basically i really dont believe in TCM. Come on dude, we got new technologies and advanced medical technologies. i guess the long tradition of china makes china to go after their chinese traditional Crap...

Because people believe in miracle. It happens quite often in TCM.

And people always believe in the stuff they don't quite understand, like it doesn't make sense to mix snake skin and ivory in the medicine, but what if it works differently……

I do know a lot foreigners learning TCM in China.

TCM is a scam for the most part and the people don't know any better. Imagine if someone told you everyday since you were a kid that drinking tiger piss would give you bigger erections. You'd probably believe it..

Stupid is as stupid does. All of the comments so far are based on ignorance and unfortunately this includes most Chinese who themselves are unaware of the true power of Chinese medicine.

Ivory had never been used in traditional pharmacopeias. Rhino horn was used for many years, but not for curing cancer! In modern times there are no reputable herbal companies who will use anymore. Snake skin is used still and truly works, I have witnessed it for myself in clinical settings and don’t need corrupt agencies like the FDA and the minimum of a million US dollars that is required for them to certify a new drug as proof it works...

Sometime when people are desparate they will believe or hope for anything to help. I know of people that have gone to see TV evanglists to have a hernia etc cured. Didn't work BTW
Most herb remedies are based in knowledge not superstition. Common things can be used to treat. The only one I know is Willow contains ASA.

Wow, people talking out of their behinds defending magic and mysticism. Phil, I would love to know what "clinical settings" you have seen, obviously they were not based on scientific method or logic.

Snake skin? You said you've seen it and it truly works, but yet you give no example of what it works for. Making a wallet? I agree 100%. Curing cancer, arthritis, or skin problems? Yeah, no. It's skin. It has no magical properties and in fact, no chemical properties that make it any more special than chicken or even human skin. It is used to test sunscreen as it is relatively similar to human skin on a cellular level, but that's a different kind of magic that doesn't come from China, so obviously it has no bearing.

Do you really think the large pharma companies have come to China, said "wow, look at all this medicine that works!" and then simply left with the feeling they had to "catch up" to TCM? No. They tested and tested and tested and found out that a majority of the "medicines" are nothing but folklore and placebos. Otherwise there would be a LOT more Chinese TCM based pharma products on the market besides the crap on sale here.

You truly believe that a "medical" community that thinks IV antibiotics are the cure all for everything, diagnoses illness by a thousand year old technique of comparing your inner organs to wood and metal, a magic energy flow that can be disrupted by "damp wind", and the "heat" of your blood (which can be magically changed by eating duck, watermelon, lamb, etc.), is legitimate science?

THAT is what TCM is based on. And it's hokum. Which is why all Chinese hospitals also carry western medicine. In case they actually need to CURE someone.

You say that snake skin has mo chemical properties based on you many years as a researcher?
Exuvia Serpentis is "snake slough" and has been found to contain over 13 kinds of free amino acids and a number of other highly valuable minerals. If you believe that minerals and amino acids play any role in the human metabolism, then maybe someday the science community will prove it to be useful.

After working in three Chinese medical hospitals, I have observed the main reason they use western drugs is, the kickback given to the doctors by the drug compaines, which makes up over 80% of their salaries.

If you really knew the first thing about the "large pharma" companies, then you would know that they have been here for years and pay hundred of thousands of RMB every year to the research orgs for finding the chemical constitutes of herbal products.

Yes, I DO say that. In fact I did in the post above.

So you are trying to tell me that "snake skin" - without naming the type of snake it's from (not that it matters) - contains 13 types of amino acids. Well, duh. It's ANIMAL SKIN. Wow! Well, I have 20 naturally occurring inside my body right now! Does my skin make good medicine? I have it because it's WHAT LIFE IS MADE OF. I'll bet you 10 RMB that chicken skin also has amino acids in it! Quick, make me some pills! I also contain a lot of "valuable minerals", and amazingly, nothing much different than what's in a snake.

