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Posts: 3494

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Q: Was I wrong?

If I was, tell me.

Last week, a class I was having were more sullen and misbehaved than usual and so I stopped what I was trying to do and, without a word, wrote this (rhetorical) question on the blackboard. 

Q;  Is it true that Chinese people are the rudest people in the world?

Well, some students bothered to take the time to read it and one or two even had the initiative to ask me what the definition of 'rudest' was.

As the meaning of my question quickly spread amongst the class the collective response seemed to be a combination of denial and surprise.

When I assured them that the correct answer was 'Yes, it is' I started to feel a smidgeon of guilt.

Should I have?  Was I wrong?

 

9 years 18 weeks ago in  Culture - China

 
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I would give up my echinacities jacket in exchange for being able to give you 1000 thumbs up!!!!

royceH:

Hahaha.... buoyed by your support I'm going to have a beer.

 

9 years 18 weeks ago
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9 years 18 weeks ago
 
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yes and no.

yes: in that it will probably come back and bite you in the ass some time in the future, depending on the level of students you are teaching.

no: you are human and there is a limit to anyone's patience unless you are on valium.

If i have reason to loose it, usually for something persistent, I get angry at the individual, move on and don't refer to it again.

It is not as if FT's are like some of the local teachers I have met who shout at and humiliate students

royceH:

Balanced answer, as usual.  Thanks.

 

9 years 18 weeks ago
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9 years 18 weeks ago
 
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You should have replaced "Chinese" by "you", but being very clear that you were pissed off by their behavior. The whole face game is delicate, and never fair game.

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9 years 18 weeks ago
 
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If you were teaching in your home country, and did that to let's say Vietnamese, Japanese, Mexican or Nigerian students simply based on the fact you could not control that class would you have been fired? The answer is yes and rightfully so. A teacher must know how to keep their feelings in check, the classroom is not the place to insult the Nationality (although it can be argued that it is true) of your students. I sincerely hope that you will be fired. 

Getting thumbs up from people who have made it clear that they are racist should not be comforting. 

This has nothing to do with face, you were in the wrong clearly. 

If you were  fit to be a teacher you would have been sure to put yourself in a position that you could handle. 

I have yelled at my students for their behavior and piss work but I always did it in a way that was not insulting. If student(Drunk are being uncontrollable demand that they leave the classroom or stand in the back of the class. This has worked when teaching 60 rude spoiled middle school students. 

You are not fit to be a teacher. 

royceH:

Thanks, I needed that.

Suitably chastened I shall go about reconsidering my future,  Might be best for all concerned.

Of some concern to me though is if I'm not suited to be doing what I'm doing then....gees.  Where do I go from here.  Down, probably.

Anyhow, thanks again.

 

 

9 years 18 weeks ago
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Scandinavian:

If one did that in Scandinavia surely the teacher would be applauded for making the students question their behavior. 

 

Come to think of it, I think my high school history teacher spent a great deal of class just telling us how stupid and narrow minded we all were. He was working very hard on expanding our minds. 

9 years 18 weeks ago
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9 years 18 weeks ago
 
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Did you get out of the wrong side of the bed! Two wrongs, and all that. Unless you have personally encountered lack of social skills from every nation in the globe, which I doubt, then personally I believe you were wrong. The world is full of rude, ignorant and disruptive people. As a teacher you should be in control. Good observation will allow you to know when things are becoming unruly,  its your place to keep the students focused and it's up to you to get them back no track, without insults. When you used e term ' Chinese' you branded everyone, unfortunately many Chinese do not possess social skills, but many do, so it is unfair you vent anger towards all, when in true you lost control of your class.  There are many way to express your dissatisfaction other than written derogatory remarks. Students will often  push the boundaries, finding your limits, your tolerance level, it's up to you to keep it in check.  Chinese teachers  may get away with physical abuse, chair throwing et cetera but as foreign teachers we are always in the firing line for gossip and pointing the finger, and juicy media headlines.  Hope tomorrows a better day., but

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9 years 18 weeks ago
 
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Yes.....new raincoat 2 points

'generalising always make you wrong' after I read your post!

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9 years 18 weeks ago
 
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You probably could have handled the situation better.

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9 years 18 weeks ago
 
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if the shoe fits lol

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9 years 18 weeks ago
 
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The problem in China is that kids/students/people are taught to not respect foreign teachers but to see them as some sort of huge curiosity or entertainment.

 

It's not a problem for most of the wankers with very low self-esteem coming to China for a year and who have no idea how to teach.

 

But when a serious teacher who wants to do well and improve the student's level arrives there is a massive gap between what the teacher wants to be/do and what the students expect from him.

 

When I was teaching I always tried my best and never played the dancing monkey. In some classes it took time and a lot of discipline/authority to get the student's respect but I did it.

