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Q: Why are they proud of this?
I'm a bloke, so for some reason other men think it's OK to say horrible crap about women in front of me.
I am newly single and fairly recently arrived in China. My friend introduced me to some expat guys he knows and I told them the situation (I came here for a girl and we broke up). The guys then 'reassured' me by saying that as a white guy in China I can "do whatever the fuck I want" with women because Chinese women will throw themselves at me and western women "don't have any other option" so they are desperate. They basically implied that I can and should just treat women like shit because it's easy.
Have you come across this attitude? WTF are they proud of this? I don't want someone to throw themselves at me just because I'm a foreigner or they're desperate.
They sound horrible. Don't hang out with them anymore
Englteachted:
What exactly did they say that was so horrible? Remember the OP told them he came to China for a girl who then broke up with him.
When you get together with the girls and one says her bf left her, don't you tell her things to try to build her confidence? If I took the things you said out of that context would your statements be politically correct?
Hal195:
Actually it was more of a mutual thing.
And they weren't saying 'plenty more fish in the sea', or even, 'don't worry it's easy to find someone else', they specifically said 'do whatever the fuck I want with women because they don't have another choice'. I got the impression that they don't have a very good attitude towards women.
If they said something like, 'don't worry there are loads of hot/ cool women in China, it's great' I wouldn't have felt so uneasy about it but they were specifically bragging that women will just put up with a lot because they're desperate.
I dunno, I thought it was weird. I'd prefer it if women just liked me for me, not because they have some misguided notion about me being rich or special because of my nationality or because they're lonely.
Delphine86:
@Englishteachted Telling a girlfriend that men will throw themselves at her because they're desperate isn't much of a confidence builder.
Englteachted:
To a woman, to a man maybe it is. Remember it is the men who historically chase. Have we gone so PC that have lost all logic and sense? Men and women are equal but different physically and psychologically. So you will say different things to a woman to buildup her confidence vs what you say to a guy.
And you casually did not answer the question . When comforting a female friend , will you say things that if taken out of context might be deemed offensive to men?
They sound horrible. Don't hang out with them anymore
Englteachted:
What exactly did they say that was so horrible? Remember the OP told them he came to China for a girl who then broke up with him.
When you get together with the girls and one says her bf left her, don't you tell her things to try to build her confidence? If I took the things you said out of that context would your statements be politically correct?
Hal195:
Actually it was more of a mutual thing.
And they weren't saying 'plenty more fish in the sea', or even, 'don't worry it's easy to find someone else', they specifically said 'do whatever the fuck I want with women because they don't have another choice'. I got the impression that they don't have a very good attitude towards women.
If they said something like, 'don't worry there are loads of hot/ cool women in China, it's great' I wouldn't have felt so uneasy about it but they were specifically bragging that women will just put up with a lot because they're desperate.
I dunno, I thought it was weird. I'd prefer it if women just liked me for me, not because they have some misguided notion about me being rich or special because of my nationality or because they're lonely.
Delphine86:
@Englishteachted Telling a girlfriend that men will throw themselves at her because they're desperate isn't much of a confidence builder.
Englteachted:
To a woman, to a man maybe it is. Remember it is the men who historically chase. Have we gone so PC that have lost all logic and sense? Men and women are equal but different physically and psychologically. So you will say different things to a woman to buildup her confidence vs what you say to a guy.
And you casually did not answer the question . When comforting a female friend , will you say things that if taken out of context might be deemed offensive to men?
Respect women from every races. The type of behavior you describe is common among a certain type of expatriates (namely: the bottom of the barrel) and is one of the main reasons (along with xenophobic propaganda) why the Chinese public nowadays has a rather negative opinion about us compared to the excellent opinion they once had.
8 years in China and I never played with local women, I had 2 girlfriends in China, we have been together with my current for 5 years and we plan to get married next year after she finishes her studies, I swear I never cheated on her despite having countless opportunities to do so.
Yes it's so easy and very tempting as a White guy here, but not all of us are in China (or Asia) to trick local women while being careless about the consequences on this society in the long run.
Englteachted:
Again I ask what did they say that was so bad, in response to a guy that just told them the girl he came here for left him?
I think you should try to analyze the conversation in the context that was present when you were having it. Were you in a bar by any chance? Were you all relaxing over a few drinks, shooting the crap, talking about the ups and downs? Remember that anything said in this kind of situation isn't going to be accompanied with much consideration. Especially if drinks are involved. The quiet ones get loud and talkative, modest ones get confident, and a few select others start crying or fighting. Don't take the banter too seriously.