You do realize that the actual scientific advancement with amino acids is being carried out in laboratories where geneticists are recoding RNA right? No, of course you don't, because Chinese doctors found amino acids (PS - none of which are new) in snake skin! That means it works!

Again, even after I pointed out that you did not mention what snake skin was used for and what you've seen it magically cure, you still didn't even put forth any evidence to back up your claim other than: You don't like western pharma companies and your opinion that Chinese hospitals only use western medications because it pays their salaries.

Your argument is invalid because what you are really saying is that Chinese doctors are unethical because they prescribe 80% of their patients drugs they DON'T NEED so they can get paid. But yet, these same doctors that have these 2000 year old "cures" for things that you are trying to defend are some sort of pharmaceutical role model for the world? TCM really works, but the problem is Chinese doctors need to dose up patients with Ritalin otherwise they can't get paid?

Please.

And if YOU actually knew anything about big pharma companies, you would know that THEY ARE BIG RESEARCH FIRMS. Why would they be paying "hundred of thousands of RMB every year" to Chinese "research" companies with less sophisticated equipment who's goal would be to SELL TCM products? THEY DON'T.

Sounds to me that you had a bad experience with western medicine and decided to come to China to learn some magic tricks and you need to defend it to make your venture seem worthwhile.

Up next, pointing a stick and saying "Expelliarmus" at cancer cures it. I've seen it in a clinical setting.

If it work for 6000 year, then it work. Science is there only 100 year, Traditional China test medecine 600 time longer! why it work is that

Vehru. You say that science is only 100 years old? You didn't just say that. Did you go to school at all? And you say that TCM has worked for 5000 years? Tell that to the families of the hundreds of thousands of cancer victims who drank TCM tonics instead of getting real treatment. Needless to say, they died in agony.

Vehruoglan - The Chinese medical text used as the basis for Chinese medicine is the Yellow Emperor's Inner Canon which was written in 1BCE, so it's just over 2000 years old.

Not 6,000. I have no idea where this number keeps coming from.

Another thing with TCM that I just don't get is the whole 5 elements hokum. Wood( why?) earth, fire, metal, water.

Why is air not an element?

MrTibbles... What are you talking about, they were driving cars 8000 years ago! Western Medicine doesn't not work and it's a sham... Suck a tigers penis and lick a bears paw, and drink some ground seahorse tea

Verhu, clearly you are a traitor who hates China.

Science was invented by Obama in 1987 in order to reduce the Chinese birth rate and destroy China's culture.

Chinese medicine was invented 8000 years ago by the Yellow Emperor, all at once, in the exact form it takes today, with no changes.

Why do you hate China, Vehruoglan? Are you obsessed with foreign culture?

I love it when I call a person on trolls and they don't respond because I'm like 1 million percent right.

Hey I thought Shakespeare was the major contributor to TCM a few hundred years ago:

Double, double, toil and trouble, fire burn and cauldron bubble, scale of dragon, tooth of wolf, eye of wolf, toe of frog, wool of bat and tongue of dog, adder's fork, blind worm's sting, lizard's leg and owlet's wing..............

Doesn't mention tiger's piss, maybe that was a later additive.

Are you guys saying that the rhino horn I am chewing on won't help my....ummm......my....er....personal problem?

i have 2 ideas to solve china population problem
1 make ignorance punishable by death
2 restrict chinese to only use TCM

Remember many Chinese still think that you cant wash or do anything for 1 month after you give birth. The basis for that is....Science No, Tradition Yes.
I dont doubt that some herbs etc are helpful to health and asist in making some illness better and I dont think anyone would dispute that.
What is also completley rediculous to any logical thinking person is that extracts from exotic animals have any relationship other than placibo to addressing their claimed benifits in TCM. To believe that you would also have to believe that the rarest most exotic animals coincidently just hapen to be the ones with the magical powers. If there are compounds in there that help then most would have been found and tested and used in medicines by now. Yes pharma companies have a lot of ethical issues that I dont agree with, but I am also glad they are around when I really need them. As far as antibiotics go I cant believe how so many Chinese just keep a ready supply and take some whenever they think they might need to. Education is needed world wide to stop their overuse.

