By continuing you agree to eChinacities's Privacy Policy .
Sign up with Google
Sign up with Facebook
Q: Problems with students and supervisor
Hi all, I have a situation and maybe you will suggest something.
I’ve been working at this Web center in Wuxi for 5 months now, and those of you that know about Web English corners – I have 5 out 5 English corners which means that students like my EC very much (some teachers at our center have 1 or 2 EC because not many students like them, it's based on students feedback), and I haven’t gotten any negative vibes in classes or anywhere but 3 months ago our supervisor (who is not professional, really hard to talk to, no one likes her including tutors, etc. – you got the image), who talks to you only if there is a problem, (i.e. if you’re loved/liked she’d never say anything about it), asked me to her office and said in a very serious tone there were complaints from the students: “yes you smile but students want you to smile more”, “you use your phone sometimes in lessons”, “it’s very serious and horrible, horrible – you need to change.
If you think that any explanations would work with that woman you’d be wrong, and if you’d think that is her job to tell the students, “I understand but this is not a circus you learn English here; also yes he used the phone sometimes, but only when you were working on your exercises - would it be better for you if he starred at the ceiling?”, “just trust him , he is professional and all that doesn’t interfere with your learning” – you’d be wrong too (just trust me on this – she’s a rare case), so I listened, didn’t say much, except what I had to say about smile/phone thing but her attitude was that if something like that happens again there will be “severe circumstances”.
I have an M. S. degree, I teach English for more than 10 years, I am professional and I know 90% of students like my teaching and according to them they get a lot from me and not only in terms of English studying but also from the life perspective (wisdom). That was very upsetting to me for I give so much in my lessons.
Anyway, just recently, this “supervisor” asked me to her office again, also she brought 2(!) tutors with her (why not 1,4 bln Chinese) and said “students say you sometimes don’t explain the meaning of the word but ask someone in the class to translate it in Chinese”. According to her, this is a big crime. If she hears more complaints about me (btw I’m still doing 5 out of 5 ECs) she’ll have to let me go…
I do sometimes ask for some help from other students, it’s true, when the conversation flows. Why do I do that? Because sometimes I feel students will not understand my explanation (difficult word) or maybe they will but it’ll take 3-5 mins – if we add 5-7 unknown words (difficult ones) we’d waste 20 mins or more, so to save their time I thought it’s ok for some students that know the meaning to just say it in Chinese. Could I explain? Yes. Did I do it for me or for them? I did it for them, it’s their lesson time and money. Turned out to be against me. Now, whether all these students know that when they complain it may harm a teacher or even resulted in his resigning – I have no idea (probably not) but this is pathetic in my understanding and really has nothing to do with studying English – moreover, it adds to it, for students can concentrate on the lesson. Will I explain words from now on regardless of how much time will be wasted? Sure, I don’t care anymore.
Anyway, I feel this supervisor is a real POS and perhaps just picking on me (I don’t know) but now I feel vulnerable and even betrayed by the students that get so much and just picking on such insignificant things (not to mention that I know better how to teach English!).
I feel I wanna look for another place although I’m sure these situations are everywhere… I just hope maybe supervisors are different and I’ll be lucky. I’m not Einstein in English or whatever but I feel I am very good at it and I know most students appreciate my way of teaching but I feel I’m in a situation like “No, Mr. Einstein, you’re not good for our physics department, we need to let you go” attitude from that supervisor at the center (instead of supporting me), who by the way has no idea how to teach English.
What do you think all about it?
P.S. I know Web's system is based on complaints no matter how ridiculous they may be and they care about $$$ more than studying but it seems it works for majority of people.
P.P.S. You can not talk to students about it 'cause tutors/supervisor will never say who, and also if ask them to tell students to talk to me directly they'd say NO to it with their standard "You know Chinese are very shy"....
8 years 7 weeks ago in Teaching & Learning - China
I will give you some useful advice that not only has helped me but also helped many teachers that I trained at my old company. Here in China you will sometimes encounter people like this in positions of authority over you. They will occasionally give you advice or suggestions that you know are absolutely stupid and don't want to follow. Now this is the important part. They usually give you this advice as a way of gaining face. All you need to do is agree then forget. 9 times out of 10 they honestly don't care what you do once they have told you. Just agree with them then keep doing what you were doing. They get their face and you don't have to act out their stupid ideas, everyone wins.
nzteacher80:
Excellent comment. I do this every time. Feign a look of concern, agree, and then forget about it. Works like a charm.
royceH:
I never agree with anything that I think is stupid. What I do is try to engage with them on the issue of Chinese stupidity. My hope is that they will see that what they are proposing is nonsense, and the result of improper logic brought about by the fact they have grown up in China.
