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Posts: 5732

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Q: Is the ship sinking or just short term panic?

theepochtimes.com/n3/800590-chinese-officials-passports-confiscated/

 

the chinese threaten 1000 naked officials (alone in china and immigrated their entire family already) with demotion if the family does not return and only 200 agree. the party might actually be better off with new blood but hey loyalty is hard to find at the end of a gun.

the government stole the passport id system of america when america stupidly out sourced the printing to thailand during the clinton years, so im sure the government officials at the passport office will make a bundle selling blackmarket passports to the officials that have had theirs confiscated.

 

they found a policeman in my city here that had 9 chinese national id cards, passports are no problem.

 

self interests, self preservation, selfishness, greedy, all good qualities for an official i suppose, but is something else going on here, what do these officials know, that joe q public does not know. inquiring minds want to know, oh i forgot, TIC.

9 years 37 weeks ago in  General  - China

 
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Posts: 1439

Shifu

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At that point, I simply don't care anymore whether China is successful in threatening its own officials into this or that. They could have Martian passports for all I care. Nothing in PRC is to be trusted anyway.

Now the only thing I would like is that my own country stops providing immigration opportunities for those useless people and their families, and you don't need a genuine passport for that, distinguishing your average PRC freeloader from a decent person just takes a waiting line.

Hulk:

There's no way the U.S. is going to stop letting in corrupt officials.


1. Corrupt officials sell out their country to the CIA in exchange for citizenship/residency.

2. Corrupt officials bring a lot of money to the U.S. economy.

 

Governments will do anything for money, as evidenced by the FBI and the DEA helping the Mexican drug cartels to launder over $500 billion per year. If you're small time, they'll screw you over. If you're big enough to command respect, almost any government will do anything for you.

9 years 36 weeks ago
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Robk:

Except the Chinese government... which pissed off Google and Microsoft. 

 

 

9 years 36 weeks ago
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9 years 36 weeks ago
 
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Since Xi is the head, some heads are falling. It's not quite clear where the fight against corruption ends and where the turf war starts. Times and again, you hear that people are angry in China and that if nothing is done to curb corruption, it's bad for the harmony, "we are going to loose the Mandate of Heaven", this kind of talk Tongue

I think the current corruption issues are systemic : there are no natural counter-powers like fairly free medias, no separation of judicial, executive and legislative power, no popular representation, etc. To me, it's a wack-a-mole game. Okay, those naked officials just leave the ship. They are replaced by younger officials. Those officials will see the opportunities to enrich themselves, in a society that value money and appearances. How many of them are going to resist the temptation, when journalist can be bought so easily and when the justice system is completely at the service of the political power ?

Other countries can help by being more careful about their investment visas. For instance, instead of accepting pure real-estate purchase as investment worth a visa, it can be "employ X people for Y years, and show you have the experience & education for that business". Also, by being more curious about where all that invested money come from. Slamming the door at everybody is no good.

RiriRiri:

I see the contrast in the point you make, and I would gladly agree with you, but as is, slamming the door is just the most convenient way of avoiding trouble as long as China is concerned. Let's be honest, if you set up rules, you'll have to do it right because your country is based on the rule of fair laws, and when trying to assess the validity of an investor's contribution, you can only go as far as "employ X people for Y years" when X and Y are reasonable numbers.

Problem with that is that it's no problem for Chinese, they'll employ X people for Y year and then ditch the whole. Then the rest is on your taxes. Cause that's what they do. Yes, maybe there are exceptions. Well, too bad for them.

 

Sure, it's possible to find solutions to satisfy everyone. Problem is, I don't have the patience for that nor would I agree that the legislators of my country spend time on finding any.

9 years 36 weeks ago
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DrMonkey:

There are Chinese people willing to work honestly, if they are given a fair chance in a fair environment. I know such people, they try to leave China because they are just desperate how things work here, despite all their good will.

