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Posts: 426

Governor

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Q: Why some expats believe that their judgements about China are correct?

It's surprising how many expats believe that making judgments about China is their 'cup of tea'.

Firstly I would already question the right of any person to judge the foreign country but let's go more mildly and do not call it judgment but rather making an opinion.

 

Majority of expats, I so far met, cannot really speak Chinese. Certainly they are not able to read the newspapers or having a reasonable communication with Chinese about any topic.

But these people still believe that they fully understand what is happening around them.

(Here I need to add that speaking the language fluently still does not guarantee understanding of the culture)

 

It's a bit like in Xinyuren example about his Wechat friend who is or is not Xiao San (not that either would be right or wrong or anyhow mattered). He demonstrated how he jumped at, probably wrong, conclusion just due to the lack of knowledge about her.

(what by the way still does not rule out that she is xiao san)

 

Majority of expats in China is also lacking enough knowledge of certain basic facts and/or behavioral patterns and therefore a lot of their comments, opinions and judgment do not reflect reality.

 

What is such a big problem for these people to realize it and approach their life in China more humbly?

8 years 3 weeks ago in  Lifestyle - China

 
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Could you please explain how knowledge of China's language and culture makes public defecation less dirty, pushing in front of others less rude, and lying less dishonest.

 

Do you think expats are mistaken that these things are dirty, rude and dishonest?

 

Or do you contend that, with more knowledge of language and culture we could come to understand that dirtiness, rudeness and dishonesty are not actually bad?

 

As all the posters above have pointed out, pollution, internet and media restrictions, and uncivilised public behaviour exist, regardless of one's language ability.

 

"You don't understand Chinese culture because you can't speak Chinese" is simply a Chinese tactic to avoid honest observations about reality.

 

And are you gouxiong?

 

xinyuren:

He's definitely Guoxiong v2.0

8 years 3 weeks ago
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RiriRiri:

Why 2.0? That would suggest some improvements or at least any change at all.

8 years 3 weeks ago
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Janosik:

First of all public defecating has nothing to do with dishonesty ...

 

Secondly what I meant is that Chinese are having different values and approach to the life than Trans Atlantic civilization (and even there are differences - majority of Europeans cannot really survive in US and usually are returning back).

 

I also never said that China is perfect. A lot of things are really bad here.

For instance pollution - really bad!

But it certainly is not this this and last government fault.

By the way do you know that China is now the biggest investor into green energy?

So apparently China wants to change the situation but you simply cannot switch off all the coal power stations ...

 

And so on, and so on ...

 

For the above mentioned example you do not need to be even Chinese speaking - you find it in English media.

 

What I meant by the language knowledge is that it simply helps you to understand the surrounding culture and environment better.

For instance Hotwater was mentioning that Chinese are driving terribly but apparently nobody gets angry or nervous about it.

This is clear difference to the West.

In the West all would get crazy about this situation.

 

Chinese have simply in certain aspects different approach than Westerners. 

Not better, not worse. Just different.

 

We 'exported our ladder of values' to pretty many countries in the world - it all ended up in total disaster.

May be it's time to realize that Western standpoints are not superior to other ones - they are just different ...

8 years 3 weeks ago
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RiriRiri:

I also never said that China is perfect. A lot of things are really bad here.

For instance pollution - really bad!

But it certainly is not this this and last government fault.

Really? So who'se fault? Industrials? Aren't they supposed to respect norms? Who enforces those norms?

 

By the way do you know that China is now the biggest investor into green energy?

How's that going so far?

 

So apparently China wants to change the situation but you simply cannot switch off all the coal power stations ...

Well you could minimize their impact, as DrMonkey said a while ago. But it's about common good so no one would give a shit :)

 

For instance Hotwater was mentioning that Chinese are driving terribly but apparently nobody gets angry or nervous about it.

Says who?

 

Chinese have simply in certain aspects different approach than Westerners. 

Not better, not worse. Just different.

