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Posts: 2240

Shifu

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Q: There's no such thing called racist sometimes.

It's a very sensitive topic but I want to talk it about. I often heard foreigners called Chinese racist because many Chinese women don't want to date black men. So now let's talk about human rights? I don't like eatting Toufu,my sister just hates eatting mushroom. Put in same way, so what's wrong for some women don't feel physically attracted to black men? If you tell a woman to date someone she doesn't feel attracted to,it's against human rights in my perspective. So let's not play the racist card. There's no such thing sometimes. Second topics about diffrent beauty perspective. Most Chinese find light skin attractive while most white people find tan or light brown skin attractive. Maybe there's some culture reason to track back to history which I am not certain sure. My advice is just respect the diffrence.     

8 years 7 weeks ago in  General  - China

 
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Aww, Vicky can use straw men now. We speak up against racism, so now we are opposing freedom of choice.

Some Shanghai girls may be hot, good for a one-night-stand and nothing more, but I'd never want to marry one. Sorry, I don't want to produce a baby whose mother was a Shanghai girl. That's my freedom of choice! You probably didn't care to know, and the implications of my statement may be hurtful to Shanghai girls, but if I didn't make my feelings clear, I would be forced to consider Shanghai girls as serious relationship partners. It's either:
1) openly discriminate against Shanghai girls
2) lose my freedom to refuse to marry a Shanghai girl

Isn't that right, Vicky?

People are offended by joy lee's question, because:
- she placed a dating ad in a discussion forum. A TOU violation, not that you'd care
- she openly admits that foreignets are not her preferred choice, but she has few options due to her age
- she suggests foreigners have low standards ("too old for Chinese men, but not too old for foreigners")
- reaching out to meet people with one hand, and pushing people away with the other
- placing us in her 1-dimensional hierarchy of human men, based on race
- rejecting an entire race for no valid reason than her stupid prejudices, and remembr that there wasn't even a black guy interested before she rejected them all
- and the worst of all, doing all the above things spontaneously. there was no interest. nobody was looking for a girlfriend in Ningbo. none of the expats on this forum are even online to meet girls, otherwise they'd be hanging out on wechat, momo or the street corner.

this makes me ANNOYED at her. she shouldn't be allowed to produce any baby of any race - her stupidity must not be allowed to reach the next generation. And if my buddy the-passage-of-time has anything to say about it, she won't.

Is anyone suggesting she doesn't have a right to date whichever race she wants? of course not.
do you think we are saying she MUST date black guys too? youknow better than that.

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8 years 7 weeks ago
 
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Posts: 2855

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I am not sure that you have a full understanding of what it means to go "against human rights."   

 

http://www.beyondintractability.org/essay/human-rights-violations

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8 years 7 weeks ago
 
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Finding men of a particular ethnic type more attractive is one thing. But the post you are referring to isn't that.

 

The woman in question didn't say "I find [this] kind of man attractive."

 

She said "I don't want to produce a black baby."

 

She wasn't expressing interest in Caucasian men, but embarrassment at the stigma of having a black baby.

 

Viki87:

Can't judge her that fast. We don't know her. Maybe she doesn't know correct words to express the reason why she doesn't want black baby.

8 years 7 weeks ago
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8 years 7 weeks ago
 
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Personally, I find beauty in all colors of women and I have dated them all. But racist attitudes often comes out in our speech and how we write our ideas. They can't be hidden. When a person is called out for being racist, it usually isnt because of their personal preference. Everyone has their own preference. Usually the reason is how they decided to express that preference. Chinese people are very superficial and face motivated, so racist tendencies often grow in this environment. When someone says they dont want to produce a black baby, when it wasn't necessary to even mention, they are revealing an underlying racist attitude. A better wording would be "I prefer white guys". But the girl couldn't mask (and they usually can't) her disgust of black people. She couldn't help herself, she had to say it. This is the mark of a racist person. I had a racist Korean gf (she loved black men and hated white and asian men, especially chinese) who once told me I wasn't black enough. I cried laughing.

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8 years 7 weeks ago
 
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To some extent, Viki, you are making a valid point here. A famous but controversial UK politician, Enoch Powell, made the same point in the late 1960's. After delivering a particularly inflammatory speech, he was interviewed on TV. He was asked directly "Are you a racist"?

 

Powell made the point that it depends how you define "racist" or "racism". There is a very thin dividing line between allowing a person to express personal choice and what is now classed as racist behaviour. In the eyes of Powell, if a landlord renting out rooms would only take in white people, that was a matter of choice but a company that operated a white only policy would be racist.

