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Q: Why are most people in China so incompetent?
I just got a call from my manager, the new accountant can't transfer my salary in my bank account, it was working perfectly last month and I didn't change anything, it's just a transfer using the ATM from/to the same bank accounts that we use every month, why so many Chinese are utterly useless at jobs they are qualified for?
Usually when a new guy comes in to take over, the outgoing one doesn't handover properly because he is in a hurry to get out. Or the boss wants him out pronto. Poor new guy has to learn everything from scratch. It's no wonder productivity is low.
Eorthisio:
Yeah, that is so selfish, when I quitted my previous jobs I carefully classified essential paperwork and the files on the computer when I had access to one.
BTW the new accountant arrived almost a month ago, she should have had enough time to get ready for employees' pay day, I would understand if she arrived like 2 days ago.
Eorthisio:
Redguard -> No idea, I didn't call anyone else for now, got to check tomorrow.
They lie, it's an excuse to avoid to say: 'We're broke!'. Ask them for the address of SAFEA, and add 'please' in the end of your Q.
Chinese have different work system, than West. Here, all of the 'decisions' go through the boss/leader.
At my last school in Fuk., school needed 2nd FT. I posted once here, how my school 'respect Contract to a T', and somebody contacted me over PM. 'add-it': 'School respected Contract to a t, because FEB told them I'l walk otherwise, as I did in two previous Schools. School changed their matters on the Contract later.'
At the School, there was only one Chinese English teacher with passable English. She never hired or talk to anybody about job before.
I couch her about how it works, when I applied for a job at different schools.
We got his Non-naive CV, and after few days, I suggested to Chinese teacher, School should hear his English pronunciation.
We called the guy by phone, and I asked him few Qs. Chinese teacher was listening his talk. Maybe 3', the longest.
She liked, how the guy sounded, and went to the Principal, and told her, she has contact and CV of 2nd FT for our School.
I don't know, what they were talking, but poor girl (50Y old with family in the city) was sent to another school, some 50km away from Fuk.
She could come back to Fuk. only on weekends. She told me, she must share room with two other Chinese teachers, without teli.
She was punished, because she showed to Principal, she was 'better' than her, or similar nonsense. Face thingy: Principal lost her face, because 50Y old teacher got another FT (with my help).
In normal world, Principal wouldn't be offended 'add-it': but happy. School paid 8000 Rmb for my placement to the agent. We got new FT for free, and principal should be happy, 'cause she saved money, buTT 'face' is more important'.
So I'm guessing, in China one doesn't think, but 'let our leader think for you, and follow'!
it's because people are used to crap. When you feed pigs crap they shit crap.
Scandinavian:
nah, I try to stay out of my MILs business..... ah the move, yes I did.
I am actually paraphrasing what a European agricultural minister said about food quality
It's called efficiency with Chinese characteristics 
.
I believe it's simply because jobs are nothing more than a time waster for many Chinese. No need to care about getting anything done or actually doing a good job. These things are of little consequence for many Chinese "workers".
Yeah, the answer is pretty simple. Because Chinese don't care... they know they are stuck and it pisses them off.
Chinese have issues with complacence in the work place (extremely quick). I will tell you THIS! When I lived in Canada, I always heard... "be like the Chinese, they work so hard... study to hard... they get up at like 5AM and finished work/school at like 11pm"
And that is somewhat true. However, what they conveniently FAILED to tell me was...
- Chinese work long hours, but spend most of those hours doing nothing (movies, etc.)
- Chinese children study hard but learn and retain very little information
- It totally destroys their social skills and self exploration
- This is a form of control (babysitting for the kids, and control for employers)
- Asia is the continent with the highest rate of suicides (I wonder why...)
Yeah, I was lied to... big time.
Scandinavian:
Luckily China's suicide rates are dropping, even though they are skyrocketing among "Middle to top level officials and SOE managers"
1) Very poor training/education, or even non existing for handicrafts.
2) For many craft, there are no regulations, or they are never regularly and consistently enforced
3) Appearance over substance
4) Management practices, where nobody is trusted and information are not shared
5) No sense of duty, beyond personal enrichment (being money or knowledge)
I agree with the first sentence of what icnif said. I'm guessing they didn't have trouble paying into the locals' accounts? So, it's just a face-saving way to say "we didn't have enough money to pay everyone, so the locals get paid first." My company's finance department has used this excuse ad infinitum (same lady, and same damn bank account for the last 4 years). So, I've just gotten used to the fact that payday can range anywhere from the 1st of the month to the middle (latest so far has been on the 17th....must've been a bad month for business!).
One more thing I haven't seen mentioned is how people here chose their university major.
When I was studying in China I used to talk to a lot of the Chinese students. Of course I'd ask them their major, and then to break the ice I'd ask them why they chose that major. The single biggest reason was a variation of this:
"My mom/parents told me to chose this major" no interest in the subject, no desire to know more, just parental pressure. No wonder they don't give a shit about their work, or their field.
Out of maybe 100 Chinese students I talked to, all but 5 gave the parental reason.
