "I just fucking ran out of everything please save me from shame".
mike695ca:
you just keep talking man yet i see I have no PM. Quick, before your hour runs out at your web cafe. Dont act like you cant use the money. Anyone who can support themselves wouldnt have gotten so mad at my post.
owned cars for umpteen years in the States and loved most each&everyone of them, had a blast driving them and maintaining them- opel, saab, porsche 912, buick somethingorother, sister's hand-me-down camaro, ... a couple of Rodeos (Isuzu?) that the ex & I drove the AlCan on 6x(rt).... and my favorite, 1980 'Vette w/ glass-Ttop when we were living in LV.
now to be honest the thrill is gone (xiexie BB) and I had just as soon ride my kick-ass Trek MTB for work-commute & around town jaunts.
Haven't been much interested in TV since Johnny Carson signed-off.
* what's Game of Thrones ?
diverdude1:
'73! extremely bad-ass ! I grew up w/ my aunts/uncles cruising late 60's to mid 70's Vettes, that's how I got the fever.....
I sure wish I knew how to post a photo of mine here....
Mike. I thought of this clip when I read some of your posts .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOlbOZ9w84I
Must I also buy an iPhone to please you, sir? I'd like to know all the requirements. Should I have two phones with phone cards? PLMK
May I be excused from buying an auto? I love driving but have no use for a car. Apologies!
I buy bikes, ebikes and enduro style motorcycles for no damn reason, but is that permitted? I fear I have erred in this regard. If so I will sell them all (not) to walk your righteous path!
May I keep my tools? You can go to hell if you think I'll forego my tools.
Should I wear Nike, Adidas, New Balance, Reebok, or another brand? Please advise.
I beg for your guidance in these matters. I await your direction.
We are not worthy!
ScotsAlan:
Hey bill... you gotta live the American dream man. EVERYONE has to live it. No matter where you are .
We all have to be enthusiastic embracers of the consumerist culture. We need to display our wealth in a conspicuous fashion so as to make lesser people feel inferior. This will spur them on to better themselves and write self help books which will enrich the whole of society.
Be vulgar with your cash. Your a nobody unless your packing a gold plated Colt.
Sorry. Just enjoying the craic
bill8899:
AScots - Yes, we must adhere to the American Dream! Foreigners pay a surcharge and ongoing membership fees.
I recoiled in disgust at your allusion to a gold plated Colt, but considering the mandate to "Be vulgar with your cash", I suppose I must gold plate my 1911. However, it shall remain in the states.
Gold plate an ebike? Now THAT would be vulgar on so many levels.
@Mike - Thank you my king! I afraid I am unable to fully decipher your instructions, so I will interpret your message as I see fit. I surmise I must buy an iPhone. May I wait for the 6? Yes? Great, thanks!
There is a difference between “strong opinions” and shitting on people because they are not as rich as you, and therefore, you think you are better than them (looks like you are fitting in pretty well into Chinese society in that regard, at least). If someone’s choice in transportation or living arrangements isn’t harming you or others, then what business is it of you to criticize? Telling people to curl up and die because they don’t have a driver’s license is pretty douchey.
Are you that insecure that you need to blatantly insult people for not being rich, or not living the lifestyle you chose?
Transportation:
You may have said it before, but it’s just as ignorant and wrong each time. Buses are for people who can’t afford a car (not everyone is privileged. Some people have to struggle to make ends meet), who prefer to save money for something else, and/or people who are environmentally conscious. I have literally never seen a crackhead on the bus here. Where do you even get that?
Even if “its”[sic] not any more difficult than anywhere else”, some people just choose not to get a car, so don’t need a license. They might not be able to afford a car. It’s really none of your business either way.
Apartments:
Some people would choose roommates. How is it weird and creepy? Here’s the thing. I have always preferred to live by myself rather than share an apartment, but I have known people who do share apartments, and I don’t judge them based on that decision.
Rent can be expensive compared to the income. It depends on the location and quality of the apartment.
Food:
“Your telling me your 28 and you cant cook a meal.”[sic]
Well, you can’t write in English… so pot, kettle, and all that.
If someone does like inexpensive food to save money, and/or just like the taste, it’s none of your business. Would you like someone insulting you for your meal choices? Maybe you can listen to a judgmental tirade about how disgustingly fat you are for getting pizza and stocking up on meat, and how you need to die for being so fat. You also better go to the gym 3-4 times a week in China. I do, and so if you don’t, you’re not as good as I am, based on my fabricated criteria.
“I really cant figure it out.”[sic] Now that is something I can totally agree on.
How someone chooses to live is their business. As long as they are not hurting anyone else, there is no reason (other than emotional insecurity) to take a condescending attitude and lecture them on how they should live.
