By continuing you agree to eChinacities's Privacy Policy .
Sign up with Google
Sign up with Facebook
Q: Why do people sometimes dislike china?
Ok, so here goes.
I have found that many people here have a hatred of China and the chinese, what I seriously can't figure out is why?
Sure, this country has more than its fair share of stupid monkey pig shits, but that is not because they are chinese, its because they are stupid monkey pig shits. Every country is the same. You know it and i know it.
Education will solve many of societies ills here, so relax and give them time to sort their shit out.
Remember, this society was agrarian twenty years ago.
Live by the following motto and i promise you will be 100% happier "my way is the right way of doing things, but its not the only right way"
Because they're just jealous!
Serous answer to a baited question? OK, Let me answer by giving an example:
Today I'm rushing to work (in a carpool, that's why i can type) as it seems I'm late. What happened?
Last Thursday, my wife asked me how many days off I'd get for Labour Day (Friday). Nobody had told me about the holiday coming up the next day. My wife said I should ask quickly, because my godchild would visit with her family. I asked the staff which days I get off from work. They didn't know yet, and they said they'd call me about it after work. Itold them that was unacceptable, and I needed to know quickly (yes, FTs do things on their days off that require planning; they don't sit on a shelf waiting to be used).
I got a quick answer, but it was later revised. Another colleaguetold me I'd have 3 days off and could return to work today at 3pm. Unfortunately, the head of the teaching department was away, otherwise he would have written it down clearly.
I contacted that department head guy later on, because my wife mistakenly believed I had a right to more days off. During a QQ conversation, he mentioned he would be back at work today at 9am. Since people arrive at work at different times, I thought nothing of it.
This morning, I get a call from him asking why I didn't show up for work at 9am. I explained that they told me my work starts at 3pm. I remembered the colleague who told me this. Later he calls back telling me the colleague is sure she didn't make a mistake. He also presents his QQ log as "evidence" that I knew the right starting time of work today. There is no convincing them I'm not at fault now.
Today I'll be arriving at work to a company full of employees who think I'm cheating to get a few free hours. It's the same feeling of arriving at work late PLUS the knowledge that nobody recognizes you are not the cause of the miscommunication.
This is just one of the aspects of China that gets on people's nerves. Yes, it was an agrarian culture and still is; all societies were agrarian at some point. They didn't invent the clock here, there are no town clocks or hourly bell chimes, and time is pretty much an underused feature on the top corner of everyone's iPhone.
But the complete lack of regard for foreigners is baffling. Even in a company where the foreigner is of vital importance, they don't inform us in timely fashion, but procrastinate intil it is far too late. 3 weeks ago, I got a call at home, 8:40am. It was the depertment head telling me a new class would start at 9am. Everyone from marketing down to the assistants knew it weeks before. "Just so you know it on time", he said. Yeah, if he wasn't worried I would not arrive early enough at work to start the class, he would have chosen to let me find out on the spot.
Is it incompetence, bad planning, shyness or deliberate? It really doesn't matter: It hurts productivity, and it needs to stop. In fact, Chinese communicate with eachother quite adequately. Only when they need to communicate with the foreigner they become bumbling goofies on sleeping pills and laughing gas. Whoopsiedaisy - foreigner's bad.
fada:
Is it a language problem you have? I can understand that, me too. what place do you work that staff arrive at different times? Is it shift work?
Robk:
Yup, never the staff's fault... always the foreigner.
My buddy told me the other day his Chinese employer had been holding his passport for about 2 months. Every time he asked for it... the guy said he would bring it the next day...
Finally, he got sick of it and told him that he would not continue classes until he had received it. The employer says to him, "Why do you want to make this relationship bad?"
That's Chinese people. Use people's good nature against them, and abuse relationships then when the other people protests (as they should), they try to make them feel guilty by saying THE OTHER person is creating bad blood. They do this with foreigners a lot too cause they are more vulnerable.
