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Q: The Mexican Wall....

Is it actually going to happen?

 

Will it be effective?

 

Is Trump a complete moron for actually thinking the Mexicans would pay for it?

 

Given that the Mexican Prez just said he couldn't be arsed going to the US to meet with Trump for talks (not surprisingly), especially after Trump said "if you won't pay for our (the US's) wall - don't bother coming.

 

The US apparently has a $60Billion trade deficit to Mexico...  That's a LOT of money to make up...

 

I'm sure there are some right-wingers here who may think that, like Trump and the other simpe-minded people,  Mexico has a "responsibility" with regards to this wall - but from an international perspective (ie, Mexico's) - are you serious????? "I have a problem - YOU have to fix it!"

7 years 8 weeks ago in  Relationships - China

 
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Mexico has a wall on their southern border and I think America should have the same immigration laws that Mexico has, I mean we do want to be fair, right.

retiredinchina:

actually mexico could do a deal with trump and some of the products made in china could be made in mexico and mexico goes along with wall and builds the economy in Mexico so that nobody needs to cross the border. it could be made to be a win-win.

7 years 8 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

The only reason there is an illegal Mexican migrant problem is purely because of the economy/standard of living in Mexico! As you said, if that improved, the issue would reduce.

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20% tax on all Mexican goods ....id say they are paying for it .
Just think of the jobs it will create .
Anybody know how long the US /Mexican border actually is?

Shining_brow:

Wiki: "The total length of the continental border is 3,201 kilometers (1,989 mi)."

7 years 8 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Trump Administration Releases Map Of Proposed Border Wall

As the Trump administration mulls the cost (and payments) for 'the wall' with Mexico, some have suggested the barrier be extended a little...

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I agree with Phil and ZeroHedge is reporting it too ... Did you know, Phil is reading '0H'? me neither.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-26/sean-spicer-reveals-how-mexico-...

 

It looks, it isn't empty treat, because Nieto declined meeting with Trump-a on NAFTA:

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-26/angry-trump-threatens-cancel-ni...

 

Things just got more "complicated" in US-Mexican relations, when on Thursday morning the feud between the US and Mexico deepened after president Pena Nieto said he cancelled a planned summit with Donald Trump over the US president’s insistence that Mexico pay for his proposed border wall between the two countries.

“This morning we have informed the White House that I will not go to the meeting scheduled for next Tuesday with “POTUS,” Enrique Peña Nieto tweeted in Spanish.

Shining_brow:

"Mexicans are all rapists, murderers and drug addicts...."

 

Gee, I wonder why Nieto would turn down an invitation from Trump?

7 years 8 weeks ago
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icnif77:

He accepted again, after the condition: ''no discussions at the meeting about the wall and 'payee'' 

Look at the Trump-a's face expression ..... 

Trump, Mexican President Hold Hour-Long Phone Call, Agree Not To Discuss Payment For "The Wall"

Shortly before his meeting with Theresa May, President Donald Trump spent one hour talking on the phone to the president of Mexico, Pena Nieto, amid "rising tensions" over Trump's proposed wall along the border.

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Ross Greenwood: What Trumponomics means for the global economy
Nine Network Business and Finance editor Ross Greenwood By Nine Network Business and Finance editor Ross Greenwood

Ross Greenwood on what the Mexican wall tax really means for Americans, and the global economy.
FTBA
Hate Donald Trump, or love him as you like. But admire one thing about him. As a politician, he is doing exactly what he promised before he came to power.

Tear up the Trans Pacific Partnership? For better or worse, it's gone. The North American Free Trade Agreement. Yep, it's changing.

Alter the relationship with Russia and China? It's done.

Build a wall with Mexico, and get Mexico to pay for it? Well, now Donald is getting around to that as well.

The US President said he'll start building a border wall within months – and he wants Mexico to pick up the bill.
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There are technicalities to be worked out. Like how Mexico will pay for the $15 billion wall. The latest suggestion is a 20 percent tariff on all goods imported from Mexico to the US.

