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Posts: 4

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Q: What is happening with the current visa regulations?

Hey,

 

So recently it came to my attention that the majority of cities have changed their visa policies making it merely impossible for non-native speakers to get an expert's certificate.  Can anyone clarify on that? The information I have been receiving from various sources keeps ensuring me in belief that actually nobody really knows what is going. It seems as cities are eligible of making independent decisions in terms of visa application. 

 

Any other non-natives willing to comment on that? 

 

 

9 years 16 weeks ago in  Visa & Legalities - China

 
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Yep, the rest of the country is following Beijing that now regrets its decision because most foreigners have left the city thus many schools struggle to find FTs and generate less profits leading to lower taxes for the government.

ironman510:

I'm getting drunk on OT these days due to this. Can't find anyone these days.

9 years 16 weeks ago
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laowaigentleman:

But I thought the Chinese government was controlled by wise, highly educated technocrats who spent their entire lives preparing to take up the reigns of state. Now I don't know what to believe anymore... haha

 

Charisma-devoid shoe polish and brylcream wearing chinless wonders.

9 years 16 weeks ago
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9 years 16 weeks ago
 
Posts: 126

Governor

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oh my god which cities are these?

ironman510:

Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Shenzhen and a hand full of other cities according to the Wall Street HR department. All of our centers are having this problem around China.

9 years 16 weeks ago
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9 years 16 weeks ago
 
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I'm (add-it: 'as Non') getting new Working permit and Invitation letter in Kaifeng, Henan. I'm waiting for it in my home 60 days already. My 1st WPermit was in 2011.

School's rep. is telling me, he's very busy with teaching, and he doesn't have time for SAFEA, what is the only reason for delay (for now).

I was asked for Non-criminal Certificate, what is the 1st time since 2009. That's the only new thing, I see.

 

However, Jiangsu SAFEA told me in June 2014, only Native English teachers (can) have granted WPermit for English teaching in coastal cities in China. I had WP in Dalian in 2012.

School in Taizhou, Jiangsu, told me FEC was denied by SAFEA, so I dial them up.

ironman510:

I'm sorry man, its a crock of unfair sh*t

9 years 16 weeks ago
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icnif77:

We signed Contract with Henan School on Sep. 1st, 2014. School rep. told me last week, I'll be probably able to return to China somewhere in Jan. 2015. Just right time for the 2nd Semester.

However, as soon as I return to China (and get new RP), I will ask for the full pay from Sep. 2014, despite I worked only two weeks in whole semester.

 

9 years 16 weeks ago
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royceH:

You're a hardarse, no doubt about that.   Good luck with it.

9 years 16 weeks ago
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icnif77:

I signed Contract with Henan High School on Sep. 1st, 2014. Z visa is delayed, because School didn't have authorization to hire foreigners at the Contract sign, so they burned my valid RP in the process.

School suggested I return home, and wait for 2 docs. for new Z. School paid trip to EU, and they will pay for trip back to Henan.

My all belongings are in the apartment on the School's Campus, and I have keys with me.

That's all OK, buTT...I want to know, if I'm entitled for the full pay from the Contract sign (Sep. 1st), despite I worked less than 20 days?

I'm entitled for the full (4 months) pay (IMO), because if School would tell me I will start to work in 2015 (2nd Semester), I would sign Contract with another School, which (two of them) needed FT immediately.

On the top of all this, I signed Contract as Oral English teacher. Rep. sent me an Alberta Uni's math book 10 days ago, with Q: 'Can you teach out of this book?'. 

Suddenly, I became subject teacher with salary of Oral English teacher.

 

As soon as I return to the School, I will demand 4 months pay, and new Contract probably. If not, I'll look for the Chinese lawyer, and head to the Court!

I'm sick of Chinese BS!

9 years 16 weeks ago
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9 years 16 weeks ago
 
Posts: 2310

Shifu

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How about non-teaching, also falling under this ?

ironman510:

No, IF you're an IT or something like that anyone from almost any country can get a FEC for that job position.

9 years 16 weeks ago
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Nessquick:

nope, I am at technical engineering field

9 years 16 weeks ago
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9 years 16 weeks ago
 
Posts: 35

Governor

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I know a bit about this, as I spend a lot of time in our office gaining more insight:

 

Just recently as of this year, you MUST be a native English speaker in order to gain a WP in EVERY province.

 

Also of note, they're rejecting a lot of 'would be' teachers due to the fact that they do not have two years worth of experience in teaching. You need to provide references but I assume this will be quite easy even if you do not have experience (just forge) as long as you're over the age of 22. I'm not too sure if they look at registered education numbers, they'll probably just shoot your reference an email.