Yet Chinese (along with the whole third world for that matter) will chose to flee to the West when given a chance. How do you explain that ? :)

 

We 'exported our ladder of values' to pretty many countries in the world - it all ended up in total disaster.

May be it's time to realize that Western standpoints are not superior to other ones - they are just different ...

Please detail what "values" are you talking about.

8 years 3 weeks ago
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Hotwater:

@ Janosik. Who says Chinese drivers don't suffer from road rage? I've driven here for >4 years & 80,000km now and have had a number of arseholes try to drive me off the road because I wouldn't put up with them changing lanes directly in front of me with no indicating or because I blocked from from driving down the emergency lane or driving the wrong way down the road. This is why I bought a dash-cam!

 

I'm a patient driver back in the UK & Europe but in China I won't tolerate any stupid driving if I can stop them from doing it. 

 

Though to follow up on this I will say that I've seen some improvements in local driving over the last 4 years in Guangdong. 

8 years 3 weeks ago
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Janosik:

<>@RiRi

You really do not understand that airpolution in China was built over several generations and there is no fast (2-3 year) remedy for it?

Then I cannot help you ....

@Hotwater

I did not mean Chinese drivers are not terrible. I referred to your mentioning that majority of people in China simply does not get excited over it.

8 years 3 weeks ago
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8 years 3 weeks ago
 
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So, in your mind, our inability to use the language adequately should not shape our thoughts about the actions that the people do?

 

A newspaper tells us that Xi is doing more stuff regarding internet censorship, and because our language skills suck, we shouldn't be able to form an opinion on it?

 

Using this logic, most things that happen in the world we shouldn't be able to comment on.

 

I see parents getting their little kids to piss and shit on the streets - next to toilets or even just a bunch of trees... but because I don't speak the language well, I shouldn't express an opinion on it?? (this is an extremely regular occurance - which is not alleviated by seeing (or extremely rarely seeing) parents and grandparents using alternatives (ie, I don't see them hanging their kids in the shrubbery...)

Janosik:

No, this is not what I meant.

Probably I expressed myself awkwardly.

You may or may not mind children defecating on the street. You may or may not like people spitting on the street.

All these things I find relatively minor.

 

What I meant that many people are based on these obvious happenings creating strong judgments about China as such.

For instance some people immediately derive from it that Chinese do not have manners.

May be they do and may be they do not have but seeing some children on the street to urinate and passersby spit is not exactly a proof of it.

 

8 years 3 weeks ago
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ambivalentmace:

chinese dont have manners, smoking in my face, cutting in line, the list goes on forever and i have seen this behavior every day for six fucking years. its not an assumption it is a goddam fact, what is really sad about this is sometimes in the last 6 years, i have been away from the general population and lived on an academic campus where supposedly the intellectuals are that should have better behavior and have sadly been disappointed. im still amazed that china lets us in this country to see this, my only conclusion is they do such a good job putting on a show for the rest of the world so foreigners returning are not believed when we tell the real reality because everyone has been brainwashed with a utopia perception. my utopia perception of china was blasted away like a sawed off shotgun through butter the first week i was here, now its just living in a repeating horror movie and the plot is predictable and boring.

8 years 3 weeks ago
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ambivalentmace:

in the west judgements are not made by talk, everybody lies,

 

actions speak louder than words, dont do as i do , do as i say do,

 

walk the walk, dont just talk the talk.

 

the best teacher has lesson plans done, well prepared, never late, organized, patient and everybody knows who that teacher is,

its not the bragging asshole with the bs degree bullshit degree, ms degree, more shit degree, or the phd, piled higher and deeper shit, its the one that walks the walk.

8 years 3 weeks ago
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8 years 3 weeks ago
 
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Another bleating post.

 

You are either a certified wumao, or you're still in the honeymoon phase.

 

The forum exists to ask questions, share information and comment on the advice/opinions of others. It's not a Blog where everyone details their banalities.