Every time someone tries to tell me about how great a medicine system with so much history can be, I remind them that the west has plenty of their own long held medical bullshit.

I do have a certain respect for some of the older TCM however. China and Chinese people have had a lot of uninterpreted historical record to produce some pretty impressive correlations. However, as they say, correlation is not causation. And piss is still piss no matter what Animal its coming out of.

TCM continues to be prevalent just like anything else backwards in China. People are told to believe it and they are taught not to question. You are just gonna loose that argument. So if one starts just walk away and remember that you have much more productive ways to flush your money away.

Some aspects of TCM seem weird but I think some of it works. People who are used to Western medicine don't understand it. TCM isn't wrong, it's just different.

No. 95% of TCM is a scam. The point of medicine is to make you get better. Western medicine does that for the most part. According to TCM, tiger penis, rhinoceros horn, and black bear bile are healing remedies. TCM also advocates the consumption of human bones, fingernail, hair, dandruff, earwax, impurities from teeth, feces, sweat and organs.

Is it possible that TCM accidentally stumbled upon some real medicine? Yeah. If you go outside and eat everything you can find then you're bound to discover something of medical use but for the most part, TCM is a farce. Go to a Western doctor.

I do believe in TCM.
Real TCM is about balance , the balance of YIN n YANG. Itz totally different from western medicine (bio-medicine),for myself if I get infection,fever,or I need an operation ,absolutlely I’ll see the doctor of western medicine, it works fast,itz easy to see how it works!but if I feel something wrong but no trouble exactly shows up,or I feel that im in a subhealthy condition, I go for doctor of TCM.
There’s no so-called miracle made by TCM too. TCM is about balance n adjustment.it originates from practice n guides the practice,other from western medicine which originate from large researches n experiments.The system of theory is characterized by the concept of the organic wholeness n treatment based on syndrome.TCM is not as some ppl say just about the unreasonable treatment n weird medicine.when u go to the doctor of TCM , they do the job named inspection, listening (smelling), inquiring and palpation(望闻问切),n suit specific method to the illness.TCM system includes YINYANG,QI,BLOOD,BODY FLUID,FIVE ELEMENTS,FIVE-ZANG ORGAN n SIX FU-ORGAN, ,THE SYSTEM of MERIDIANS n COLLATERALS,HERB MEDICINE, TUINA,ACUPUNCTURE n MOXIBUSTION etc. TCM system differ the body state by QI , BLOOD,YIN,YANG.n they differ almost every herb, every kind of meat,almost every growth n derivatives in nature by meridian tropism ,nature n flavor.
Most things you just mentioned are just scams in the name of TCM to cheat the patients,but actually have nothing with TCM.but,some medicine mentioned are really recorded in some TCM books, say,snake (specific speicies): pangolin scales,water snake …their skins, snakegall,meat have different medical value recorded in Compendium of Materia Medica.(I wanna put an example ,but really don't know how to translate the words….)
Western medicine n TCM focus on different points! Western medicine focuses on the micro parts coming from rigorous experiment results , but on the contrary , traditional chinese medicine focuses on wholeness!
And , so far there are a lot TCM principles we cant explain from the perspective of western medicine, n a lot of scams there make TCM sounds false n unreasonable.n itz reasonable a lot ppl don't believe in it. But plz don't judge before you basicaly know what it is! N plz don't think TCM is just about the scams you know!

PS:Not yellow emperor but shen nung started the TCM practice!

I trust Chinese medicine.