 

Taking your job seriously and making real classes (not very entertaining) can also disappoint your employer, they are so used to foreigners not taking their job seriously that most will sign you expecting that, although not .written on the contract for obvious face reasons.

 

I clearly told some of my previous employers "I am here to teach primary, I don't see the purpose of standing at the front gate saying Hi and Bye to the students every day, instead give me more time to prepare my classes so they can be better", different people different expectations, they want to show off their foreigner, I want to teach and prepare high standards classes.

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9 years 18 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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I'm not sure, I'm not a teacher, but I heard the way to control students is to make them lose face or risk losing face. So maybe you accomplished that. The question is, how did the students react afterwards?

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9 years 18 weeks ago
 
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Personally I would have handwritten each student a note that they could bring home to their parents saying "If you kid doesn't listen to the teacher he will remain a moron, is that what you want ?"

Eorthisio:

I tried that once, the parents' response was "we have money, it doesn't matter, our little emperor doesn't need to study, don't pressure him", some nouveaux riches farmers who sold their land to a real estate entrepreneur.

 

I was like "well" and the boy didn't do sh*t for the whole semester, failed his tests but was passed by the administration. Parents' were like "his english is not good (compared to other kids)" caring about face only, as if it was my fault, I reminded them their words and told them that their kid is a stupid wanker, they played offended, my 10 months contract ended 2 weeks later at the end of the semester, end of the story.

9 years 18 weeks ago
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DrMonkey:

The standard attitude is that it's the teacher job to put knowledge in the student's head. The student is assumed to not have much responsibility, he is passive. You upload, he download, it should be effortless. In that perspective, what you are doing is simply showing your failure.

I know, it's broken by design. But it's what the parents and the students only know, and they will take refuge behind the "them foreigners" attitude when put out their comfort zone. Trying to explain this will not work either : any argumentation of more than one minute of speech is boring. And it will be taken as a personal aggression, a loss of face, a sophistic battle of wit, etc.

9 years 18 weeks ago
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Eorthisio:

That is the standard attitude for Chinese teachers maybe, they talk for the length of the class and there is nearly zero exchange between them and the students, the last blindly copy/note what the teacher says.

 

Now when it comes to foreign teachers they are often expected to be entertaining or amusing, I have seen parents complaining about FT being too strict (they were much less than local teachers) and not funny enough.

 

There is a world of differences between what is expected from local and foreign teachers, very few people consider the last as real teachers even when they have decades of experience.

9 years 17 weeks ago
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9 years 18 weeks ago
 
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pot. kettle. black.

 

They're students dowg, give em a break.

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9 years 18 weeks ago
 
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The objective is to bring them around to you. Doing what you did would cause you to lose the students that you already had.

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9 years 18 weeks ago
 
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Thanks folks, I appreciate your balanced input.  (Ted might have been a little over the top, but I respect his prerogative.)

I did actually go on, in that class last week, to explain to the students that I didn't mean that all Chinese people were rude, and that I didn't believe all of them were rude.  Indeed, I mentioned that some of them were in fact terrific students and I thanked them for being so.

In retrospect I think what I did may even have been useful.  

The less than 30% of the class who can understand basic English were given food for thought.  The reminder of the the class certainly didn't give a stuff.

I had that same class again today and it didn't go too badly.  Behaviour was much improved and a number of students even took the chance to come and show me their written work. (I always ask them to do so but they never do.) I spent 5 minutes after the class critiquing their writing and almost didn't make the next class in time.

All in all, yes I was out of line.  And all in all Chinese people, not all of them, are rude.

 

 

Robk:

Were you wrong... 

 

Based on Western views... yes. Based on Chinese views... no. They actually respect blatant and harsh reviews sometimes. Many kids get criticized to death by their parents and see that as a way of "caring". If the teacher criticizes me, then he must care... otherwise he would just ignore me. 

 

So what you did may have woke them up as intended. You are in China and sometimes doing crazy stuff works. 

9 years 18 weeks ago
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If I take a job as an ESL teacher in China I will be sending Royce a PM so I can get a copy of his lesson plans.

Your actions were spot on. It fits perfectly with the whole concept of self critisisim and it also ties in with the current Government policy.

Teach by questions. not by pronouncenments.

Good on yer.

I wish more teachers were like you. Getting the kids ready for the cut and thust of international industry and all that.

royceH:

Och n away......yer taken the piss now laddie!

 

9 years 18 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

Not at all Royce. My politics are left wing but I am old school conservative when it comes to education. When I was at school many moons ago, too many classes were destroyed by disruptive pupils. Some teachers were so weak the entire subject could be a write off. Disruptive pupils waste it for the kids who do want to learn. You made your pupils think. And given the way China works, I would not be surprised if the intospective qustion you asked encouraged the learners to gang together to have words with the disruptive elements. It's the face thing again is it not ?

9 years 18 weeks ago
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