Here are the stats, from the US Trade Representative Office. In 2015, the US exported $267 billion to Mexico. It imported $316 billion. That's where Donald gets the $50 billion imbalance in the relationship he talks about.

But the US gets plenty from the goods it imports from Mexico. Like cheap cars. Cheap beer. Cheap machinery.

In return the US exports to Mexico the sort of things the US sends to the rest of the world. Phones (some admittedly made in China); vehicles, electronics, bacon (yes, bacon) and dairy products.

So if Donald succeeds in getting a 20 percent tariff on Mexican goods, the price of Mexican products will rise for US consumers. That tariff is expected to pay for the wall (in fact it will pay for the wall several times over, every year). Therefore, it's pretty easy to argue that American consumers will really pay for the wall through the higher prices they will pay for Mexican goods.

And while a tariff might make American companies more competitive in their home market (because the imports will carry the additional tax burden) they will also become less competitive when they try to get their products south of the border (because, almost inevitably, Mexico will hit American goods with a similar tariff).

US President Donald Trump confirmed plans to begin building a wall on the US-Mexico border.
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What we're talking about here is a good old-fashioned trade war... the sort of thing the world tried to get out of from the 1980s onwards.

Remember, the US and Mexico are neighbours and, historically, have had terrific relations. The next visit for Donald Trump is UK Prime Minister Theresa May - another traditional ally. May has her own relationship problems, with Europe and her hard Brexit option which has driven the British pound to the floor.

The likelihood is she will seek a Free Trade Agreement with the US, similar to the one Australia has. But this will be more tricky in the aftermath of the TPP pull-out. As Trump has said, any trade partner that complains about their deal with the US, could find that agreement ripped up within 30 days.

There is some synergy here, because only in the past week Australia's Deputy Prime Minister and Agriculture Minister Barnaby Joyce has been in Europe at a G20 summit testing the ground for Free Trade Agreements between Australia and Europe, and Australia and the UK.

US President Donald Trump America has revived two controversial oil pipeline projects previously blocked by Barack Obama.
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He told me it is likely that an agreement with the EU will come first, followed by the UK once it has departed from Europe.

While all this is taking place, the elephant in the room remains China. The US does not have a free-trade deal with China. Australia does. Yet China is the US's largest trade partner. In 2015, the US imported $482 billion worth of goods from China (the main goods are electrical machinery). The US exported to China $116 billion worth of goods, mainly aircraft, electrical machinery, various grains and cars.

You see the problem here? Unlike Australia, which has a massive trade surplus with China (because our huge iron ore, coal and gas exports dwarf imports), America is the opposite. It runs a huge deficit with China, which makes Trump and his supporters believe that jobs and business has been shifted to China's advantage.

Now just take the deficit between the nations - around $366 billion. Imagine if Trump put a 20 percent tariff on all that? We're talking $73 billion a year. Again it would make Chinese goods more expensive for American consumers, but it would be an instant shot in the arm for anybody competing against those Chinese imports.

The only issue: does this make America more efficient? More productive? Of course not. But right now that's not the message Donald Trump is winning support with. Making America great is what he's all about. And if it costs China and Mexico, or even the long-term global economy well that's what it will take.

Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/2017/01/27/15/31/ross-greenwood-what-th...

Shining_brow:

"So if Donald succeeds in getting a 20 percent tariff on Mexican goods, the price of Mexican products will rise for US consumers. That tariff is expected to pay for the wall (in fact it will pay for the wall several times over, every year). Therefore, it's pretty easy to argue that American consumers will really pay for the wall through the higher prices they will pay for Mexican goods."

 

Ah, yeah!

7 years 8 weeks ago
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7 years 8 weeks ago
 
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Mexico has a wall on their southern border and I think America should have the same immigration laws that Mexico has, I mean we do want to be fair, right.

retiredinchina:

actually mexico could do a deal with trump and some of the products made in china could be made in mexico and mexico goes along with wall and builds the economy in Mexico so that nobody needs to cross the border. it could be made to be a win-win.

