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Q: Why are people so angry on here?
Is China really that bad, or are there mainly people who are naturally hateful on here? I honestly don't know why I am asking this question on here. Probably just get more people answering me stating how much China sucks.
So if I could just find one real person on here that can give me the good with the bad, instead of just spouting out hate from their pie-hole; that would be great. Or, maybe a website with good info.
Thank you
I'll start from the beginning.
Why are people so angry on here?
They're not. They just call a spade a spade, and a kid pooping on the sidewalk a kid pooping on the sidewalk. It's difficult to address public defecation, cancer-causing dust, unscrupulous bosses, violent nationalism and guys staring at your dick in the changeroom in a positive manner.
Is China really that bad, or are there mainly people who are naturally hateful on here?
We live in an environment with a lot of negative phenomena. If you disagree with someone's assessment of China's moronic drinking culture, fat bosses molesting KTV girls, food poisoning, the Tiananmen Square massacre or Chinese boys' hairstyles, please chime in with your opinion.
Remember that you need to get your Question-to-Answer ratio up to about 1:20 to appear legit. Currently it is 1:2 which may be a laziness record for wumao.
Probably just get more people answering me stating how much China sucks.
China sucks.
But how much?
A lot.
So if I could find one real person on here that can give me the good with the bad, instead of just spouting out hate from their pie-hole; that would be great.
Pie-hole is an American colloquialism. Did you even read this article addressed specifically to you? [sigh] I'm totally unappreciated in my time.
If I could find one real person...
That's interesting, in that you are not a real person. Remind us again: Where in "America" are you from? How goes that big snake you claim to have? Do you realise the Freudian connotations of claiming you have a big snake?
People who will give you the "good":
ScotsAlan (Loves Communism)
Scandinavian (Loves his mother-in-law)
Philbravery (Loves sex in China; struggling with visa restrictions though)
Cub (Loves Vicky; thinks he will get laid; is mistaken)
Samsara (Loves sticky rice; I grant you this is not a major endorsement of the Chinese state)
Or, maybe a website with good info.
Best website I've found for China discussion
Thank you
Always a pleasure
Taiwan is #1!
cub:
samsara, if u cant stand china or u dont like china the culture the people Or how imperfect china is how about LEAVE, MOVE GET, OUT OF DODGE???????????????
GarrettAbbott:
I can understand the anger about shit on the sidewalk, cancer-causing dust, unscrupulous bosses, violent nationalism and gay sex, but we can find this in any shithole town in any country (U.S., Germany, Afghanistan, Korea, etc.). Not really a reason to attack someone every chance you get. I am just trying to find out if it is worth it. Right now I teach math in a meth infested town. I am lucky to live on the outskirts of town, but as we know, that stuff makes it way out, and we are starting to see problems here out in the country. As a kid surrounded by meth and child molesters around every corner; I was not planning on raising my daughter here.
That leads into your second response. It seem to be negative everywhere, and people are saying just wait it out, it will get better. This may be true, but I would like to weigh all my options and limiting myself to one county is not enough. Granted I am not crazy about fat bosses molesting KTV girls, but we have tweeker here that I am sure are not much better. Not much on the hairstyles either.
I never heard the 1:20 ratio before, but I will try to keep that in mind now.
China suck a lot then. I hate hearing that, and am probably trying to find some light somewhere. Sad as it seems, I think California sucks, but I know there are people out there that will talk it up. Much like I am hoping to find here talking about China.
Pie-hole is more polite then what I wanted to write, and yes Americans do use that in their writing if in is not considered professional writing. This is just a site to ask questions and check things out. It is not like I am look for a job blogging, and I did not read that article until you brought it to my attention. Thanks for adding a new term to my vocabulary. I did not know what a wumao was until now. Plus you speak of colloquialism then sigh in your writing, confusing.
Again if you must know I am from California. I have a Rosy Boa as a pet so get your mind out of the gutter (and you complain about guys checking you out?). She is about 2 ft. long or if you prefer about 65 cm., and I am sure Sigmund would be more concerned with how you related that to your perverse universe.