Happens ALL the time!
coineineagh:
I would not hand my passport over to any employer. Except maybe to photocopy, but if they didn't give it back immediately, I'd start shouting and threatening to call my embassy. @fada: No, not a language problem. I was told my work time in clear English, and I remembered it carefully. The colleague simply mixed up the times and days when she told me. Schedule changes should be written down carefully, not hastily mumbled by the unlucky colleague chosen to have to talk to the lion - I mean foreigner.
gouxiong:
Oh man!
You do not know the public holidays announced officially by the governments and you blame your colleagues for that? (by the way these announcement can be found also in English).
I dare to say your example does not sound to me as proof of Chinese stupidity ...
Yinduoren:
@gouxiong: Just an FYI, not all employers are the same... unfortunately not everybody goes as per the government plan.. the company i worked for previously sucked at announcing holidays they always try to give less holidays then the publicly declared holidays so they don't have to give OT... For example, for new year, Gov said 7 days, my company said 3 days and if you happen to be traveling somewhere then come back and work on weekends to repay the extra days... Sucks!!! I don't know why the text is in blue...
did I mention the we normally worked 6 days a week, an that been said, only way to payback the days is to work on Sundays...
Stiggs:
@gouxiong. Official public holidays and when you actually need to be at work are often only very loosely related. The fact that the Chinese staff had no idea either would show this is likely the case in the OP. Coin asked a valid question and should be able to expect a proper answer.
ScotsAlan:
Gouxiong
The company I work for is the same. Government issues the holiday notification about a week before the holiday. The company then often sit on it for a week, then issue the holiday notice the day before we are on holiday.
Sure, the Government decide when the holiday is, but it's up to the employer to pass it on. What happens if the company decide to do something different from what Government says.
It's the same with any announcements. Say there is an important audit going on. The date is set months in advance, but we are not told about it until the very day of the audit. Then we are told to tidy our desks and dress smart.... just as the auditors are walking through the gate.
It's a total lack of forward planning. It affects every aspect of life here.
For example, every time I get in a car where the driver wants to use sat-nav, he sets off, then tries to programe the sat nav as he is moving. Or sometimes he drives to the general area of the destination, then tries to program the sat-nav.
The one thing he never does is check the destination and set the sat-nav BEFORE we set off.
To anyone else that would be the obvious thing to do. But for some reason, not for Chinese drivers.
Gouxiong, can you explain why drivers do this in China? What is the chain of thought?
gouxiong:
OK, sorry for my ignorance - apparently I missed the situation in your companies.
One could argue that the employer has actually limited freedom in setting up the holidays differently from by government announced ones and in case they really do then they need to do it in written and adequately in advance but I agree that this is of little importance.
May be the reason I never had any such problem was that I never hesitate to call my superior to clarify the things I am not clear about - better than hunting in the dark and then having the real problem (not showing up in the work without proper, or by law defined, reason is anywhere in the world quite an issue)
coineineagh:
I forgot to mention: Usually I can get good value out of my Monday-Tuesday "weekend" because work ends at 6pm Sunday, and starts at 3pm Wednesday. Time I can be with my family, be a good dad to my sons, help out my tired wife and MIL, etc. But due to the rescheduling, my work finished 9pm on Thursday (too late to get a carpool home until the following morning) and *should've* started 9am Monday. I get barely half a day longer to be with my family. And now that they've rescheduled my workdays to this week for *their* convenience, I won't see my family for another 7 days.
fada:
Sorry for your troubles man, your boss sounds like he sucks, the things you put up with for family eh!
royceH:
It's a bad scene, Coin. Next time you get a job in China make it one on your own terms.
And btw, how about this gouxiong character, eh? Is he the worst troll we've ever seen or what?
And Fada's not that far behind.
I think "Hate" is a bit harsh word to use... Nobody hates China, from reading previous questions and posts everybody have had their share of BCD's (bad china days)... That could be the reason, but on a whole there are plenty of good stuff around here. Also I've met plenty of really good people, but irony is we tend to only remember the bad one's and make a perception out of it...
From my personal opinion : China is lot like my country, and yeah I mean spitting, starring, cons and all of that, but with better infrastructure and slightly bad English. I don't hate any bit of it, there are more worst things in the world then this..