7 years 8 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

The only reason there is an illegal Mexican migrant problem is purely because of the economy/standard of living in Mexico! As you said, if that improved, the issue would reduce.

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should've said a better wall,,, lol,,, already a wall along a lot of the border.

 

I'd rather an Alligator infested Moat !

cub:

diver, people need to be reminded that a ''fence'' even if its 20 or 30 feet tall isnt a ''wall' as some assume or call it And sure there might be a real ''wall'' along some areas of the border but at most its only a very tall fence [for now] Think if a real wall was built 20 30 years ago along ALL the borders how difficult would be terrorists would gotten in and a terrorist attacked in the US that instead came over easy by our southern porous border how much cost and price is this compared to 8 13 20 billion a wall will cost? Safety has no price tag

7 years 8 weeks ago
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diverdude1:

@cub - I have been a President Trump supporter from day 1. Very much in favor of Border Security: Wall, Drones, Guards, Harsh penalties for invasion, Immediate deportation of invaders, and anything else that will secure our borders: north, south, east, west.

Guess where I grew up (mostly)? --  South Texas.  I've seen and lived the issue, it's not abstract to me.  (:

7 years 8 weeks ago
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philbravery:

Maybe we ca sell him our Rabbit fence....and the Dingo fence too

7 years 8 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Can you eat dingo? too ? you Ozz are bad ....

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So... he wants to insult all Mexicans, destroy (well, damage) their economy by a)imposing a 20% import tax on everything, and b) pull US companies out of Mexico (as far as manufacturing goes), AND wants them to pay for building their (US's) wall....

 

I get that he wants "America to be great again"... but at the expense of a really good neighbour and trade partner??? Sounds almost like China's "you hurt our feelings" blame everything on everyone else mentality.

cub:

@shining, the ''20%'' tax snt even decided yet but its a ''starting'' number DT has mentioned to get congress talking about the idea of a border tax to pay for this wall. After all congress are mad or rejecting the percentage number[ 20%] DT has started with, then he will probably lower it to maybe a lower # like 5 or 2% tax .DT is good at negotiating making good deals so he starts high then after all are talking about it then like a negotiator, he drops the 20% to a much better number like 5 or 2% much manageable and congress will go along with the lower% i mean even a lower 2% tax with the millions or billions of goods coming across the border will pay for the wall fast.

7 years 8 weeks ago
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Stiggs:

The problem people see with the tax is that imports from Mexico will become more expensive to cover the tax, so Americans will effectively be paying for the wall,twice. Mexico will also probably put a tax on goods going from the States to Mexico in a tit for tat move.

7 years 8 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

I think you two missed the more important part of my post... Trump insults Mexicans, and is effectively going to hobble trade between the two countries, while getting US companies out of there  - AND expects them to pay for the wall!

 

HA!

7 years 8 weeks ago
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Stiggs:

I got your point, and agree with it. My comment was aimed more at Cub and not really on topic.

7 years 8 weeks ago
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cub:

well, any illegal person in the USA will have to get used to being ''insulted'' by DT This should had been done [the wall] 30 years ago! Ilegally being here in the US ''insults'' americans very much by breaking our laws just by being in the country uninvited.

7 years 8 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Americans should first toughen the Law on 'illegal being living in USA'. 

Try and get a job or DL in EU by not holding 'Schengen passport'.

At online job application 1st Q: 'Name and surname', 2nd: 'Nationality?' and if your answer is 'USA' or any non-Schengen country, job application is shut down.

How are you going to live in Schengen, if you can't get job? Now, compare that with USA ... US$20 for DL, nobody bothers, if you show Zimbabwean passport. They just pay attention not to misspell one's name and if pic matches the face.

You can get any low paying job in USA just by walking into the joint.

Now, the other very important part of brazillion illegals in USA is Constitution: 'America is land of immigrants', what is very tough notion to beat, except if immigrant is criminal or she/he commits criminal offense, while in USA. You can even read how somebody was arrested for 2nd criminal offense and she/he is illegal, i.e. either remained in USA after the sentence was completed or expelled and freely returned to USA for 2nd shot at 'criminal system'.

