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Posts: 277

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Q: Is there a foreign teachers union of any kind in China? If not, why doesn't someone get on it?

11 years 38 weeks ago in  Teaching & Learning - China

 
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Posts: 1547

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I'll admit, I lol'd 

Swirl:

Maybe you might want to lookie here...The China Foreign Teachers Union. I don't know much about them but there is plenty to read here...

 

http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/events/activities/cftu-sponsors-cross-cultural-training-seminar-for-new-china-foreign-expat-teachers/

http://www.thebeijinger.com/events/2014/may/cftu-cross-cultural-training-seminar-new-expat-foreign-teachers-free

 

http://www.bjstuff.com/profiles/blogs/cftu-advises-how-to-break-your-contract-resign-from-a-bad-or

 

http://www.chinaforeignteachersunion.org/2012/12/china-foreign-teachers-union-posts-esl.html

 

http://www.esl-jobs-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6828

 

http://eslwatch.info/china-2/news-98/603-china-newsflash/12418-do-you-know-your-employee-rights-as-a-china-foreign-esl,-tefl,-or-ap-teacher.html

 

http://www.bjstuff.com/profiles/blogs/cftu-dyi-guide-how-to-check-out-a-china-foreign-teacher-job-1

http://www.expat-blog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=437213

 

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/china-employment-contracts-for-expats-is-a-sneaky-shell-game-scam-watch-out-foreign-teachers

 

http://www.esl-jobs-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6322

 

http://www.bjstuff.com/forum/topics/15-free-anti-scam-weapons-for-expat-china-foreign-teachers-from

 

http://www.bjstuff.com/profiles/blogs/your-help-needed-to-update-the-2015-cftu-china-esl-tefl-school

http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/events/activities/china-foreign-teachers-union-freebie-fun-day/

 

http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/events/cftu-webinar-china-contracts-and-labor-law-for-foreign-teachers-expat-employees/

 

http://www.eslbase.com/forum/viewtopic/t-3178

 

http://eslwatch.info/forum/china/93-what-is-the-best-free-way-to-find-decent-and-safe-jobs-in-china-as-a-foreign-teacher.html

http://www.thebeijinger.com/forum/2014/02/07/free-legal-guide-english-china-expat-foreign-teachers

 

http://www.chinaforeignteachersunion.com/2015/01/free-cftu-guidebook-china-labor.html   

8 years 12 weeks ago
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11 years 38 weeks ago
 
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Go ahead Gaohao! And let us know how  you fared!

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11 years 38 weeks ago
 
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Because we have no rights...? Even if we were Chinese citizens, it's not like you can go protest this kind of thing in the streets.

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11 years 38 weeks ago
 
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are there any unions in China?

MapleLeafMark:

Yes - it is called China Foreign Teachers Union and their email is ChinaForeignTeachersUnion@gmail.com. It has been around since 2009 or 2010 but only has about 300 members. I went one of their meetings last May.  Good people involved but they lack guanxi.

11 years 27 weeks ago
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11 years 38 weeks ago
 
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Makes sense to me, I mean i've had schools try to con me and one that even succeeded. If there was a union, ie. a body of individuals backing you up and supporting you, capable of helping or hurting the reputation of a school, and capable of keeping records of which schools have bad reputations for cheating their staff and need be avoided when seeking work, I for one would want to be a member of it.

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11 years 38 weeks ago
 
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OP, seriously, are you familiar with the history and current legal climate around unions in China?

11 years 11 weeks ago
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Tarzan:

Actually, there is a expat teachers union here in China with some 6,800 members since 2010. It is call the China Foreign Teachers Union (or CFTU for short) and here is a couple of links that talk about them.  I am not a member but I went to some of their monthly meetings last year and subscribe to their newsletter and "scam alerts".  They have a pretty extensive blacklist on dishonest schools and unethical agents as well. 

 

www.bjstuff.com/xn/detail/1346598:Topic:6316350?xg_source=activity

 

http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/blog/scam-alert-foreign-teacher-fraud/

 

http://www.ChinaForeignTeachersUnion.org

 

 

9 years 33 weeks ago
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bill8899:

Oh yea, those guys? Spamming expat forums for years. The posters are never members (like you), they just spam CFTU links everywhere. 

I had a problem with a school and a CFTU "non-member" gave me Gregg's email. Gregg of CFTU. Said he would get me my money! Guess what? He never replied. 

Oh by the way none of the spammers for CFTU are members because labor unions are illegal in China, especially for foreigners. 