Also, working class people are not below you.
coineineagh:
And this is why mikey hates you. He's been displaying his attitude of intolerance so often, I've just concluded it's not gonna change, so I stopped countering it. Einstein said insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly, and expecting different results. Well, you're insane, Mateusz! There you are, following him around with that mirror he refuses to look into. You so cray-zay - I love it!
mike695ca:
I am certainly not better than the working class, I am the working class. But I am undoubtedly better than you. This goes without question.
You and your poor friends always go about with your blinders on attacking anyone who has more, yet if you took the time to read what I actually said in my post and following comments you would see that this is not a financial issue. If people have no money to buy a car that is one thing.
I am talking about people like you who come to china and become useless blobs of shit. Who knows , perhaps you were always like that. It was about people who dont have anything, and instead of owning it and saying they dont want it, they complain that China is too difficult to do anything. It is about you people coming to China and staying children forever. Living in a constant state of college dormitory purgatory.
You cant manage to pay your own bills, you cant mange to do things handicapped people do like go the the supermarket and eat a balanced diet. The drivers licence thing was not about having money to buy a car, it was about everyone bitching that it was too hard to do. Which is complete bullshit. It was about you making excuses for your sorry ass life.
But it doesnt really matter your not going to read this even, your not going to care, your going to defend yourself and your lazy ass friends for having nothing and call me an elitist asshole. Which is fine. In your mind, your a genius and I am stupid because I cant spell. But new flash, I am not a teacher, I used to be, for many years, and even then I still made double/triple your salary. Doing the exact same job as you. This is because I am not lazy and useless.
You enjoy staying exactly where you are forever. I got money to make.
Mateusz:
Señor Spellcheck:
Well, for someone who has never met me, you sure got me all figured out.
You’re rich, and therefore, of course you’re better than me, and all working class folks who just don’t have your wealth. That ironclad logic is just unassailable. I mean, money is the only marker of worth.
I’m sure that’s why people find you annoying. It’s not the massive ego that lets you feel entitled to blatantly insult people who aren’t as rich as you. It’s that you are rich.
“ It is about you people coming to China and staying children forever. “
Right… there’s absolutely nothing childish about insulting people for not having as many cool toys as you, nor flat out name calling. Telling someone “But I am undoubtedly better than you. This goes without question” is not at all a sign of immaturity.
Well, I’m trying to read what you wrote… the level of language skills makes it difficult, but I soldier on. I can’t pay my bills? Really? That’s news to me, and my landlord. I wasn’t aware that I never went to the supermarket either. Maybe you could also tell me what my favorite color is. You already know my diet.
“ In your mind, your a genius and I am stupid because I cant spell.”
I never claimed to be a genius, but as for the rest of the sentence… it’s funny enough the way it is. No comment I make can add to the humor.
“But new flash, I am not a teacher, I used to be, for many years, and even then I still made double/triple your salary. Doing the exact same job as you.”
I really hope you only say you were a teacher to rile up real teachers… since the thought of you teaching others is rather terrifying (did they hire you for your wonderful people skills, or your superior language ability?). Also, I’m curious, what is my salary, and where do I work? I mean, you know you make double and triple it, so you must know how much I make, and you know you did the exact same job.
“This is because I am not lazy and useless.”
That's another statement I can't make add any more humor to, other than just putting it up there.
Mateusz:
Coineineagh:
Nah. He hates me because I’m not rich like him, and don’t see how he is awesome, with the language skills of Hemmingway, the wit and clever wordplay of Wilde, and the charisma of a box full of puppies.
I agree there. No way he will change, no matter how often he is called on it. Maybe he’s just a troll, maybe doing an extended parody of tuhao, or maybe he really is that far into delusion and narcissism. Whatever it is, he’s sticking with it.
Still, whether intentional or not, at least he’s a source of humor.
expatlife26:
Mateusz youre taking that way too literal. Crackhead just means lowest common denominator. The bus is the absolute cheapest most accessible thing so you're gonna get a lot of unpleasant people shoving yelling and spitting their way around the city.
You're right how somebody chooses to live is their business. But if theyre going and bitching about it when theres an easy solution that's their own fault.
If youre happy where you are then who gives a fuck what "mike695ca" says?
mike695ca:
@Mateusz
You seem to forget that we have spoken before. I know all about you. I have met you a million times. Your a smart ass in Nanjing or something making 8-10 maybe 12 if your lucky. Which would in fact validate my statement of making double/triple what you earn. As a teacher.
How else do I know your pathetic? Well its simple, in all of your postings to me over the months, you have never come up with anything other than my spelling. You have absolutly nothing to say or nothing to add other than to disagree, call me a rich asshole and make fun of my typos. Seriously, you could just copy and paste them time and time again.
Instead making the same old lame snarks about my spelling a smart person would probably ask why everyone always seems to want to pay me so much??
Perhaps it because I am independent? Useless people people are ALOT of work for employers.
Maybe its because I dont sit around bitching and moaning all day blaming others for my short comings.
