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Posts: 31

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Q: What do you think of this close in the contract?

  1. "Party B shall respect China’s religious policies,
  2. and shall not conduct any religious activities incompatible
  3. with his/her status as a foreign expert."

 

Sure one should respect the workplace environment and code of conduct. But, to my surprise, this is the first time I see that stipulated in a contract. Do you think this clause has room in a legal contract?

 

For me it shouldn't

 

 

 

6 years 32 weeks ago in  Business & Jobs - China

 
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I've met a couple of overt religious types....while it's invited by the locals, it's ok. When it's not (such as brought into a classroom) it's bad! I've heard students complain!

Englteachted:

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Seems the OP is a religious nutter

6 years 32 weeks ago
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Marcos_Cisneros:

@Englteachted, never mind the rather petrified and calcified use of the English language on your part .. " a religious nutter", if you were less inclined to vaunt your qualities of retort and more inclined to vaunt your qualities of understanding, you might have actually noticed that this or her question was rather moderate.  The OP raised a very good question, one that occurs rather frequently, but you again, true to your pooh-bah form, simply trashed it.  As I have said many times, your reputation to be charitable proceeds you.

6 years 32 weeks ago
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hamzaben:

@englishteacher  I hope you realize, We are real people behind our computers. I asked for opinions, end up with free insults.

 

Since I expect to see you around in this forum again, a little respect would make this place a better reference for all of us here.

 

 

6 years 32 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

You said it again which means you clearly don't know it's clause not close. So you're here teaching English under a legal contract and visa? BS 

 

Cry Baby MC testing out an escape account? 

 

Try again

 

Oh and by the way, ask a dumb question get responses fitting the question

6 years 32 weeks ago
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Marcos_Cisneros:

@hamzaben, Just igore Englteachted.  He is about as crude a person as there is.  He just does not denigrate you, he denigrates everyone except his little gang of five.  He is what is called a cyberbully.  People have written about him all over the Internet.  He is actually infamous for his behaviour. And ignore his little coterie as well.  They have somehow decided that they are the masters of this board but the truth is elsewhere.  If you look at the traffic on the board over the past several years, since Englteachted and his gang of five have proclaimed themselves the Commissars of this board, the site has practically withered away to nothing.   It is just their neighbourhood redneck bar, full of overweight middle aged white guys with lots of tattoos, so to speak.  And if you look carefully at their usage of the English language, or lack of therewith, you will notice that none are particularly successfully educated. They have pretensions of education but nothing more.  I belong to three China Boards and of the three, this one is the most crass, the most vulgar, the most shoot-out-in-Dodge-City kind of a bar. Raoul's has less traffic but it is far more controlled and none of these foul mouthed creeps would even make it through the front door of Dave's.  So my advice to you is to expect nothing here and whatever you can glean, than you are all the better for it.

6 years 32 weeks ago
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ambivalentmace:

Foreigners find a board they are happy with and usually stick with it, like I used to use Daves, so apparently only a wumao would only be on three boards at one time.

 

If you are on three boards, you may be the only one that does that. interesting though.

6 years 32 weeks ago
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6 years 32 weeks ago
 
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I've never had a problem with it.

 

Your employer is responsible for your actions, if you're going around trying to start underground churches or preach religion you'd be breaking the law and that would come back on your employer.

 

It's a reasonable addition to a contract I think.

Curiousdude:

thts right

upvote frm me.

6 years 32 weeks ago
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Marcos_Cisneros:

From  a legal point of view, simply because you may have never had a problem with this particular clause does not mean that this clause has any bona fides.

 

That being said, even though the clause is onerous and illegal in most Western countries, it is a  perfectly valid clause under Chinese law ... and not that I support it.  The Chinese, or some of them anyway, have very acute memories of the atrocities committed by the Catholic Church in China in the years 1900 to 1949, such as forcing orphan girls into prostitution, or forcing orphans into working in opium producing factories, or simply the abuse of their charges.  Additionally there was the onslaught of Mormons and Protestants prior to 1949 which groups were nearly all aligned with Chiang Kai Shek.  I do not justify this clause but it is a clause that arose out of an historical context.

It is restrictive but it is their country and their laws and they can restrict as they see fit.  If you wish to proselytize in China, you should be very, very forewarned, particularly in the current environment.