Lord_hanson:
@Royce, from my experience the teachers who did that later had problems. I would have the person of authority actively look for problems with my teachers. They would basically start a vendetta againsts the one who made them lose face by not seeing their great wisdom.
OK, I find it a bit strange to advise you, 'cause you're longer in China than me and I knew the 'answer' roughly after my first 2 years working in China.
If employer isn't happy with work you do, change your job till you won't find position, where everybody will be happy.
peter02:
There are 1200 students in this center, in America we think it's normal not to be liked for whatever reason by 1-10%. From your suggestion I see that I won't fit in anywhere 'cause it's impossible to be liked by everyone, we're human beings, not robots.
icnif77:
I've never said, you won't fit anywhere!
However, you'll certainly find out if that's a case by looking for a job, which will make everybody satisfied.
Typical situation, but looking for another place I think is too early; wait and see, maybe it'll all "go away", if not I'd talk to her.
I find one thing strange.
If you are not young guy, just after graduation or so, then you shall know one thing:
1) Either you work for the renowned institution with strict curriculum who will test their students on regular basis and if they cannot pass so simply let them fail or get rid of them (similar to Western top universities system)
2) Or you work for the institution which wants to optimize its profit by the amount of 'satisfied', paying students
It seems to me that majority, if not all, teaching English institutions in China are the later one.
It means that they are simply trying to get as many paying students as possible and they do not really care if they teach the students English or not (in some classes it's virtually impossible to teach foreign language - for instance those with 30-40 students etc.).
In such institutions then students feeling and willingness to further spend their parents (or their own for adults) money is the key to their success and their ultimate goal.
By the way it's the same with so popular schools teaching foreigners Chinese.
Almost each expat attended such school, many spent a lot of money but really few got over the real basics.
Why? Because learning the foreign language is hard. You need to practice everyday, learn new vocabulary, repeating the old one not to forget that etc. etc.
When starting everybody is very enthusiastic but with the time the enthusiasms usually disappears.
Otherwise how could you explain that more or less all educated Chinese are studying English for years but just a fraction can really use speak it?
Once you then agree that you enter the institution which uses you as a tool to earn money so you shall also understand their priorities.
If, within the given scales, you also succeed to teach the students English, so it's just a bonus on top ...
the students are real shy asj then why are there 1.5 billion people in china becsuse there shy really
Your supervisor sounds horrible.
I used to work in a shitty center like you do. The manager had no idea what she was talking about, she thought i did crappy teaching let alone other teachers didn't even know how to speak english properly, and yet she let the others teach and not me. The reason? Others brought her some free fruits and free meals and they all said she was pretty. I gave her some crazy nicknames and i wasn't quite manageable. I was perhaps too smart for my own good. The students liked me though, even those who always escaped from classes said they'd come to my class if i teach them. But anyway, once i left that center, i realized the grass was greener elsewhere. Sometimes your happiness level doesn't have much to do with the organization's fame, it's the people around you that really matters, you know, supervisors and so on.
So I suggest you to change a place. If you are experienced and are good at teaching, it shouldn't be a problem. Better leave now before they fire you. By then it'll be hard for you to explain why you are fired.
Lord_hanson:
I understand not brown nosing but why cause trouble and giver her "crazy" nicknames?
Let it run over you like water off a duck's back. Finish your contract and, if you feel like you're not happy there, go somewhere else.
I haven't heard much in the way of positivity where 'Web's' concerned.
Really, the whole thing is just a game and if you can have some small successes along the way, then you're a winner.
This sounds familiar or at least similar in some respects to something i experienced not long ago. As said above, water off a duck's back is the best advice. I'd bet my nuts she, like my POS manager, has a memory like a goldfish. Just do what you do, she'll play mahjong, have a hotpot and forget about it by monday. Chances are it was one of her friends or senior manager's kids that when questioned about why they aren't fluent after three weeks and blamed you. Roll with it dude. And remember my motto: eat shit with a spoon and a smile (but don't give a shit)...it works for me, mostly.