It could be because i didnt come to China to work 14 hours a week , and as a normal person, working 8 hours a day isnt so difficult for me.
You know, actually things that employers in China would appreciate. But please, continue. You go on and believe that spelling actually matters one fucking percent in this country. Your doing good and helping the world sharing your knowledge. Please continue.
coineineagh:
@mike: The same repetitiveness can be found in your own posts. You bitch and complain about expats on&offline, because you look down on their concerns and mentality, which you feel is inferior to yours. You have the life philosophy that we should all be striving to emulate... Problem is, if I did that, I'd also have to emulate your online comments. I'd have to go onto a chinese message board, and run my condescending judgements and stinging insults through Google Translate. And to my great outrage, the Chinese would make fun of my grammar instead of being butthurt!
Shining_brow:
@Mats... yes, he is a troll. I thought it was rather obvious!
You'll note the complete ignorance of your actual points (or those of KimO above), and instead resorts to insults and name-calling.
The call to environmentalism has been ignored (naturally - he's a 'rich' arsehole who wants to drive a car... and thus, such an idea would be absurd!)
Your logical points have all been untouched (see your points on living arrangements, food, etc..)
So, give up!
mike695ca:
@coin, lets please be cordial about this. We have been doing so good! I wanna keep it up. Its not that i disagree with people who choose to have a different lifestyle than me. I just truly dont understand it. It is quite obvious that my empathy meter is permantly running low. But on the other hand. No one seems to explain it or justify it ( not that they have to justify anything, but it is a forum, and they dont need to respond either) The people that do answer without being defensive or straight up attacking me, are met without screaming matches. In do have a question. Why is it that im.always butting heads with the same few people , and the same few people are always defending me? While the vast majority either answer the questions and ignore my "tone" or just ignore the question. Yet the same people just keep coming back for more. Why is your side automatically right? And if im such an asshole would it be fair to say that you guys are overly sensitive? I mean its obvious not everyone was offended although if you argued that everyone can understand why some are offended , you might be right. I really truly posted this question ignorant to the fact that others would be pissed. If someone is sleeping on a wet blanket tonight, i apologize for offending you. Obviously for some people the way you say your message is more important than the message itself.
Mateusz:
Well, he could be legitimately that ignorant. I have met spoiled children with parents who got them easy, high paying jobs. These kids were entitled and elitist, and need to insult poor people in order to feel good about themselves. Even his ignorance (If you don’t like where you live, just move next to the metro, since China totally doesn’t have a large population clamoring for housing, and houses near metro stations are free to anyone who asks) could be legitimate. That’s the issue with trolls. There actually are people that ignorant and arrogant in the world.
I’m not saying that I’ll change his mind. Either he is a troll, and won’t change because it’s all a persona he puts on when he wants to rile people up online, or he’s legitimately that shallow and ignorant, and I have seen plenty of shallowness and ignorance in real life, though, not to his level. Either way, I don’t expect him to change, just keep on providing amusement. Don't worry. My sense of self-worth is not so fragile that some kid online calling me pathetic will send me into depression.
Mateusz:
Mike Holmes 695:
Nope, we never had. You posted your drivel, and I replied to it. I’m pretty sure I would have known if we met, though. When did I post my salary, I’m curious?
“How else do I know your pathetic? Well its simple, in all of your postings to me over the months, you have never come up with anything other than my spelling”
Exactly. I never posted anything about how you spell (and also fail to have cogent arguments besides name calling and “I’m rich, so therefore better than you.”). Your deductive skills are astounding.
“Instead making the same old lame snarks about my spelling a smart person would probably ask why everyone always seems to want to pay me so much?? “
Honestly, I don’t know how much you get paid, and don’t care. You claim to be rich, but that’s just what you say. You could be struggling paycheck to paycheck, or have gotten a cushy job where even someone with your language ability and social skills can get overpaid due to knowing the right people. In China especially, there’s little connection between amount of work done and amount of money gained. I don’t want to think about what favors you did to who in order to “earn” so much more than the average teacher.
“Perhaps it because I am independent? Useless people people are ALOT of work for employers.”
Really? And what of value do you actually do? What skills and education put you above other “people people”, and why do you keep having to tell everyone on the Internet that you are not worthless? For someone so awesome, you need to validate yourself repeatedly on a China forum.
mike695ca:
Poor people often make this argument. There is no connection between skill and success in China. Its all about who you know. If this makes you sleep better dealing with your own shitty life thats good for you. You can justify your own uselessness in this way. Your hopeless dude. That exact atitude is why you will be poor forever. I hope you play the lottery, or is that to difficult to do in China too?
Mateusz:
People make that argument all the time? Why would that be? It’s like they think guanxi is a part of Chinese culture, which is crazy talk. Everyone knows people are in the positions they are based on qualifications. They must all be jealous of your money bin. I’m sure your wealth is based on your awesomeness.
mike695ca:
News flash fucker, i dont work in the government. Im a laowai. People pay me and not you because im better than you. And you will remain poor forever unless you stop making excuses for yourself.
