Well to be honest that's a pretty reasonable explanation. People that are poor, struggling, maybe no job don't have as good manners as those that are better educated and are not involved in the daily struggle of survival.

The same problem exists in our countries really. Poorly educated,. living in poverty, struggling to survive, these people have different outlook on life and certainly a different set of rules for behavior.

While I can sympathize with the plight of such people and count my blessings it's not necessarily an excuse for their behavior, or, as you say, their manners. It simply explains why they might be a bit different.

Tourists? We have the ugly American, the loud mouthed Aussie, the camera crazy Japanese and the rude Russians so Chinese tourists are joining an elite bunch from other countries. Many people from many different countries behave in strange ways when confronted with different cultures when they travel. Some respond in an orderly way, others are rude and poorly behaved - cringe worthy we call it.

Why do we comment about Chinese manners on this forum? Because we can and there is really not a lot of other places to do it. Also we see and experience this behavior on a regular basis. We find it unusual and worth commenting on. I think generally, most of us like being here, most of us have many Chinese friends and most of us don't mind the company of Chinese when out eating or drinking or in the work place.

Life would be pretty boring if everybody in every country was the same. Why the heck would you travel anywhere then?

Sorry if this is a poor attempt to explain but it's a more complex issue that could afford a bigger space. I am sure other forum contributors will add their spin to what you have tried to explain. Considering your struggle with the language you did it ok. Well at least I understood (I think) what you were trying to say.

Pretty much spot on. It is basic Maslow stuff. As people satisfy their lower level needs, self esteem improves. Higher self esteem means less anti-social behaviour.

The problem is, the CCP will never let the majority of the population satisfy their basic needs. That would also lead to freedom of thought.

I find Chinese culture or manners, whatever you want to call it, when taken countrywide is almost schizophrenic. My Chinese wife agrees with me. I find that Chinese people generally fall into two groups, those who have very little education, poor manners and do not give a thought to anyone else bar themselves, and those who carry on their lives in a way that most foreigners here accept as normal. There seems to be very little in the middle, hence the split personality of the society as a whole. This sounds as though I am trying to claim that foreigners are better than Chinese, I am not. It is simply that what we accept as normal we recognize in others and are quick to see that which falls outside of our normal. I have been told many times that this is Chinese culture, however I do have to ask if spitting, pissing and shitting in the street; spitting food onto the tables in restaurants; lie and cheating everyone just to get one up on them; corruption at every level; complete disregard for any rules when it suits; poor medical knowledge of some doctors and poor education is really what the Chinese want to be proud of after 5,000 years.

While I can find my self agreeing to some degree the idea of poor manners resulting from the lack of basics such as food, shelter etcetera I am not entirely sure that this is the whole answer. I know many Chinese who are poor but are equally critical of bad behavior in their fellow citizens as well as seeing many examples of richer people  who behave worse than the poorest peasant. I believe the root problem is the lack of education in many important areas. People are not taught that the world does not revolve around them, that others are of equal importance to themselves. Margaret Thatcher once said there is no such thing as society, well here we see the ultimate expression of that idea. It is not a view I hold with, society for better or worse, is the result of the individuals viewpoint of themselves. This can be everything from blissful to barbaric, most groups of people fall into behaviour patterns somewhere in between these two extremes. We have a society here that has been poorly educated, if at all, in the past although I do believe this is getting better slowly combined with a sense of I am the only person who matters to me. Unless  a real sense of responsibility and caring for ones fellow countrymen is instilled at an early age in everyone things will not change. I do agree with the original OP about some of the younger generation being better, maybe these are the first steps in the right direction.

My great grand parents and my grand parents were poor. Not that long ago many more people were poor than today, but they still had manners.

Manners don't cost a thing, it doesn't cost a penny to say thank you, excuse me or pardon me.  I do appreciate this post though, and agree with the basic psychology you briefly mentioned, where, when a person lacks basic education or necessities such as food,  their id is their strongest motivator rather than their ego or superego, which we develop through education.  We live in a world with many other people however, and one should be mindful of that.

That's a good reminder django - thank you.  While I'm aware of these things it's easy to forget when you're having a bad day.  A lot of people, myself included, vent frustration by trying to find other people that understand their situation and talking (ranting?) about it.  And since we often don't have much contact with people that have similar backgrounds that leaves us with few options but to come somewhere like here.  I'll tell you what, I'll try not to take the bad manners I encounter personally if you don't take the angry post/comments on this site too personally, deal?  Although sometimes of course you'll still come across something that crosses the line and it'll annoy you - just as I'm still gonna have what people here call Bad China Days.  But try not to take it to heart.

Really? Then what about the Chinese living overseas?

I always appreciate well thought out comments from locals.  While I'm only in partial agreement with you,  I'm wholeheartedly with you regarding the need to understand the reason behind behavior.  The destruction of Chinese culture has had remarkable affects on all facets of society.  It is not unreasonable to assume that much of what we see today in China has roots in the CR.

 I do not agree with you in regards to the relationship between poverty and manners.  There is no data to back that up.  Poor people can have good manners while at the same time, some rich can be the most uncouth.  Was not China a Confucianism society?  Every society has historically had some sort of spiritual set of principles that guided them in morals and manners.  It seems China has largely abandoned this part of their culture.  It will be interesting to see how China's society develops in the next 5 years.

How do you explain the Chinese man that killed a child and beat up a woman over a parking space.? He had a car, money but no parking space?