6 years 32 weeks ago
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hamzaben:

Excellent. No I wanted to know particularly if it was requiered under SAFEA standards, if no, this close would have been better in the company code of conduct.

 

 

6 years 32 weeks ago
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icnif77:

'You are hired to teach English, and not any of the religions .... ' ... translation of the clause!

 

Almost every Contract I came across had such stipulation with adding ' ... and should obey and respect Chinese law ...'.

6 years 32 weeks ago
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earthizen:

"The Chinese, or some of them anyway, have very acute memories of the atrocities committed by the Catholic Church in China in the years 1900 to 1949, such as forcing orphan girls into prostitution, or forcing orphans into working in opium producing factories, or simply the abuse of their charges...."

 

What Chinese are you talking about, prc mainlanders?

 

Who taught you the above, CCP and their 'chinese history' books? 

 

Christianity in China dates back to the Tang dynasty, A.D. 8.

 

The Italian Franciscan priest John of Montecorvino arrived in Beijing as early as 1294, and five years later built a church, and in 1305 a second opposite the imperial palace. You think any foreigner group, whatever group that is, can do that?

 

Later on, in 1644, Adam Schall von Bell, a German Jesuit, was appointed Director of the Board of Astronomy by the new Ching dynasty. Jesuits were given posts as mechanics, musicians, painters, instrument makers.....etc. 

 

The relationship between China and Christianity as a religion has been generally benign until the Boxer Rebellion, ie toward the end of the Ching dynasty, when the Boxers started accusing the priests of imperialism and persecuting them.

 

Do you know who were the favorite so-called poet writers of Mao?  The leaders of the Boxer Rebellion. Do you know where the Boxers came from? Most were uneducated peasants, their leaders were thugs from the streets. 

 

How can you tell that?

How many of their so-called poems have you read?

 

Don't you know what the Cultural Revolution does to the remaining few intellectuals in PRC, and the preserved bits and pieces of authentic Chinese history and literature?

 

You are the typical brainwashed wumao by CCP.  Any Chinese scholar in non-mainland PRC can spot that by taking a glance at you what you wrote above.

 

As to why you are so easy to brainwash I will leave that to the psychiatrists.

6 years 32 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

You said it again which means you clearly don't know it's clause not close. So you're here teaching English under a legal contract and visa? BS 

 

Cry Baby MC testing out an escape account? 

 

Try again

 

Oh and by the way, ask a dumb question get responses fitting the question

6 years 32 weeks ago
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6 years 32 weeks ago
 
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I've met a couple of overt religious types....while it's invited by the locals, it's ok. When it's not (such as brought into a classroom) it's bad! I've heard students complain!

Englteachted:

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Seems the OP is a religious nutter

6 years 32 weeks ago
Report Abuse

Marcos_Cisneros:

@Englteachted, never mind the rather petrified and calcified use of the English language on your part .. " a religious nutter", if you were less inclined to vaunt your qualities of retort and more inclined to vaunt your qualities of understanding, you might have actually noticed that this or her question was rather moderate.  The OP raised a very good question, one that occurs rather frequently, but you again, true to your pooh-bah form, simply trashed it.  As I have said many times, your reputation to be charitable proceeds you.

6 years 32 weeks ago
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hamzaben:

@englishteacher  I hope you realize, We are real people behind our computers. I asked for opinions, end up with free insults.

 

Since I expect to see you around in this forum again, a little respect would make this place a better reference for all of us here.

 

 

6 years 32 weeks ago
Report Abuse

Englteachted:

You said it again which means you clearly don't know it's clause not close. So you're here teaching English under a legal contract and visa? BS 

 

Cry Baby MC testing out an escape account? 

 

Try again

 

Oh and by the way, ask a dumb question get responses fitting the question

6 years 32 weeks ago
Report Abuse

Marcos_Cisneros:

@hamzaben, Just igore Englteachted.  He is about as crude a person as there is.  He just does not denigrate you, he denigrates everyone except his little gang of five.  He is what is called a cyberbully.  People have written about him all over the Internet.  He is actually infamous for his behaviour. And ignore his little coterie as well.  They have somehow decided that they are the masters of this board but the truth is elsewhere.  If you look at the traffic on the board over the past several years, since Englteachted and his gang of five have proclaimed themselves the Commissars of this board, the site has practically withered away to nothing.   It is just their neighbourhood redneck bar, full of overweight middle aged white guys with lots of tattoos, so to speak.  And if you look carefully at their usage of the English language, or lack of therewith, you will notice that none are particularly successfully educated. They have pretensions of education but nothing more.  I belong to three China Boards and of the three, this one is the most crass, the most vulgar, the most shoot-out-in-Dodge-City kind of a bar. Raoul's has less traffic but it is far more controlled and none of these foul mouthed creeps would even make it through the front door of Dave's.  So my advice to you is to expect nothing here and whatever you can glean, than you are all the better for it.