Mateusz:
The even greater news flash is that I accused you of being in the government. Thanks for clearing that up. So right you are. When I signed my last contact, they told me they have to make me poor. When I asked why, they said it’s because Mike is so smart and awesome and better than me in every objective way, so they pay him like a million RMB.
Two years ago we almost bought a new car but when we went home and really thought about it there was no point, due to traffic congestion, inadequate parking, penalties and I wouldn't fully trust the servicing standards here. There is nothing wrong with buses, they are cheap and efficient. I don't have to work therefor time is my own. You sound just like the idiot rich here who believe that owning stuff makes them a better person. It reminds me of a line from an old Shania Twain song, "so you have a car, that don't impress me much". If you are so hung up on buying stuff you really need tp get a life.
Shining_brow:
Mike - did you just offer a valid counter to his argument...
Oh, no, sorry... didn't really think so.
mike695ca:
@shining. What exactly was his argument? Please show me where i spoke of having a car? If you guys had the intellect to stick to the point there would be a chance to have arguments and counters.
tomcatflyer:
You did not specifically say you had a car but the abuse hurled at people who take buses and also those who do not take the driving test clearly show where you stand on this.
mike695ca:
Well you obviously missed my point. This is why i gabe clear ideas. Such as living near a metro station or near work. My problem is with people that complain about their situation and do nothing because of what? Red tape? Just blame china for everything. My argument had nothing to do with being rich or not. Just useless or not. Everyone bitches about the bus. No one feels comfortable taking the bus. Yet very very few actually need to.
Mike, I got a lot of these same comments in the past as well. I'm quoting someone smarter than me here, but basically there are two ways to take criticism like that. You can attack the person saying it or you can ask why it bothers you. If you're happy where you're at then who cares? it's just someone who disagrees with you. If you're not, then what you're getting mad about is the situation and not the person saying it.
Take me for example, I don't have a car. I've set up my life to be perfectly OK taking the subway (i grew up in a subway city) and taxis. So, if me and mike were in a room and he's telling me I'm a loser because I don't have a car I would sincerely laugh in his face. (btw he's NOT saying that, he's saying people are losers for whining and settling instead of getting their shit together when it is pretty easy) If I had a local wife and lived/worked outside of downtown i'd definitely get one.
Buses do suck...it's every conceivable disadvantage rolled into one with the one advantage of being the cheapest option. Your time has value too. What I take away from what mike is saying, and 100% agree with, is that nobody HAS to be in a stupid situation here.
People say shit about how they can't afford to live in big cities and then bitch about the problems of living in these other places. ANY legit, native english college grad can score 20K a month in one of the Big 4 cities. However anyone is living out in the country you live the exact same way in a big city and have 1000s more in their pockets every month EASY and live on a subway line. Nobodies gonna be holding to be holding a gun to your head saying you gotta live in a 12K/mth luxury CBD high rise and drink 50rmb import drafts. Plenty of those old walk ups everywhere and qingdaos still 4 kuai on the corner. So are you afraid you won't be able to control yourself from blowing your $ on western food/drink or that you'll feel self conscious living local without the excuse that there isn't any other option. Neither of those is really a great argument.
Anywhere in the mainland can be lived in SO cheap that it does kinda raise questions about having roommates. At least past 26 or so. I get maybe someone needing something short-term...but frankly it is settling in 90% of the cases. This isn't NYC, San Fran or Hong Kong where you make good money and still not be able to afford your own place. Anybody who can make 20K a month can afford to set up a decent life...and every US/UK/AUS/CAN etc with a degree can make that!
So the only reason anybody here doesn't have their shit together is poor planning/irresponsibility. If you're living in a way you hate...constantly pissed off your neighbors are ignorant bumpkins, pissed your roommates are running up the electric bills, angry that your school doesn't pay you on time and that there's nothing good to eat than you only have yourself to blame. Get yourself somewhere better. ESL can make good money, but it also gives you the option of just writing off year after year not developing yourself. You can be super irresponsible and survive in a free apartment with your bills paid and never have to take any responsibility. But if you make that choice, don't bitch about the consequences of having nothing to show for yourself. Own it. Don't make excuses like you're just some victim of circumstance, choices have consequences.
This isn't some rich guy saying "oh you stupid teacher peasants...be envious of me" just like it wasn't when I said similar things. Both me and mike came here as basic ESL teachers and figured out how to get into much more comfortable lives starting from absolutely zero connections. Maybe it's not a coincidence we share a lot of the same values.
My point is this...if you're happy where you're at you shouldn't get riled up about criticism. I'm not insecure about not having a car. I don't begrudge the idea that having a car is a great thing.
expatlife26:
Shit didn't realize how long that was gonna be.