 

Of course a woman should be free to decide who she has sexual relations with and if she doesn't like certain people due to their skin colour, race or culture, that is her choice. However, making her feelings known in public does transcend the boundaries of racism simply because others may well find her thoughts offensive and maybe even hurtful.

 

Samsara makes another point about racial stereotypes. That is a particularly ugly subject in itself. To make out that something or somebody is inferior or objectionable on racial grounds e.g. "I don't want a black baby" reeks of attitudes propagated in Germany between 1933 and 1945. Humanity can do without those kinds of thought patterns.

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8 years 7 weeks ago
 
Posts: 724

Shifu

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Let me help you trim your over-complicated question a bit. Your question is simply: is it ok to talk about color if you have a better explanation?

 

I'm not going to answer you directly, instead, i'm going to ask you a question and leave the answer to yourself.

 

Assuming that you are dating a guy and the moment he pulled down your panties and saw that you have black pussy and he didn't want to continue date you anymore.

 

He could say,

 

1.  sorry, i'm not attracted to black pussy simply because i don't find the color attractive. 

 

or 

 

2. sorry, i'm not attracted to black pussy because those women must have fucked lots of men, so i think you are a whore.

 

or

 

3. he could just simply leave the topic, apologize and get the hell out of here.

 

It is totally possible that he simply doesn't find black pussy attractive without thinking you are a whore, and there are lots of valid biological evidence to prove the possibility of it but i'm not going to go over them with you here.

 

And if you are familiar with what 'stereotyping' is about, you'd know that the moment you pointed out someone has a black pussy you are already not just talking about color, if you know what i mean?

 

 

Englteachted:

Well stated. Perfect. 

8 years 7 weeks ago
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sorrel:

recent post on Speaking of China

 

http://www.speakingofchina.com/fenshou/larry-a-short-tale-of-ignorance-or-cross-cultural-misunderstanding/

 

 

8 years 7 weeks ago
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8 years 7 weeks ago
 
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I used to know a white girl who didn't date white guys, she only dated black guys. We all have our preferences, it doesn't mean anything. For the record, I don't date black guys either.

Viki87:

 Nice comment.

8 years 7 weeks ago
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8 years 7 weeks ago
 
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If you don't want a black baby, there's always abortion...but is that murder?

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8 years 7 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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I don't want to date anyone from a different race because I'm not a race traitor and I want to preserve the racial purity of the White race. I'm not racist - it's just about preferences.

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8 years 7 weeks ago
 
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What about prostitutes? Do they have a "right" to deny customers based on race?

Lord_hanson:

I would say that prostitutes have the right to choose their clients. They are not sex slaves after all.

8 years 7 weeks ago
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seansarto:

What then is the difference of not wanting to serve blacks at a restaurant..or homosexuals wanting a wedding cake...If a prostitute has a "right"?...

Do you believe a female's preference should be the primary condition for extinction? I tend to believe "race" is a consolidation of either choice or power.

8 years 7 weeks ago
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8 years 7 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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For once, I find I must agree with Vicky. Having a preference is like having an opinion. You are entitled to have one. With regards to the post about the black baby. Do I think it was racist? No. Do I think it was offensive? Yes. Whilst people are entitled to their opinions they are also responsible for what they say.

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8 years 7 weeks ago
 
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Aww, Vicky can use straw men now. We speak up against racism, so now we are opposing freedom of choice.

Some Shanghai girls may be hot, good for a one-night-stand and nothing more, but I'd never want to marry one. Sorry, I don't want to produce a baby whose mother was a Shanghai girl. That's my freedom of choice! You probably didn't care to know, and the implications of my statement may be hurtful to Shanghai girls, but if I didn't make my feelings clear, I would be forced to consider Shanghai girls as serious relationship partners. It's either:
1) openly discriminate against Shanghai girls
2) lose my freedom to refuse to marry a Shanghai girl

Isn't that right, Vicky?