2 Students chose based on their interest
2 Students chose the university first, and then whatever major the university accepted
1 Student because of her own long term career plans
Scandinavian:
Yup. Most Chinese I know simply have no good answer for their choices other than it's the family that "encouraged" them. I had dinner with my wifes boss and her family. After 30 seconds at the table it was clear to me that the dinner was actually English training for their teenage girl. So I spent the time talking to this girl, she was going to study some nerdy stuff, she seems completely passionless about
I finally got paid and it took a lot of hassle, me threatening them to quit, and so on. Not sure what's going on as different people told contradictory stories, also other foreigners didn't get paid yet as they have not been as insisting as I am, but I suspect that some of you are right about the "way to tell that they are broke", the owner is spending money like there is no tomorrow, he basically has a new car every month and rarely shows up to run anything.
When I arrived this morning I sat down at my desk and didn't start anything, as it is the norm to be a wanker in China it took them almost an hour to notice that something was wrong. When they asked me I told them: "No pay, no work.". Of course they tried to make some excuses but it didn't take with me as I have been in China long enough and when I threatened them to quit the money was on my account in the next 10 minutes (I received the text from the bank).
I will quit anyway, my RP isn't tied to them and I got a better job offer.
icnif77:
Your saying is similar to mine: 'if I can't shower and shave, I don't come to the class/school'
.
In Fuk. I was 10 days without running water, because School didn't pay utility bill.
They called me as 'why you didn't come for the classes?'.....
laowaigentleman:
How easy is it to move on? I thought visas were tied to your employment contract. My employers are always dicking me around with idle threats. It seems Chinese bosses don't feel adequate unless they're making a load of idiotic rules for their workers to follow and nagging them about inane, inconsequential banalities.
They think I am paid too much, but they signed the contract. They promised me pay increases etc. too. I am sure they'll try to get out of paying for my flight back to New Zealand as well.
They are called the elite school of Shijiazhuang. When I read or hear that title I think of what PG Wodehouse said about Upper Silesia.
I would say the 2 main reasons are spelled guanxi and training.
Most administrators and people who generally have some possibility of helping foreign teachers and workers in China get their job through guan xi or connections. So at least in the education sector these people are usually pretty much worthless.
It also seems that they usually get no training or information whatsoever before starting the job. If they do this must have been promptly forgotten so as to have no clue what they are doing by the time they start. A few years later they have figured out the basics but by then it is time for a replacement...
Holy hell. They were one day late with salary and you threatened to quit and refused to work?
No wonder schools screw people over all the time. They probably feel that teachers are nags who dont care about the job. Just the money.
mike695ca:
Just saying. You may think you won and stuck it to the man but the reality is probably way off. The owner sure as shit didnt rush to the bank out of fear. He made some poor financial lady transfer her life savings to you so youd stop bitching.
icnif77:
Did you ever come late or miss a day at your job? What did your boss say to you?
mike695ca:
@icnff to be honest , this website makes me feel very very lucky to have the bosses i have had. Shit happens, sometimes to their banks, sometimes in my life and i have never had someone get pissed at me for missing a day. Never had them.take my salary or mention anything. But i have always tried to be responsible and take my work seriously. Teacher or otherwise. And my employers recognized this.
icnif77:
That's excellent! I respect Contract, and perform what I was hired for. I demand, School keeps their part too!
It's not, that I complain a lot. I usually ask 'what happened?', and 2nd time, I'm up in the air.
I missed 3 days classes (in Dalian) in my 5Y in China, because I was 'dead' sick. Flu, which happened rarely, same as any other illness. I called in as' I'm sick! I have a flu! Should I see the doctor, and which Hospital should I go?'
School replied: 'No, you don't need to see a doctor. Come to the School (for 'show')!
OK, after 1/2 hour at School, I was let to return home.
Or other part I wrote above about 'no shower & shave', what was at my next School in Fuk.
My bosses are not as nice as yours! If they would be, I would be nicer too.
I didn't meet nice boss in China, yet!
mike695ca:
You sound pretty reasonable. And anyone would be pissed if theu didnt have water for days on end too. I wasnt referring to you. Just the OP. His post was made a day ago and he said they JUST called him and told him they couldnt pay him. Then today he posts again that he refused work. Thats a little extreme in my books.
icnif77:
Sometimes, I see 'misunderstandings' in written text/replies on Internet! I'm at the end! I can't take this abuse anymore!
I'm thinking, my biggest 'failure' in China is 'I behave like a pro'. It's my nature. Doesn't matter what I do, I do it 'all the way'! I can't give School 'backhand', and perform shitty class! I'd rather walk away.
Eorthisio:
I am not working in a school. By paying me late they broke the contract, if one day I choose to not show up without a good excuse they won't hesitate to cut my salary. If they want me (us, foreigners) to do our job as it should be done, they must to theirs as such.
Hey my school which charges 60,000 RMB a year per student, just refused to pay me a 300RMB food stipend for a two week course in another city...
...reason why?
We paid for your hotel...
...Guys you made me go to south china for two weeks from Harbin, offer no extra pay, and think that you got me a hotel is a FAVOR?