Condensed version: I agree with mike as usual, it's so easy for any legit degreed westerner to have it OK here that when people complain about their situation it could usually be solved or avoided with better choices
Both mike and myself came here as entry level ESL teachers and are now in more comfortable lives. We also seem to share a lot of the same values...probably not a coincidence.
mike695ca:
Careful, dont agree with me publicly too often or you will be called out for being another one of my accounts haha.
I really dont understand how the argument always turns into " Mike is rich and beating the poor dudes"
I try to either not generalize or make a point to show that there are exceptions. And anyone that actually reads it would see the point has nothing to do with what you buy or your salary. And it has everything to do with people complaining that they CANT do anything because its too hard.
Every single one of my examples are must haves back where they come from. Fuck even if you dont have a car, you have a damn license. A comfortable living situation and a way to get to work is a must have anywhere.
Hell i made a very clear point that you can just choose to live near a metro station.
They arent gonna get it, doesnt matter how clear you put it. They are unlucky geniuses and we are lucky idiots. Simply as that.
But I did notice how over time the post went from cordial to rambling. Even the people who disagreed with me at the begging tried to at least understand what I was getting at. Then the rantings started...... I also dont understand why people dont look at the upvotes and comments before they attack. Its right down the middle. Half of the population here agrees with me. So youd think they would be able to at least spend a second considering the points.
expatlife26:
Haha, maybe they will think that. We might be two very different people but yeah one thing we do have in common are a lot of the same values.
When I wrote that blog piece about how I got out of teaching, I counted the tone of all the comments the final score was something like 16 agrees and 15 disagrees and a few rando neutrals. Weird how it splits right down the middle like that.
I really didn't take away that you were saying no car = total loser, but that you're saying that not having your shit together and whining makes you a loser.
Car is just an example of something needs little planing and strategizing but it is easy enough to get if you want it. If I lost my job and had zero $ in my bank account right now, I could get a teaching job and own a car within a year if that was my goal. No doubt about it.
As hard as it might be to get into a solidly middle class western career here, any american with a real or fake degree can settle into $40K a year working full time teaching which is as easy to get as a McJob. And that's fucking awesome...you sure as hell can't do that at home. Does that make you a millionaire fuck no, but it's enough to buy your way out of a lot of China misery and have a comfy life.
Thats why it's annoying to me when somebody posts an honest question like Hey how do I get myself a car here? and the same people crawl out of the woodwork saying Oh it's so hard! Don't even bother! You'll never make it! Stay down!
I mean have you tried or do you just want to be validated for not having one? I guess one place I will bring income into the equation is when people say that they don't drive for the environment and want a pat on the back for it...they better be able to afford a car. Otherwise it's like me saying I don't take a private jet cause I'm such a man of the people. If it's not a choice it's not an accomplishment.
Obviously every point doesn't apply to everybody...so people going and saying they pay their own bills and go to the supermarket isn't necessary. Maybe there aren't that many of the true 100% man-children living in the free apartment with the utilities taken from salary living in fear of other expats making them less special and sleeping around with women for whom the bar is set at "Not sharing a studio with 7 other guys"...but that doesn't mean that just because someone doesn't have ALL of those problems that they are perfect and shouldn't do a little self reflection.
Robk:
Screw those haters, I agree with both you lol.
If three ESL past teachers can move onto something better then nobody else has an excuse so be bitching about "hard life in China".
I don't think anyone here did anything amazing to make the transition. Just used your head and stayed hungry. Expatlife26 is right, if these posts bother people then it is because someone about their life bothers them and you just brought out the insecurity.
I will be the first to admit I was insecure about my previous position in China. And it bothered me, so I changed it. Now nobody could say anything to make me feel the same. Self-respect is amazing when you earn it. You can get a cheap car here easily for like 20k RMB. If someone can't save up 20k RMB... then what the hell are they doing in China? I thought that was one of the best points of living in China... to be able to easily save.
expatlife26:
well my whole thing is that it's ok to be insecure...I mean really ambition and insecurity are the same thing it's just how you frame it.
i dont feel ashamed to say I wasn't happy with where I was being a teacher cause I didnt see where I could go with it. Though actually now I realize you can make a lot more with it than I had thought. Still just not for me.
Shining_brow:
Expat - there's a significant difference about what you posted here, and the way Mike posted in the OP. Tone!
Mike was deliberately insulting, and as much as he's tried to say he doesn't generalise, he clearly uses it to 'support' his 'argument'.
RobK - it's actually a BS argument to assume that because someone doesn't like his post has something in their lives they aren't happy with and don't want to confront. Some people (such as myself) are able to see beyond merely myself.
Mike did his post in a way that was deliberately insulting and generalised - meant to piss people off. As KimO pointed out above - he's set his values, and judged everybody else by them.
Expat's post here I would totally agree with, and not argue against. But Mike has shown he's a wanker... again!
Robk:
@shining -
Sometimes you shouldn't just listen to the message itself but try to get the purpose fo it. Was he trying to make everyone else feel bad? No, I don't think so.