Finally, if it was a low key get together, you probably came off to those guys as the severely dark and depressed type of expat who doesn't know how to make the most of life. They probably fed you that line to instill some confidence in you and get you to pull yourself together. Besides, you don't have to be a supreme gentleman in life all the time. Let loose and have a little fun if you're new here, because at any time there's other people just like you that are out for the same thing. If that's not in you then just go about being the supreme gentleman that you want to be, but keep the depressing stories to yourself if you don't like to hear the advice.
Englteachted:
In context, that is it exactly. According to the OP this was in response to him telling them that he came all the way here for his gf who then broke up with him. So clearly they were trying to help build back his confidence. And what exactly did they say that was wrong? We should just rely on the OP's interpretation without proof (instead of telling me they were implying , tell me what they actually said)? I think this guy is being overly sensitive.
I once worked a guy who did not understand the concept of female sexual freedom. In his mind, a woman who chooses to have a fling or one nightstand is in some way being forced. He believed that all female porn stars are sex slaves that they are all being forced into the industry. Yes all of the as in every single one of them.
Hal195:
I'm all for fun and I have nothing against hooking up or casual relationships. I've done it a lot at home and when I was traveling in Europe.
I just think it's really f**ked up to brag about how you don't *have* to care about people's feelings or that loads of women like you for some dumb reason like, I'm a foreigner, or they have no other choice.
Hal195:
@Englishteachted
I feel like I need to mention that it wasn't quite like that. We broke up for a variety of reasons, but I don't feel like the victim at all. Not to give too much information but looking back it seemed to be on the rocks for a while I just didn't see it at the time.
Hal195:
What? Why do you think I was dark and depressed? I just told them that I broke up with my girlfriend, pretty normal situation.
jetfire9000:
The determination of whether you're depressed or not is going to come by assessing your voice intonation (how you said it), your body language (how you presented yourself when you were saying it) and what you said (self explanatory). These aren't manual processes but automatic ones that happen in just 2 or 3 seconds. If you came off as being upbeat, there's no reason anybody would offer you any advice because you wouldn't seem to be in need. If you came off in a darker manner, then that's why you would have received such advice. The reason I think you came off as being dark is specifically because the group of guys you were with seems to have logically interpreted you that way. Men understand other men.
It seems odd that you deem this to be a "normal" thing to say in an easygoing atmosphere. Perhaps you don't understand normal social processes. Very few people consider such a statement to be "normal" enough for a social atmosphere. Only ones seeking help and advice are ones that "sneak" or "force" that into a conversation. It creates a bit of social awkwardness, but nobody really minds if you need the help. They reasonably interpreted the situation this way and said the only thing they could that they felt could console you.
jetfire9000:
Consider the following conversation. A: "Hey man, how's it goin?“ B: "pretty fine i guess, I mean I just broke up with my Chinese girl who I came over here for." What's the next response going to be? Probably "ouch... well don't worry you can do better" "whatever you can go get anything you want" ect ect. The one you experienced also fits in there quite naturally. Nevertheless, these are all consoling and supportive responses which were offered as a solution to the particularly heavy statement you made.
Sure you may have had "casual relationships" but do they know that? And was this "just another" one of those casual relationships? If not, then try to understand the advice within the context it was given. I really didn't see anything out of the blue here.
I have heard of these people often but never encountered them. I have a great judgement in character mixed with not giving a shit what people think of me. I would have been long gone before that conversation ever got started.
I know its lonely here but straight up. Even after 8 years. I would rather spend my entire life alone than spend 10 minutes with a moron. Which is why you can count my foreign friends on one hand after a grotesque knife accident.
As for your topic, there is nothing to be proud of, but its obvious that many are. Even people that denounce that behavior. You can spot it with the countless, needless add-ons such as , "no matter how easy "or "even if I wanted to". Shit like that.
I dont feel even a tingle of pride getting any attention from.a woman i dont know. I equate it to being proud of nailing a hooker. Yeah it sounds a bit extreme but the fact is, you are attractive because of a passport or a good time, or a way to stand out or a tall nose. Hell you may or may not be attractive. We all know looks are waaay down on the bottom of the list of things they look for. And even if they do find you attractive their opinion doesnt mean much. Anything with a tall nose is automatically good looking. Every foreigner who isnt 300 pounds is attractive.
Besides, ive seen the kinds of girls these guys are so proud of nailing. Staight gutter trash swamp donkeys. Its so bad that all Chinese now think foreigners only like ugly women.
Theu can keep them and their pride. I got mine. Fuck em all.
I've never come across that exact attitude. The closest would be a 19 year old who talked about how easy it was to pick up girls, though not in a "do whatever you want" sort of way (though, still, not in the most respectful way either).
