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Q: This is my Situation.
well where do i start.excuse the grammer and spelling.
I have been living and working in China (Shenzhen )for just over 14 years I have had work visas before.In 2009 I left my old job at the kindergarten and went to work in a Childrens training center,they promised a work visa but didnt come through.
After a year I went back to my old Job at the kindergarten they started the visa process and I had to go to HongKong to pick up my 30 day Z visa.my work took all the documents in and it got refused because my work took in photo copy of a fake qualification.they said the wanted to see the real qualifications.
of course there are no real qualifications.
I did not ask work to do this.I wanted to try and get a visa on what I have which is a certificate in early childhood care and education.I have refs from child care centers from Australia and New Zealand and I have well over 13 years teaching experience in China teaching kindergarten children.
I want to be legal,but I dont have a higher qualification that is needed to get a work visa.But I also feel that what I do have is good for the job that Iam in.
I teach from 2-6 years of age I dont teach older people because I dont know how.
my question is what options do I have as I really dont want to be kicked out of the country now I have a family.this worry is always on my mind,my wife is Chinese and I have a 9 month old boy.
I have been here to long to go back home (age is not on my side).
what are the chances of getting a work visa on compassionate grounds.or telling my case.?Iam good at my job I have been in the same job for over 12 years.
I would love some advice on my situation,Thanks for your help,I do plan on getting an ESL qualification.
10 years 2 weeks ago in Visa & Legalities - China
Here's an idea. Does your wife work? Get the spousal visa Q2. Start a business in your wife's name. Get your name on the business as an investor. Get creative after that. If you want to stay in China, you have to think out of the box in order to make money.
ironman510:
You'll only be able to get a Q2 in HK and take it to the PSB, your wife must have at least Y60,000 or 5 years of marriage and owning a house will replace that amount to help get you a Resident permit.( We'll probably never know the results)
I would skip the lecturing part as I take no pleasure in it, but still I believe it needs to be covered: you had it coming. This was to be expected, and you are entirely responsible for any document submitted on your behalf, including forged documents you didn't make.
I do not mean to be unnecessarily harsh, but China is actively trying to push out one very type of profile of foreigners, and this seems to be yours, you should be aware of this because this did not start yesterday.
The chances you have of getting a compassionate work visa? None, just like anywhere in the world. Working legally in China means having a higher education certificate, if you don't have one, then you will not be able to work legally. Again, this is not news anymore, it's been law since forever, and word's been spread since two years back that it was going to be strictly enforced, you had time back then to react.
From what I gather in what you say, the application of your FEC got refused on grounds you couldn't show an original certificate. At least, you are not blacklisted, therefore not pressed by emergency.
See what you can do to get some sort of qualification. In the meanwhile, you do not risk to be separated of your family since you probably qualify for spouse visa.
Good luck.
Cheers man thanks,I dont like the my situation that Im in.I wonder how many people out there are in the same situation as Iam.I will work on getting some sort of qualification as well.
Here's an idea. Does your wife work? Get the spousal visa Q2. Start a business in your wife's name. Get your name on the business as an investor. Get creative after that. If you want to stay in China, you have to think out of the box in order to make money.
ironman510:
You'll only be able to get a Q2 in HK and take it to the PSB, your wife must have at least Y60,000 or 5 years of marriage and owning a house will replace that amount to help get you a Resident permit.( We'll probably never know the results)
wife does not work as she looks after the baby and i have to work,at the moment we are on one income.
I worked for a school that was too new to legally invite me for a while. This sort of thing happens often, and in smaller cities, the school can easily make use of connections to bribe authorities. In the past, I had to face immigration police telling me they could have arrested me at any time, but didn't because of my baby. I'm not sure if it was compassion or bribes that kept me safe back then, but either way, my family visa was renewed. It may have been relevant that I have all the documents necessary to get an FEC, so I don't know if you will get the same treatment. And if all else fails, there's plenty of people here who can provide fake certificates/diplomas... Long story short: Look for positions in smaller cities. Downtown Shenzhen isn't the place for you. Too high profile, too much pressure to enforce rules, too difficult for schools to employ expats without the right documents. If you're bent on staying where you are, then it's like KimOnach said: You get what you deserved, and you had every opportunity to prevent it.
xinyuren:
Yeah, 3rd and 4th tier cities are a gold mine. Not nearly enough foreign teachers and a growing demand from new money. Be an entepreneur.