Europeans have illegals too, but their life is much harder, nearly impossible, than it is in USA, Land of not-so-free. 

BuTT .... let's build the wall, 'cause that will open many new jobs and what not. Look at the USA roads, bridges, hospitals and so on. Rebuild and repair that first .... ohh, well!

7 years 8 weeks ago
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cub:

@icinf77 u are right, the USA is a land made up of immigrants But also the US is a land that has rules and laws to be obeyed and followed not ignored or broken by illegals. There is a RIGHT lawful way and a WRONG unlawful way to come to america No matter if a illegal has 10 kids 20 grandkids a business or been living in the US ilegaly 5,10,50 years they are not a american citizen. The statute of limitations never ends if they are ilegally here no matter how many family or how long they been living in the US ilegally. We who are born and live in the US and are citizens are required to obey and follow all laws so should they

7 years 8 weeks ago
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cub:

@shining, first of all american companies have no business being in mexico using a american named product but not made in the US thats fraud. Secondly its mexico who loses the most in any phantom trade war The gravy train ends for them! Also the slowing down of drugs is a big plus that come from mexico if a wall is there no, a wall isnt a 100% going to end all this but its a lot better than what we dont have now

7 years 8 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

@Stiggs - oh, ok, sorry....

 

@cub.. WTF are you on???

 

Firstly, Trump deliberately insults ALL Mexicans in his rants. Secondly, even if they are illegally residing (and working) in the US, that does NOT mean he should be insulting them by calling them rapists and drug addicts... the VAST majority of the illegal Mexican immigrants in the US are just trying to get along, do a job, get some money... AND try to become legal The ONLY 'threat' to US citizens is through not paying taxes (valid point) and driving wages down (arguable point - as it's only in some sectors - unskilled - and often in jobs Americans aren't willing to take (in those locations, or at that pay level)).

 

Secondly, the drugs will still keep coming (at least until Trump manages to kick the CIA in the arse.. but I doubt that's actually going to stop it!)

 

Thirdly, no, it will be the US that loses out in the trade war. The US needs Mexico.... Prices in the US will go up on items that Americans like to buy. Prices in Mexico won't go up so much, because they don't really need those goods... 

 

Fourthly. WTF planet are you on??? American brand products made overseas is now fraud?? Now you're speaking (writing) complete crap!

7 years 8 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

Cub: You're an idiot, Trump makes bad deals like the Carrier deal. He doesn't know how to leverage people. And you're a fool for thinking 'Iphone' should automatically mean it's made in America. You're confusing the brand with this slogan 'Made in the USA'

7 years 8 weeks ago
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cub:

@englteached and u are very obtuse! go stuff yourself! lets see, we are billions in the hole with mexico and they are our friends? They allow coyotes to direct illegals into our country and this is good? a american NAMED LABELED product made in mexico as a american product is FRAUD How about the name the brand product be changed to a mexican named product? @shining dont worry so much that causes worry lines

7 years 8 weeks ago
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Spiderboenz:

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

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Here's what idiots don't seem to understand about tariffs, they can cut both ways. y limited understanding of NAFTA was that there were no tariffs between the countries involved. So the tariffs were equal. The problem was American companies moving production to Mexico and sending back to America. Simple fix, exclude those specific products from NAFTA and hit them with a 35% tariff as promised. Again, simple easy fix but he's going about it the wrong way. But here' where I give him points , he's at the very least addressing the issue that all others ignored. Same as Obama with healthcare. (If my understanding of NAFTA is wrong, someone please correct me0

China is the biggest problem because of lopsided tariffs. around 22% (plus other markups) vs 2%. He simply needs to get a fair deal, non of the inflammatory BS (we're not North Korea)

cub:

i remember when NAFTA was being discussed then it was rammed down americas throats i remember before NAFTA was aproved saying all the millions of jobs AMERICAS jobs being canned also! Lokk at the US now after 20 plus years after NAFTA and as a test see how it been BAD for USA And our previous new world order muslim Obozo was trying to futher americas ruin with the TPP

7 years 8 weeks ago
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Hotwater:

"And our previous new world order muslim Obozo was trying to futher americas ruin with the TPP"

 

its amazing how easily it is to see someone's political leanings by how they address Obama. P.s. Learn to spell bozo!