 

I know more about Chinese history than my students do. Most of my students couldn't care less about their own history. Does that make me superior to them? Does knowing the whys and wherefores of present day Chinese culture make any real difference in my daily life? Or are you making two logical fallacies: that language ability equates above-average reasoning and intelligence or do you really believe that the expats on this forum are truly representative of all the expats in China in general?

Janosik:

I honestly hope that the expats on this forum truly are not a representative sample of expats in China.

If it would be so then I would certainly got depressed. 

 

Coming to your reply. That you know more about Chinese history than majority of your students, provided it's really true, makes you superior to them what concerns of Chinese history. I would still suggest a bit more humble approach and would recommend you the same logical construction you used for exapt on this forum in comparison to expat in the whole China.

Saying this your students (or at least some of them) are then clearly superior to you in some other discipline.

 

But I think you touched the right point.

I also believe that many expats simply get superiority feeling.

The reasons are very simple:

1) You come here, usually, either as English teacher or higher manager

2) In both cases you are by definition superior to the Chinese around you 

3) If we talk about language so native English speakers are of course well superior to their surrounding environment what concerns of speaking English.

4) Majority of Chinese cannot really speak Chinese well, what is sometimes misinterpreted like lack of thinking or mental abilities in general - it can be the case but it can also mean that the person just cannot express himself/herself well by using English

 

Yes.

I noticed that in general and in this forum even more than when meeting expats in the real life - probably on the account of anonymousness in here.

 

I still find it wrong ...

Majority of expats in here in average do not look to be superior to too many Chinese ..

 

8 years 3 weeks ago
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ambivalentmace:

it is embarrassing to teach chinese history to chinese students, it actually infuriates me sometimes. they dont even know the worst earthquake in the world was in china in the 16th century with approximately 800,000 dead. ask them who died on mar 12 1925 and has tree planting day on that day and get the blank stare.

8 years 3 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

WUMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Without a fucking doubt!!!

8 years 3 weeks ago
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hi2u:

so who died on March 12 1925 who gets a tree planted in his honor? I'm genuinely curious

8 years 3 weeks ago
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8 years 3 weeks ago
 
Posts: 1439

Shifu

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Here we go with the bottom of the barrel of sophistic argumentation, false equivalence: one cannot possibly have access to all the facts therefore one knows nothing. Yeah we've never seen that one before.

 

Not that I'll bother answering further, but what exactly equates in your mind to a sufficient level of knowledge in order to produce an opinion?

Why don't you pick a specific subject and we all compare facts and evidence (and no worries, I speak Chinese and Cantonese and I've read the classics, you just bring it on and debunk us on anything we've falsely stated before at any point).

 

And as far as behavioral patterns are concerned I don't think they're that hard to read, you for instance don't even bother changing your trolling strategy in between two nicknames and still posing as a Czech just like good old Gouxiong.

 

I don't blame you, we all gotta make a living, but seriously, samsara posted a thread on how to be a good wumao a while ago. Read it, it's better than the one you've been provided. Hopefully you can get promoted somewhere else and we'll get to see some new heads.

Janosik:

You apparently are educated person (speaks several languages, read Chinese - and probably also other countries - classics).

Therefore you are probably perfect example proving that education and intelligence do not have to go hand in hand ...

 

And even though risking you will not be able to comprehend my remark I still like to say that I really do not care what do you think about me and my nationality

8 years 3 weeks ago
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RiriRiri:

Fair enough, then cut the crap and pick a topic.

8 years 3 weeks ago
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8 years 3 weeks ago
 
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How can you not believe what you see with your own eyes everyday? Then, how can you not form an opinion, or judgment based on what you've seen?

 

These are just some of my opinions.

 

China is polluted, the environment is toxic

People here are materialistic

Some of the food here is great

Chinese people can be very loyal and generous to their friends and family

People here can be extremely dishonest.

