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Sign up with Google Sign up with FacebookQ: Pros and Cons of living in second tier cities?
Who of you live in second/ third tier cities? Did you move directly there, or did you live in BJ SH GZ etc before? Is it worth moving there if your Chinese isn't good?
A true second tier city is still super large. Think Wuhan, Chongqing Dalian so the similarities are definatly there with 1st tier cities. Having lived in both for longish periods of time I would say that they are almost the same..... just a little shittier.
Some examples
Both types of cities have western foods when you need them but
Top tier cities have real restaurants and pubs with financial backers and they hired a real chef and you eat real food and you also pay for it.
2nd tier cities have restaurants and pubs opened by a teacher , so its cheap! but its out of the way and thrown together and instead of getting restaurant quality food your getting sloppy joes from the Canadian guy who everyone always told him he was a good cook.
Top Tier cities have a complete yet evolving transportation system, you can go everywhere by subway or BRT or taxi
2nd tier cities have one subway line from the Airport to the University city but more are coming in 2018!!!! Old school brutal buses and the black taxis outnumber the real ones. Theres a good chance you will be forced to sit and spoon with a motorcycle driver at some point.
2nd tier cities do have decent English. Lots of people can...grasp some English. Many restaurants and places will have English menus and information. But its not the same. Whereas top tier cities will have the occasion Chinglish mixup that everyone laughs at. 2nd tier cities havent seemed to even try to figure out how to use a translator. Its a gong show. But to anwer your question. A person can survive with minimal chinese. Just takes a little time to find your safe places. Thats all.
All of this is for 2nd tier cities, if you have screwed this up and your thinking about going to the 6th largest city in Hebei , then discard this all because your super screwed.
dongbeiren:
Actually most of the crappy western restaurants in lower tier cities are not run by teachers. They are run by Chinese who have no idea how to make real western food and have a generic menu of pizza, pasta, hamburgers, steak and imported beer. They can overcharge for all of this as Chinese customers don't know any better and like the idea of western food to give them face. There are also some authentic places in lower tier cities but they are far outnumbered by the crappy ones.
mike695ca:
Agreed, your right the chinese one far outnumber the one by foreigners. I was just refering to the local pubs and places that foreigners will generally seek out in these cities. From me experience these have usually been cheaper foreign pubs.
First tier cities are generally more eclectic because it's in their blood, so what mike said is true even though you find exceptions both ways. But you'll have to see where in a 1st tier city are you living. Differences from a district to another can be huge. Remember that nearly everything of financial/cultural of interest happens within districts no bigger than Manhattan and that there's hardly anything outside.
The main issue might be the concentration of population. First tier cities are the first victims of peasant swarms from everywhere trying to take the civilization shortcut, while second tier cities remain relatively spared, thus better to live in.
Prices are a big issue too. Rampant inflation is 1st tier cities has brought them nearly up to the level of some western countries, while the material standards have hardly improved (reason being all the perks associated with the a 1st grade Hukou, making it a precious commodity to aforementioned peasants, an invisible mechanism that is of no concern to you obviously but still has an influence).
Obviously if you are looking for imported products, you might have a harder time in 2nd tier cities, while you can get anything from anywhere delivered within a day in BJ, SH or GZ.
Cultural and civilizational standards are roughly the same everywhere. Slighly improving in 2nd tier and slighly regressing for 1st tier.
The tiers thing is a very poor criteria to judge a city. An example : Hefei and Suzhou are both 2nd tiers, officially. I lived in both cities : the difference is huge. Suzhou is far more cosmopolite, have way urban management, green spaces and escapes, public transportation, bike lanes, choice of restaurants & bars.
If you move from Shanghai to Hefei, it feels you go 15 years backward. (Hefei's people are fine and food is great, guys, don't get mad). It feels a bit like a frontier town that grew fast, fell asleep, and is waking up again. Locals are not exactly aware of the world, they are nice but a bit rough around the edges and dress like in a countryside town and other stereotype like that.
If you move from Shanghai to Suzhou, it feels like an *upgrade* : you got more space, it's easier to move around, a bit cheaper. It feels like a city that have been around 3000 years, with a specific local cultures : locals are laid-back but smart businessmen with a taste for culture and worldliness.