7 years 8 weeks ago
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cub:

hot, i have NO ''political leanings'' thats PC of u Obozo didnt care for the US at all look around u hot, are we better off than we were 8 years ago since he screwed the US? name 1 thing he did for ALL americans that served ALL americans that made the US safer ok? i address obozo by his actions or inactions

7 years 8 weeks ago
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juanisaac:

The Mexicans will not pay the tariffs. The American consumer at the end of the check out aisle will pay for that tariff. If Mexico sells an avocado to a store for 1 dollar, and then Trump adds a 20% tariff, I will pay $1.20 cents when I purchase it from the store. So Americans from Alaska to Hawaii will pay what I pay.  What is to stop Mexico from putting tariffs on American products to retaliate? All this is doing making a huge trade war where both countries will lose.

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I do hope the Mexican president does meet soon, because after the wall is built and we actually enforce the laws again, it would be nice to give back 25 percent of the California prison population back to Mexico. illegal aliens who have committed violent crimes who would be deported back can leave early and help save the budget in California from getting worse. These numbers don't support the agenda, so they never talk about this.

retiredinchina:

just add a dollar to all money remittances to Mexico, western union, money gram, pay pal, wire transfers for a period of time with an expiration date. problem solved.

 

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Shining_brow:

And who do you think would end up with that money??? Ain't gonna be the people...

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retiredinchina:

the democrats run california, so there is no hope for the state at all, most pension funds are bankrupt, the roads are terrible and they already have some of the highest taxes in the country. If america was smart they would give california to mexico, but mexico would damage what they already have if they took the state.

 

It has no happy ending, a state full of free loaders, with an upper class of hollywood, politicians and tech nerds, who need to think they are gods while the productive are all leaving. The state of california is like houston when the oil bust hit, the last person out, don't forget to turn off the lights and cut the grass between the cracks of the freeways. the money remittances would just go into the federal funds to offset the cost but the debt is so high now, bankruptcy and starting over is the only solution.

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I travel to Mexico a lot and get to read their publications. From their point of view the US can build walls, moats, trenches, put land mines, introduce alligators into the Rio Grande or what not to protect its borders. The whole issue is having Mexico pay for all that. Today the estimate from the Trump administration is 12-15 billion. If the runaway costs of the F-35 are examples of USA government estimates it makes sense to me for Mexico not to give the USA a blank check.

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I travel to Mexico a lot and get to read their publications. From their point of view the US can build walls, moats, trenches, put land mines, introduce alligators into the Rio Grande or what not to protect its borders. The whole issue is having Mexico pay for all that. Today the estimate from the Trump administration is 12-15 billion. If the runaway costs of the F-35 are examples of USA government estimates it makes sense to me for Mexico not to give the USA a blank check.

cub:

the number ''20'' percent isnt finalized and trump might drop the percentage down to 2% or 5% and everyone is on board on both sides would agree to a lesser tarrif of 2% or 5% The 20% was DT starting point to get everyone talking and discussing this which is a start its better than ignoring the problem like the US has done for 30 plus years like it will go away

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Shining_brow:

My OP was less about the tariff, and more about the insults to the injury...

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cub:

@shining, i know but i was just giving some food for thought since the % of tarrif/tax isnt set in stone yet

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The thing with starting this wall is that it's not the type of thing you can knock up in a month or two.

 

I read somewhere it would need about twenty years just to build the thing, and that doesn't include the time it would take to go through all the legal stuff to acquire the land.

 

I would be surprised if Trump even sees out the end of his four year term, astounded if he got the second term and he definitely won't be around after that.