And I think most of the people will agree, they don't really hate it here, but then again, it's just me.. so who knows the right answer?
fada:
I was going to use the word despise but i toned it down to hate! Haha. Its true that we only remember the bad stuff and i suppose that would taint the view a little bit.
I really think that a lot, or even most of the people here don't actually hate China,although it does come across that way, they just hate living here sometimes and vent online to get it out of the system.
As mentioned above, you do tend to notice the negatives, there can be a lot of them and coming from a completely different culture where you just don't see the negative things that are considered normal here doesn't help.
Everyone has bad China days.
Some of us are considered pro China, to the extent that we are sometimes suspected wumaos 
.
The problem is, when we have a BCD, it is often for a reason that will not go away. Corruption for example.It is so ingrained into the culture that it is considered normal, and no matter what Government say or do, there is no sign of it going away.
Things such as internet control are on the increase, the promises made before the Games having been forgotten.
The things such as spitting and lack of etiquette are small things compared to the biggies. But a small thing can push a sane rational person into being a gibbering ranter on a BCD. I have been there many times.
But of course, the main big one is insecurity. No matter what us foreigners do, we are always guests who can be kicked out on a whim, with no recourse whatsoever. That can be a little stressful if you have a family here. Our status is never secure. We have medicals to face, paperwork to get, and we have to work in conditions of near indentureship.
ScotsAlan:
Put it this way Fada, it makes doing a lot of things pointless. Why learn the language if you might be chucked out tomorrow? We are not here to change China, but a litttle security for our Chinese families might change our attitudes somewhat. You cant complain about us not integrating when we we are not actually allowed to.
fada:
I'm irish man, i know a little bit of chinese even though ive been here for almost 5 years, where as i know, if i was in any other country except china i would be fluent in the !ocal language by now and that is down to two reasons, number one is the insecurity issue and number two is no one here actually speaks chinese either, or at least my heavily accented version of it! Haha
ScotsAlan:
Yup. I live in GZ where not many people speak Mandarin.
It is not unusual to come across Cantonese speakers who can't speak Mandarin, and Mandarin speakers who cant speak Cantonese. Add to that a lot more dialects from all over China, and there is a communication issue here with our without us being thrown into the mix .
I remember reading... only 60% of Chinese understand Mandarin to a fluent level?
fada:
Im just south of you :) the problem with my place is that everyone in it speaks their own version of mandarin. I think i have read the same rsearch as you. less than half has mandarin as a mother tounge as opposed to their local language. All these reason combined with the fact that sometimes I'm as thick as two planks and just as lazy means that me no speaky d chinesey. Haha
gouxiong:
All Chinese dialects have the same writing system. I do not think that illiteracy ratio is 40%... Nevertheless to learn or not to learn Chinese is everybody's choice. Of course the effort required in case of studying the language is tremendous. Nevertheless from certain level helps to enjoy the life in China much more. What concerns of insecurity so it may be approached from another angle. If you really decided to settle here for good so you may consider investing into the property and apply for green card. I guess having green card shall provide decent security level. Probably you can hardly achieve better as China does not allow dual citizenship and you most probably do not want to give up your current one. But I do not find the situation that bad. Wherever you are, if out of your homecountry, so it always involve certain level of insecurity. Even EU may face the trouble if the concept falls appart (unfortunately under the current circumstances one of possible scenarios).
Because they're just jealous!
Serous answer to a baited question? OK, Let me answer by giving an example:
Today I'm rushing to work (in a carpool, that's why i can type) as it seems I'm late. What happened?
Last Thursday, my wife asked me how many days off I'd get for Labour Day (Friday). Nobody had told me about the holiday coming up the next day. My wife said I should ask quickly, because my godchild would visit with her family. I asked the staff which days I get off from work. They didn't know yet, and they said they'd call me about it after work. Itold them that was unacceptable, and I needed to know quickly (yes, FTs do things on their days off that require planning; they don't sit on a shelf waiting to be used).
I got a quick answer, but it was later revised. Another colleaguetold me I'd have 3 days off and could return to work today at 3pm. Unfortunately, the head of the teaching department was away, otherwise he would have written it down clearly.