Your list of people seem a little misplaced as to what I am looking for, though I do like sticky rice, and you link just leads me back to echinacities (not sure if that was intentional, but I am guessing it was).
Thank you
For proving that, yes some people like being a dick. Also thanks for some good info.
Why do you say Taiwan is #1?
Samsara:
Taiwan's #1 status is self-evident.
Oh no. Samsara has "hurt the feelings of the Chinese people."
RandomGuy:
Violent nationalism is the natural reaction of Chinese guys after staring at the laowai's dick.
Insecurity is loud, confidence is silent 
Hulk:
I can just see all wumao tears as a result of this post.
"Laowai, get the FUCK out of China!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
glydwelle:
I think the easiest way to see that you are either not American born or even an American Garrett(or whatever your real name is) is the fact that when it comes to Americans and California. You use words like there and them to refer to Americans and America. When we talk about ourselves, Americans will say WE and not THEY. If you are going to pretend, you have to commit to a role and not play just the tip.
cub:
samsara read the part from garrett about getting your mind out of the gutter! Did u read an/or understand that part? Wow samsara u can know what others are thinking now? I guess the thought police do exist
GarrettAbbott:
glydwelle
I can already tell that no matter what I say, you are not going to believe that I am from Redding, California. You and Trump should hang out.
MissA:
MissA: loves Xinjiang food (hmmmmm, maybe not a ringing endorsement...)
I'll start from the beginning.
Why are people so angry on here?
They're not. They just call a spade a spade, and a kid pooping on the sidewalk a kid pooping on the sidewalk. It's difficult to address public defecation, cancer-causing dust, unscrupulous bosses, violent nationalism and guys staring at your dick in the changeroom in a positive manner.
Is China really that bad, or are there mainly people who are naturally hateful on here?
We live in an environment with a lot of negative phenomena. If you disagree with someone's assessment of China's moronic drinking culture, fat bosses molesting KTV girls, food poisoning, the Tiananmen Square massacre or Chinese boys' hairstyles, please chime in with your opinion.
Remember that you need to get your Question-to-Answer ratio up to about 1:20 to appear legit. Currently it is 1:2 which may be a laziness record for wumao.
Probably just get more people answering me stating how much China sucks.
China sucks.
But how much?
A lot.
So if I could find one real person on here that can give me the good with the bad, instead of just spouting out hate from their pie-hole; that would be great.
Pie-hole is an American colloquialism. Did you even read this article addressed specifically to you? [sigh] I'm totally unappreciated in my time.
If I could find one real person...
That's interesting, in that you are not a real person. Remind us again: Where in "America" are you from? How goes that big snake you claim to have? Do you realise the Freudian connotations of claiming you have a big snake?
People who will give you the "good":
ScotsAlan (Loves Communism)
Scandinavian (Loves his mother-in-law)
Philbravery (Loves sex in China; struggling with visa restrictions though)
Cub (Loves Vicky; thinks he will get laid; is mistaken)
Samsara (Loves sticky rice; I grant you this is not a major endorsement of the Chinese state)
Or, maybe a website with good info.
Best website I've found for China discussion
Thank you
Always a pleasure
Taiwan is #1!
cub:
samsara, if u cant stand china or u dont like china the culture the people Or how imperfect china is how about LEAVE, MOVE GET, OUT OF DODGE???????????????
GarrettAbbott:
I can understand the anger about shit on the sidewalk, cancer-causing dust, unscrupulous bosses, violent nationalism and gay sex, but we can find this in any shithole town in any country (U.S., Germany, Afghanistan, Korea, etc.). Not really a reason to attack someone every chance you get. I am just trying to find out if it is worth it. Right now I teach math in a meth infested town. I am lucky to live on the outskirts of town, but as we know, that stuff makes it way out, and we are starting to see problems here out in the country. As a kid surrounded by meth and child molesters around every corner; I was not planning on raising my daughter here.
That leads into your second response. It seem to be negative everywhere, and people are saying just wait it out, it will get better. This may be true, but I would like to weigh all my options and limiting myself to one county is not enough. Granted I am not crazy about fat bosses molesting KTV girls, but we have tweeker here that I am sure are not much better. Not much on the hairstyles either.
