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Posts: 4421

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Q: TEFL, TESOL & CELTA a must IF?

I heard a rumor. Let's explore it. I heard you if you work in the private sector in China like private international schools, EF, Wallstreet, Meten and or Kindergartens or training centers that your years of experience working there won't count as the "2 years of experience" that are required for changing jobs and or waive the need for a teaching certificate, Is that true?

 

So even if we have worked for 10 years in one company we'd still need our TEFL, TESOL or CELTA . That's means I gotta get it authenticated in England. Never been there , but it comes from there. Anyone heard of this? It might be related to the new visa policy.

 

These are one of those "Oh God" surprises you find a long the way. But for now its just a rumor.

6 years 44 weeks ago in  Visa & Legalities - China

 
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I'd say, '2-years of working experience' is there to prevent freshly grads take the teaching position in China.

I didn't know if your work 2-years in the field you don't need TEFL cert. I
have both since my first job and I understood 'you need both!' to get WP.

 

So, I guess Gov. won't discount all your experience in private sector. It would be stupid, anyhow.

They might ask you to get TEFL cert. beside all working experience.

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6 years 44 weeks ago
 
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I'd say, '2-years of working experience' is there to prevent freshly grads take the teaching position in China.

I didn't know if your work 2-years in the field you don't need TEFL cert. I
have both since my first job and I understood 'you need both!' to get WP.

 

So, I guess Gov. won't discount all your experience in private sector. It would be stupid, anyhow.

They might ask you to get TEFL cert. beside all working experience.

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6 years 44 weeks ago
 
Posts: 1059

Shifu

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ironman can you get up to date info on getting a green card if you have been married for 5 years.

 

I have 17 years teaching in China and 14  years with the same kindergarten and a certificate in childcare and it means nothing here.

icnif77:

Did you look at Yahoo-gle? Tons of web links with 'requirements for green card in China' in search.

 

http://www.china.org.cn/english/LivinginChina/184128.htm

 

http://www.ebeijing.gov.cn/feature_2/Sino_ltaly_culture_year/Info/Beijing/t921029.htm

6 years 44 weeks ago
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6 years 44 weeks ago
 
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I would just assume everyone considers it a given that your work experience at say...EF wouldn't count.
This is simply because you need paperwork to prove you worked ___years there...
and we all know these companies are too petty 90% of the time to give you the paperwork, even if you were the best teacher they had..

icnif77:

Paperwork? I have Recommendation letter out of EF attached to CV where it states 'start & end of work at EF' and more with big Chinese red stamp on the bottom

Too petty? It's Chinese law requirement and I have RL of every school I worked in China matched with SAFEA's records on issuing FEC to moi.

6 years 44 weeks ago
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Hotwater:

I've worked multiple Engineering jobs over the years and I've got a big fat NOTHING to prove I worked at any of them......not even references.

6 years 44 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Because you didn't ask for it! It's a Law requirement, but most likely you could prove your working history with FEC unless you 'moonlight'.

SAFEA holds records on FEC issuing, so 'enter .... '

At almost every School when I asked for RL, rep. asked me to show him/her previous one and then 'copy-it' with different School's name and dates. Chinese don't know much about Rec. letter!

This year, I got special Rec. letter form which must be filled by School. All previous RLs look like 'love letters' in Chinese.

Rec. letter is also requirement this (and last) year at RP transfer, beside FEC cancel cert. and Release letter.

I am big poster today ...out of my bed with flu ....

6 years 44 weeks ago
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Hotwater:

I've had 3 different jobs in China Icnif and the only requirement by law for the company is to give a release letter and the work permit cancellation receipt. I also manage a small company now and the three Chinese employees who have resigned/left have never asked for a recommendation letter. Do you have a link for this part of the law?

 

All my previous jobs have been in the UK. There is no requirement there to give a recommendation letter on leaving though by law they do have to give future employers reference letters IF requested. 

6 years 44 weeks ago
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icnif77:

No, I don't have link, but ...last year at Resignation in Kaifeng and RP transfer to the new School in Giuzhou, I had to give Kaifeng's Rec. letter to Guizhou.