I contacted that department head guy later on, because my wife mistakenly believed I had a right to more days off. During a QQ conversation, he mentioned he would be back at work today at 9am. Since people arrive at work at different times, I thought nothing of it.
This morning, I get a call from him asking why I didn't show up for work at 9am. I explained that they told me my work starts at 3pm. I remembered the colleague who told me this. Later he calls back telling me the colleague is sure she didn't make a mistake. He also presents his QQ log as "evidence" that I knew the right starting time of work today. There is no convincing them I'm not at fault now.
Today I'll be arriving at work to a company full of employees who think I'm cheating to get a few free hours. It's the same feeling of arriving at work late PLUS the knowledge that nobody recognizes you are not the cause of the miscommunication.
This is just one of the aspects of China that gets on people's nerves. Yes, it was an agrarian culture and still is; all societies were agrarian at some point. They didn't invent the clock here, there are no town clocks or hourly bell chimes, and time is pretty much an underused feature on the top corner of everyone's iPhone.
But the complete lack of regard for foreigners is baffling. Even in a company where the foreigner is of vital importance, they don't inform us in timely fashion, but procrastinate intil it is far too late. 3 weeks ago, I got a call at home, 8:40am. It was the depertment head telling me a new class would start at 9am. Everyone from marketing down to the assistants knew it weeks before. "Just so you know it on time", he said. Yeah, if he wasn't worried I would not arrive early enough at work to start the class, he would have chosen to let me find out on the spot.
Is it incompetence, bad planning, shyness or deliberate? It really doesn't matter: It hurts productivity, and it needs to stop. In fact, Chinese communicate with eachother quite adequately. Only when they need to communicate with the foreigner they become bumbling goofies on sleeping pills and laughing gas. Whoopsiedaisy - foreigner's bad.
fada:
Is it a language problem you have? I can understand that, me too. what place do you work that staff arrive at different times? Is it shift work?
Robk:
Yup, never the staff's fault... always the foreigner.
My buddy told me the other day his Chinese employer had been holding his passport for about 2 months. Every time he asked for it... the guy said he would bring it the next day...
Finally, he got sick of it and told him that he would not continue classes until he had received it. The employer says to him, "Why do you want to make this relationship bad?"
That's Chinese people. Use people's good nature against them, and abuse relationships then when the other people protests (as they should), they try to make them feel guilty by saying THE OTHER person is creating bad blood. They do this with foreigners a lot too cause they are more vulnerable.
Happens ALL the time!
coineineagh:
I would not hand my passport over to any employer. Except maybe to photocopy, but if they didn't give it back immediately, I'd start shouting and threatening to call my embassy. @fada: No, not a language problem. I was told my work time in clear English, and I remembered it carefully. The colleague simply mixed up the times and days when she told me. Schedule changes should be written down carefully, not hastily mumbled by the unlucky colleague chosen to have to talk to the lion - I mean foreigner.
gouxiong:
Oh man!
You do not know the public holidays announced officially by the governments and you blame your colleagues for that? (by the way these announcement can be found also in English).
I dare to say your example does not sound to me as proof of Chinese stupidity ...
Yinduoren:
@gouxiong: Just an FYI, not all employers are the same... unfortunately not everybody goes as per the government plan.. the company i worked for previously sucked at announcing holidays they always try to give less holidays then the publicly declared holidays so they don't have to give OT... For example, for new year, Gov said 7 days, my company said 3 days and if you happen to be traveling somewhere then come back and work on weekends to repay the extra days... Sucks!!! I don't know why the text is in blue...
did I mention the we normally worked 6 days a week, an that been said, only way to payback the days is to work on Sundays...
Stiggs:
@gouxiong. Official public holidays and when you actually need to be at work are often only very loosely related. The fact that the Chinese staff had no idea either would show this is likely the case in the OP. Coin asked a valid question and should be able to expect a proper answer.
ScotsAlan:
Gouxiong
The company I work for is the same. Government issues the holiday notification about a week before the holiday. The company then often sit on it for a week, then issue the holiday notice the day before we are on holiday.