I never heard the 1:20 ratio before, but I will try to keep that in mind now.
China suck a lot then. I hate hearing that, and am probably trying to find some light somewhere. Sad as it seems, I think California sucks, but I know there are people out there that will talk it up. Much like I am hoping to find here talking about China.
Pie-hole is more polite then what I wanted to write, and yes Americans do use that in their writing if in is not considered professional writing. This is just a site to ask questions and check things out. It is not like I am look for a job blogging, and I did not read that article until you brought it to my attention. Thanks for adding a new term to my vocabulary. I did not know what a wumao was until now. Plus you speak of colloquialism then sigh in your writing, confusing.
Again if you must know I am from California. I have a Rosy Boa as a pet so get your mind out of the gutter (and you complain about guys checking you out?). She is about 2 ft. long or if you prefer about 65 cm., and I am sure Sigmund would be more concerned with how you related that to your perverse universe.
Your list of people seem a little misplaced as to what I am looking for, though I do like sticky rice, and you link just leads me back to echinacities (not sure if that was intentional, but I am guessing it was).
Thank you
For proving that, yes some people like being a dick. Also thanks for some good info.
Why do you say Taiwan is #1?
Samsara:
Taiwan's #1 status is self-evident.
Oh no. Samsara has "hurt the feelings of the Chinese people."
RandomGuy:
Violent nationalism is the natural reaction of Chinese guys after staring at the laowai's dick.
Insecurity is loud, confidence is silent
Hulk:
I can just see all wumao tears as a result of this post.
"Laowai, get the FUCK out of China!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
glydwelle:
I think the easiest way to see that you are either not American born or even an American Garrett(or whatever your real name is) is the fact that when it comes to Americans and California. You use words like there and them to refer to Americans and America. When we talk about ourselves, Americans will say WE and not THEY. If you are going to pretend, you have to commit to a role and not play just the tip.
cub:
samsara read the part from garrett about getting your mind out of the gutter! Did u read an/or understand that part? Wow samsara u can know what others are thinking now? I guess the thought police do exist
GarrettAbbott:
glydwelle
I can already tell that no matter what I say, you are not going to believe that I am from Redding, California. You and Trump should hang out.
MissA:
MissA: loves Xinjiang food (hmmmmm, maybe not a ringing endorsement...)
I used to be So Happy! But then I seen that scummy hag toe-sucking bitch Julie Andrews running around talking about how a 'Spoonful of Sugar helps blah, blah, blah',,, and I began my downhill slide which became irrevocably the dominant part of my psyche when I had to see her prancing about in the Alps singing some bullshit about how 'the Hills are alive with blah, blah, blah' beyotch makes me wanna drop a serious nuke on her! she can take her fkn hill and stuff it up her prancing ass!!
cub:
diverdude how about taking more anger management classes? Clearly u need more help dude!
diverdude1:
I just watched that movie Anger Management a few nights ago. seriously laughing until can't catch breath! yeah, Sandler makes lame movies,,,, but just sooooo stupidly funny!! lmfao! when he gets tazed on the plane!!! damn!! soooo fkn funny!!
royceH:
I've always really liked Julie Andrews a lot. She's definitely on my list. And I can't understand why you're disparaging her so. As a matter of fact I'm about even money to get pissed tonight and finish up watching The Sound of Music. That or Mamma Mia. Don't have Mary Poppins, and hardly a week goes past when I'm not disappointed about that.
The Good:
- If you are struggling to pay your bills back home, there are jobs here that will provide free furnished accommodation of reasonable standard with paid utilities.
- If you are struggling for a job back home, there are employers here that will take just about anybody.
- If you are an attention seeker, you can get plenty of that here especially if you like false platitudes.
- If you are young with not a lot to do, there are still some places in China worth visiting.
- It is still possible to save a little each month on a low salary here but that is becoming less by the year.
- If you want a job where nobody really cares how good or bad you are as long as you turn up, that can be found here.
- Occasional free meal and more insincere platitudes.
