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Q: What is the significance of Chinese dominance in mathematics?
60 years ago Britain and the U.S. dominated in international testing of maths. Now the anglophone countries arguably have retarded levels of numeracy considering all have access to education. In the latest extensive tests of maths skills internationally, Shanghai schoolchildren have superior maths skills, even when compared with Singapore. The gap is not small. Historically many analysts believe there is a strong link between the results if these tests and the number of future new international patents awarded in each country.
I do not totally subscribe to the view that Chinese children learn by rote and that test scores are therefore not a good indicator of potential. The harder questions in maths require critical thinking, intelligence and general problem solving ability.
where did the west go wrong? How can we become competitive again? Is learning by rote all bad?
China uses Shanghai math scores to determine their national average. Shanghai has the wealthiest students and arguably the best schools in the country. They do more than learn-by-rote there, and perhaps cheating and corruption is less prevalent. They are the fuerdai who'd rather pay more than have to bother studying in waiguo. China's future pig-faced economic schemers - i mean CCP leaders, are being groomed there. These students receive the best nurture the country has to offer, and perform well as a result. However, they do not represent the average Chinese student, even though China would have us believe so.
If you are still wooed by China's feel-good propaganda statistics after living here so long, you failed. Go back to your home country and stay in your room. Where did the West go wrong with you.
dokken:
Not sure the reason behind the hostility of your answer. I'm interested in the west not china in this instance. Really I could have held Singapore up as an example, it just so happens that Shanghaii is number one. I certainly haven't fallen for any propaganda. Shanghai is a city of 27 million people. So I don't think it is enough just to say that it is the rich part of china. Had they tested in hangzhou or anywhere east coast or Guangdong I doubt results would have been significantly different. They use maths because it is easier to test internationally than other subjects.
The he test is not run by Chinese but by international testers who are experts in trying to build up a general picture and not skewing results. At at the very least it is significant that west no longer dominates this testing. It's not the be all and end all, but I think self analysis, self criticism and trying to fix the problem, is better than saying it is not important or that it is propaganda. Both are lies
coineineagh:
you may be right. i wasn't being hostile, just unable to resist my urge to pun at your expense. it does get on my nerves when people assume the West is doing things "wrong" because we're not on some top10 list: Mao was obsessed with being a major steel producing country and got millions killed with his list-chasing. as a possible explanation, math is considered the most politically safe hard science, and popular with Chinese due to its potential to get into banking and finance. it might be, that Chinese brainpower get funneled into this subject, while the west spreads around the investments into other subjects. The West definitely beats China by allowing people to engage in their passions and interests, while China merely dictates: "If your smarts aren't math-smarts, they're useless."
I guess those who are unable to grasp your question are down voting you...
I will let the question put forth to other members on the main page
Correction: word problems in higher level mathematics applied to real life scenarios require critical thinking and problem solving skills. Rote learning is all you need for plugging in the formula and solving the derivative/integral equation.
You have high-school math tests, which is something is more about training than math abilities. It's hardly ground breaking math, it's 17th to 19th century math with 2 centuries of experience in teaching those. Shanghai shines in those tests, like they would in soccer if lots of kids trained like crazy to play soccer. Shanghai is not the whole of China, and kids with Shanghai's hukou and doing those tests are a minority (100k people in what, 20 millions people city ?!), so it hardly says anything about schooling in China.
Now, we can pick another math-related pissing contest : Fields medals (equivalent to Nobel prize for math) per country and per capita. It's given to people who solved previously unsolved problems, and/or created new mathematical concepts.
http://stats.areppim.com/stats/stats_fieldsxcapita.htm
Does anybody do drama about French math education (best in per capita count with statistical significance) ? Nope. The education system is biased towards math at university level, and there's a pool of researcher in math that breeds itself, by being able to create lots of PhDs in math.
i have been hearing about how bad america is at math, but all the good math students become engineers and get a green card and become americans. germans develop our nuclear bombs, india develops our software and they become americans, we dont need math majors, i have heard this crap for 40 years.
i remember paying an outrageous price for a calculus book and doing better with a schaums outline book and then discovering that nothing has changed in calculus theory since 1913, but you still need to buy a new book for my class so i can get my kick back.
there are so many ceo and billionaires that are math majors that im sure this a real travesty of justice. yeah right
China uses Shanghai math scores to determine their national average. Shanghai has the wealthiest students and arguably the best schools in the country. They do more than learn-by-rote there, and perhaps cheating and corruption is less prevalent. They are the fuerdai who'd rather pay more than have to bother studying in waiguo. China's future pig-faced economic schemers - i mean CCP leaders, are being groomed there. These students receive the best nurture the country has to offer, and perform well as a result. However, they do not represent the average Chinese student, even though China would have us believe so.
If you are still wooed by China's feel-good propaganda statistics after living here so long, you failed. Go back to your home country and stay in your room. Where did the West go wrong with you.
dokken:
Not sure the reason behind the hostility of your answer. I'm interested in the west not china in this instance. Really I could have held Singapore up as an example, it just so happens that Shanghaii is number one. I certainly haven't fallen for any propaganda. Shanghai is a city of 27 million people. So I don't think it is enough just to say that it is the rich part of china. Had they tested in hangzhou or anywhere east coast or Guangdong I doubt results would have been significantly different. They use maths because it is easier to test internationally than other subjects.