6 years 32 weeks ago
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ambivalentmace:

Foreigners find a board they are happy with and usually stick with it, like I used to use Daves, so apparently only a wumao would only be on three boards at one time.

 

If you are on three boards, you may be the only one that does that. interesting though.

6 years 32 weeks ago
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If you can't abide by the contract, don't sign, find another school. 

Stiggs:

Isn't that clause from the standard safea contract? If it is anyone wanting to work legally needs to accept it.

6 years 32 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

Exactly, I can't stand dumb fucks who come here and think that their home countries' laws are in effect here

6 years 32 weeks ago
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Stiggs:

...or the ones who take a job teaching English as a cover for their proselytizing, and instead of teaching them English they're trying to convert them in class and teaching them hymns.

 

It's dishonest and rips off the students and their parents.

6 years 32 weeks ago
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6 years 32 weeks ago
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6 years 32 weeks ago
 
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Whom? Legal, are you versed in Chines law?

Marcos_Cisneros:

Actually, yes, Englteachted.  Sorry that we are all not fire breathing rednecks like you.  Some of us have actually done something with our lives and unlike you, it is not drugs, nor alcohol, nor verbal abuse.  

6 years 32 weeks ago
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Spiderboenz:

"Done something"...

 

Such as hurling abusive harassment on an Internet forum?

6 years 32 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

Dude you claimed you googled me and you call me a redneck???????????????????????????????????????????/ Boy you look really stupid especially to my student who still follows this site

6 years 32 weeks ago
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ambivalentmace:

If Englteachted is a redneck, which is obviously ridiculous, that would make me a second cousin to Satan and Lucifer.

6 years 32 weeks ago
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Marcos_Cisneros:

@ambivalentmace, please do not be generous.  You are not the second cousin to Lucifer.  Au contraire, my good fellow, you are the maximus glutumus of Lucifer in all truth, the font of all things excrementally colored.

6 years 32 weeks ago
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Marcos_Cisneros:

@Englteachted, a redneck is generous.  I regret being generous.  I should think of more ominous terms, perhaps whiskey sodden, retrograde colonialist, a friend of the Mosbey's, perhaps even a cousin of Dorothy.

6 years 32 weeks ago
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ambivalentmace:

thanks for the compliment, next time you see Dorothy and the tin man and dance to it's raining men, say hello to Charlie Brown for me while your doing the shuffle. Don't forget to pass the "poppers' and share the love.

6 years 32 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

My grandparents were from Peru/ Puerto Rico you dumb fuck, I thought you googled me? Maybe Chinese have no clue what rednecks refer to.

6 years 32 weeks ago
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6 years 32 weeks ago
 
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As Stiggs mentioned, it's the standard SAFEA "anti-proselytizing" clause. 

 

Proselytizing is technically illegal in China, 

*edit* You've never seen it on a contract before? Are you a new to China FOB, or have you just never actually read any of your contracts before. This has been in Every. Single. Contract. That. I. Have. Seen. In. China.

Englteachted:

Exactly!!!!!!!!!

6 years 32 weeks ago
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Yes, it's in every contract. ye old foreigners must understand that thou shall not worship any god except the CCP, we are a jealous God and we shall smite thee or exile thee from whence you come if you disobey our almighty God "CCP".

Marcos_Cisneros:

Time for your trip to Bellevue....

6 years 32 weeks ago
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loudvillager:

Marcos, you're onto a good thing. In the old days you would have had to either wear a powdered wig or have your nuts cut off if you wanted to ingratiate yourself with the powers that be.

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Shifu

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I can't blame the Chinese for putting this in a contract. In the 18th & 19th centuries The Europeans committed genocide and exterminated entire cultures in the Western hemisphere in the name of their God. Today many people are being killed while the perpetrators blame their god. Koodos for the Chinese on this one.

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A:  "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "S
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