- Some things still remain cheaper than the west as long as you aren't particularly bothered about quality and/or safety.
- There are plenty of opportunities to find a wife here but be careful of what often lies below the visual appearance and attraction.
- The new bullet trains are quite efficient and public transport is cheap compared with most western countries.
- China makes people more cynical and untrusting which can actually be of benefit when returning home. Scammers exist in every global location but China will teach you a 1000 ways to combat them in future.
The Bad:
Sorry but Leo Tolstoy had more time on his hands than I have. I will let others go through the bad points.
The answer is simple. Every expat in every country needs to blow off steam....periodic frustration is part of living in another country. Yes even Freedom Land.
BCDs or bad china days happen to everyone from time to time and a forum is a good place to vent rather than punching someone.
By the way, cub has admitted he corresponds with IS and provides a service for would-be jihadis called Cub's IS Glory Hole. It relieves their stress whilst training in the militia camp near his trailer park.
iWolf:
Sorry mate, I'm not going to wade through cub's turgid dribble to find it. Feel free to search yourself....it is there.
cub:
yes wolfturd, if u didnt have bad luck u would have any luck at all right? U been reading those dime novels much? Again wolfturd u dont know anything!
iWolf:
I may not know much but I know you give free blowjobs to your IS buddies. At least your mum charges a dollar.
cub:
again wolfturd u have no idea what u are talking about by making up lies right? And u dont know anything What garrett just asked u are one of the few whom he is talking about why people are so angry here on ECC All that hate and anger u have inside u will be the death of u someday!
Lord_hanson:
Cub you are a bad Christian, prideful and not willing to turn the other cheek. Such actions will lead you on the road to hell.
cub:
hanson can u give me chapter and verse to the phrase tun the other cheek in the bible without taking it out of context? Me pridefull? Does telling the truth make a person proud? BTW BOTH CHEEKS are sore! And show me when not turning the other cheek will take me to hell chapter and verse can u"? Have u seen me use profanity here on ECC like u have? Making up stories about me and spreading gossip by others isnt that called ''bearing false witness? And accusing the brethren and how about who casts the first stone?
Spiderboenz:
From the Sermon on the Mount
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.
30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
cub:
ok hanson i have told u before i turned the cheeks and now both are sore! Dont preach to me ok? Start preaching to wolf thats where the profanity and hate comes from and acusing me of anything spreading gossip Seriously after reading your take that u doubt in creation and that God is not real heaven or hell and a soul isnt real that the bible isnt Gods word Basicaly doubting God and his word[the bible] Do u believe the bible contradicts itself?, sorry but u have no room to talk when u are guilty of sin yourself ok? Are u born again and saved? Have u asked Jesus to save u from sin turn away from sin hanson? Do u believe Jesus died on the cross and he is alive and hes Gods son? Do u believe satan and sin and hell is real and man unsaved will go to hell? Did I say I hated anyone here and wished they would go to hell? No I haven't To answer these questions a simple yes or no will suffice
cub:
hey wolfturd Jesus still loves u despite your flaws and imperfections [there are many]
cub:
Hey spider Did u know satan knows the bible? Satan can even quote scriptures too! Isnt that amazing?
The people in China do not behave normally towards foreigners.
But they believe they are the epitome of hospitality.
It frustrates expats, as was the intention of the people who single us out. However, instead of lashing out angrily in public at our mistreatment, we comiserate online. China wants us to lose our cool, but we save it for online ranting.
You must understand: when a foreigner speaks up about anything to a Chinese person, it is always impolite.
If he speaks perfect audible Chinese, people still won't understand him.
Even if he has a Chinese partner to repeatwhat he said, he is still wrong. Always wrong, no why.
Chinese are of course, always right. No why.
Chinese criminals obey the law, yet we are wrong somehow.
Chinese scammers are honest businessmen, and we are wrong.
Chinese harassment is always a 'misunderstanding'. And the foreigner was wrong.
It's called a double standard, when people treat you worse than others based on race or nationality, which is not relevant.
Did you know, light skinned Chinese from wealthy families are clever, kind, virtuous, sophisticated, profound and friendly. Justby looking at them, Chinese know this. No amount of public defecating, stealing, rudeness or selfishness can detract from their obvious virtue.