The he test is not run by Chinese but by international testers who are experts in trying to build up a general picture and not skewing results. At at the very least it is significant that west no longer dominates this testing. It's not the be all and end all, but I think self analysis, self criticism and trying to fix the problem, is better than saying it is not important or that it is propaganda. Both are lies
coineineagh:
you may be right. i wasn't being hostile, just unable to resist my urge to pun at your expense. it does get on my nerves when people assume the West is doing things "wrong" because we're not on some top10 list: Mao was obsessed with being a major steel producing country and got millions killed with his list-chasing. as a possible explanation, math is considered the most politically safe hard science, and popular with Chinese due to its potential to get into banking and finance. it might be, that Chinese brainpower get funneled into this subject, while the west spreads around the investments into other subjects. The West definitely beats China by allowing people to engage in their passions and interests, while China merely dictates: "If your smarts aren't math-smarts, they're useless."
Disclaimer: not an educator... this is just my uneducated opinion.
This article from last year:
http://www.bbc.com/news/education-26533428
How ironic is this?
My opinion ( UK schools): When I went to school the target was to get a job at the end of it. The entire reason was to get people to a level of knowledge that best suited their abilities and then get them to work to contribute to the greater whole. These days UK schools don't educate for the workplace, they educate to get good scores so the school can get better funding under the school ranking system. Points make prizes: for the school.
Chinese schools and universities have to respond to the wishes of the Government. Government wants another 2 million Engineers, the system delivers. China want's prize winners, they use their massive propaganda machine to implant that desire into parents. They encourage competition... but in China that leads to corruption.
As anyone know knows me will confirm, I am very left wing. But when it comes to education I am very conservative. It is the brightest kids who should be nurtured and given the best society can give for free, no matter what their economic situation. The next brightest should get a good well rounded education mixed with some vocational stuff. The less gifted, the 3 Rs and vocational.
Putting everyone into the same classroom and insisting they are all equal is a waste of time. The bright miss out and the not bright just get confused.
I can't comment on Chinese schools, but for me this whole experiment in "equal intelligence" in UK schools is a failure. They use the wrong method to measure success. They want 90% of pupils getting loads of A+ results. They all come out of school equal, but how on earth are employers supposed to differentiate between them?
I am a firm believer in difficult exams. Scores should reflect ability.
I think that's where the UK education system has gone wrong.
Ha ha... and me a socialist. Well, I do believe in equality. I believe a street cleaner is equal to a Nobel Prize winner. If a street cleaner has a gifted child, that child should be given every opportunity to excel, if a Nobel winner has a not so gifted child,... well, you can figure out what I think.
Yup. So, my opinion. Education has to be connected to a target, and that target is getting the best job that suits your abilities.
The UK has lost the plot on that. China is just getting started 
Hotwater:
My parents were both labour voters though my father was also a card carrying union activist/socialist. I went to one of the old grammer schools against my fathers wishes! My mother wanted the best possible education for me & knew I'd get a better one at the grammer school where you were selected on educational ability, the top 5% from memory. I agree that kids should be educated to the best of their abilities, no matter their background. Grammer schools actually did this for the brighter kids & streaming classes in secondary moderns did it for the levels below. Then at 16 there were technical schools for those who though not gifted in some ways could go & learn a trade, skilled work. This is one area that the UK has messed up & China had it partly right. Give those who struggle to achieve academically an education in things that suit them. Those that didn't quite make the cut for the grammer schools could still shine & go through to do ONC's, HNC's, HND's & even eventually degrees in technical & vocational subjects.
Maths is an interesting one here. For HNC level engineering you used to have to finish at least level 3 Maths, which was A-level standard but taught to be useful. You could even do level 4 which was first year degree level. There were & are still in the UK some of the best time-served Engineers in the world who came up through the vocational route. Far better & rounded Engineers than those who got an Engineers Ng degree straight after school.
And I'm looking at you Scots, & the guys we saw left behind when their jobs were moved out here!
ScotsAlan:
I did not leave anyone behind Mr Hotwater.
The Bankers did. They used every game they could to make your usual run of the mill dude or dudess feel like they were a worthless loser. So the victims stayed at home.
I came here. I said "feck the bankers". It's my job... and I am keeping it.
I was lucky of course, but I had also been taught. I was lucky that I had teachers that recognised my vocational skills and encouraged me to develop them.
I was never PHD material. I had to learn a skill. And that skill is now in demand. Because the ultra left educational system produces clones. They want everyone to have a PHD.. no matter how useless the subject.
It's pointless to judge educational systems on how many and how high the quailification. It should be about how useful the qualification is.
ScotsAlan:
I have 2 granted patents to my name. The payment..... one pound each
1 an 1 an 1 is 3, got to be a joker he just do what he please ~
didnt meet anyone with even standard math skills yet... they are all horrorible in math, even the engineers...
again another stupid question by the way the us won the world math compititon this year
again another stupid question by the way the us won the world math compititon this year
again another stupid question by the way the us won the world math compititon this year
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33735517
Interesting.