It's the same lame schtick posted repeatedly by Gregg and his many alter-egos. 

Nice chatting with you, Gregg/Tarzan/Whatever. 

9 years 33 weeks ago
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bill8899:

And thanks for spamming a two year old post! Classic. 

9 years 33 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

Bill you have NO RIGHT to criticize the CFTU. If they didn't help you it was because you are not pure! 

 

Tarzan has the moral authority here. Even if you are delusional enough think the CFTU is just some elaborate ruse to gain legitimacy for a scheme to extort recruiters/schools via threat of blacklist, YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY THAT.

 

ONLY GOOD THINGS CAN BE SAID ABOUT THE CFTU AND THE LEADER, who you DO NOT refer to by name.

 

I expect an immediate apology.

9 years 33 weeks ago
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Tarzan:

You know fellas, opinions are like farts, we all have a few. So let's just agree to disagree okay?  As I said, I am not a member, and I know full well that real labor unions would never be allowed in China. But I have seen quite a few people get their release letters and last pay checks from employers only because of CFTU intervention.  They also give a lot of free and useful information without trying to sell anything to people. If not for the CFTU  I would never have known that my employer was deducting taxes from me that were never paid to the government.  I made a stink and got back 7,000 rmb.  What have you guys done for me?

 

http://www.bjstuff.com/profiles/blogs/tax-fraud-affects-30-of-all-china-foreign-expat-teachers-cftu?xg_source=activity

 

For all I know some of you guys may be recruiting on the side for a few extra bucks at that may be why you dislike them so much?  Did you honestly have some negative experience with them that you can prove?

 

http://www.esl-jobs-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6523

 

http://eslwatch.info/china-2/scams-or-schemes-in-china/12147-beware-of-agents-recruiters-masquerading-as-esl-tefl-teachers-at-expat-esl-tefl-forums.html

 

http://www.thebeijinger.com/forum/2014/04/12/too-many-agents-recruiters-now-posting-teachers-expat-forums

 

http://www.eslbase.com/forum/viewtopic/t-3125

 

How many of you guys actually attended on of their meetings or went to one of their events like this one?

 

http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/events/activities/cftu-sponsors-cross-cultural-training-seminar-for-new-china-foreign-expat-teachers/

 

It's so easy to criticize something you never experienced yourself.  If you never went bungee jumping, scuba diving, or skydiving, how could you describe it to others? Yet you guys are doing the same thing here.

 

Like I said, from MY personal experience I see no problem with expat teachers volunteering their time to help out their colleagues in China.

9 years 33 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

Tarzan are you losing your grip on reality?

 

You may want to deny your membership but I don't. I am proud of what is done and nobody gets angrier about the trash and bash people than me. I think my track record proves that.

 

Why are you denying yourself membership?

9 years 33 weeks ago
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bill8899:

Tarzan, I have done nothing for you, nor will I ever. Why? Because I am as ineffective as the CFTU. Difference is I don't pretend to help. 

 

I don't "know people who were helped by the CFTU". I was referred to them by one of your aliases, and I still have not received a reply. And I never will, because they don't do shit. I got my money myself, thanks. 

 

9 years 33 weeks ago
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11 years 38 weeks ago
 
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Labour Unions are about rights. China and rights, or at-least campaigns to do with rights, are not the best of friends. I doubt if the existence of such a union may be tolerated as it may be suspected to be a disguised attempt to sow western forms of democratic ideals among the Chinese. Just come to this forum - echinacities - to complain when your employer cons you....that's the farthest you can go....and spare yourself the unncessary stress ' where are Teachers Unions?'

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11 years 38 weeks ago
 
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Haha, nope, erm...bill8899, i'm not familiar with China's history or current legal climate around unions, onions or any such like at all i'm afraid. Just an ignorant London boy, me. But really, would a collective union of teachers be such a threat to the establishment? I guess maybe it would. In fact I guess maybe I should change the subject before my front door gets kicked in and i'm carted away for dissident behaviour.

giadrosich:

I hear them knocking...

11 years 38 weeks ago
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Gaohao:

Naa, that was my wife, she just farted.

11 years 38 weeks ago
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11 years 38 weeks ago
 
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I believe there is a clause in the standard SAFEA contract that you must have signed and agreed to. It goes somewhere along the lines of not interfering with PRC internal affairs. It is very broad brush and can be interpreted in many ways as the authorities see fit. As unions are not permitted in the PRC, I would suggest any foreign national that tried to establish one would be seen as in breach of this clause and therefore the contract. I suspect the contract would become null and void, so would the associated FEC and RP. 