Was he trying to make a specific group of people feel bad? Yes, possibly. But if you get so easily offended then why did you get so offended?
Let's me honest, Mike is just a guy on a forum to most of us. So why would you read his post and be like... "this guy thinks he can judge me, I am so pissed off!"
It doesn't make any sense, you must care what he thinks AND/OR because it must strike a cord that one may be bitter about. Possibly Mike reminds some people try to get away from responsibility and diligence that, THAT is exactly what they are doing and they DO NOT want to be reminded.
I agree with you, I got a motorcycle exactly because I HATE the damn bus. You got tons of dull cow eyed bastards staring at you and it is like a sardine can. Taxi cabs, sure... but they drive like lunatics or ever try to get one during rush hour or in the rain? OR the worst... RUSH HOUR WHILE RAINING? It is basically impossible.
So I would much prefer a car/motorcycle (don't like the ebikes) over that noise. I love using a motorcycle, you can serve around cars, in and out of the bike lane at will... and parking is easy to find. It is nice... until Winter comes.
I agree a lot of people here ARE lazy and that is why they stay here while complaining all the time. A lot of like being babied and not making decision for themselves.
Basically, they just treat it as an extended vacation. They have no investment here so they live like they have one foot on the plane out. So I can understand that ... but it is still not healthy... it is like sitting around mentally and physically dormant.
To all those who have been here a while, man up and get something going. Don't use being a foreigner as an excuse to be a lazy SOB. You embarrass the rest of us, not that you care...
mike695ca:
Agreed. I didnt even mean for it to turn into a salary dick swinging contest. I was more talking about the little things. Not living in filth, basic tv, buying a towel haha not things for rich people. Hell even taking charge in your visa process... Things that adults do in every single country except here it seems. I wasnt talking at all about people even buying cars. I was saying choose to live , not near a pub, but in a place you can afford that has transportation that makes sense. And that the fact people think the actual work to get a drivers license is difficult seems crazy. Sais alot about people.
expatlife26:
I think it has everything to do with expectations.
You can get away with being kind of a bum here and still have it better than most. Good enough to have certain women approach you.
For a certain kind of person that's enough. Why bust your ass for more?
I actually don't buy that every girl here has some kind of white guy fetish, so much as even foreigners of modest means still hit a lot of checkboxes
Show me a 180 CM 77 KG Chinese guy, who in his 20s and can make 10K/mth. Who has a foreign passport and established family abroad. Whose parents possibly own a home and almost certainly drive cars.
I'll show you a guy who has MORE dating options than the western "loser" that chinese guys get all worked about stealing their women. Our average can be their exceptional.
I personally don't have much interest in Asian women, but that's just my opinion, I have friends who date/marry really pretty awesome women here. But they had to compete for them. They weren't just living in a crap shack and told "Oh, so handsome!" I'm not saying no good relationships have been started that way either, but it's less likely you're going to meet somebody with any kind of sophistication that (as somebody said, "who you don't have to bug to shave their armpits") or who dont have trashy ignorant paremts who would try and impose their shitty values into my life. (i would totally freak the fuck out I couldnt cope with that...my weakness)
But again, I know i'm preaching to the choir here. I don't need to ask you guys "why bust your ass for more?"
Robk:
Meh, I think the moral of your post is really just this...
Stop being a bitch and be a man. And that's good because comparisons and competition is a powerful driving force to live up to one's potential.
I meet a lot of cool, nice and interesting foreigners here. But very few that are living up to their potential and maybe they do need a good dose of "MAN THE FUCK UP!" to wake up and realize they can do more with their lives.
Bitches will cry and say... "leave me alone!" But men will step up and say "I will prove you wrong and I will enjoy doing it. And while I am at it, thanks for giving me the motivation to push harder." Worst thing is not living up to your potential... that's the whole point of life and one of the single things can can give you true happiness. Wish someone would have smacked some sense into me when I was younger.
ScotsAlan:
Robk.
If everyone took your advice, would that not mean more competition for you. I know lots of people (men and women) who could be excellent business people, but they choose not to because they value other things before money.
Society would be a strange place if everyone was a "go getter winner". Who would do the work? Who would built the cars you are so proud of if all the car workers were out there building internet shops?
Fine, you have done well for yourself and you stand high on your pedestal as a role model for us all. But please don't say people are losers if they choose to take a road that bypasses your pedestal.
expatlife26:
scots...I actually feel like China is a wannabe version of the place you describe.
A dystopian world where EVERYBODYS parents are lunatics about academics (just retards about each)
EVERYONES goal is to get rich
and everyone completely miserable because if everyone has the exact same goals theres no possible way for anyone to stand out.
Robk:
@ScotsAlan
Not saying everyone should be a business person, just using their talents and utilizing their potential and besides...