 

So, after he is gone it would fall to the next several presidents to carry on building the thing. What are the chances of that happening? I know anything can happen in politics and the last year certainly proved that but it doesn't seem like there's much support for the thing outside of the Trump camp. It could end up being an expensive partly finished white elephant.

retiredinchina:

if he asked for volunteers to build the wall, i would buy a ticket and go home to help tomorrow, he better finish the wall or his supporters want be there in  4 years to vote for him again. the best way is to give taiwan, philippines, south korea and japan each 100 nuclear missiles and withdraw all troops from south korea and japan and put them on the border to finish the wall. He should do this tomorrow.

7 years 8 weeks ago
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Stiggs:

If he asked for volunteers you would probably be on your own, or almost.

 

How many people would be willing to work free for probably years, often in the desert with no roads, bars, shopping or basic infrastructure? Labor intensive industries like orchards can't even get enough workers (they rely on Mexicans ), and they are based near civilization and actually pay their workers.

 

I think people pinning their hopes on this wall being finished and solving the illegals problem in the next four years had better brace themselves ,there's a good chance they're going to be let down by some outlandish promises..

7 years 8 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

Maybe Trump should just hire some Mexicans to build it...

 

 

(yeah, ok, I'm sure that line has been used many times before...)

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Plenty of countries, including Mexico, build border walls or at least border fencing, and in most cases nobody protests (by which i mean no Western middle class leftists protest, most people have better things to do than prance around with placards). Why single out the US for doing what many countries already do - control immigration and protect the security of their citizens?

Stiggs:

I think if another president announced he wants to build a wall people would generally be ok with it aside from questions and minor protests about the effectiveness and value for money etc. Most understand the need for border security even if they don't agree with how it's been done.

 

Trump is different though. To begin with a lot of people hate his guts and have no faith at all in his integrity, intelligence, ability to do the job or even sanity.  That alone will probably guarantee everything he does - even if it wasn't controversial - is going to be a battle.

 

Then there's the way he went about it. He came across as just making up a (sort of) plan on the spot in front of the cameras, without knowing what was involved, how much it would cost etc or how it was going to be done. The bit about making Mexico pay, when his eventual idea would actually mean the American taxpayer pays for it didn't do anything for his credibility.

Oh, and he called Mexicans murderers and rapists. Big no no for a politician.

7 years 8 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

It's not about 'border protection' - it was always about the demonisation of those on the other side of the fence! Mexicans are murderers, rapists, drug addicts etc etc etc...

 

Also, if your argument was actually valid, then Trump would also be talking about a wall going up north.

 

 

BTW - pls, links to which countries actually have walls or fences between them...

7 years 8 weeks ago
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RandallFlagg:

Shining_brow: A quick Google search would have answered your question.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_barrier

7 years 8 weeks ago
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RandallFlagg:

As for Trump dissing all Mexicans, that is a canard pushed by the left-wing media (i.e. 90% of the media). This article debunking it was written by a liberal professor.

 

http://www.salon.com/2015/12/21/the_media_needs_to_stop_telling_this_lie_about_donald_trump_im_a_sanders_supporter_and_value_honesty/

They did the same thing to Thatcher in the 1980s when they deliberately misconstrued and took out of context her "no such thing as society" comment.

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Shining_brow:

1: while I was after a real link, I did also expect (naively) that a little more thought would be put into the discussion than what you gave.

 

For instance, consideration that in MANY cases of 'walls' being built between countries, that those countries in question have been having 'hostilities'. Secondly, for many of those 'walls' they only extend for a short area - ie, NOT the entire border. (I find the Saudi - Yemen wall that the Saudis are intending to build to be hilarious - in that the Saudis bomb the fuck out of Yemen because they didn't like the government that was 'fairly' elected - and then decide to build a wall to keep them from surviving the war they created!!!)

 

 

2 - well done! Pick an article that's over a year old!!! 

 

7 years 8 weeks ago
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RandallFlagg:

"I did also expect (naively)" Come on, leave aside the snark. It seems you think you can be passively-aggressively rude because I like Trump and you don't, which somehow automatically makes me a bad person.

 

The article is over a year old? So what? The point is still valid. The fact that you complain about it being from 2015 is a diversion. You just don't want to acknowledge its points.