But those pesky foreigners confuse the issue with phrases like:"if you put lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig."
coineineagh:
So, you're uncertain what my definition of normal is, but didn't want to continue reading. You made an issue about dismissing my answer by declaring you didn't read it. Are you randomly testing your predictive abilities for personal practice, or to make yourself look wise? Because commenting about something you didn't care to read comes across as stupid. Why did you even comment at all? I don't say anything if I'm not interested in zomething.
Janosik:
I also disagree with your definition of 'normal' as you presented it in your examples. Nothing wrong with definition as such - you may define anything as you wish. But the sweeping generalizations you used cannot be true and any sensible person should be aware of that. Are there any scammers in China? Of course, many! Do majority of Chinese call them decent businessmen? How did you come to such a nonsense? And your other examples are not a lot better ... Probably this is what OP had in mind when posting this question.
coineineagh:
banks have ridiculous double standards. there are special rules for foreigners, for western union, for bank transfers and online banking. and if you meet the wrong bank worker (either lazy or hostile), you get a meiyou even if it is against the rules. and if you try to complain, everyone follows suit and defends the illegal decision. the only way to get what you want is to trick them into believing you don't actually want it. i was actually *offered* online banking when i opened my account. but when i later said i needed it; stonewall. this practice would be a clear violation of customer rights, but if you go to police about it, they will laugh at the foreigner's misfortune and call the bank legitimate and respectable. if you go to court, they pretend to take you seriously until they have your money, then laugh. Oh, and you were wrong all along, stupid foreigner. Entirely normal treatment.
Janosik:
Then you probably really had a bit of bad luck because for instance China Merchant Bank is forcing to use their online banking and I always have to resist, being used to old fashioned traditional way ...
On this forum there is probably over 50 years combined experience of non-Chinese living and working in China on this forum.
Men, women, American, British, Kiwi's, Aussies, Paddies, Canucks, Europeans of every shape, single, married, childless, parents.
We have experienced the good, the bad and the ugly of China.
People on this forum don't have to help each other, but they do.
They commiserate, they celebrate, they support each other.
Also on this forum are the Spammers, the trolls, the wumao's, the narcissists, the retarded. CNY is a prime time for these as there are 1,000's of bored students who don't want to watch the tedious Chinese TV programms, or want to take a break from their online games.
just yesterday a spammer took on a new alias to do his thing (again) 
they post their questions that are obviously flaky, or designed to incite or inflame.
They post questions that would have been quicker had they used a search engine -
They discount and ridicule the knowledge and experience of the very people they are asking questions from.
They post 'test' questions and get upset when they are called out as unreliable.
It is this group that clog up this otherwise (formerly) useful site with their dross, thereby annoying people who may want some real information.
For example: in the past there have been posters asking
http://answers.echinacities.com/question/give-me-some-idea-get-teacher-job-china
People here are not under ANY obligation to help, but they do.
Angry?
Maybe you would be too after a few years in this country and when people who have never been to China get offended by some harsh truths.
as has been said before, better to let off steam online rather than be punched out by a 'patriotic' bunch of Chinese guys (yes, they prefer to fight in a pack when there is only 1 or 2 foreign guys)
Some of your previous questions have got very reasonable replies.
ScotsAlan even offered you and your family a place to stay should you decide to visit China to test the waters.
People here are not under ANY obligation to help, but they do.
philbravery:
Hey Sorrel i was reading some old posts and realized we met on Sex in China on a 30 day visa happy valentine's day for Sunday
sorrel:
@Phil,
how is that thread doing?
maybe some more promotion is in order to balance the gems of comments that seem to be the norm these days.