Sure, the Government decide when the holiday is, but it's up to the employer to pass it on. What happens if the company decide to do something different from what Government says.
It's the same with any announcements. Say there is an important audit going on. The date is set months in advance, but we are not told about it until the very day of the audit. Then we are told to tidy our desks and dress smart.... just as the auditors are walking through the gate.
It's a total lack of forward planning. It affects every aspect of life here.
For example, every time I get in a car where the driver wants to use sat-nav, he sets off, then tries to programe the sat nav as he is moving. Or sometimes he drives to the general area of the destination, then tries to program the sat-nav.
The one thing he never does is check the destination and set the sat-nav BEFORE we set off.
To anyone else that would be the obvious thing to do. But for some reason, not for Chinese drivers.
Gouxiong, can you explain why drivers do this in China? What is the chain of thought?
gouxiong:
OK, sorry for my ignorance - apparently I missed the situation in your companies.
One could argue that the employer has actually limited freedom in setting up the holidays differently from by government announced ones and in case they really do then they need to do it in written and adequately in advance but I agree that this is of little importance.
May be the reason I never had any such problem was that I never hesitate to call my superior to clarify the things I am not clear about - better than hunting in the dark and then having the real problem (not showing up in the work without proper, or by law defined, reason is anywhere in the world quite an issue)
coineineagh:
I forgot to mention: Usually I can get good value out of my Monday-Tuesday "weekend" because work ends at 6pm Sunday, and starts at 3pm Wednesday. Time I can be with my family, be a good dad to my sons, help out my tired wife and MIL, etc. But due to the rescheduling, my work finished 9pm on Thursday (too late to get a carpool home until the following morning) and *should've* started 9am Monday. I get barely half a day longer to be with my family. And now that they've rescheduled my workdays to this week for *their* convenience, I won't see my family for another 7 days.
fada:
Sorry for your troubles man, your boss sounds like he sucks, the things you put up with for family eh!
royceH:
It's a bad scene, Coin. Next time you get a job in China make it one on your own terms.
And btw, how about this gouxiong character, eh? Is he the worst troll we've ever seen or what?
And Fada's not that far behind.
I think using the word hate is far too strong... if you use the words:
- "generally annoyed with"
- "extremely frustrating"
Then that would be more suitable. There are far too many reasons why and if you don't know then you are clearly delusional or Chinese (in fact most Chinese know it about these traits themselves but won't protest it too much for fear of being called a traitor).
But they do know.
Oh you want examples?
- Went on a camping trip this Saturday... unfortunately it was May Day and other Chinese choose to use the same location for sight seeing. They continuously tried to get our attention with stupid, "Haarrooooooooooooo!" cat calls from far away and talk about us.
Luckily they all left in the evening, however in every spot they sat and enjoyed nature... they also decided to leave nature a nice big present. A ton of garbage! Many didn't even hike up to the spot like our group (4 foreigners and my wife)... they drove SUVs.
So why couldn't they take their garbage with them (as if there isn't enough room) so that others could enjoy the scenery and not pollute nature? Why do they act like slobbering morons when foreigners are around?
It's not about cultural differences. It is about bad manners, alienating people, and polluting the environment. It is no wonder other countries want Chinese to stay in China.
fada:
Ok title has been changed. Im starting to think I'm lucky, all my colleagues are pretty ok, a few bell ends but in the vast minority. I will 100% agree on the littering aspect, that really annoys me too actually. I never travel when then natives have holidays. Too many people. do you find its people from a certain province of china would show these shitty qualities more than others or generally across the board shittiness is equal?
Thank you for the bit of wiseness... Here's mine : when a 13 years old teenager is being criticized over typical teenage behavior, (s)he get angry, will slam doors and say things like "everyone hates me !!!". Well, that teenager, that's China, but the teenager have been with terrible parents until recently and have quite an inferiority complex. I guess pollution counts as teenage pimples.
With that brand of charisma, well, you won't feel the love.
fada:
Our societies went through the same growing pains. Interesting analogy, would you blame a teenager for acting like a teenager?