The driving is generally terrible

 

All of these opinions are formed based on what I've seen again and again and again. I would say my judgments are pretty accurate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stiggs:

Something else I have observed is Chinese people getting pissy when I form an opinion that isn't the opinion they would like to hear.

 

You will hear claims of arrogance, foreigners thinking they're better, not understanding the culture etc etc but at the end of the day, when people see something that disgusts them they will judge the people doing it.

 

Me, or anyone else thinking something negative about a place isn't the 'wrong' opinion just because the locals don't like people knowing that and would rather deny it than change their ways.

 

If you want people to talk about the pristine views and civilized people then you need to have pristine views and people acting in a civilized way..

8 years 3 weeks ago
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Janosik:

May be your last comment to your reply illustrates the problem.

I do not deny China has many problems - plenty ...

 

But for instance your last mentioned one looks to be a culture problem.

Chinese, with certain level of education, hate to say negative things. 

They also hate to hear it.

 

You need to be a good friend with one to be able to speak relatively directly.

Chinese just do not do that.

 

I always find funny reading posts like: 'I said Ni Hao and they praised my Chinese! How dumb are they?'

Actually their meaning was not to praise your Chinese, they not expect a person could say much more than Hello and Thank you - they just want to say something positive and it shall not be misunderstood ...

Different approach.

That's all I wanted to say ...

8 years 3 weeks ago
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seansarto:

@ Janosik..I agree chinese tend to say positive things regardless of true sentiment...but that is the first sign of con artistry or fear..The lack of sincerity in one's proclamations. A lack of sincerity or inability to see value in the sentiment is a failure of cognisance...A false advantage one tries to give oneself...That false advantage is "pride"...When such rose-colored approaches become entrenched or institutionalized they become unsustainable to the equilibrium of those very same institutions...because they are illusions...You can see the USA is struggling to reconcile this kind of "political correctness" in its political elections right now.Say a CEO only hears positive feedback concerning his company's profitability..Well, kiss the stock market goodbye..When the lack of sincerity becomes harmful and detrimental it is delusional and has severe consequences. They are betrayals to the integrity of oneself.

8 years 3 weeks ago
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Stiggs:

@Janosik. I hear what you're saying and I usually don't tell anyone local what I really think. I actually am mostly sensitive to people's feelings and don't want to offend people. But, I'm not going to gush praise and lie either if I'm asked what I think. I agree, it's a culture thing and it's not in me to blow smoke up someone's ass and lie about how great I think they are..

 

I'll just go back to your original post which is what I was answering... why do I (we) feel our judgments are correct? Answer; because it's what I (we)see everyday. I feel they're correct.

8 years 3 weeks ago
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Janosik:

@seansarto

Or may be it's just another approach, another habit, another culture ...

8 years 3 weeks ago
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Janosik:

@Stiggs

Yes, I would expect so from majority of reasonable persons.

There are certainly a lot of things which makes me angry. China is certainly not perfect.

 

What I meant is more illustrated by seansarto's comment.

I am convinced that Chinese habit/custom to so say something nice when talking to the other person has nothing in common with their trying to lie, mislead the person or even fear.

It's simply jumping at conclusion, being assumptive without proper knowledge or understanding of China environment.

 

What concerns of defecating on the streets - if anyone asks me if I like it so I will reply I do not.

If anyone asks me if I mind (in the sense it makes me nervous) I will reply I do not care ...

8 years 3 weeks ago
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8 years 3 weeks ago
 
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Could you please explain how knowledge of China's language and culture makes public defecation less dirty, pushing in front of others less rude, and lying less dishonest.

 

Do you think expats are mistaken that these things are dirty, rude and dishonest?

 

Or do you contend that, with more knowledge of language and culture we could come to understand that dirtiness, rudeness and dishonesty are not actually bad?

 

As all the posters above have pointed out, pollution, internet and media restrictions, and uncivilised public behaviour exist, regardless of one's language ability.

 

"You don't understand Chinese culture because you can't speak Chinese" is simply a Chinese tactic to avoid honest observations about reality.