I don't think the people on here are a hateful bunch, though I often find the treatment of Vicki, who I've not personally known to make any inflammatory posts, to be undeservedly negative. Otherwise it's mostly just venting. Being a foreigner in China is not without its pressures, and those pressures can colour ones perception of their experience, but whatever that perception or interpretation of experience may be we all have a right to express it, good or bad. For my part I'm far more likely to come on here and say some cunt cut me up in traffic and I'd like to neuter the bastard than say I met some lovely people in the park who spent the afternoon playing with my kids. That's just the way people are. Don't get me wrong, there are one or two who just keep singing the same tired old song and never have a good thing to say at all, but then that's their right too. If a person stays in what they perceive to be a negative situation and does nothing about it but complain that person must surely be the very definition of a loser. Just don't read their posts, eh?
yeah you're spot on. i've made this comment before. these people are generally aware that they are very angry people. they do little to reign it in. not all websites are like this. this website is particularly infested by wierdos. i don't think they are representative of the expat community, thank god.
A honest view of China.
The Good:
-China is like the perfect country for lazy foreigners like me.
-Easy to get around, public transportation is efficient and fast.
-Food is great so long you don't ask where the oil comes from.
-Easy to do business, easy to dodge taxes, easy to get away with it.
-Marry a rich Chinese girl and you never have to worry about money ever again.
-Plus even super rich Chinese girls are very down to earth and good wives.
-Chinese guys are relatively friendly, except for a handful of frustrated virgins.
-Buying stuff online, getting it delivered by kuaidi, fast, cheap and reliable.
-Food delivery is amazing, choices are virtually unlimited, and very cheap.
-Petty crime in the streets is virtually non existent, even at night you are safe.
The Bad:
-Lack of hygiene standards still prevail for most Chinese, people stink, literally.
-Products and food are substandard, enjoy laduzi and stuff breaking up.
-Pollution is worsening, will keep getting worse until 2030 government said.
-Many Chinese still hold backward beliefs, think and behave like peasants.
That's about it.
mrdoug90:
Ya that about sums it up hahaha
Oh you forgot , can afford to buy the latest BMW and Mercedes and have it washed daily , but won't get basic dental care, and has no qualms at sharing his mouth full of rotten black teeth to you while eating ( and smoking same time)
I am so fucking pissed. I just logged in to downvote you.
cub:
hulk, how about address whom u are now angry at this time by name ok? This clears up the mystery
I'll feed the troll. As a fellow wumao, I feel obligated to lay it out for you like this:
I like living in China, mostly because of the daily WTF that makes life back home seem so dull to me now.
I can relate to your desire to travel, teach, experience something new. I get that.
What makes me angry, and probably a few others, is that you want to expose your family to this. You said you have a 5 year old daughter. I can't imagine the mindfuck you're about to drop on her by moving her here. It's a very tough transition as an adult. As a toddler, man, shit. There's not an American girl age 5 who would choose this. And I know you think we're all racist assholes for this, but seriously, there are aspects of this culture that I would not want hard-wired into my child. If you go back through old posts, you'll find that most expats move home once they have children. Nobody move here with kids unless their company is paying to put them up in the weird, ungodly expensive, ultra-white washed section of the city where the differences aren't so startling. Besides all that, your options for her education are:
A.) a public Chinese school. Not really on option actually, as she doesn't speak Chinese, and would be worlds behind. Trying to put her into this system will negatively affect her self-esteem FOR LIFE.
B.) An international school. This might cost more than you can afford as a teacher, unless you can get a job at said school. She will be exposed to sex, smoking, and drinking at a much earlier age. She will go to school with the children of bankers, CEOs, diplomats, lawyers, and other people who are paid handsomely to live here by their companies/governments. Trying to put her into this system will negatively affect her self-esteem FOR LIFE.
Anyway, that's what makes me angry, it seems pretty uninformed and selfish to think this would be a good change for your daughter.
If this is really an idea you can't get outta your head, and you want to follow through, try coming here for a 3 month, summer-long program. Bring the family, see how it goes.
WooMow:
And yes, I will back up Samsara on this. Taiwan is #1. It'd be my first choice if I had a family.
perhaps the bad china days could be calmed down a little if i could consume alcohol as a relaxing release at the end of a long day, let me know when it is safe to drink the alcohol and know that i'm not ingesting ethanol or fake beer with the headaches the next morning that i never got when i drank a case of stronger beer in the west.
when you cant even have confidence in drinking, all else is doomed to pessimism.