What consenting adults do isn't something for me to judge, and if it's easy for a certain type of guy (Western, or at least the "typical"/"ideal" Westerner) to get women, it's not a bad thing, as long as there's respect on both sides (I'd say to respect people of every race and gender). I'd say the same about if it'd be easy for a certain type of girl to pick up guys they desire. The problem comes when there's a lack of respect.
I'm guessing the type of guy mentioned in the original post, with the "feel free to use 'em" attitude could be coming from some sense of inadequacy (put down others to feel better), or other personal issue (or could be as simple as being an arrogant jerk).
I've never come across that exact attitude. The closest would be a 19 year old who talked about how easy it was to pick up girls, though not in a "do whatever you want" sort of way (though, still, not in the most respectful way either).
What consenting adults do isn't something for me to judge, and if it's easy for a certain type of guy (Western, or at least the "typical"/"ideal" Westerner) to get women, it's not a bad thing, as long as there's respect on both sides (I'd say to respect people of every race and gender). I'd say the same about if it'd be easy for a certain type of girl to pick up guys they desire. The problem comes when there's a lack of respect.
I'm guessing the type of guy mentioned in the original post, with the "feel free to use 'em" attitude could be coming from some sense of inadequacy (put down others to feel better), or other personal issue (or could be as simple as being an arrogant jerk).
hell yeah. i want them to love me long time. gigigdy gigigidy. get some balls. what you got no red blood in you? you re talking like a library teacher. you come to china and don't get some, you might as well chop it off, go home and put your little sunday dress on.
It sounds to me they were trying to build your confidence and I don't see what's so horrible about what they said (according what you wrote).
As others stated above, cut them off because you don't deserve them or they don't deserve you.
Englteachted:
"They basically implied that I can and should just treat women like shit because it's easy. "
Maybe you misunderstood. Do whatever you want does not mean treat women like shit. Women in China are actually very open to casual flings and short term romances (when they get comfortable with you).
Hal195:
Honestly what bothered me the most was the fact that they seemed so pleased that foreign women were desperate.
And they didn't just say 'it's really easy to hook up' which I'd understand, they specifically mentioned that women will throw themselves at you because they don't have another choice.
It seemed like they were saying that the only reason they treated women respectfully in the past was cos they had to to get laid, and now that it's easier to get laid they're 'dropping the act'.
Englteachted:
You are reading way to much into what they said. Especially since they were saying it to help you. You told them your sad story and they responded by doing what good guys do, build up your confidence. You then fantasized about what they really meant instead of being a man and asking them directly. Then take take your made up fantasy to this forum and knock them. Some friend you are.
Next time, go out with yourself and tell your sad story to the bartender.
It 's mostly true that as a Western gentleman in China you are able to punch well above your weight when it comes to attracting the opposite sex for meaningful or meaningless relationships. It's up to you how you treat people. Advice is often freely given, whether it was solicited or not.
How are you going to differentiate between the girls who want you for being a foreigner / are desperate, and the girls who aren't? I suggest you deepen your criteria a little bit and make room for different qualifications of compatibility. If you so cynically look at women here as being "desperate" for wanting you, then you must view yourself very poorly, since that goes to say that it is only desperate girls that are going for you. Stop thinking too much.
Pick yourself up, be confident, have a plan in life and be yourself. Don't live for what others are thinking or saying. If you feel like doing something then go do it, within the limitations of good reason and lawfulness that is. It sounds like the root of your unhappiness is that you've confined yourself to the idea of being what you think you must be - a guy who doesn't talk to women! Why is that? Are you letting locals' opinions of foreigners get into your head? Has the face concept gotten to you? So let me guess - you're going to try to follow the image of being a "supreme gentleman" to a capital T. That sounds utterly miserable indeed - if it weren't then you wouldn't have been here making this post. In China all you have to do to succeed is be a reasonable and responsible man - that is gentleman enough. Don't hit girls (that already separates you from a significant portion of locals), don't complain too much (stop whining!) , don't get pent up over paying 50 RMB for something, be faithful, and have a personality. Also have a plan or goal in your life. That's it. Most of us can do these things easily enough. No need to go about opening up doors or tipping your hat at women like you're in some movie from the 50's- these will make you super creepy and desperate looking.
Don't listen to female posters on this board - they're going to interpret everything in their own way. They're just as unhappy as most foreign people in this country, but perhaps worse off. What they said about foreign women having few choices is correct - there was an article about a girl in Japan who voiced similar frustrations. If you want to take the women's advice however, then fine. But you might as well go get some sex change operations done to go along with that mental castration you're doing to yourself.
jetfire9000:
I understand common social norms quite well, so perhaps I don't get you.