 

And are you gouxiong?

 

xinyuren:

He's definitely Guoxiong v2.0

8 years 3 weeks ago
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RiriRiri:

Why 2.0? That would suggest some improvements or at least any change at all.

8 years 3 weeks ago
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Janosik:

First of all public defecating has nothing to do with dishonesty ...

 

Secondly what I meant is that Chinese are having different values and approach to the life than Trans Atlantic civilization (and even there are differences - majority of Europeans cannot really survive in US and usually are returning back).

 

I also never said that China is perfect. A lot of things are really bad here.

For instance pollution - really bad!

But it certainly is not this this and last government fault.

By the way do you know that China is now the biggest investor into green energy?

So apparently China wants to change the situation but you simply cannot switch off all the coal power stations ...

 

And so on, and so on ...

 

For the above mentioned example you do not need to be even Chinese speaking - you find it in English media.

 

What I meant by the language knowledge is that it simply helps you to understand the surrounding culture and environment better.

For instance Hotwater was mentioning that Chinese are driving terribly but apparently nobody gets angry or nervous about it.

This is clear difference to the West.

In the West all would get crazy about this situation.

 

Chinese have simply in certain aspects different approach than Westerners. 

Not better, not worse. Just different.

 

We 'exported our ladder of values' to pretty many countries in the world - it all ended up in total disaster.

May be it's time to realize that Western standpoints are not superior to other ones - they are just different ...

8 years 3 weeks ago
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RiriRiri:

I also never said that China is perfect. A lot of things are really bad here.

For instance pollution - really bad!

But it certainly is not this this and last government fault.

Really? So who'se fault? Industrials? Aren't they supposed to respect norms? Who enforces those norms?

 

By the way do you know that China is now the biggest investor into green energy?

How's that going so far?

 

So apparently China wants to change the situation but you simply cannot switch off all the coal power stations ...

Well you could minimize their impact, as DrMonkey said a while ago. But it's about common good so no one would give a shit :)

 

For instance Hotwater was mentioning that Chinese are driving terribly but apparently nobody gets angry or nervous about it.

Says who?

 

Chinese have simply in certain aspects different approach than Westerners. 

Not better, not worse. Just different.

Yet Chinese (along with the whole third world for that matter) will chose to flee to the West when given a chance. How do you explain that ? :)

 

We 'exported our ladder of values' to pretty many countries in the world - it all ended up in total disaster.

May be it's time to realize that Western standpoints are not superior to other ones - they are just different ...

Please detail what "values" are you talking about.

8 years 3 weeks ago
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Hotwater:

@ Janosik. Who says Chinese drivers don't suffer from road rage? I've driven here for >4 years & 80,000km now and have had a number of arseholes try to drive me off the road because I wouldn't put up with them changing lanes directly in front of me with no indicating or because I blocked from from driving down the emergency lane or driving the wrong way down the road. This is why I bought a dash-cam!

 

I'm a patient driver back in the UK & Europe but in China I won't tolerate any stupid driving if I can stop them from doing it. 

 

Though to follow up on this I will say that I've seen some improvements in local driving over the last 4 years in Guangdong. 

8 years 3 weeks ago
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Janosik:

<>@RiRi

You really do not understand that airpolution in China was built over several generations and there is no fast (2-3 year) remedy for it?

Then I cannot help you ....

@Hotwater

I did not mean Chinese drivers are not terrible. I referred to your mentioning that majority of people in China simply does not get excited over it.

8 years 3 weeks ago
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8 years 3 weeks ago
 
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Learn English dumbfuk. Judgment is by it's very definition opinion , so of course people are going to think their own opinion based on their observations are correct you stupid retard. 

Janosik:

I will try to improve my English, thanks for reminding me.

 

By the way did you already decide to learn something about the topic before you comment on that?

Probably not. Never mind. Life is long (at least some, a bit naive, youngsters believe so ...).