I admit, I have been simmering for a few months now. A good example of the reason why played out just before the holiday break. We were shopping for a car. My wife had allocated a certain amount of cash and wanted to pursue the used car market. Finally, we settled on three choices: 2 were from dealers and the other was a private seller. Every one of them was a liar. They lied about the year of the car, the miles on the car, had fake documents....every lie in the book! After checking her observed vehicle mileage with service records at the dealership and seeing a big discrepancy, the service department lied to me and said their records were wrong (the private seller was related to the boss)! One of the dealers gave us fake paperwork for the car (we checked the tax record online). But what takes the cake is these people acted so casually afterward, like it was business as usual and normal (which it was and is). I was so angry, I took my family over to the new car dealership and did what I told my wife I'd never do. I am certain that 90 percent of the transactions on used cars are based on lies. Used car salesmen have a bad reputation around the world, but its frustrating experiences like this to do anything in China that is making me fed up. My sailing lessons can't finish fast enough.
Janosik:
Can it be that you are just more familiar and used to your home environment and therefore more inclined to accept those standards? Even though I feel truly sorry for you I can guarantee to you that you could easily get similar or same experience in many countries around the world - in Europe then for sure! EU countries and US have probably quite similar culture (at least in the perspective of comparing them to China) but many Europeans cannot accept the lifestyle in US and return back to Europe. And nobody says Americans or Europeans are cleaner or dirtier, smarter or more stupid etc. etc. Just the standards which are for local people natural differ and for immigrant it's always bigger or smaller headache to accept them. I think this is the problem of majority of expats in China. China quite differs from the Western world. Applying then Western standards and/or criteria on Chinese environment have to end up in the disaster. But your example is not one of those. I would more see your bad experience as part of bad luck ...
xinyuren:
Bad luck? haha, you must be Chinese. How about this for bad luck: Every business venture I've attempted with a Chinese person resulted in the Chinese partner trying to hustle and muscle me. Only the business with my gf / future wife went smoothly. Cheating and lying seems to be in their social DNA. I have bought approximately 15 used cars in my lifetime. I have never even remotely had this kind experience with greedy liars. The whole world has greedy, lying people but China takes it to a new level! China is the champion of greedy liars. .The Chinese, above all know this fact. They dont trust their own products. A casual survey in my city resulted in 85 percent of the vehicles being foreign, despite being almost twice as expensive. I bought a BYD. This will be an interesting experiment. I too wish I chose Taiwan.
ambivalentmace:
fraud on odometer reading in europe and america could result in prison and a civil lawsuit for financial damages. how is that the same as china? buying a car from a liar and cheater is just bad luck, no, its suppose to be a business transaction for market fair price based on all variables being known, there is a reason china has no allies or friends, you cant win and screw and cheat everybody on every deal, sooner or later, everybody goes home and does not play with you anymore. the sad part is how many deals never happen because people have already figured this out. how much better would china be economically if people trusted them, economics is not a zero sum game, everybody is supposed to get the benefit. the guy with the bad car now has an asset still sitting and no extra money, the buyer still has no car to make a living and have a better life, nobody won, everybody lost in the transaction, because you had to win the deal, win the battle and lose the war, thats what is happening to the chinese economy right now.
Ive lived extensively in ROK, Thailand, the PI, and now China for 1/4 my life. For me, China is a "chore" to live in. It might sound strange, but to me it seems the continuous vibe of "you are not Chinese, you are not one of "us"" mantra is the biggest thing for me that doesnt sit well (why be/live in a place where everyday you dont feel "welcome"). Sure, it happens a bit in many nations, BUT China still has a very long road ahead of itself in order to blend into the fabric of a "global-village".
Janosik:
How did you come to the connection that 'not being one of us' equals to not being welcome? Yes, non Asian foreigners cannot get integrated into Chinese society, similar for Japan and Korea by the way and it has a lot to do with these countries history. But not being able to really become 'Chinese' does not mean the people do not like you. You just cannot become Chinese. And if you cannot bear it, fair enough. I assume there is nobody pushing you to accept it ...