 

Also, you need a TEFL/TOEFL/CELTA/TESOL/PGCE/ETC (+ Degree)... - however, they are looking in to the validity of some 'TEFL (UK) / TESOL (US) certificates only accepting certain licenses. I-to-I was one they will accept, that name kept popping up.

 

My thoughts:

Good Point(Drunk:

Getting people in educated

Not allowing fresh out of college peeps here

 

Bad point(Drunk:

Less teachers, less competition which is not exactly a good thing. There are many good non-native teachers here and without them their will be a lack of people striving to be better at their job.

 

China is becoming a real pain in the ass to work in recently. Visa shiz. Tax is hella lot more, not to mention landlords having to pay tax for foreigners to live in their apartments and wages stagnating in the past few years.

 

 

jaross:

How about FEC and RP renewals?

9 years 16 weeks ago
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Eorthisio:

Good point: Less teachers, less competition, the demand was already exceeding the supply before, now you can probably negotiate the contract and ask 40~50000RMB for 15 classes per week. School doesn't want to? They said no more than 10000RMB? Too bad, good luck finding another foreign teacher, the school next door is also desperate for a FT.

9 years 16 weeks ago
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I help in the hiring department and my CEO has told me to NOT interview anyone that doesn't have a passport from US, NZ, AUS, CAN or British. I asked why? He said: Because the labor department will not give anyone a FEC book becuase now Shenzhen is only hiring true native speakers.
 

Its kind of like you need to ask yourself, Would a Japanese training center in the U.S hire me to be a Japanese teacher just because I can speak Japanese or hire a native Japanese speaker? Of course they will hire the native. That's what China is doing.

Shining_brow:

I'd  hire an experienced and qualified non-native language speaker over someone who is merely a native speaker (as long as the experience includes living in an area for a while where the language was spoken daily)

9 years 16 weeks ago
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Eorthisio:

Any non-native speaker a brain is already out of the ESL game. There is much more money to be made in other fields.

9 years 16 weeks ago
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laowaigentleman:

@ Eo. Perhaps I have no brain, but I am a native speaker and I'd love to get the hell out of esol. Can you help me out?

9 years 16 weeks ago
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ironman510:

Guys we are not being judge mental here, we're only telling the member about the current laws, some people would agree or disagree with a lot of laws around the world.

9 years 16 weeks ago
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9 years 16 weeks ago
 
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Isn't everybody a native speaker???

 

 

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9 years 16 weeks ago
 
Posts: 126

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So Jiangsu province, Beijing, Shenzhen, any other cities that wouldn't hire non-natives?

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9 years 16 weeks ago
 
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Governor

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I am a native speaker & qualified teacher from Aust. And am sick to death about the visa changes this Govt implements indiscriminately.

 

No real thought process involved..eg they recently scrapped the law that after 5 years you must leave China, simply because it was too difficult to monitor..duh!!

 

To officially get a work permit you should have a Bach Deg &TEFL Cert. does that mean(as non native speaker friends of mine have found out) that you can't work in China if you want to teach Pre-school or Primary ESL!? Its a joke

 

I have lived in a couple of different countries, and have never known national work visa laws to change as much as this place. They seem to change all the time. Why?

 

I seriousy beleive these 'leaders"; don't really know what they are doing?!

 

The ones missing out? ~ the Chinese people (all ages) who want to learn English & the many (not all, of cousre ) good teachers who are pissed off or have left.

Don"t get it

laowaigentleman:

Exactly. And teaching high school and university is like teaching primary school in a western country anyway. I have no idea why they have these requirements when they know how thick their people are with their extremely limited attention spans and appreciation of anything more sophisticated than the "music" of the backstreet boys and Justin Bieber.

 

I wish I could simply provide my degree information, have it verified, apply for an x visa and set up my own small business accepting only the students who genuinely care about learning English so they can study in or trade with an English speaking country. I figure if I had about 10 classes of ten and each student paid me 120 in a tier 3 city, 150 in a tier 2 or 200 in a tier 1 then I would earn a reasonable salary and could even pay some business taxes. Hell, I spend my earnings in China, not in my home country.

 

Working for a Z visa at a crap school which takes the lion's share of the money I earn is simply exploitation. My leaders and co-workers speak and write Chinglish, so I can't see why I should be tied to them, it's just lowbrow nationalistic chauvinism. We don't treat Chinese migrants like this at home.

 

When I show up to teach, the stupid kids all start yelling and whining that they want to watch Michael Jackson or basketball montage videos because their view of foreigners is so warped by the political education they receive and their decrepit grandparents don't actually know anything and certainly don't teach their kids proper manners.

 

This is at an elite school, so I'd hate to imagine what it's like in a regular public school.