ScotsAlan:
I totally agree. Shenzhen is too high profile. Get out into the sticks where it will probably be easier for you.
Also, I have a work permit but I don't have a degree. it was not easy, but it can be done.
Keep your chin up dude 
Well, I know "a guy" who's here on a Q-2 and does okay. He's not beholden to some training school because he never steps foot into one, thus limiting his exposure to the powers that be. He didn't feel it was just that he should go home-and spend Y10,000-to get a new "z" visa for a job that pays 7000/mo. Now he works less hours, privates only, for a lot more money and is quite content(aside from this being China)
Either way, you need to figure something out. The new visa law states that after 5 years on a Z, you need to leave for 2 years. So, at some point, you're going to have to work illegally. Then again, things are very fluid here which make life as a married person frustrating.
TMaster:
"The new visa law states that after 5 years on a Z, you need to leave for 2 years"
No it doesn't. It's not even remotely suggested.
Should cases of people not able to renew their WP or RP happen - and this is yet to be proven - it would have nothing to do with the visa law, so I'm still expecting clarifications on this rumor.
wagon:
About the 10,000 rmb, I'm referring to going to your home country to get a proper visa if you don't take a job within the limited time you have to look.
wagon:
@TMaster
About the two year "rumor." My wife hires FT's at her school and just renewed her school's permit to do so. She was told that teachers that have been here for 5 consecutive years need to leave China for 2 years. She reported this to me. I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm just reporting what I've been told. I think my source is pretty solid, as well. Further, I was just getting the OP ready for what may come down the pipeline. Take it for what it's worth, I'm just trying to put as much info out there as possible for people who are interested. Good luck!
Btw, this is Qingdao.
JacobJohn:
the 10K rmb would work if trying to get a visa in HK. That turned to be very difficult anyway.
ironman510:
Wagon, my wife and I already walked into the FEC office in Louhu, Shenzhen and that 5 year law doesn't apply to Shenzhen or legally married men with children. This is a law being tested in Shandong and Sichuan province And Qingdao.
ironman510:
BTW, Wagon is telling the truth about the 5 year law in Qingdao.. it is being tested there, the FEC officer told us this in Shenzhen.. He said all governments use different laws and styles. He said married workers wouldn't have to leave after 5 years even in Qingdao. Will the 5 year law be implemented throughout the country? Who knows, but based on supply and demand I don't see that happening.
wagon:
@ironman
You say that married men won't be forced to leave, but can they work? If a school can't renew a Z, and a spouse can only receive a Q, where does that leave a family in terms of employment?
ironman510:
Hi Wagon, yes (shaking my head) I of course asked that question, I would have never left with out doing so.. They said we wouldn't be allowed to work in Gov schools, we could only work for private schools or private companies like HK kindy and EF, WallStreet and WEB or METEN and places like that. I asked why again and they said it's up to a private school or training center on who they keep and for how long but they must still meet the FEC BA degree, 2 years exp and TEFL to CELTA requirements.
Again Wagon, this law is only being "tested" in 2 provinces, no one knows if and when it be used throughout all of China and changing schools isn't hard. And they also said that China won't kick out families that have invested here (like me bought a house) and have children born here, they CAN remain on a working visa forever or until they become a POW or something like that..
ironman510:
To answer your stupid question: haha
then everyone would be working on a Q visa and you know and I know they will.. So lets not work in Qingdao and Sichuan & Shandong.. We can call it: "Q Visa Qingdao Town."
Again every Gov and system here runs their province differently. So everyone please don't let wagon freak you out, he's in Qingdao, it's a testing ground for this 5 year law..
ironman510:
BTW: the OP RobRocks has worked on a RP working visa and FEC for 12 years in the same school he left and went back to, only he wasn't as lucky as he was in the past...so wagon doesn't know that not all provinces do this. Wagon don't assume! Don't guess until our city and schools are told, they will be told if something like this would happen.
1st tier cities must stick to the rules. As pointed out there are recruiters and some public schools who will hire and will provide the authorities with a bonified make believe MBA. These are still in the poorer provinces. But be prepared for the lovely living conditions. You will also have to work for less money but the cost of living will be lower. You mentioned your child. Sounds like you will also have to decide on where the child will get educated.