For me it is more like an entrepreneur, which isn't about the money. It is about creating something new and building on a new idea. The money part is just a side bonus of the success.
Taking an idea and making it real is awesome. Doesn't have to be in business... could be an inventor, an artist, a scientist, or even just someone starting up a small vending cart. Better than sitting around and making excuses.
Transport... I choose not to have a car (and, therefore, the license) because it'd be far more trouble than it's worth. I also want quality. And comfort, and keep it in one piece! And perhaps the most important reason of all - I DON'T WANT TO KILL SOMEONE! Or even get into a minor bingle. Back home - sure, no problem. But here, people are just way too stupid for it not to happen - and I'm far too likely to second-guess others. AND I seriously don't want the stress on my nerves in having to look 360 degrees every single fucking second!
Much more sane for me to sit in a bus, and let some psycho bus driver go through all that crap!
I choose to live way out from the city - cos I like the quiet, and looking at the hills and trees which I Know I can be walking in in 10 minutes. There's also a handy bus line 5 minutes from my doorstep, and a bus terminus about 10 mins walk.
I know I fall into the 'acceptable' reasons for not having a car (or not, with the first) but it's pretty fkn insulting to just generalise the way he has.
How can we tell it's generalised and merely insulting BS?
Because he needed to exaggerate!
Mike, in all your trollishness, I challenge you to re-write the OP with NOT A SINGLE WORD OF EXAGGERATION OR GENERALISATION IN IT!
Expat and RobK have both agreed with your sentiments, but you don't see them getting flamed the same way you have. Why? Because they haven't come across as arrogant arseholes trying to insult anyone whose lives they don't agree with (blatantly).
You use Ad Hominem's left, right, and centre. You forgo logic, and completely ignore valid counter-arguments (like you will to this post!) in favour of personal attacks.
You are, in short (and long), a troll!
(PS, no, you don't earn "double or triple" what I'm on...)
mike695ca:
I agree. I use too many exaggerations and generalizations. But you kind of sound like a woman. Its my tone?? Grow a pair dude. Your like a woman that cheats on her boyfriend but goes on the offensive because he called her a bitch. If my tone and choice of words completly hide my points, that others seem to agree with by the way, then you certainly aint looking very hard. Please share with me which parts of my OP you found offensive and i will gladly reword them for you in an effort to improve our communication.
Shining_brow:
I "need to grow a pair" because I point out how you troll?? Interesting 'logic'!
mike695ca:
Actually thats perfect logic. Your a grown ass man who is upset with some dude on the internets tone. You get pissed at me for being insulting in one sentence and then call me a wanker in the next. Way to take the high road buddy. How are you any different from me? Your attacking me because i have values different than your own? Hmm where have i heard that before? You said it yourself, by your own estimation i wasnt refering to you in my OP in anyways so you cant claim to take offense. Arent you in fact trolling just as much as you claim I am?
Shining_brow:
A: what makes you think I'm male? You make lots of such presumptions with no hint of reasoning.
Also, for some stupid patronising reason, you think that a 'man' is fine getting insulted by a troll on the internet (which you keep doing - trolling, that is. Trolls affect many people on boards - men and women - that's the way the operate).
I'm not 'upset' with some guy on the internet.... I know you're a wanker. You've demonstrated it about 3 times now (that I can immediately recall). It's not enough for you to express your opinion - you need to be derogatory at the same time. You need to insult other people to make a point. You can't use good logic or reasoning - or you would have done so by now, and countered the logical points made above.
I suspect you feel somewhat insecure about yourself. Hence the need to put other people down (as others have pointed out).
As I said above, there are ways to get a point across.... you could have gotten yours across and had most people agree with you with no flaming. You chose your way because it's what a troll does... to encourage flaming and personal attacks. It's a troll's purpose to create chaos, to stir up animosity, to create friction.
And, anytime some arsehole decides it's open season on being offensive, they've opened it up on themselves! That's my logic!!
By your 'logic;' because I'm not black or homosexual, I can't take offense to you insulting homosexuals or black people. This shows just how close-minded (and, hence, a wanker) you are! And, your attempts to justify it ("It wasn't directed at me, so I shouldn't take offence") is again another troll tactic.
Your 'values' are fine to have... while they don't affect other people in a negative way. Coming onto a forum, and telling people what they should do, telling them how they should live, and being generally insulting and offensive to make your point about how great your opinions are... that's crossed the line. And, again, you open yourself up to attack. I know this, because I've been on this forum for a number of years, and I don't get flamed for expressing my opinions, or suggesting what people should do (other than by trolls...)