Only really really 'smart' person may believe that shouting WUMAO is an argument

8 years 3 weeks ago
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Hotwater:

Janosik, Don't worry about Englteachted, he's always spouting off with arrogant comments. He's quite amusing at times.....

 

I'm enjoying your comments on here though I do think with your last couple of questions you're coming across as a "I'm holier than thou" type 

 

a lot lot of the posters on here come to let off steam, rather than doing it in real-life. 

8 years 3 weeks ago
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8 years 3 weeks ago
 
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Humble?   -   never heard of it ~

 

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8 years 3 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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I have been here for five years and my views have changed considerably in that time. Like everyone I went through the honeymoon faze where everything was great, and if it wasn't I could tell myself at least they are catching up fast and it will be better in a couple of years. Then the pendulum swung backwards and I can remember walking down the road thinking "I hate these f***ing nongs, can't do anything right, won't learn etcetera. Both of these viewpoints were totally wrong.

 

I now live my life not as a superior westerner but simply as another person. I see things here that I do not like and consider them rude or disgusting, but these judgements are made according to my upbringing not theirs. That is to say I am not excusing them but simply accepting that I am the outsider in their country and if I really do not like it I can leave. I do consider pushing in line to be rude and public defecation to be disgusting, even more so when there is a toilet within spitting distance. The point is can I change it and really the answer is no. Most of the people behaving in this manner are ill educated peasants coming from a background where these type of behaviours are considered to be normal. I know enough Chinese people who despair of this ignorant way of life as much as we do.

 

I have spent five years here and only know a few words of Chinese to my shame. This week I have found a Chinese teacher to help me learn. I am not learning so that I can understand their culture better, I do not need to and lets face it a lot of Chinese do not really understand their own history and culture. However it will make my life a bit easier.

This country has had a horrible history in the last sixty-five years thanks to the great M. Would we be any better having gone through a cultural revolution, red guard and the virtual shutting down of nearly all education. I would suspect not. Our own countries are far from perfect which is why a lot of us choose not to live there any more. Are some things bad here? Yes of course they are but spending our lives bitching about what we cannot change seems to me to be a waste of life, it is pointless. Have I made Chinese friends, yes; and the ones I include as friends as opposed to acquaintances are very good friends. A good example is my Chinese teacher, I have known her for a year and when I asked her to teach me she said " You have given me so much that I love the chance to do something for you in return".

 

Chinese do not fall into one stereotype any more than all the rest of us do but spending so much time complaining does not help. However the occasional vent does no-one any harm.

Janosik:

Good cooment

I find it difficult for majority of Westerns to understand a country which came from socialism to capitalism (yes, China today is very capitalistic country).

8 years 3 weeks ago
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8 years 3 weeks ago
 
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I am not an ex-pat. I am a migrant. I just happened to have fell for a Chinese National, and now we are married (6 years now), and we have a daughter, who is also a Chinese national.

 

I pay tax to the Chinese Government, I have bought an apartment here, and my work contributes to the Chinese economy.

 

My spoken Chinese is rubbish. Language is just not my thing. It never has been. My brain is not wired for it.  But the Government issues me work permits, because I can contribute my skills.

 

With so much emotional and financial investment here, I think I am entitled to have an opinion on the place

 

However, if I were to call myself an ex-pat, it has connotations of my stay here being short term. It would mean I would be separating myself from other people. I would be saying that I was somehow "different" from my wife and family.

Janosik:

Scot, I know you look to like China. And I know you have famiky here. But you are still expat. You can freely chose where you want to live. Chinese cannot. But I do not blame you at all.

8 years 3 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

I can't live freely in China Janosik. You should know that. I do however know loads of Chinese who moved to the UK, some with study visas and some with spouse visas. A couple have UK passports now. My daughter is Chinese, with a Chinese passport. She is free to live in the UK. She has a UK certificate in her CHINESE passport. She does not have a UK passport. So, its actually the opposite of what you say. Chinese can settle in other countries. Foreigners can't settle in China. I think I am entitled to point this out, and maybe even campaign on forums for the law to be changed. And I am not an expat. That is a label the individual attaches. As is their right. If a Chinese guy lives in the UK he is perfectly entitled to call himself an expat. His right to do so. I just don't like the term being used to describe me.