I will give you some useful advice that not only has helped me but also helped many teachers that I trained at my old company. Here in China you will sometimes encounter people like this in positions of authority over you. They will occasionally give you advice or suggestions that you know are absolutely stupid and don't want to follow. Now this is the important part. They usually give you this advice as a way of gaining face. All you need to do is agree then forget. 9 times out of 10 they honestly don't care what you do once they have told you. Just agree with them then keep doing what you were doing. They get their face and you don't have to act out their stupid ideas, everyone wins.
nzteacher80:
Excellent comment. I do this every time. Feign a look of concern, agree, and then forget about it. Works like a charm.
royceH:
I never agree with anything that I think is stupid. What I do is try to engage with them on the issue of Chinese stupidity. My hope is that they will see that what they are proposing is nonsense, and the result of improper logic brought about by the fact they have grown up in China.
Lord_hanson:
@Royce, from my experience the teachers who did that later had problems. I would have the person of authority actively look for problems with my teachers. They would basically start a vendetta againsts the one who made them lose face by not seeing their great wisdom.
I'm somewhat arrogant, so I'm not the sort of person to take the sort of advice that some of those above have suggested.
My response would be - "well, I'm trained to teach, and I know what I'm doing. I paid good money to get my qualifications in teaching. So, if you feel this company doesn't like my teaching, then fine - you can go ahead and replace me. I can easily get another job elsewhere. Btw - since only a couple of students are complaining, and the rest seem to like me, you'll probably find that about 90% of the students will go to where-ever I get my next job. Good luck with recruiting another 1000 students :D"
(or words to that effect. And, FTR, yes, I have stood my ground! I may not be liked, I may not get a whole lot of extra work - but I do get a hell of a reputation about giving a damn about the students!)
Englteachted:
I'm with you shining but you're talking to a brain dead frog. They will not only let you go but push you out the door and lose students in the process. I've seen it with my own eyes time and time again. Their thinking is completely irrational and warped. And you're going to put yourself through the process of finding another job with a possibly worse manager? Devil you know. And the comments are harmless
Englteachted:
They'll gladly hire an obedient kiss ass, low paid Russian with a thick accent to replace you. And truth be told, most students are not serious about learning or are too dumb to appreciate quality.
Shining_brow:
EnglT - yep! For the most part, agree 100%. But the bit that's not in agreement is there ARE some places that do actually care.
What I find is the teaching staff are usually pretty good (motivated, enthused, etc), but it's management and hierarchy that are the problem. Marketing only wants you for your face (skin colour) and passport. Management have no idea what education is actually about, and so end up towing the marketing line (ie, make sure the parents are happy).
Also, for training schools - a good teacher (educator) is actually a drawback (in their eyes). With bad teachers, the student will continue to be enrolled for months on end, paying up big bucks for minor improvement. With a good teacher, you get fast results - and thus, less months of those big bucks! (especially when the good teacher means less monthly profit as well!)
So, it's in the best interests of most schools not to have good teachers!
Well, I have worked for Web and the chain of "schools" pretty much all suck to various degrees.
The supervisors are usually ass-kissers of some Chinese management (if they are foreign) or some incompetent moron that only got the job because they are a mistress or friend of the Chinese management.
The students (while not all) can be extremely fickle and ridiculous. Sometimes they are even PROMPTED to come up with something to complain about so that Web can "keep their teachers in line". My advice would be to finish out the contract and let all the criticism just make you tougher and smarter. Chinese care a lot about the dumbest concept in the world called "Face". And some are extremely insecure and HATE it when someone is better than them at something.
So in class, when you ask one of the more seasoned students to translate a word... you don't know it but one or two students could be grumbling about how you made them lose face... because someone else did know it and they didn't. It may be smarter to ask people who don't know to check the word (by writing it down) and using a dictionary on their phone or book. This is a bit more subtle and won't make slower students feel like you made them look like idiots.
As for smiling... well... just smile more and make jokes more. Chinese love to laugh and they don't like serious teachers too much. I know it is annoying and not every teacher is a "joker" or a "clown" but it will get you through the year. Many Chinese want to be or feel like they are "friends" with their foreign teachers. Mainly to take advantage. Then you can switch to a proper school that treats their teachers with more dignity.
This is what the supervisor is TRYING to say but is too stupid. And this is what Chinese are TRYING to say but they are too vague and many times don't even know how to explain it themselves.