And why do people have to question any country's traditional medicine? Where I come from we have our own traditional medicine and they works in certain illness too. Everything western is not always the best.

seems people are confused a little bit.

every country has had their own form of traditional remedies, medicines and treatments (especially africa a much longer history than china, humans originated in africa). but for the most part these were scams or flat out superstitions but did create a placebo effect (for my chinese cousins: a placebo effect is when you give someone fake medicine but tell them it is real and it will cure them, the patient will believe what he/she is taking will cure them and have a more positive attitude and therefore fight off minor illnesses. key word minor illnesses does not work with cancer). now where the hell was i, with the advent of the microscope, science has made great leaps forward in medicine. this lead to what is now modern medicine. modern medicine is based scientific experiment. so many of these ancient remedies were put to the test. many they found worked through the placebo effect. but some were actually found to be legit. the chemicals that were found to cause the effect were isolated and developed into pills.
because of this everywhere else in the world modern medicine took the place of traditional medicine.
but in china modern medicine is labeled western medicine in order to give it a negative connotation. (even though modern medicine has studied and continues study TCM and incorporates legit cures and treatments into Modern medicine) TCM is very limited because it does not incorporate advancements that were made in at least the last 1000 years. and it relies heavily on the placebo effect (the placebo effects works rarely and not with major sickness). modern medicine is 100% against the idea of selling someone fake medicine and telling them it would cure them. TCM relies heavily on that idea and and that practice is china is acceptable. in other countries it is referred to as cheating / ripping off.
but in order for TCM to have a demand you must keep the population ignorant of science. having schools teach TCM is like having school teaching people to write by chiseling in stone (it is obsolete)
run this experiment in your mind: TCM only in shanghai, modern medicine only in Wuhan. nobody moves in or out of these cities in 10 years the population in wuhan is greater than the population in shanghai? or 15/20 years
just to make sure this is not the answer of the day japanese have fully embraced modern medicine and are close to developing a treatment for penis enlargement , (many men and women here will now lobby for modern medicine)

Itz true that in ancient china there were a lot of scams n superstitions.but TCM does not belong to any of them!n TCM does not reply on placedo effect! Traditional chinese doctors they feel the woman’s pulse to test if she’s pregnant,the seniors could even feel the pulse with a cotton line!they kill the pain by acupuncture!n they can tell which organ is not going well by checking someone’s face n tongue n pulse instead of a lot scientific tests!you say this is about placedo effect ?!! if I believe Im pregnant would make me pregnant , then the placedo effect makes sense! N how can you say the pill , the painkiller is not about placedo , u believe the pill kills pain, so it works! Becoz the”scientific evidence”?!then have you truly examed every kind of pills you take that they are scientific?no, but you believe in the results of the experiment!just like I believe in the achievements of TCM came from practice! Btw,you really think before the modern medicine came out ,chinese ppl all treated by placedo effects for years n years?!!!give examples, what about TCM is placedo?i mean real TCM!

Talking about the scientific modern medicine system n microscope!i do believe the science based on the microscope!itz a great leap,it make the pill consist of only the useful particles.n it does make TCM less sense, n seems unresonable, becoz it cant separate into micro parts!n surely in most fields modern medicine is more advanced! but it doesn't mean TCM is nothing but placedo effects n scams n superstitions.let say,we believe in microscope, we believe in the modern medicine, but how do you know ppl in 3012 still believe that, they may find a completely different way for health care , they may find an very easy way to cure cancer! N they totally leave aside the microscope stuff we use today.then can they just say the stupid ways we use nowadays are placedo,scams n supersititions?becoz their treatment are completely against ours!or ppl on the other planet do have much more advanced treatments, then makes our modern medicine no sense?! Now, all around the world choose western medicine,itz advanced,itz based on the micro science ,then makes TCM which treats with the macro thoughts n wholeness no sense?! Rediculous!

N teaching TCM is not to make ignorance secience n not teaching ppl the obsolete things.but contrarily to merge TCM into modern medicine, to embrace it!thatz why we have Chinese patent drug. But many chinese are not aware of this, they just chase the western medicine with denying TCM completely or stop in the traditional treatment , this is what really can be called sad n ignorant! In this field,indeed, japanese do way way better,they do numerous reseaches n experiments about tradional medicine, they try to enterpete it in the modern way, but the core is there never changed!nothing new under the sun....

Crimo sweetie, you will never convince me by your points , becoz all of them are based on your ignorance of TCM which you think is it!

Why do people believe in Santa ?