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Posts: 1098

Shifu

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Q: Was I in the wrong?

So this happened a couple months ago at a small pizza restaurant in my city. The place is owned by a Chinese who immigrated to Canada and he put his peasant parents in charge of it in his absence.  A little relevant background information - I have been a regular customer there for 2+ years and the joint is quite popular with foreigners. It's tiny - only about 4 tables and often the group I'm with and I are the only people there. I've taken my wife there many times, go there with friends, took my wife's mother there to introduce her to western food, and have even taken students there. The old guy running the place knows my wife and me very well and always talks to us when we're there. Basically, it felt like the kind of place where I was a regular customer and wouldn't have to worry about the cheating conniving dishonesty that is commonplace in China. 

 

So that day I finished work at 7 and planned to meet my wife and 2 friends at the restaurant. They arrived about fifteen minutes before me  and were the only people there when I arrived. Apparently before my arrival the old hag running the place kept pestering my friends to order and said he wanted to close soon. Really man? Close at 7:15 on a Sunday night in a western restaurant on a busy street? Strike one. So basically he made everyone really uncomfortable before I arrived. 

 

After my arrival we ordered our food and drinks as normal. We ran up a decent bill for a casual place - something like 300-400 kuai between the 4 of us. Now my wife (being Chinese) wanted some hot water. Simple enough. Well the old man goes into a 3 minute rant about how the pipes are messed up and how there's no water and how troublesome (mafan) it is to get water and insists that she order bottled water instead. Weird but... whatever. Well the wife wants it hot so he says he'll put it in a glass. Well as this is happening I go to use the restroom and there were no problems at all with the water. It was running just fine. So the guy just wanted to sell us a 2 kuai bottle of water and make up a bizarre story to justify it...... strike 2. Funny thing is, I'm pretty sure he didn't even sell us a bottle because we never saw any bottle. Just a glass full of hot water so I'm 95% sure he just boiled some tap water and charged us for it. 

 

Well we eat, we drink and then it comes time for the bill. As he'd handing the bill to my wife, her arm knocks over one small glass and it breaks. Being polite, she apologized and offered to pay for the glass. The old man got very excited and asked her for 10 kuai for the glass. Now, I've seen many glasses break at restaurants in China and never once has the restaurant asked for money (even when the customer offers to pay for it). The glass in question here was a really crappy one that he probably bought for 2 kuai at a wholesale market. That aside, I used to have a friend who was such a drunk he would break glasses stumbling out of bbq restaurants pretty much every time he went. The people at the restaurant just cleaned up and helped him walk out as they knew he'd be back spending money next week. strike 3. 

 

Only at this point am I getting annoyed at the feeling that a guy whose restaurant we've been going to consistently for 2+ years is trying to squeeze every kuai out of us in the pettiest and scummiest ways possible. I don't give a shit if a place doesn't serve hot water. But come on man, just say "we serve bottled water" and save the stupid story. Asking for 10 kuai from a regular customer for a crappy glass that he was sort of at fault for breaking? Yea... real classy.

 

Well, whatever. We pay the bill and my wife asks for a tax receipt. It is the law  that any restaurant has to provide this to customers. On each receipt in Changchun, there is a scratch out ticket where it's possible to earn a small monetary prize. So the old bastard refuses to give us a receipt and tells another long winded story about how he can't give receipts because it's his son's restaurant and blablabla. At this point, I just want to punch the guy in the face. Now, my anger had nothing to do with money at all. I could care less about the few kuai. It's the feeling of someone who you thought you could trust treating you that way. I mean whatever happened to treating regular customers with decency and respect? I was completely livid and walked up to the guy and called him a scammer (pianzi) and explained that I was never coming back to his restaurant again. He replied that he didn't care and that I wouldn't be welcome in the future. As I was walking out I screamed "fuck you" (in english) at him a few times and that was it. I never normally start conflicts with Chinese and I felt kind of ashamed of making such a fuss over an old peasant trying to get a few kuai but the whole experience left a shitty taste in my mouth. I'll be sure to only give my business to places that treat me with some basic dignity and respect in the future. 

 

So was I in the wrong? Should I have just smiled at him and never came back? Should I have avoided cursing? Am I making too big a deal over something that's trivial? 

 

If I was new in China I don't think I would have cared. Sometimes dealing with petty scum every day gets tiring and one old crab at a pizza place pushes you over the edge. Or I'm just a nut. 

 

 

9 years 8 weeks ago in  General  - China

 
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I would have told him to stuff it too. As your probably the only regular customer, take satisfaction when it closes.