Englteachted:
I got to disagree , he shouldn't make those changes in his teaching style. Smiling more or catering to face, fuck them.
Robk:
I didn't say I agree with my advice... it is just how to play the game here in China. If you resist and make waves, they can make your life a horrible nightmare and in many cases get you booted from China or even worse. I know a few people that took your method (and I agree I did as well at some points) and the Chinese management went into insane mode. They are extremely vengeful people (like I am sure you know). There is no reasoning with them on their turf... you have to manipulate them while making them think you are playing their game. If you outright defy them, nothing good comes of it... many Chinese would rather jump from a building than admit they are wrong... and many do lol... I have seen Chinese risk everything to get revenge for the smallest and stupidest of things. Like someone quitting a job.
What Lord said is 100% true. From what she said, those 'complaints' were her own observations. And judging from the smiling bit, she had to reach very deep. (I'm old fashioned, I agree about the phone bit, do not use your phone in/during class unless its to look up a word)
Supervisors in China feel they have to impose their will on their staff and will pick at some things (regardless of how petty) just to show you who's the boss. They will never encourage their staff and say 'good job'.
So everything she said was just BS. Do not act on it, simply ignore it. Managers at training schools have a short life expectancy. And any rational action you take will just make matters worse. Chinese managers are extremely dumb and short sided.
nzteacher80:
Very true. Supervisors must be seen to be making decisions and giving orders otherwise they are obsolete. She has received a complaint and is passing it on to you and it has probably come across in a somewhat curt and rude manner as her English skills are probably limited and she has had a double charisma bypass like most Chinese supervisors.
Lord Hanson and Englteachted are right. Feign a look of concern and vow to change your ways. Then duly forget about it. You will not hear of it ever again.
Smiling and being happy can save you from this situation. I'm a naturally happy and contented person so smiling and being affable isn't too hard for me. I've known other teachers here in China that have a less sunny disposition and seem to come across all manner of interpersonal work disputes just for the fact that they are a bit grumpy.
Being civil and if possible friendly to your Chinese colleagues is a good way to avoid conflict.
Unless you think they're gonna fire you for it I think the people saying politely commit to improve and forget about it are right.
It's probably just company policy that if any customer complains about an employee that they have to discuss it with the employee. Just s step on the complaint receipt workflow.
Remember they are running a business. A customer says an employee isn't doing their job they don't just tell the customer to f*ck off, they have to address it in some way. And that way includes having probably an HR supervisor have a talk with the employee about what the complaint is. It's not so much a POS issue as an SOP issue.
That's true is pretty much any client facing role in any industry, the customer is forking over money and has the right to be made to feel like their input is valued. Doesn't mean the business would ever fire someone over it they just need the record of following the SOP
Shining_brow:
Umm - what country are you in? I mean, HR policies, customer service...??? My Hair!
expatlife26:
haha you may well be right that I am being naive. Web seems to be a pretty big chain though...surely they must have some kind of HR policy? Right?
Right????
In my experience the best thing to do if you want to stay is just stick it out. As someone else said managers in these venerable edutainment institutions have a short life expectancy.
Web are no different from most of the others. These "schools" have a lot in common:-
The marketing department is always more important than the teaching department... in another of these learning factories which I know of (one with a very self-important title) there might be five or six offices for sales people with one office to be shared by all the teachers. That immediately tells you where priorities lie. It certainly isn't on education.
Managers would appear to be a mixture of expats and Chinese. Expat managers are generally 20 somethings who have done a year or two teaching and suddenly find themselves promoted whereupon they lose the run of themselves and develop rapidly into little Hitlers. Most of these people would never get a position of responsibility in their home countries in a million years. They often proceed to shag all round them which leads to scandals, coverups and the whole bit. The Chinese managers are often young ladies who have started off as SAs and then miraculously get promoted because they are "friendly" with some bigger boss.
These companies often have long lists of rules and regulations which only have meaning when it suits the management. There are very definite written rules of engagement on relations between students and staff. However, these are usually ignored by both teachers and managers. The number of staff married to ex-students speaks volumes. That is OK but there doesnt seem to be any checks as regards abusers and paedophiles as there are in other countries. There is a suspicion that foreign pervs are attracted here because of the lax attitudes in China to such offences. I have never heard of a teacher being fired for such behaviour. In an organisation I worked for most of the managers would have the pick of their students. How they chatted them up was to arrange 1-1 encounters with students of their choice. It was very obvious. There was also a teacher I was aware of who arrived at a centre and was boasting after a month of having had 12 female students. According to rumour this guy had previously been fired from a girls boarding school for the same activities. This would suggest that background checks are more or less non-existent.