Strawberry66:
When I traveled to Suzhou I feel it was not that much special.All east coast of cities have similar culture,I can find this kind of old style so called cultural Chinese town in Shanghai too.I believe Shanghai has more to offer than Suzhou does,Chinese and western.I live in a very old historical architecture where Jewish people used to live nearby in world war two.The room I live was lived by the rich ppl in old Shanghai.And the famous man in old time of China just lived upstair of mine. When I walked out of my house,I found all the modern tall organized international malls with varieties of colorful lights decorated on the trees on west nanjing road.After 15 minutes' walking till I get Jingan temple,I walked into Jing An temple and prayed(I am a buddist,but not serious one) and then joined those international bars and resturants in Jingan temple.Goodness,they have better standard than I could find in smaller cities.Or I can just takes a 10 minutes bus or dubway to Hengshan road(French concession),I walk into some French,America or Greek resturants,the placed are usually well organized and the waitress will serve me with good manners and I will get French chief,American chief to cook food.Hmmm...Yum.I love go there on weekend,there I can taste the more western liked food.And lots of places to shop for whatever price.YuYuan garden is the closet old town to the centre,there ppl can see lots of old China architecture. I like suzhou,but as it is close to Shanghai,the culture is similar the old architecture is similar,which makes it not much special and Shanghai just offers more than the Chinese culture.It has a profound history and I can get old locals tell me stories about the Mao's timd and Jewish,the culture revolution happens here and famous ppl's life in the house I am living. Only the bund area and east nanjing road are crowded in Shanghai.The bad thing about living in Shanghai is if your salary is too low.The renting fee is not a joke.And too many women to compete with for hunting the man I like.Shoot most women in Shanghai.
DrMonkey:
Yes, Jiangsu cities, and to some extent, old East Coast cities shares a lot. Shanghai is indeed special, because it was for a time handled by a coalition of foreign powers, who left quite an heritage there. As for whether Shanghai beats Suzhou, it depends on what you expect from one place. Having a lot of space for a walk with grass, trees, water is something that I care *a lot* about, so Suzhou works for me. Until the air became too polluted to run outside, it was a major point for me.
Strawberry66:
I see your point.As for more trees and more space to walk.Hengshan road and Suzhou river road works for you I guess.Clean,big street,less crowed,a lot of trees
Strawberry66:
I wanted to get Pipao there last time.But good one usually costes more than 1000rmb,very expensive.
I've lived in a third (maybe 4th) and liked it...Suihua in Heilongjiang (M city on the plates)
I'm in Zhengzhou, what tier is that? Ninth? Is there a website that actually shows these tiers?
rasklnik:
That's a regional capital...That would be a 3...usually. Been there, nice university area. Doctor/Hospital street.
Atmosphere: Second tier cities are still generally huge, but they tend to be a bit less distinctive. Places like Shanghai, Shenzhen, Beijing all have their own feel and atmosphere. Second tier places tend to be pretty generic and all feel the same (there are a few exceptions).
Foreign goods and services: You can still get them in second tier cities but not as much, and they are not normally as good.
Foreigners: There are still some (sometimes many) but not as many....
English: I find this is similar in first and second tier cities. Young people often speak at least a little English, old people generally don't.
Transport: You can often fly Internationally from second tier cities but normally only to Thailand or other places in Asia. Sometimes you can fly to Europe/America but for a good selection of flights go will have to go to a first tier city. For transport within a second tier city they rely heavily on busses. I recently lived in both Chengdu and Wuhan, and they both have new metro systems with just a few lines open so far. Many more to come in the next few years.
Really second/third tier cities is such a vague classification. Some are great (Chengdu, Xiamen) some are not (Wuhan!!!!!! (I hate it here)). If you are looking to move I suggest picking a city and then assessing the pros and cons of that one place.
RandallFlagg:
Shenzhen is impressive but i didn't find it to have a distinctive character, it's just a massive business/industry hub really. Any advice on something unique i can see there the next time i visit?
estern:
I know something unique, it's a little out of the city and takes about an hour to get there. Its called Hong Kong..........
But actually I like Shenzhen, although I've only been there a few times and don't know it that well.
I have lived in all tiers of cities from first to like fifth.
First Tier and Second Tier are pretty similar. The people in second Tier cities are generally lazier, not as organized and perhaps not quite as ambitious. The restaurants are like a 70-85% quality standard, while it is more 85-100% in top tiers (I guess going by a Chinese scale). Mixed bag of immigrants in both... but top tiers REALLY clear out during holidays like Chinese New Year.
Cost of living is noticeably higher in first Tier cities but salaries are only usually a few thousand RMB higher.
For me, there is something special living in third tiered city. It is more laid back. And there is such a thing, it feels more authentic in Chinese culture and life. Sure, you do not have the western flair of a 1st tiered city. But, is that really why you are in China. I know many expats who live in 1st tiered cities and they seldom (if ever) leave the city to explore China. They tell me that it is to difficult to just get out of the city. Two or more hours to find a train or bus out of town is tough. So, they just stay in the city.
For me, I like living in the "suburbs" or "bedroom Communities". I live an hour by train from Shanghai or Nanchang. So, if I get the urge (which is seldom) to get my western fix, I can easily do that.