I already suggested how to re-write it (although I left out the insult and offense aspect). As I said then - I know you won't... trolls don't give in to the wishes of other forum members.
mike695ca:
Btw, i like you how threw racism in there, a topic that doesnt have anything to do with it. Thats not inflammatory at all. I find it funny that you keep insisting i rewrite the post yet refuse to see how much of a hypocrite you are. Your logic is that you can behave in the exact same way because i deserve it? I also find it funny that you keep claiming i am ignoring good points ,when you have no trouble ignoring my arguments what so ever. Again, your a hypocrite and blind to the fact. Youve also ignored the fact that i asked which parts you took offense to, but i digress. In the interest of saving time, im going to focus on @kim @ mateuzs posts because these are the ones you have focused on and kept saying where good points. Keep in mind , they kept saying over and over for every argument that its none of my business. Not easy to have a conversation based on that. Not exactly a "point" i need to be referencing. Ok lets go! Transportation. You guys really seem jealous about this because you keep referencing how you dont want a car. Yet anyone who can read would know that i never said everyone should have a car. All i said was people make poor life decisions about this. Theu can move near a subway, they can move near work. They have the option to buy a cheap second hand car. Now if you do not want any of these things that is ok. The whole point was Dont complain! The drivers license thing was the same idea. People claiming they cant get a drivers license in China because its too difficult. So please share with me how environmentalism plays a role for someone who is actively searching how to get a drivers license and quits because its hard? Housing is the same as transportation. If you are perfectly happy about your situation than good for you. As an adult, i find living in an apartment with strangers creepy. I would argue that matty up there agrees as before he attacked he made a point to say that he lives alone. I wonder why he would find the need to do that? Again 3 friends living together is cool. Someone living with a creepy dude and bitching about it. Or someone complaining about their apartment is breaking down? You have options. Dont complain. Most people that want a great house choose to live further from the city. If someone makes a choice to live downtown and doesnt want to take the time to fix little broken things. Then dont complain! It is not hard. Again, in their home countries, these are easy life choices. Food, this is a poor argument for all involved. No where did i speak of buying expensive food. Infact i specifically mentioned cooking at home which is a low cost option. I am sure you are going to find this to be flaming, but i will say it again. If you cannot afford basic food and housing in China than you have made a mistake. Again, your doing, dont complain. Yes some cities are more expensive but the salaries are higher, you can make a change. Complaining about your poor decisions isnt going to help. Own your mistakes and take control of your own life. Start making adult decisions. I find your counter arguments to be poor. It is none of my business but its an open forum and others seem to agree. Anyone who chooses to live their life in a certain way is fine with me, but anyone who chooses that life wouldnt be spending their days mad because China is holding them back.
Your overall point is a good one, but some of your individual points are a bit patronizing. People may genuinely have a good reason for doing things which you look down on - hell, I've done most of them, and I haven't given up on life.
Some people genuinely do love the food in the country they move to (and are not concerned about nutritional content) so are happy to eat their favourite every day. Good luck to them, if their wallet and stomach agree then it's the way forward. I couldn't deal with three Chinese meals a day, but when I was in SE Asia I basically didn't eat 'western' food.
Also, not everyone wants/needs/can drive a car. In China I worked bang in the centre of town and it was a 30-40 minute walk so in winter I took the bus (there'd be nowhere to park and in rush hour finding taxis in Urumqi is like finding gold nuggets. And it's f**king cold in winter, screw walking in minue 20 degrees). Of course I grumbled about the shitty busses, but I still took them. In Sydney I take the busses because they're cheap, clean and convenient to my workplace, which is also in the centre of the city. This does not make me crackhead.
Houses: personally I hate commuting long distances, and will pay more to live close in to my workplace/the CBD (which are normally one and the same) but this usually means I have to deal with noise/congestion, which drive some people crazy. If others choose to live out in the 'burbs, pay less, and deal with the commute, it's not the choice I'd make but fukkit.
I've moved into a large sharehouse with strangers, not at home but in Vietnam, and that was probably the best house I've lived in. I chose a sharehouse rather than my own pad so I could meet people in a new place. It worked.
Sheets: 100% with you. That's just nasty.
mike695ca:
Hey, thanks for at least reading it first haha. A few things. The point was that people dont do things because its too hard. Then complain about China. Anyone who owns their decisions? Good for them . i know many people spoke of buying a car so people get confused but i didnt! I merely spoke of how many people complain how hard it is to get a license. I habe no problems with people that dont want a car. I do have a problem with people activly searching for ways to drive but cannot. You.make your choices to live in the center and deal with the bullshit, your not stuck, therefore not useless. Good on ya. Ok i stand by the crackhead bus comment. I made a note that im not sure about europe , and australia could fit into there. If a NA person wants to say im wrong??? Flaming yes, but there is a basis to it. Too be honest, that people got so mad kinda makes me think im right. Im guessing someone from a place that taking buses is common and OK would just think im a moron and move on. Also seems logical that the people getting mad are americans...
Spiderboenz:
Maybe I'm a special case, but I sold my car when I returned home from Baghdad in '07, and have not been behind the wheel since then.; Spring/summer/fall I would use my bike/walk, and during the winter I would use the bus. I do not recall coming across any crackheads.