If an immigrant have to employ legally X people for Y years, he will have to follow the rules and deal with people whom civil rights are enforced, spend money... not just handing over cash and not giving a shit about anything like back where he/she comes from. It can be a deterrent to the worst offenders. Canada just did that, New-Zealand set such rules a few months ago. I'm curious to see what influence it will have.

On a personal view point. I've migrant ancestors, back in the 1930's, who took the chance of an open door to work really hard and honestly. They escaped misery, they were farmers, their grand-grand-sons are doctors, scientists, engineers with some education. Also, much more egoistical point of view, how I'm supposed to live outside of China with my wife if every damn place is slamming the door ^^

9 years 36 weeks ago
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RiriRiri:

I wrote a long answer and then it disappeared into oblivion, sorry maybe I'll find the courage again later

9 years 36 weeks ago
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9 years 36 weeks ago
 
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Governor

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I'm still not convinced that the anti-corruption drive is just a sham. Ever new totalitarian leader has to assert his position.

 

As for the whole emigration and investments. I've always been a proponent for as open borders as possible, however most of the wealthy Chinese immigrants are either corrupt officials or straight up lying or cheating to get our of China. These kind of people shouldn't be accepted no matter how much dirty money they bring with them.

expatlife26:

it's probably a little of both.

 

The people getting the boot probably ARE corrupt...it's more a question of whether the people replacing them aren't just the same thing.

 

my theory on China law enforcement in general is top to bottom they want everyone to be a little bit of a criminal. Then nobody has a truly airtight case to protect themselves if someone wants them out.

 

Look at immigration laws, they're change constantly and are subject to pretty arbitrary enforcement. I've heard the same thing from locals regarding working/living in places other than their Hukou. I can't speak on it directly but I imagine customs and tax bureaus are probably the same way.

 

It's not like back home where disobeying the law is seen as like a moral failing...for the most part nobody cares and nothing will happen to you...but you better keep the people above you happy cause they'll have that on you if they need it.

9 years 36 weeks ago
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9 years 36 weeks ago
 
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I must say I'm actually really impressed with Xi's anti-corruption crackdown. The west isn't too keen on it since many officials sell information to the CIA, and personally allow the implantation of NSA backdoors.

 

Looks like the CIA's free ride will be over soon. Sucks for my country, but rocks for China. Corruption is something that has got to be totally stamped out in China. I think we all want to see that happen.

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9 years 36 weeks ago
 
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I can't seem to add comments at the moment.

 

Anyway, I think President Xi is doing a good job. He seems determined to tackle this whole corruption thing.

 

And I also agree with what other have said above. Western countries should be asking questions about where the money comes from before allowing it to be banked or invested in their countries.

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9 years 36 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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All these comments about Xi doing a good job are in my opinion half truths. He is working at removing corruption but not universally. He is only targeting political rivals and consolidating his power in the process. He imprisons any citizens who try to tackle corrupt officials themselves. Such as the guys who tried to campaign for transparancy of officials assests. He is also clamping down on individual freedoms, increasing censorship too. He is moving the country backwards.

DrMonkey:

Yeah, Xi and crew are no white knights. Two lawyers asking for ... applying the law as it is written in the Chinese constitution, better access to education, wealth disclosure ... have been sent sentenced to jail under the "troubling the harmony of public life" category. Xu Zhiyong is the name I got in mind, forgot the name of the second one.

9 years 36 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

Not entirely too, they're also clamping down a little on the financial sector as well. TONS of mutual fund managers (among others) have been indicted lately for fraud/corrupt practices. 

 

They are trying to bring a little credibility and investor confidence!

9 years 36 weeks ago
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Lord_hanson:

Yes the disturbing harmony charge is worrying. Basically it is a blanket charge for anyone who publicly questions the party. I am suprised the red guard aren't being returned. I guess he has quite a few ywars left to bring China back to the good old Mao days.

9 years 36 weeks ago
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The corruption crackdown thing is nothing other than a diversion.  It's purpose is to continue to keep the people down, and it's working very well.  The people are down, the corruption goes on, money is accumulated, and so say all of us.