RandallFlagg:
What aspects of this authentic Chinese culture appeal to you? Why is experiencing them better than living in a more international city?
Eorthisio:
Sorry but I always thought and still think that expats who are attracted to China's "culture" (not to be mistaken with Chinese culture) are a bit nut. I prefer to stay alone or stick with other expats than going local even though I speak fluent putonghua.
dongbeiren:
I liked living in a small city for a year or so but after that the novelty wore off quickly and I wanted a more comfortable existence. In a second tier city now that has a lot more. I mean it's cool to experience something new and all but after awhile it kinda just sucks to have to deal with nasty squat toilets, rude locals and a lack of quality imported foods.
nashboroguy:
If I wanted to live in a big city and have a more western life, I would never have left America. Yes, I came here ofr the job. But, once I was here, I fell in love with China, her culture and traditions, and her people. When I go to the big cities, they feel like any other big city I have been to throughout the world. But, when I live in a smaller city, I get more of a feel for what China was, what it is today and see the progress or setbacks as a smaller city progresses. Sure, I hate aquat toilets (or standing on two cinder blocks over a hole dug in the ground). I might not like the lack of heating and AC in homes. I might dislike many things. But, I get a much better experience living in rural China than I would in a big city. And, I love to travel in China. I have many expat freinds who might venture out of their big cities once or twice a year. They complain how time consuming it is just to get out of the cities (ie. subways, taxis, congestions, traffic). Me? I get to my local bus station or train station in 5 minutes, buy my ticket in aother 5 or 10 minutes, and I am on my way to another great adventure in my life.
I lived in Beijing for more than 12 years, and now have moved to Hangzhou. I think Hangzhou is considered as a 2nd Tier City, but it's not that far off Beijing.
Here's the PROS and CONS to consider if you want to try out Hangzhou.
Beijing and Hangzhou are both big cities, but Beijing's subway system is great, Hangzhou has only 2 lines. But Hangzhou's bus routes are great, you can get around easily.
Hangzhou has only (in comparison) about 9 million people so less population that Beijing. Still gets crowded in the city center, but you feel less crowded in the outskirts.
Pollution wise, Hangzhou is a winner as the air is still great here, as compared to Beijing. It's cheaper to live in Hangzhou, but probably not as alive like Beijing.
Vehicles in Hangzhou stop on pedestrian lanes, yes this is true, you have to see it to believe it, I think a first in China. And Hangzhou has bicycles you can rent out by just swiping a 'city card' (foriegners can purchase it too) scattered around the city. You can use it on place and place at another location, all electronically locked at the station, it works very well, and no fuss. Makes it a very modern city.
So more laid back, less pollution, cheaper, that's what I think. Cheers!
first, I want to know what tier my city is .. Zhanjiang, Guangdong
I have not been anywhere else, but Guangdong.
Guangzhou, Shenzhen, Zhuhai, Macau, Hong Kong.
I have visited Zhangjiajie and Guilin/Yanshuo..Sanya is overpriced and not much fun., just airports in Beijing and Shanhai
from what I read on here and my minimal experience... I live in the cleanest, best damned place in China.
I do not get ogled, just another guy. once in a while the kids (teenagers) want to talk, that's fine.
My 2+ years here I have seen unbelievable progress in the traffic and in the availability of imported goods. (food) New giant stores that compare to those in Guangzhou. Even the streets are kept "clean" ...not just the main roads, everywhere... I have an e-bike and do go through the narrow back streets. It is a pretty clean town?/city. Air pollution is not nearly as bad as much of the rest of China. I am mad right now, the AQI is up.
I frequent the Hot Springs (10 minutes from home) and the gym, over-priced but you do have to pay for these "luxury" items. The beach is 10 minutes and well kept. the fairgrounds is great... BBQ in the forest,,, delicious.
my 150sq.m apartment is 2700 .. 5 years old... 3 bdrm/2 bthrm... very nice, now that I have paid to fix most of the electrical and plumbing .. the local fix it guys know me well. landlord is a bitch, but when I leave, I have a devious plot.
WELCOME TO CHINA .... I think I lucked out!!!
BHGAL:
I would never live in New York or Los Angeles, Chicago, Boston or Miami.... much prefer Boise Idaho or Billings Montana, Omaha Nebraska. and even then, not in the little city,,,,outskirts of it
guess I am a wannabe HILLBILLYI lived 2 years in Beijing....a pigsty and a hazard for humans. In one of my vacation i visited my wife family-family in a not so far city, Zhangjiakou ( about 200 km from Beijing)
It's like haven comparing with Beijing, and i think Zhangjiakou is a tier 3 city.
Anyway, i would choose Zhankjiakou at any time of night day !