When that kind of stuff happens to me i like to walk past with food/ products from a rival place and let them soak in the lost money. Also as its a western restaurant copy and paste this rant on any site that lists the place.

dongbeiren:

Funny thing is, a new pizza/western food place just opened up right across the street that blows the old bastard's place away. It has a great atmosphere,  had tasteful Christmas decorations up during Christmas season, polite service, delicious pizza and authentic western appetizers. Oh and a great selection of German beer!  I can't imagine the old fart will stay in business much longer. It's not really a good sign when you're thinking of closing a restaurant in a busy part of town at 7:15 on  a Sunday due to lack of customers. It's too bad that the actual owner had no one  better than his peasant parents to look after his restaurant. 

9 years 8 weeks ago
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mike695ca:

Thats perfect! Next time,take a pizza to go and sloooowly walk by the old pricks window laughing. For effect you can open the box, take out a slice and eat it right there, completly orgasmic! Make your mmmms as loud as possible.

9 years 8 weeks ago
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Monsieur:

Everyone's fuse gets cut in half after arriving in China. Don't sweat it.

9 years 8 weeks ago
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9 years 8 weeks ago
 
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Governor

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Artie, you did well by not hitting him.  Just find another place.

dongbeiren:

There are lots of great places opening up around Changchun. The place I'm bad mouthing is Paul's Pizza, formally my favorite pizza joint in town. Not to worry, there are many better options now. Let me know when you're back in town and we can check one of those places out! 

9 years 8 weeks ago
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yongge:

Sure, will do.  Hoping to be back in China by March, but I will be based more south, where the weather is warmer.  However, I will travel to Changchun regularly for the next few months.

 

There is a nice pizza joint called Milan, opposite the fouth tram station as you come up Hong Qi Jie from Wanda Plaza.

 

 

9 years 8 weeks ago
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9 years 8 weeks ago
 
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I would have told him to stuff it too. As your probably the only regular customer, take satisfaction when it closes.

When that kind of stuff happens to me i like to walk past with food/ products from a rival place and let them soak in the lost money. Also as its a western restaurant copy and paste this rant on any site that lists the place.

dongbeiren:

Funny thing is, a new pizza/western food place just opened up right across the street that blows the old bastard's place away. It has a great atmosphere,  had tasteful Christmas decorations up during Christmas season, polite service, delicious pizza and authentic western appetizers. Oh and a great selection of German beer!  I can't imagine the old fart will stay in business much longer. It's not really a good sign when you're thinking of closing a restaurant in a busy part of town at 7:15 on  a Sunday due to lack of customers. It's too bad that the actual owner had no one  better than his peasant parents to look after his restaurant. 

9 years 8 weeks ago
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mike695ca:

Thats perfect! Next time,take a pizza to go and sloooowly walk by the old pricks window laughing. For effect you can open the box, take out a slice and eat it right there, completly orgasmic! Make your mmmms as loud as possible.

9 years 8 weeks ago
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Monsieur:

Everyone's fuse gets cut in half after arriving in China. Don't sweat it.

9 years 8 weeks ago
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9 years 8 weeks ago
 
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I'd go and sit and eat pizza hit pizza in front of his joint (well, maybe pretend eat as the pizza is pretty crap)

 

Certainly such a person should know how retarded he is

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9 years 8 weeks ago
 
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I've tried to explain to Chinese acquaintances that some Western guys are hot-tempered.  They never seem to quite understand wtf I'm talking about.  But the law of averages says these guys pulling scams and acting like dicks are gonna try that one day with a Joe Pesci and wind up with a pair of kuaizi sticking outta their neck. Some guys I know are pretty hot-tempered and kinda prone to street fightin'. My own personal tale is when I was going into a bar in Hangzhou and sucker-punched the doorman for bothering my friend about a cover charge. I was totally in the wrong but his asshole attitude rubbed me the wrong way, and right & wrong don't matter much when your in pain.  

(truth is I pulled my punch some; I was sober enuf to do that)

Anyway, I darn sure wouldn't do that with an old man, but I can't blame u at all for telling him to go F himself.

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Nah, he deserved it. 

 

I have been through all of the stupid excuses you mentioned and it is pretty obvious he messed up big time. My wife would even probably have yelled at him, while I would have called him a shai de nong ming pian zi (stupid farmer cheat).

 

That would have been the last time, I would spread my experience with everyone and urge them not to eat there (ESPECIALLY if there is a better place across the street) then stand there smiling as I watch them take down their store sign and all of the furniture during closing.

 

Old guy probably wants to close it down and then blame it on foreigners or something. That's how they do things, but you weren't the wrong. 