 

Bye bye China! 

Gaohao:

Ok, bad idea. Forget I mentioned it. Good China.....Goood China.

11 years 38 weeks ago
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11 years 38 weeks ago
 
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It's not so much about the union itself, it's what a union can help individuals do - which is seek redress in dealing with unscrupulous employers. Besides talking to a Chinese attorney when a school stiffs you on pay or tries other sleazy tactics, does anyone have other suggestions? Bring your kung fu instructor to talk to your boss?

Tarzan:

Actually about the only thing the CFTU can do in China is warn people about scammy schools and shady agents.  Take a look...

 

http://www.chinaforeignteachersunion.org/2012/12/china-foreign-teachers-union-posts-esl.html

 

But they have no legal authority in China so don't expect much more than advice.

9 years 33 weeks ago
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11 years 38 weeks ago
 
Posts: 1201

Shifu

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Unions and parties in China are against the policy and their regulations.....so i think there is nothing called union for foreign teachers

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11 years 38 weeks ago
 
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ok let me see, foreign english teachers make 3-4 times more than a chinese english teacher could make even if she spoke fluent english. foreign english teachers work less hours. foreign english teaching jobs are only open to foreigners. uni teachers get 4 months off a year, fully paid (if you re-up). there are a lot of perks and benefits such as field trips, shopping trips, the best accommodations. would you like the wife of the dean to become your personal fluffer as well.

 

do not get greedy. appreciate what we have while we have it.

crimochina:

oh i forgot to mention the shatty working conditions of nationals . yes we need the union first and foremost. 

 

in usa we get pissed if immigrants make 1 penny above minimum wage. but here in china we deserve better than the locals. discrimination is ok as long as it benefits me.

11 years 38 weeks ago
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Gaohao:

I agree, we laowai have it easy. Doesn't mean i'm happy to bend over though. It's ironic but we are both first class and second class citizens at the same time. I appreciate my situation here in China, i'm not one of these whiners, pissing and moaning about the country when they can just as easily go home, but it doesn't mean I have to ignore the ocassional need for protection from dodgy bosses when a contract has run out and your pay is being held back, you know what I mean?

11 years 38 weeks ago
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crimochina:

do your homework and stick with credible schools.  if you are smart and don't try to be greedy you could avoid shady schools

11 years 38 weeks ago
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11 years 38 weeks ago
 
Posts: 277

Shifu

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There are no unions for teachers in China. This is the reason why education in China is so good, and so cheap! Get rid of those filthy unions!

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11 years 38 weeks ago
 
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 I think its a great idea.   I also think its possible.  Dont listen to what some of the nay sayers are saying on this wall. I am not talking about everybody.   I support you.  If you are in Shenzhen look me up and we can discuss starting  one.  Why not?  With God all things  are possible

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11 years 33 weeks ago
 
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China does have unions.  As for the guy on the forum who says we got it so much better than the local chinese.   you are correct sir, we do have it better.    I think if the locals are jealous and envious of us they have a good reason for this.   Instead of just complaining about why not change it?    What I see are a few possible sollutions to change this?  Number 1, start your own company, or find parterns and begin a joint, co-opt business venture together, 2 invent something which is extremely hard and not very likely.  3. Quit your job or stay at the one you are with until you build up enough skills, knowledge, and experience to either wing it on your own, or find better opportunity.   4 Chinese locals can also stand up, stick together no matter what happens, take a big risks, and start their own unions.  Why not?    5  I dont like, build guangxi, or great connections with goverment and business leaders, which I dont like because it leads to the road of compromise.  6. Last and my recommendation, fully surrneder your lives, repent of your sins, and make Jesus Lord of your life, and than humble ourselves and ask God to show us his way, not ours, and will give us more than we could ever ask or imagine.  Hope that helps.

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11 years 33 weeks ago
 
Posts: 887

Shifu

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Hmm there is some kind of Union for Chinese teachers...In my Uni we are also part of it cuz we get the same benefits as they do - a bonus on every holiday!, plenty of gift cards, phone credit...huge boxes of fruits etc...or at least they say 'union' in English...but who knows lol

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11 years 33 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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No my dog ate the form with all the ideas about that so we had to disregard it. We are planning on doing something else it's not a teachers union but it is similiar to it. I will keep you updated and let you know what it is I'm working on. K?

WonHungLo:

Is this same dog that dance to gangnam style and smile at you? You working on something, ha ha, I think you locked up.

11 years 18 weeks ago
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