8 years 3 weeks ago
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Janosik:

No, I do not think so. You can probably apply for Chinese citizenship.and get it. Then this becomes your country. Your daughter is not allowed dual citizenship. So she is.either Chinese or UK citizen

8 years 3 weeks ago
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Hotwater:

I thought that Scots was quite clear. His daughter is Chinese with the right to live in the UK (it's called "right of abode" and she can, at anytime, choose to be a UK citizen. It doesn't mean she's dual-nationality at the moment). So at the moment she's Chinese. 

8 years 3 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

No foreigners have been given Chinese citizenship. Apart from Edgar Snow perhaps. Not sure. Need Bing that. Also, even Chinese green cards are only for 5 or 10 years. No right of abode for any foreigner in China.

8 years 3 weeks ago
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Janosik:

@Scot

Honestly speaking I do not know.

What I wanted to say that as long as you have your British passport so you are have the options few Chinese have:

1) You can go to many places without visa (including 'China' like Hong Kong and Taiwan) but Chinese have to apply for special permit (except of these in Shenzhen etc.)

2) You may freely work in more or less whole Transatlantic world and where you need a work permit so it will be usually piece of cake; not so with Chinese passport holders

3) You may any minute decide to change the country of your living - Chinese usually cannot do that so easily and certainly not in minutes but rather in weeks and months, if at all

 

Saying all of this I agree that you cannot be really integrated into Chinese society even if your Cantonese and Mandarin does not have the accent.

This is something what I hope will come with further China development and with that connected expats influx nto China.

8 years 3 weeks ago
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Janosik:

@Hotwater,

Yes, sorry for being to vague. What I meant that Scot's daughter is not really only Chinese, so to say, because by right of birth she can anytime (or her parents on her behalf) claim UK citizenship ...

May be you can renounced one or the other irrevocably, but I fully understand few people wold do that (I would not).

8 years 3 weeks ago
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8 years 3 weeks ago
 
Posts: 544

Shifu

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"What is such a big problem for these people to realize it and approach their life in China more humbly?"

 

Which mental illness leads you to ask loaded questions?

Janosik:

Congratulation! Asking the questiin is the sign of mental illness! You cannot be German or Austrian. And if you are you didn't leave but wre expelled from your country!

8 years 3 weeks ago
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8 years 3 weeks ago
 
Posts: 7204

Emperor

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@op
can you take a moment and describe yourself to us
for example im a 48 yr old Australian married to a Chinese woman (narcissistic) who comes to China about 1 month a year
also doesn't drink alcohol in Australia but consumes large quantities in China to make sense of thing's that don't make sense
i have a low torrents to Dumb asses in any place in the world (i dont descriminate by any means)

Janosik:

OK, Here we go: I am midle aged Czechoslovakian. Drink quite a lot of alcohol ocaisionaly but rarely go on Internet drunk. Like China, speaks the language above average but not excellent. No Chinese relatives as I have already way too many in my home country? Anything else you want to hear about me?

8 years 3 weeks ago
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rasklnik:

I think this may be a lie. You are either a Czech, or a Slovak. The languages are different, and the history political issues as well. All the Czech I have met either refer to themselves as a Czech, or being from Czech Republic (or saying Republic Czecha if they speak English badly...)

-In addition, the countries divided up in the early 90s, so unless you are in your late 30's or older you wouldn't have strong memories of living in a united country.

-Finally, if you are Czech, you wouldn't be taking a rediculous Chinese point of view constantly.

-Lastly if you are Czech, or Slovak. Prove it. How? Easy? How are you related to Joseph K, and what was he guilty of?

8 years 3 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

Ras: 100% right. Thjat's like an American saying I'm  the United States of American.