 

 

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9 years 8 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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Nope, not outta line. I agree... it's not about the money. It's about the respect, and he clearly didn't respect you. Dishonesty and cheating really, really gets me. Being cheap and greedy suck, but even that I can let slide, when someone lies to your face like he did... that's it.

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Yes you are wrong.

How dare )edit) you think Chinese can behave in a civilized  and decent manner. 

never let your guard down.  Always be ready to put someone on your "no go"/ shit  list.

I was having this very same conversation with someone today, Chinese are incapable of understanding the concept of friendship.

royceH:

Well, hello ted!  I agree with your remarks.

 

9 years 8 weeks ago
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9 years 8 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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I probably would have done the same thing. But I would also wait until the owner comes back and then tell him that his dad tried to screw you over and explain that is the reason why you're not coming back. Don't accept his apologies because he should know better having immigrated to Canada that westerners value respect over money. 

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I would have done the same thing especially if I had been there many times. So different from other countries where they treat their return customers very well.

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Q: why are you asking this question?

 

Is it because you were swearing? If that's your issue, then would you feel the same if you didn't swear? (or, is it the type of swearing? - again, compare it).

 

Is it because you were being rude to a Chinese person? A male? A poor peasant? An old person?

 

IMHO, I don't give 'respect' to old people... just having survived after being born before I was (even if it was decades before) is not sufficient reason for me giving someone 'respect' more than someone younger. Similarly, just because someone has had kids (like 80% of the world's population) doesn't entitle someone to extra 'respect' either. What matters, to me, is people's actions.

 

And, in my mind, this guy's actions sucked enough to merit a mouthing off!

 

And, when the young owner comes back, tell him - (not rudely) but just make it quite clear that the parents have just cost him a restaurant. And, be willing to accept the apology from the owner, but not the father's.

dongbeiren:

I asked the question because I normally try to avoid conflicts with Chinese of any age whenever possible. First of all, I don't want to incite a bunch of nationalism and end up facing a lynch mob. Really though, I think I could have made my point more effectively by staying calm and rational. I should have focused more on the reasons I wasn't coming back instead of cursing at him. If I had kept my cool, there's a small chance he actually would have realized he was at fault for driving some of his best customers away. By behaving the way I did, I let him just dismiss me as a hot headed nutjob foreigner and probably reinforced whatever biases he had.  But i doubt I could have made the old man see the light no matter what. 

9 years 8 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

I asked the questions because I thought you might have been feeling a little guilty... and I was trying to suggest that there is/was no valid reason for this :)

 

Being calm and rational would have made the guy think what he did was ok, and he's liable to do it again in the future. Screaming and cursing would have substantiated his pre-existing biases. Either way, nothing was going to change his attitude!

 

Probably the best thing you could have done was to ring the police/tax office, and had him done for not providing a receipt... so in the future he'd be less likely to try pulling one on foreigners (and others), he'd get fined, and try to play our game a little better...

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You were in the right. His tax avoidance is selfish. If he is willing to get into an argument because he wants to avoid a few RMB of tax then he should be shouted down. He is defrauding his own country. If he avoids paying tax he loses his right to complain. Ok, he has no vote anyway, but how can he expect the country to advance if he does his best to avoid paying a little amount to its development?

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I have thought a bit about how i have seen many Chinese people behave in a similar situation.

they seem to have no problem losing their cool and shouting at the least provocation: (he who shouts loudest wins)

Whereas in most arguments that involve foreigners, the default setting seems to be logic first and a degree of calm, as to lose your temper would be undignified.

So my answer is 'no' - too many buttons were pushed to remain calm

 

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Shifu

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Did the old man actually know you were a regular customer? Seems like only the immigrant owner knew that. 

dongbeiren:

Yes, he certainly knew. In fact, he's been running the place for pretty much the whole time I've been a customer and he's there just about every time I go. Not only does he know me, he usually tries to chat with my wife and me every time we go.  I think the real owner rarely comes back to China now. 

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Shifu

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I am guessing that the old man doesn't give a dang about nothing - whether the restaurant succeeds or fails.  Maybe he is pissed that his son left him with the responsibility of running the business when he ran away to wherever it was... you know, it's the youngin's that are supposed to be taking care of the old folks at that age.    The guy probably wouldn't blink an eye if the joint closed down.

 

I once had a bad restaurant experience in Shanghai, some Turkish joint that claimed it was top of the line on trip advisor.  Had to leave them a bad review cause they were real cheaters there. They tried the same tax avoidance scam actually.  

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