Now, Kaifeng didn't want to give Rec. letter for some reason. I got other two papers and full pay for the whole month sitting in my room, but not Rec. letter.

Then, Guizhou School's owner convinced Kaifeng to give Rec. letter because as she said 'SAFEA asked for it!'. She's mentally ill/ lying scum, so who knows.

Last Contract I got from Anyang two weeks ago, rep. told me he has Rec. letter form and I must give to the rep. in present School. 

Anyang rep. told me, he'll need 3 docs. for RP transfer: 1. FEC Cancel cert.; 2. Rec. Letter form filled, signed&stamped; 3. Release letter., so I 'guessed' it must be Law requirement.

 

I'll look over the Internet if I can dig-up somewhere about Rec. letter.

Nowhere anything about 'Rec. letter as requirement for RP transfer/changing an employer'.

I heard twice (last year and few weeks ago) I must have Rec. letter beside FEC cancel cert. and Release letter for RP transfer.

I'll ask FEB about it next time I call them.

6 years 44 weeks ago
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Hotwater:

Thanks for the feedback Icnif

6 years 44 weeks ago
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Zethe:

Yes ICNIF, they are too petty.
Only if you think it's worth having their poo-stain of a company name on your resume would you contact SAFEA. Even when you do, you have to go through the whole barrage of childish arguments, false accusations, and fingerpointing to get the paperwork necessary for transferring jobs.
Much like I did with my last boss.

6 years 44 weeks ago
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icnif77:

I have it because I work in China! That's western thing and in China: 'Can we have an interview?' me: 'yes, certainly!' and then voice doesn't come through on Skype ....

 

They want to hear my English draft 'cause I am NNES. Can't they just read Rec. letters I have on my CV? Like some 7 Schools wrote I am suitable or good or whatever, but ....

 

How that isn't enough for the new School is beyond me.

6 years 43 weeks ago
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6 years 44 weeks ago
 
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My aggravation is simply not knowing what the f..k the government requires or doesn't require. I have asked people until I am blue in the face. I have heard, you need the TEFL, no you do not if you have been here for over two years. Same with the Criminal background check. I have heard it must come from your country and also if you have been in China for years you can get a Chinese one ( got mine today, pretty easy process actually).

 

Same with this goddamned authentication crap. I have had two potential employers tell me I can do it at my embassy in Shanghai. They again do not know what they are talking about. Called the American embassy today. They do not provide this service. So again, we have people talking out of their ass who do not know the score. No one seems to. I mean, this crap has been going on since April 1, almost two months.

 

NOW, the government bureau I found which can authenticate my diploma in Hangzhou tells me that my paperwork may not come back until the end of June which is too late to complete the process. Turned copies of my diploma (have the originals, praise the Lord) on May 8th and was told in English "one month", visited there today for an update and told this, however, they do not have a clue if and when the paperwork will come.

 

I have never understood the Chinese mentality and it is absolutely maddening. Maddening is the best word for this. Not to mention if I can't flip this visa, I have to return to the USA, and do all the bullshit there to come back, and for the fun part, the Chinese embassy in Chicago probably will not accept my documents because they and I do not come from the certain part of the country they will serve. If it was from Kansas, fine. I am from Tennessee so my shit would have to go to Washington DC. Not to mention I went to college in Mississippi which necessitates going to the embassy in Houston, a huge city I have never been in. Chicago is much more convenient, but who the hell knows.

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6 years 44 weeks ago
 
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The recommendation letter is a given, your former school usually gives you it. But the rumor is that the letter is useless unless you came from working at a government school. Any letter of reference from a private school would be useless, thus forcing our hand, money & time to get out TEFL TESOL or CELTA authenticated from where ever it came from. Or have to do a TEFL again in China from the course that travels around China.