DrMonkey:
I wouldn't blame a teenager for being a teenager. I would probably not give a teenager a special treatment and pass tantrums over teenage bullshit : for education sake. But I have no problems to blame the elite of a country and a self-defeating mentality. Teenage is due to physiological changes (no, I won't lecture about where those changes came in the first place). What China is and how it behaves is largely self-inflicted. We can look post-1950 : when you obliterate whoever have an education who didn't fled from the previous shenanigans, that does not help to promote adult, rational behavior. Blabla 1860 Opium Wars blabla, yes it's true and it had an impact, but that's barely a fraction of it. Chinese-on-chinese disasters have been the most clostly (for an example circa the so often mentioned Opium Wars : Taiping Rebellion, one of the deadliest conflict ever).
gouxiong:
I am always surprised at the level of arrogance certain (on this site many) expats openly show, probably without even realizing how ignorant such approach may be. And citing Taiping rebellion which leader was inspired by Christian missionaries has little to do with current China (however has a lot of common with opium wars which basically destroyed at that time already weak Manchu dynasty). But the reference has a bit similar relevance like when I would be saying that thanks to unbelievable bloody and chaotic French revolution the current French people show reasonable lack of noblesy. Sounds like a nonse, right? Your "Chinese example" has similar relevance.
DrMonkey:
I used that as an example of Chinese-on-Chinese conflicts during that era that is far less quoted than the ever-quoted Opium Wars. Blaming that on missionaries, okay... How about an horrible social system that pushed people to the Taipings, no ? The later had some form of welfare and equality amongst citizen, an heresy to the Qing. The conflicts depopulated whole provinces, killed dozens of millions, to the point that some area still didn't recover yet, in term of population and development.
They are stupid monkey pig shits who validate and entrench their stupid monkey pigshittedness with herd mantras and fatuous gaseous bromides.
New Zealand has boring middle trash as well as bogans, but their values aren't entrenched and being permeated outward (and downward onto the next generation) by the institutions within the country.
fada:
I dont know what middle trash is or indeed a bogan, i can guess, but i love saying it! Haha rolls off the tongue! BOGAN!
laowaigentleman:
Put the word bogan into google images. Perhaps even yahoo will give you a good yield.
laowaigentleman:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Middle+Trash
What does education have to do with anything? Are you saying that you need to sit in a class and be taught that lying, stealing, and cheating is wrong? A teacher needs to tell people to get off of their &%$@ing WeiXin and look where they are walking? Are you saying that disadvantaged people who do not have access to schools are cursed to rudeness? Neither is true.As for stupid pig-heads. Every country has them. It comes down to things like, ratios, scale of stupid pig-headness, and tolerance of the aforementioned pig-headness. Based on my years of experience here, China has a losing hand on all three counts.
I might come back later and flesh this response out with examples like other expats (believe me when I say that I could fill a book. I have lived in 5 different apartments in China, all 5 came with major asshole neighbor and/or landlord problems. I just lived without electricity for two weeks thanks to asshole neighbors of mine...so I am not in the mood to defend the virtue of the Chinese people. I have worked for 3 different employers in China...all three screwed my visa, forced me to pay through the nose for their stupid mistakes, exposed me to HUGE risks...and did not give a rip. I can't just buy that I have shit luck).
Like someone else said, Chinese are takers, not givers. Eventually, you get worn out.
fada:
Well yes, you actually do need to learn that lying stealing and cheating are wrong. The same as you learn 1+1=2. you are not born with that knowledge. As for people with no school being rude, that would depend on the person judging and how refined they consider themselves to be. I have lived in 7 apartments, only one of which turned out bad due to housemates rather than landlords. I have worked for 4 employers here, all of which were great to work for, its only when agents get involved does stuff go south in my experience.
gouxiong:
One thing took my attention. You apparently lived and worked in many places in China. And you say everywhere you had problems with more or less everybody (as long as the person was Chinese). It almost sounds like that the problem may not be China ...