 

As for the walls - do you read the news? Northern Mexico is experiencing horrific violence and instability due to cartels and drugs. It is entirely appropriate for the US government to protect its own people by building defences on the borders. Why do you defend the walls of other countries but hate it when Americans do it? Why can the peoples of Africa and Asia stop illegal immigration and terrorism from entering their lands but not Westerners?

 

 

7 years 8 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

A: my 'snide' remark comes from Trump bandying around big words and promises - but being very thin on detail. Standard political practice... I've noticed that many of his supporters do the same. Ignore simple logic and facts, and just point fingers and yell loudly (metaphoric).

 

B: my OP was actually about Trump's attitude (at least, publicly) towards the people's of other countries (eg, Mexicans and Muslims). He insults Mexicans, and yet expects (just expects, mind you!) that they'll pay for it!

 

The year is actually relevant, because it is unable to address anything said about Mexico, Mexicans, or the wall at any time after it. Are you going to try suggesting that Trump did not say anything at all bad about Mexicans at all, at any stage, after that particular quote?

 

 

RE: walls around other countries.... you missed what I wrote! A - there are relatively few FULL BARRIERS TO IMMIGRATION between MOST countries in the world. From, those countries that do have such barriers, again MOST are NOT along the entire length of the border, AND many of those countries have been (or still are) at WAR (or at least, have intermittent fighting). So, the US is actually in pretty poor company in this situation...AND you'll find that those countries that do have a wall aren't expecting the other country to pay for it!

 

And, while I'm sure many in the population would make spurious accusations towards the illegal immigrants, their highest politician is usually somewhat more... politic!

 

 

I seriously think that the US needs to acknowledge the HUGE debt that they owe to Mexicans who have lived in the US for decades... not financial, but in what they've done for the country.

 

 

Now, should the US do something to curb illegal immigration? Sure, of course. How? Interesting question... a wall or fence? Probably. But to demand that Mexico pay for it? WHILE being insulted by Trump himself? No, I think not!!!!

 

The comparisons to 1930's Germany are actually appropriate. Scapegoats!

7 years 8 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

Well put, here's what he said.

“When do we beat Mexico at the border? They’re laughing at us, at our stupidity. […] When Mexico sends its people they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you; they’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists, and some, I assume, are good people. But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting.”

7 years 8 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

Three additions - which link to each other. The first is about that first 'Mexicans are rapists' line (and a few others). Taken out of context?/ No, I think not, especially when get later goes on to defend it...

 

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/totally-accurate-trump-defends-calling-mexican-immigrants-rapists

 

Then other comments he's made after the 2015 debacle that some have tried to downplay:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-outrageous-comments-mexicans-article-1.2773214

 

And, finally, some facts to cut is crap to pieces...

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/07/08/donald-trumps-false-comments-connecting-mexican-immigrants-and-crime/?utm_term=.2184d9822210

7 years 8 weeks ago
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Yeah this will happen, many companies have been noticed and those are the jobs Trump promised. The blueprints have been released, I saw them today. Its a wall that will have a style to its design.

retiredinchina:

everybody love the great wall, but america should not have one, makes sense to me.

7 years 8 weeks ago
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ironman510:

Wow I didn't think of that, mmm you might be on to something, a new great wall, the American Great Wall, that would be fun, and it would allow us to enjoy all forms of seasons.

7 years 8 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

Can you walk it? Can you see it from both sides?

 

Can you see it from space?? :p

7 years 8 weeks ago
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retiredinchina:

if you call it the trump wall, it will have everything, but if his name is not on it, its just a wall.

7 years 7 weeks ago
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https://realclimatescience.com/2017/01/snowiest-january-in-a-century-at-chama-new-mexico/

 

i guess i should bring a few coats while i help build the wall, the global warming might actually kill me while I'm working.surprise

retiredinchina:

hey al gore can i borrow your work gloves, my hands are red, no dumbass that's frostbite not sunburn, you idiot.

7 years 8 weeks ago
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juanisaac:

Don't forget to keep all your receipts so Mexico can pay you back.