Of course it's not the only diversion.  The continued open loathing of Japan is the other noteworthy diversion (where are CCTV up to now with their 45  war criminals exposed in 45 days series at the moment?.....around 12, I think), along with the the whole of the Western Pacific is ours one.  That one's a beauty.

People kept down and corruption continues as a way of life.

Rule of Law?  Hahahahahahahaha......

The Chinese way of life is rotten to the core.  The people are living a nightmare, one they don't recognise, and can't escape from even if they do.  Unless they invest in some of that corruption stuff.  

Then they can get the hell out of here.

 

ScotsAlan:

It's a good old fashioned purge.

 

Nothing to do with keeping the people down.

 

It's about keeping the money in the country where it can be used to the best effect. To help the people and not enrich the corrupt.

9 years 36 weeks ago
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royceH:

Yeah, I don't disagree there's a purge in play.  It begun 5 minutes after the change.  Wonder how hard Mr Bo is doing it these days......

But as long as the people think the govt is doing something about...anything, they'll be less inclined to start waving flags and marching up the street.

The so called crackdown on corruption is achieving that purpose.

 

9 years 36 weeks ago
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9 years 36 weeks ago
 
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Maybe these officials feel uncomfortable because they are not secure. The anti-corruption movement is a purging. 

 

Basically, anyone that was against the current Chairman, before he was the chairman is targeted. This happens every time a new leader is positioned... it is called "posturing up"... even that idiot Kim did it with his own family. 

 

Anyone that preferred his brother... got executed. It makes a statement while demanding respect. Just the same old games 

ambivalentmace:

60 unofficial party suicides this year would make you worry about whether your name is on the list, and a passport (get out jail free card) would make you feel better in the game of chinese monopoly i suppose. 

9 years 36 weeks ago
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yesterday a friend of mine said:

'a storm is coming' and that he would act like a 'couch potato'

ordinary people have the feeling something is going to happen

Scandinavian:

my mother in law will sometimes say. "Tomorrow it will rain a lot" and then sure, the next day she will carry an umbrella, but no rain. She often goes to the market without an umbrella thus I have to go pick her up so she doesn't get soaked. 

Normal Chinese people are so out o tune with the world. 

 

By the way, a typhoon will hit southern China one of the next days !

9 years 36 weeks ago
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sorrel:

i don't think he was talking about the weather 

9 years 36 weeks ago
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I had a brief moment of hope when I read this

 

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2014-07/15/content_17778743.htm

 

If you can break the cycle of raising kids to see they can bribe their way through life, then maybe you could start on building a society where corruption is seen as wrong. Then I remembered that this is not going to be enforced, so no effect. 

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Doesn't Xi keep a large amount of money overseas? 

ScotsAlan:

Bloomberg done a story but there was no evidence.

 

Google Bloomberg..... ooppps... double no no.

9 years 36 weeks ago
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DrMonkey:

He keeps his daughter abroad, she studies in USA, not sure if it's Harvard or an other Top Heavy.

9 years 36 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

Wiki says Harvard. Son or daughter.. Not sure.

 

But cleverness is genetic. Clever people are always the bosses. Their children are also clever.... so they get the scholarships. Because the bosses are too poor to poor.

 

She probably goes to frat parties with Bo's son.

 

Hu's mum is safe. "Ping An" in Chinese I think.

 

Or is it all politics?  Information and misinformation. The whole concept of politics is well defined after all. It's all all about getting one over on your nemesis. Getting your idea across and accepted.  Getting the job you want.

 

It's the same the world over. Apparently the poorest man in the world is the Pope.

 

Obama was elected. But he is the most hated man in the country.

 

The first Bush promoted the second Bush. What an amazing fuck up that was.

 

Blair became a devout Catholic after signing up for the most pointless war in modern times.

 

The whole world is corrupt.

 

But you know, I really believe President Xi will make a difference.  I think he is the Man China needs at this moment. he is the man that knows the plan.

9 years 36 weeks ago
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