8 years 3 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

Silly boys! If you wanted J to 'prove' his nationality claims, wouldn't you be better off asking for a long diatribe in Czech or Slovak?? I'm sure we have a couple of others on here who can also speak/read such languages.

 

Asking history/politics only requires a quick search.

8 years 3 weeks ago
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rasklnik:

I don't know either language, and a few sentences could be google translate.

8 years 3 weeks ago
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Hotwater:

I don't know what the fuss is about! He says he's middle-aged.......

 

Czechoslovakia only broke up into its constituent parts in 1993 and I'm sure quite a few citizens of both countries still use that name at times.  

8 years 3 weeks ago
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Janosik:

@rasklnik

I think you have it all a bit wrong;

1) I said middle age, must admit upper middle age - soon will become 50, so I remember Czechoslovakia quite well and  even had to serve in Czechoslovakian army (30 for middle age would anyway mean quite poor life expectancy ...)

2) Czech and Slovak are very close languages, even though they are indeed different. But every Czech understand Slovaks without learning and every Slovak as well. May be for foreigners (other than Slovakian Hungarians are truly bilingual and many of them study in Czech universities) it can be difficult - do not know, there are too little foreigners speaking one or the other language.

 

Dividing (I think it was 1992 but I would have to check) was, as per my point of view, the biggest mistake both countries did so far ...

 

Honestly I have no idea whom you mean by saying Josef or Jozef K. ...(here both language may but also may not differ in spelling).

 

 

OK, did not persuade you ... Also did not really want to ...

Otherwise my question and point of view would a bit loose sense ...

 

8 years 3 weeks ago
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8 years 3 weeks ago
 
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Governor

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Seeing the world through rose colored glasses does not constitute opinion or judgement..it instead constitutes delusion.

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8 years 3 weeks ago
 
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Emperor

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Because... if you didn't think it was correct, then you wouldn't have that judgement

Englteachted:

Chinese people especially Wumaos don't understand the process of formulating an opinion. 

8 years 3 weeks ago
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Gregory Bateson - Double Bind.

 

"you're not allowed judge me, you idiot"

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8 years 3 weeks ago
 
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Governor

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What you and a lot of people don't seem to understand is that most of us here actually like living in China. We come here to vent and participate in a debate about the place we now call home. It's not our fault if you read it out of context.

 

Also, I'd just like to point out, learning a language as an adult is harder than learning as a child. There is no "Mandarin Training School" teaching us hanzi as children. Some Chinese people mistake the fact that they speak broken English while some of us don't speak Mandarin as a  sign of intellectual superiority. It's not. Most expats moved here on a whim, liked it, stayed, tried to pick up some language skills on the way.

 

This in no way hinders our ability to analyze the world around us.

Janosik:

Yes, I understand that many people are coming here to ventilate.

 

What concerns of language so it's indeed hard. 

I am not saying that all people have to learn it - some are simply too busy, some have no trouble to ask some of their friends and/or partners always when they need to arrange something and to live in very limited social environment.

 

Nevertheless except of the basic behavioral patterns I am afraid without knowing the language one may have only limited information in order to create opinion.

Reading then only Western media may not help much as many articles are simply biased.

I am sometimes quite surprised reading my home country newspapers articles about China.

8 years 3 weeks ago
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Answer of the DayMORE >>
A:  "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "S
A: "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "Shenzhen agent can connect you with an employer, who's authorized to hire waigouren ... and can sponsor Z visa." It's not like every 10th person you meet in Shenzhen's hood can sponsor work visa ...  The only way to change from student to labourer visa is just a regular way by: 1. Finding an employer, who'll apply for an Invitation letter; 2. Exit China and apply for Z visa in your home country's Chinese embassy; 3. Enter China in 30-days after Z visa was stamped into your travelling instrument ...As I am aware, you won't be able to switch to Working permit by remaining in China....,so make ready for a return to your home .... -- icnif77