 

 

7 years 8 weeks ago
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retiredinchina:

Actually the brothels and dentists in Mexico have been very good to me throughout the years, I will just consider it a charitable donation. I have a lot of blue color friends that live right across the border of San Diego and work in the San Diego area. One friend lives at playas beach in tijuana there and teaches mathematics for 63000 $ a year salary but can't afford to buy a house or rent an apartment in San Diego. He tells me that even police and fireman from San Diego live across the border because California is too expensive. Last census said 310,000 American workers live in tijuana and commute everyday and rent a post office box or get mail through relatives in the US side of the border. Nice 2bedrooms for 400 dollars right on the beach at playas beach and bus in about half a dollar per trip, 20 minutes from the border.

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Some people here are misinformed about a wall between Guatemala and Mexico. There is rickety ass fence, just like the USA already has a wall/fence on a third of its southern border.

The rest is just the Tapachula River where there is no wall and central Americans regularly come over.

That fence came from American funds given to Pena Nieto so Mexico can keep out the Central Americans. In other words Mexico is doing America's dirty work. It is so hard to keep Yankee conservatives happy. If Mexico lets Central Americans then it is an act of war. If Mexico deports Central Americans then it is hypocrisy.

It is amusing that the US is making Mexico pay for a wall on lands that used to belong to Mexico before illegal aliens overran Texas, California, and the rest of the Southwest from the southern United States. Like all America's wars they were fighting for freedom- the freedom to be US citizens and practice slavery. One just has to read the history of the two countries and decide who screwed who over.

Like Emiliano Zapata said "I rather die on my feet than live on my knees." Mexico is not that same country as in 1846 America, and we ain't paying "for that [effing] wall" like Vicente Fox said.

cub:

one way or another mexico will help pay for the wall no matter what vicente fox says, besides he is not in charge any more so he can talk tough all he wants. Name a country that hasnt went to war for land the after winning the war they claim it.. Parts of US used to belong to mexico so what? Thats very old news its history its in the past move on!

7 years 8 weeks ago
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juanisaac:

@ Cub. Nope, we ain't paying for it. Once you build it keep it for 2000 years like the Chinese so you advertise tourism to it and charge money to see it. By then is should have paid for itself.

7 years 8 weeks ago
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cub:

dont be so melodramatic by looking into a crystal ball into the future ok? Maybe most the american factories in mexico will feel the heat and leave mexico with thier jobs Now mexico has problems if this happens Whatever goods now made in mexico that first were made in the US we can make again

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It will be built soon and be manned by the Night's Watch

juanisaac:

It might be built soon, but we ain't paying for it.

7 years 8 weeks ago
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retiredinchina:

Mexicans have worked illegally under other peoples social security numbers and taxes they will never get back and helped american business with cheap labor get rich, the results are that Mexicans have been giving America your hard earned money for years, some it has had to be used to pay for civil and criminal costs to society of having Mexicans in the country, but sadly you probably paid for the wall several times already and just don't know it yet.

7 years 8 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

Only if they can actually convince the lords that Winter really is coming.... ooops, too late! It's here already :(

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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/02/01/dhs-secretary-border-wall-should-be-finished-in-two-years.html

 

if you don't want the wall built, not a good idea to hire a four star retired marine corp general that does not like to hear the word "no", he wants a time table of two years to finish. Interesting, he had never spoken or met Trump before he got a call to take the job.

cub:

well, Trump wants results a ''yes i can '' attitude not a ''no we cant' attitude

7 years 8 weeks ago
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juanisaac:

Like you he probably went to Tijuana too often and now can't get enough of the senoritas. I know that the Naval base of San Diego and Camp Pendleton are close to the border. From my research Gringo came from the time of prohibition. When a US soldier or Marine had a enough to drink the bartender used to yell: "Green go," in account of their uniform.

That general gets a salute from me for fostering good relations.

7 years 7 weeks ago
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retiredinchina:

San Diego also just got to damn expensive to live also, you can check craigslist for housing cost, a middle class family just can't live there, so many of them live across the border.

7 years 7 weeks ago
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