I understand your situation, can't offer any 'legal' advice, but just work of the marraige visa as a few of my mates do. They are in the same situation as yourself...been teaching for a long time, are real good teachers & have commitments in China, but dont qualify for work visa according to Chinese Law !
You need a Bach ( in any subject, it could be Archeology, but you still qualify to teach English!?) or above to gain a work visa.
I think there's 2 reasons for this; 1) it makes it simple/easy for the Govt. to process i.e. just tick the box, so they don't have to deal with valid/genuine cases as yourself. Its too much work for them, they prefer to be somewhere eating & drinking at public expense..rather than than sorting out really who are the good teachers.
To my mind a good teacher isn't necessarily based on quals, but on references, positive feed back from students etc.
2) The Govt. here is sooo concerned with their world image, that they installed these stringent requirements for teacher work visas, as to follow the rest of the civilised world countries. EXCEPT, lets face it, China is not civilised, developed or sophisticated, in many ways its still a cesspool. If you really did have these quals, why would you work here (unless personal reasons) for a small salary, treated like a white monkey & put up with the retarded educ system here?? You'd be in Middle-East, Japan etc earning real good money & breathing clean air. Its a joke!!
I wish I could give you a solution to your problem, but I am far too ignorant about it. Well, don't rely on compassion but on something that would better help your dignity and a Visa to keep being with your family.
Xiunren has the best idea I would immediately go for. A family Visa it must be the easiest one to get, so just go for it and let us know what is the answer.
I am sure you are good at your job and I am also sure you love teaching. Once you'll get the Q Visa or the one that allows you to stay in China with your family try to fix the studies and go for a BA even if that is in China. I am saying that because I know education in China it's not something I would ever consider for myself nor for my family. But it worth to have it if you can't do it in your own Country.
Be courageous and don't lose heart about it. You have already some good advice in here so try them out and I hope to hear you've got the understanding and the support you need in your situation.
BTW. Congratulations for you kid.
ironman510:
And Shenzhen university is only 16,000 per semester, you could study their Chinese course and walk out with 2 benefits: Chinese abilities and a BA. Age doesn't matter. You can always go back.
A big thank you to everyone for all the advice,I have alot to think about.when I know what option I will take I will let everyone know.
Thank you everyone for all your help.and support.
Rob check your mail box. it'll help you man.. it's the best choice, I think for now forget about the Q visa.
dear friend as you says your wife is a chinese, i think you can then get Q visa that can allow you to do what ever you wanna do in this country? so take your marriage certificate and passport go to the Immigration and they will give you visa period
If you can fake your qualification go for it. Credentialism is stupid, if you know how to do your job well you should be allowed to fucking do it without being hassled.
Head to a print shop and just make up a good fake diploma to give them. It's not hard just find a picture of what a real one looks like on the internet. Cost you a few hundred RMB tops.
Good luck rob.
ironman510:
Thailand. I forget that place my friend used: (my spelling will be wrong): Kos ann road.
expatlife26:
I wouldnt think youd have to go to thailand, any local print shop can probably help you.
expatlife26:
Though you may WANT to go thailand haha. Who downvoted this?? Get off your high horse you dont need a degree to teach kindergarten. If hes good at it let the man work. If hes gotta get a fake degree to do a job that doesnt need a degree thats his business.
ironman510:
You've got my support.. Mmm, haven't been to Thailand in a while myself, maybe its time for a visit, oh yeah, my wife would want to come, never mind! I hate it when I forget important details.
You need a degree. Luckily, there is no specificatIon About it havibg to be from a "brick amd mortar" school. There are inexpensive online degrees that you can persue while on a Q vis.
The Q visa allows you to stay for a period of up to two[2] years, it however has the draw back of: your not allowed to work, Not allowed to work so how to provide for the family, pay the rent etc! I when home to the UK for a short time, it was unfortunate I had to stay a little longer, and the visa was near the expiry date, so I sent of to London for a renewal. I enclose the marriage book etc, in return I received a Q visa. Now when it needed renewal in Wuhan they insisted on only issuing only a Q visa as London had issued a Q. Q is a not work visa..
Good Luck to you