RachelDiD:
Dada--you must be Chinese! You do not need to learn that lying, cheating, and stealing is wrong the same way you need to learn basic math. Those are antisocial behaviors. Functional societies have mores against them, that every child learns, growing up. If it is not written on a board and regurgitated on a test, that is no excuse. As for rudeness...it is pretty much known in East Asia that Mainlanders are trouble.
My current employer is not an agent--it is the top ranking uni in my province, and one of the top ten in China. They botched my papers more than anyone.
fada:
@tachel: You 100% need to learn that stealing and cheating are wrong the same way you learn math. I will reiterate, you dont wake up with this knowledge in your head. I'm not chinese. So if everybody in asia thinks the chinese are rude then it must be true right? Maybe the uni cant get your visa but still wants you to hang around cause your white and blonde?
gouxiong:
The question comes why anybody who hates China and Chinese so much still cares about getting her visa done?
Slipping then into the stereotype to blame everybody with different opinion to be Chinese ...
Absolutely ridiculous from person willingly coming to China and making an effort to stay here on prolonged visa ...
fada:
If the natives make you angry then its time to leave. Its that simple, if standing up to racism makes me an apologist then so be it
I don't hate China. I love many aspects of the country. I am no fan of the government. And, the pollution issue will get better in time...if the people want it to happen. The education system totally sucks. Reforms will be made eventually.
But, here is my perspective. It is their country. It is not mine. I have the option of leaving when I begin to "hate" China. There are plenty of other countries in the world to teach in. The positives of living here and experiencing life here have far out-weighed the negatives. I have never really been bothered by the spitting, shitting on the streets, ot any of the other social abnormal events. It is who they are at this point in their development. And, I have never been a health nut. So, pollute away. We all die from something one day.
I guess my biggest concern is the future of the kids I have had the honor of teaching here. I worry about them. What will happen to them in the future China. They are definitely not prepared for an economic collapse. They have no creativity, intuition, common sense, or definable life skills to help them succeed in a fast growing country like this. I do the best I can to try to prepare them. But, their laxed view of things makes it hard. This is a culture that cares little for the past and has no planning capabilities for the future. It is all about the now. I can only hope that they will be resilient enough to get through the hard times that will be coming one day.
If I hated China then I'd leave. For those that have started a family then I can understand your predicament. It annoys me when some people descend into outright racism and if you ever feel like you may be turning a little racist then this could be your cue to leave.
You really need a sense of humour. Poor driving, terrible organisation, questionably safe work practices, lack of forethought, the list goes on. I try and have a little chuckle.
I was on the way to work the other day when I was stopped by a huge queue of e-bikes. A woman in a car was doing a 72-point turn in her Audi and had managed to get her car wedged between a pole and a planter that completely blocked the bike lane. I laughed. I looked at the policeman next to me and then we both laughed together.
most long-timers in China have learnt to be tolerant with the bumps that are Chinese 'customs' and 'traditions', but for even the most patient there is a limit.
The guys with wives and families have learnt that they have to more tolerant than most.
It can be the constant drip drip drip drip of the small things that drive someone over into a a BCD, or one big thing: the constant lying taken in isolation you shrug off, but when it is the same lies over and over and over.........
It is better to have a safety valve like ECC where you vent than do it in public, and yes this is a very similar thread to one recently.
every country has one where the ex-pats vent online and gripe about the place they are.
We are prepared to look for and see the positives where we are, but when the same illogical behaviour is exhibited endlessly repeating itself despite our best effort to the contrary, particularly by employers who should know better, I for one am not prepared to suck it in all the time.
EDIT: if i was awarding a degree in ass-holery, the Chinese would win - without having to resort to cheating.
gouxiong:
Interesting. So if I understand your comment well so you are living in cycles. Slowly accumulating your frustration, anger or intolerance, at certain time "exploding" and then starting again with your negative emotions accumulation. Just out of curiosity - did you ever considered to simply accept the surrounding environment how it is and save yourself from your periodical problems?
sorrel:
sorry 'Hadley' we are not all on cocaine like you, or whatever you are are smoking, and are oblivious of the real world. Some of us prefer to deal with the real world and real life. If it takes a little reminder to people I have to deal with regularly that they are making life needlessly more difficult, I will give them that reminder. Politely of course. 
gouxiong:
Vow!