...My father works in aviation, and can take my mom to the radison on the company dime, and I want my chao fan free and they got pissed off....?
icnif77:
'Penny pinching', because 'all laowai have high salaries'!
I'm sick of it! Ask about anything, before you agree to take a job. They'll negotiate you to death.
mike695ca:
My last teaching gig ( web) paid me my full bonus after i quit the job 3 months before my contract ended. We obviously left on good terms but from my experience even "crappy" companies like web will treat people right that deserve it. Ive never been nickel and dimed because i have never given anyone cause too. Obviously ive been uber lucky but...... Theres gotta be a correlation somewhere in there. Perhaps because ive never been anal about my contract??? I remember the salary and thats about it. So ive never thrown my contract in anyones face when theu asked me to do something. Perhaps thats why. I dont know
RiriRiri:
I've always been well treated too in all the jobs I ever had, but honestly it's not all about the degree of professionalism.
In my experience, it's also about character, how you set things up at the beginning and overall if you feel like someone that can be fucked with. Beyond professional performance, it's also about attitude.
Inspiring respect isn't for everyone. Not everyone has that. And TBH it's a little game that eventually gets old. I like human contacts more than I enjoy dog sniffing.
Chinese teacher booked ticket online 'Beijing -London return' for me in January for Spring Festival recess. However, she didn't know when is the beginning of the Semester in February, so I asked her: 'When did you start with classes last year in new semester?'
I told her to book return to Beijing 10 days earlier. I was in Fuk. a week before start of (last year's) semester.
However, next Mon. (when semester should start), I didn't receive call from the School with new schedule. I called in, and they told me, my classes will star 'next Monday', or week later than last year. OK!
I was working only two weeks in Feb!
Contract state, I will receive two 1/2 salaries (4000 Rmb), one for each recess.
For Feb.'s salary I received only 4000 Rmb, what was the 3rd half salary. I demanded full pay for Feb. School didn't want to hear about it, 'because you worked only 14 days in February'!
I 'let the dogs out of the leash', and called SAFEA, which made School pay full salary for Feb.
If School would tell me in January, I will start with classes in 2nd half of Feb., I would still return to Fuk. a week earlier than beginning, but I would never asked for full salary in Feb., despite that was against the Contract.
Am I unreasonable? I don't think so!
There were 3 other FT with the same Contract in Fuk.: 2 Yanks and Ozz. teacher. They all received 1/2 pay for Feb.
Eorthisio:
Chinese employers agree with contracts that they always break. When they do so "it's alright, don't complain", when you as a foreigner do the same you are in big troubles. Chinese don't understand that a contract must be respected by both parties. If they do respect their part, I respect mine. If they don't respect their part, I will certainly not respect mine.
icnif77:
They keep 'negotiate' in their life for anything! They planned my classes for half of Feb., and not for 3 weeks as Chinese teachers, or beginning of the Semester.
My '7-days earlier' turned to '14-days earlier' return. I could stay in EU longer, what would also be great. I don't care, when do you want to start, but you must tell me earlier!
School in Fuk. was on Gov. grants. FTs in Fuk. received aprox. 2/3 of the grants, rest stayed in the School's budget, and as I told to other FTs 'it's none of your business'.
It is the same, when they get me that way, I didn't complain. BuTT......'you'll pay me by the book!' When I'm pissed, my brain goes in overtime! O2,o2 'add-it': For next Mon. classes, they called me 1.5 h before start of my first class. I was planning to go to Urumqi, to see 'my' CMB banker. 1/2 hour before call, I ate tuna fish with tone of garlic. I love garlic, but I stay away, when I must go to the classroom. So, I came to the office 1/2 h before my class as usual. After 10' in the office, Principal came in the office in a hurry. She never did that, I (we) always went to see her. They weren't sure if I'm drunk, because of my garlic smelly breath, so they called the boss for the 'final decision'. LOL
My Hong Kong/Taiwan/other clients usually pay upfront or at least way ahead of agreed deadline.
My PRC clients always need about half an hour of explaining that any delay won't happen twice (they also need lectures about the curbs quality delivery/time needed, about the fact I don't pick-up the phone at night and the fact I'm won't accept random requests just because the boss feels he know better than I do). And yet half of them still don't pay on time. It's a routine. Just stop treating people like adults.
Guanxi. I'm never paid on time either. Apparently Chinese accountants get a kick out of making everyone wait for their money.
It is possible that they're colluding with loan sharks, forcing their employees to take out loans to make ends meet. I wouldn't put that beyond them, so perhaps they're not incompetent, just sociopathic and self-righteous.
If you went through their education you probably would be like that too.
There should be a game show for expats in China, where different locals are introduced to a laowai panel, and the players have to decide if they are lazy morons, or conniving sociopaths.
Guess wrong, and that person wastes a few thousand Kuai of your money and countless hours of your time. Guess right, and find out that the person will still waste a few thousand Kuai of your money and countless hours of your time. This is China, and you are a rich foreigner who wouldn't miss the money anyway, am I right?