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6 years 44 weeks ago
 
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I can confirm this is true. I am in the process of having to get my degree, TELSO and DBS (formerly CRB) docs notarised, legalised by the FCO and then authenticated by the Chinese Embassy in the UK. The cost and time taken is ridiculous. Unless they start to make the system more transparent and employers start to bear the costs, more and more prospective teachers will be put off coming to China (i mean come on, it must reek of a scam to a new hire) or encouraged to go down the illegal route. Totally agree with ironman about the rec letter being useless. It's the same with previous CRB checks, in that if my last crb check was 3 years ago and since then I've been in China for the last 3 years how on earth could I have possibly committed any crimes in the UK. They used the whole roll of red tape here and then some when they came up these new rules.

ironman510:

Which part of China are you in? I went to FEC office today. I've been working legally for 9 years, they only wanted my cbr from Shenzhen China

6 years 44 weeks ago
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davidccollis:

I'm in Shanghai. According to the policy (this was translated by my boss in Chinese), a new hire has to provide a CRB, teaching cert and your highest degree which needs to be notarised, legalised, and then authenticated by a Chinese embassy. Seems like the usual deal in China then. New visa policy the interpretation and implementation of which completely varies depending on which PSB you speak too, who your employer is affiliated with and how much guanxi they have. Sigh

6 years 44 weeks ago
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6 years 44 weeks ago
 
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You make some good points but crimes could have been committed before coming to China

davidccollis:

I understand why they would want to see them initially. What I'm not clear on is why would they need another check when three years ago I already gave them one. I've pretty much been in China the last 3 years. Just how many crimes could I have committed in the UK during my 3 year tenure in China? angry

6 years 44 weeks ago
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6 years 44 weeks ago
 
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I'm taking steps to change jobs in Shenzhen. But I'm moving the government school sector because I was given an offer I couldn't refuse. The education government has their own agents and they take care of the visa's, they came to the school I'd be working for and told me this:

1. I don't need my TESOL because my years in China in the private sector do count. He said trust him as he's handled over 400 teachers.

2. My security background check can come from China Because I've only been here.

3. What they need: A. Security Check ~ B.Notarized the security check.~C. Health Check~D. Release letter ~ E. Cancelation of the Expert certificate and ~ F. Recommendation Letter.

4. They said I have to start with a 6 month working permit until the FEC office finishes the final touches with the new policy. I asked "Do I need to get new documents or start over again "? They said it's just a renewal like I've been doing for years, so that's probably when I become a B class ID holder.

Just like echina member Scots, I'll update everyone how the whole deal goes down from A~to~Z.

ironman510:

So maybe for everyone it's difficult & different with the way the FEC office, PSB & the school handles us. New teachers will surely have the worst of this new policy.

6 years 44 weeks ago
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icnif77:

So, it is Recommendation letter as requirement at RP transfer. I heard it twice: once at transfer last year and few weeks ago again.

6 years 44 weeks ago
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ironman510:

The agent guy told me the company needs to give me that recommendation letter because he'll need it too. Even Chinese need this too. So I hope I can get my hr to make a nice one for me.

6 years 44 weeks ago
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ironman510:

I wanna sum up our visa life in China with a Henry Ford quote: There are no big problems, just a lot of little problems.

6 years 44 weeks ago
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icnif77:

"It's fokin' mess!" my quote!

Ask for the Rec. letter form. I have it: one page standard form with Qs in Chinese as personal FT data and bottom half is larger empty space, I guess to write School's impressions on FT.

6 years 44 weeks ago
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6 years 44 weeks ago
 
Posts: 827

Shifu

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I am looking forward to see what happens over the next 6 months regarding FTs and the new process. I don't think we can blame the schools nor the PSB for not knowing what is going on. Clearly the people who made up this new process didn't really know what was going to happen either.

ironman510:

Actually the PSB is the same as it's always been. Its the FEC office, that's where the fun is and all these changes. It's clear that almost every city in China are doing things different. Some have started the policy and ABC cards and some have not.

6 years 43 weeks ago
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Answer of the DayMORE >>
A:  "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "S
A: "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "Shenzhen agent can connect you with an employer, who's authorized to hire waigouren ... and can sponsor Z visa." It's not like every 10th person you meet in Shenzhen's hood can sponsor work visa ...  The only way to change from student to labourer visa is just a regular way by: 1. Finding an employer, who'll apply for an Invitation letter; 2. Exit China and apply for Z visa in your home country's Chinese embassy; 3. Enter China in 30-days after Z visa was stamped into your travelling instrument ...As I am aware, you won't be able to switch to Working permit by remaining in China....,so make ready for a return to your home .... -- icnif77