So you see your task in coming to China to lecture people because they do not behave as you like?
I would almost dare to say that you missed the right time ...
Golden age of Western colonization era looks to be, luckily, long time over.
But as China is apparently quite tolerant country so you are free to enjoy yourself - the risk that it may be quite a lonely party (with exception of few other expats with similarly skewed points of view) apparently does not bother you so - go ahead! :)
sorrel:
"I think it's quite normal that we all like certain things and do not like (or even hate) the other ones."
this is what another poster wrote on this thread - wait a minute, it was you.
Sounds like you are a bit confused.
Unless you are on some kind of drugs, people have good days and bad days wherever they are: it is called being human, so what are you smoking? 
China's a mess. Even in a 19th century reality, China's a mess.
The people are brainwashed and stupid. The govt are omnipotent. And the people are stupid.
And a great many of them are also arseholes. Lying, cheating arseholes.
I do concede that not all Chinese are as I've described above, and I'm sorry for them.
What to do? Get your act together and proclaim "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!"
But lack of numbers will make such a venture doomed to failure.
Modern China is not a healthy place.
fada:
Most of the people are ignorant, not stupid. There is a huge difference you dumb racist
Hotwater:
Royce must have had a BCD and a few beers when he wrote that!
royceH:
You're right, the both of you.
I've had a look at myself and I don't like what I see. My attitude has deteriorated to this.
I think I'll suspend myself for a while.
Thanks for the slap.
For me it's the multitude of mini-things: when you turn on an ipad on the subway and a couple of drooling twats blatantly lean over your shoulder to stare at the screen, the spitting and nose-clearing EVERYWHERE, the sheer retardness of forming a scrum at the subway door to get ON the train before anyone can get OFF, the horrendous 'customer service', going to restaurants and pretty much 50% of the time your order being entirely wrong, the littering - oh the littering. I've seen 6 year olds asking their mother where they can throw their rubbish, and the mother takes it off them and throws it on the street! Yeah, great example to set. The public pissing, the public shitting. How Beijing has got LOADS of foreigners but I still get stared at like I have 2 fucking heads every day of the week. I don't look weird, I'm average height, short brown hair, no facial piercings or facial hair, wtf are you staring open-mouthed at? You see foreigners every day, it's not a major event. The internet censorship, the complete disregard for laws, the scams, the pollution, the incredible amounts of food-scares. I'm almost scared to eat anything here in case it's fake, been sprayed with carcinogens and growth hormones, or fried in gutter oil. In what other country on Earth do people have such contempt for each other for the chance to earn a few extra kuai? The industry devoted to cheating here, I would NEVER hire a Chinese to work for me as I've seen firsthand the outright lies on CVs [resumes] and blatant cheating the majority appear to engage in to pass any type of exam or test. A Chinese friend of mine joined a major international accounting firm, went through 2 weeks of training that she didn't turn up for (a friend in her training group signed her in every day), then in the test at the end of training someone came in and gave them all the answers. Everyone in the group got 95%. And then she was complaining because the UK branch doesn't allow people to transfer freely from China to England. I wonder why... My own girlfriend had a mini-business in the UK writing undergraduate essays for Chinese overseas students, she also worked writing their entrance essays, CVs and Personal Statements for them to enter US universities. I almost feel sorry for universities who accept hundreds of apparently fluent Chinese only to find out they can barely string a sentence together in English and all their experience is made up.
I actually like the chaos of China, and I have a lovely girlfriend and some great Chinese friends here. Sometimes I'm really happy here, but quite often I fucking hate Beijing. I'm only still here because of work (my girlfriend's and mine). She's Chinese, and we'll both be very happy to leave when we finally do. I've lived in Korea, Thailand and Japan and all of them were better in most ways.
It's not all shit here, but there is a lot of shit.
@caketaster: your argument is sound and well thought out and i agree on most points. Also if your name is your job where do i apply? 