So its best not to take these people too seriously. Just play along and a new manager will come along and the landscape will be transformed --- for a while.
What Lord_hanson said, just pretend to be concerned then forget about it, that supervisor clearly is not an education expert, many Chinese 'supervisors' only got their position through guanxi and not because they have the necessary qualifications/knowledge to do their job.
If she keeps picking on you then just walk away, there are literally a million training centers and schools out here who are desperate for foreign teachers, why bother with the shitty ones. You are a rare commodity in China, in very high demand, you have the upper hand and without you their business is doomed, never forget this.
expatlife26:
You're right that the supervisor might well be an incompetent. I don't see why people would expect the language industry to draw China's best and brightest business minds.
That said though when I hear somebody say they're getting picked on by a supervisor I usually at least encourage a little introspection. Maybe their boss is a POS but I hate people who are just pointing the finger to avoid looking in the mirror.
A lot of times when somebody says their boss is such a horrible person if you dig deeper it'll be like "He's always on my case for being even ONE minute late!" and in that case f*ck off because since the expectation is being communicated to you it's your own fault.
To them I would say to look around at the people who don't get hassled and just do what they do. Half the time they'll reply the people who don't get hassled are just suck ups. And theres yet another red flag on that person's employability.
I dunno, China is a land of both incompetent bosses and difficult workers...westerners being no exception.
Shining_brow:
@Expat - while what you write is very true, I'd also suggest seeing just how much actual talent bosses actually display in doing their job.
In my entire history of teaching here, I've only had about 5 lessons where a supervisor actually bothered to come and look at my class for the sake of doing some sort of evaluation (and a couple of those were because I asked her to for a Master's degree requirement!)
It's easy to just sit in an office and throw shit at teachers. But, ask how many of them have even taught in a class!
There are definitely teachers I'd never hire (friends, even!), but there aren't too many managers I'd want to work for either! (although - I've been lucky, and can name one or 2).
Like others here, I follow the S.N.I.P. philosophy.
Smile
Nod
Ignore
Proceed
When I first came here I used to fight very problem directly and straight away (western style!) and that always kept the issue 'recent' and it never got solved just more stressfull. Now I try and stay invisible get the job done, smile say hello so they know i'm happy and nod and agree to any idea good or bad. Problems just go away on there own!
Another rule I have made is - do not try analyse the chinese behavior as it will end up with your mind down the rabbit hole. There is good and bad everywhere and leave it at!
peter02:
I actually was that way when I worked for a year at another place, I guess I've been too relaxed all about it and forgot how really Chinese are and their way of handling teaching business. I think I trust people too much. I've always thought it's right and good. I guess I was wrong and that what makes me really upset.
Janosik:
Not bad an attitude for "one year man" :-) Otherwise, wake up boy!
Some other points:
1 - When they say there are complaints about you from students, you can have no idea whether this is true or not. I always found that there seemed to be a glut of complaints together after months without any. Sometimes the manager would send an SA round to students after your class with a questionnaire. The questions of course would be rigged in such a way as to beg a complaint. One Pakistani manager I came across loved to do this.
2- When I mention this Pakistani guy the company used to send him from centre to centre to terrorise certain teacher. It was right up his street as he could major in pomposity and wickedness to his hearts content. He may be still cruising around the learning factories terrorising unwary teachers for all I know. There were several complaints from teachers about very questionable tactics but he survived. This guy was one of the greatest creeps I have ever encountered in my life.
3 - when they threaten you with a complaint the way to deal with it is to insist that you want to see the complaints SIGNED and DATED by the student and the manager. This is your manta. Keep repeating it and make it clear that otherwise you cant take the complaint seriously - it is not official unless they do that. While these managers are usually full of big talk they will shit themselves at this as they know they leave themselves legally liable once they sign anything. Likewise for the complaining student of course.
JohnathonSteel:
if he was pakistani you should have thrown pork at him or shown him a naked woman, then he'd have to off himself
maybe its not the students or supervisors fault look in rhe mirrior