People are offended by joy lee's question, because:
- she placed a dating ad in a discussion forum. A TOU violation, not that you'd care
- she openly admits that foreignets are not her preferred choice, but she has few options due to her age
- she suggests foreigners have low standards ("too old for Chinese men, but not too old for foreigners")
- reaching out to meet people with one hand, and pushing people away with the other
- placing us in her 1-dimensional hierarchy of human men, based on race
- rejecting an entire race for no valid reason than her stupid prejudices, and remembr that there wasn't even a black guy interested before she rejected them all
- and the worst of all, doing all the above things spontaneously. there was no interest. nobody was looking for a girlfriend in Ningbo. none of the expats on this forum are even online to meet girls, otherwise they'd be hanging out on wechat, momo or the street corner.

this makes me ANNOYED at her. she shouldn't be allowed to produce any baby of any race - her stupidity must not be allowed to reach the next generation. And if my buddy the-passage-of-time has anything to say about it, she won't.

Is anyone suggesting she doesn't have a right to date whichever race she wants? of course not.
do you think we are saying she MUST date black guys too? youknow better than that.

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8 years 7 weeks ago
 
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It's quite rare, I think, for someone to just have an opinion of "I want/don't want..." without any form of additionals. That is, 'reasons' for their wants.

 

In this case, the "I don't want a black baby" is not merely a colour preference. It does to something else - biases and prejudices.

 

If you ask people why they do or don't want something, you'll get an inclination towards this.

 

Some people prefer Asians - why? Well, there is the stereotypes that they've bought into. Some would prefer Latinos. Why? Because they have a certain stereotype sitting in their head.

 

Why NOT a Chinese person? Because they're rude, crude, ignorant, selfish, materialist (racist). However, this won't be true for all of them (apparently - just ask those married to Chinese partners on this board!)

 

So - ask why not a 'black' man to your female friends! (and, also, why not a black anyone to any of your other friends). THEN you'll understand that it isn't just a 'preference', but an underlying idea.

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8 years 7 weeks ago
 
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We are all racist. It is our job to recognise that as a fact, and do our bit to make the next generation less racist. And the generation we teach will teach the next.

It is with this ideology in mind, that me and a dozen or so other "foreign" dads in Guangzhou are
in the process of setting up an international kids group. The kids have mums and dads from everywhere, of all colours and religions. And us dads want all our kids to be friends. The dads might not agree with each other, but we do all agree we want our kids to be friends. Because the future belongs to them.

After CNY I will be putting a lot of effort into this group. My daughter will not grow up to be racist. And lots of dads in GZ agree. Our aim is to make this whole race thing pointless. We want our kids to know equality. We want our kids to be friends.

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8 years 7 weeks ago
 
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Lets take this from a different direction.

 

Imagine everyone was the same colour, the same religion and the same nationality.

 

We are all a mild brown colour, we all live on Earthlania, and we are all basically the same.

 

We have universal healthcare and education, nobody is hungry, 50% of people are rich and 50% are poor. The rich people have iphones, the poor people have windows phones.

 

Everyone has a job.

 

 

Its a sort of Socialist Capitalist utopia.

 

Straight down the middle. 50% poor... 50% rich.

 

What would you do to go from the poor half to the rich half?

 

My answer.. you would invent differnces. you would say that boss is slightly less blue... that boss has a green tinge... that boss had boss parents.

 

My point is Vicky, the world will always be an unjust place. But you, as an educated person, should never never never play the race card. Because when you do that, you divide. We are all the same. Period. Full stop. We are the same. There is no black brown yellow orange and green. We are all the same.

 

If you cant see that then you have to sit back and find a solution to your problem.

Janosik:

No, we are not the same. It's total misconception which cannot end up well. It already starts with male and female. But we are equal! Irrespective of our shape, sex, color of the skin! And what concerns of your Utopia - I assume it would be a hell to live in such environment. There were many attempts in the history to achieve something similar and they all turned into absolute disaster. But coming back to the topic - I a bit fail to understand the flames which came on the original question OP. Western countries are super plotically correct and we got used such environment. China is not. It's hard to say if OP just used ackward formulation or is really racist ...

8 years 7 weeks ago
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8 years 7 weeks ago
 
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As a Black male myself, I've never accused you of being a racist - different strokes for different folks I guess. But you do seem to have a bit of a weird fascination with white men, it seems to be all that you talk about (followed by a usual rant or protestation). I think that alot of the posters here normally urge you to open up your mind more (in terms of different guys) rather than agressively going for one type.

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8 years 6 weeks ago
 
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It is only in cultural wars that "racism" has any distinction.

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8 years 6 weeks ago
 
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It is only in cultural wars that "racism" has any distinction.

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8 years 6 weeks ago
 
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It is only in cultural wars that "racism" has any distinction.

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8 years 6 weeks ago
 
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