9 years 16 weeks ago
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Visco8:

Totally agree with Laowei & Peasant. Good points..well made guys

Persoanally think this Govt. wants to get its finger out of it's a*#^hole & start making some rational,sensible policies that will benefit both the people & teachers that are willing to work here. Let's face it folks, it has some good points about it..I know, but we put up with alot of shit that would not happen in other countries!

Despite what the Govt preaches & too many believe, this is still, in many everyday ways...an undeveloped country.

9 years 16 weeks ago
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royceH:

They seem to change all the time. Why?

 
Ok, I'll try.... Is it because they're just a bunch of floggers?
 

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I suspect the Government expect an influx of illegal American teachers now that the 10 year M visa is active.

Give it a few months and you will be tripping over young Americans boasting about their special visas Shock

Visco8:

Or maybe...they are expecting a heap of "ex-pat Chinese" coming back home & want to find jobs as "English teachers" ~ who knows?

9 years 16 weeks ago
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Hotwater:

Yeah but most People here don't want to be taught English by a sea-turtle....they want to be "taught" by a white face. 

9 years 16 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

It will end up as a trade off between America and China. We wont deport your illegals if you dont deport ours. Illegals benefit economies.

9 years 16 weeks ago
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laowaigentleman:

Maybe some of the red royalty who got into Harvard because of their family connections. It will be funny to be able to compete against them and have some westerners who "only" went to New Zealand or Australian universities show up these over-rated lazy clowns and send Harvard's stock tumbling further than it should have done the moment it was revealed that George W Bush went there.

 

They'll all be "working" in banks and holding up the progress of the rest of the country, so the sunlight cure's going to be delayed for at least another generation, sadly.

9 years 16 weeks ago
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royceH:

@Hotwater... No, most people here don't want to be taught English at all.

Bring on the Gaokao changes I say.

 

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That is ridiculous. As someone pointed out, having a native speaker working for your school obviously increases the prestige of the institution per se, but what about those who are still qualified teachers or speak English with native-like fluency?

 

The very new law (introduced just a month or so ago) doesn't take into account the current situation and the needs of the market. There is like 400 million ESL learners throughout China struggling to receive a satisfactory level of education and YES it might be correct to assume that all of them would like to be taught by a teacher who is a NS. However, roughly calculating,  is there enough of those to actually fill all those native-speaker-only-like positions?

 

Since the law has been implemented recently, we may expect to see some results around the beginning of the next semester as he majority of schools won't be able to find enough qualified teachers. 

 

I am tired of these sick regulations changing every couple of months and what's worse lack of clarity and consistency in their enforcement. 

 

Either china will loosen up its visa policy for English teachers or we can witness an absurd situation in a couple of months where the schools suffer from the shortage of qualified teachers, 

 

I have got:

B.A. in English Education

M.A. in TESOL

Working towards my PhD in Applied Linguistics 

TESOL cert

BETC   cert,

Britain's QTS 

over 5 years of Teaching experience at academic level 

 

and yet still.....

 

CAN'T GET A DECENT TEACHING JOB 

laowaigentleman:

And to top it off, they changed the requirements for obtaining a Z visa last year, making it ten times more difficult to make a new application. It is now easier for a qualified teacher to apply in Korea and Japan, two countries which pay much better salaries than China.

 

The only thing keeping me here is my girlfriend. Once she graduates, I'm whisking her the hell out.

 

They can reap what they sow, the greedy, vain and stupid fools.

9 years 16 weeks ago
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royceH:

Mate, impressive credentials.  Good for you.  Surely you could get a job at an International School earning 25,000 a month.

 

@Laowei....you're singing my song!  Go harder!

9 years 16 weeks ago
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ironman510:

Were suffering now.

9 years 16 weeks ago
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Shimetsu:

My credentials are totally useless due to the fact that I am a non-native speaker.  Althoguh certain institutions were wiling to hire me, in majority of cases it is the government to put stop by introducing laws limiting non-native speakers from getting a legal Z visa. 

 

 

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Posts: 4

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I think they might reverse the law to the way it was before in a year or two. Otherwise, soon the schools are gonna get hit by the hammer of dumb regulations. 

laowaigentleman:

It is inevitable, but they need to wait a couple of years to reverse dumb laws so that the lawmakers don't lose face.

9 years 16 weeks ago
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Answer of the DayMORE >>
A:  "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "S
A: "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "Shenzhen agent can connect you with an employer, who's authorized to hire waigouren ... and can sponsor Z visa." It's not like every 10th person you meet in Shenzhen's hood can sponsor work visa ...  The only way to change from student to labourer visa is just a regular way by: 1. Finding an employer, who'll apply for an Invitation letter; 2. Exit China and apply for Z visa in your home country's Chinese embassy; 3. Enter China in 30-days after Z visa was stamped into your travelling instrument ...As I am aware, you won't be able to switch to Working permit by remaining in China....,so make ready for a return to your home .... -- icnif77