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Q: "Don't work with agencies"... should've listened...
Hi folks. I came back to China in January and things have not gone well at all. It's been a mess and I'd like some advice if you have any, I'd also like this to be a warning to anyone considering working for a uni through an agent.
I signed a one-year contract with an agency (my first time doing that in my 7 years in China) to work in a uni and arrived in Jan. They said the uni's classes were cancelled (not enough students) so sent me to a diploma school in the south of the city. Which was a shit-hole, one of the lowest ranked in the province. I was told by both the uni and agency that the uni agreed with this and the agent insisted I needed to go there in order to get paid. What struck me as particularly strange was that the agent asked me not to mention it to the uni teacher who organised classes for FTs.
Well, it turned out that sending me to the diploma school wasn't legal. After I mentioned the situation to my colleagues, some of them went to the uni to ask about it, and someone from the uni called the police - who visited the diploma school and found they didn't have the paperwork to employ me. The agent told me to stop working there immediately.
For the next month I talked and argued with the agent and uni and eventually the uni told me that the agency must pay me for May and June, even though I was no longer doing the classes in the diploma school (who were paying the agency to get me - I was the only foreigner in the whole place). My fellow FTs also insist the agency must pay regardless.
But the agent has been trying to worm out of paying me. He keeps saying that he'll lose his job if the agency has to pay. He offered me to sign a one-year contract in a small low-tier city, saying this was the only way for me to get my pay for the two remaining months. Of course I won't accept that.
I'm sure there's stuff going on in the background between the agency, uni, school etc that I don't know about. This is China after all. Do you think the uni and my colleagues are right? Is the agency obliged to pay? If you need more info just ask.
4 years 47 weeks ago in Visa & Legalities - China
The first thing I'd be worrying about is my visa status.
Who got you your visa? The uni or the agent? If it's the uni do you still even have a visa? They might have just canceled it on you and the agent hasn't told you.
The salary thing....I feel like it should be the responsibility of the agent to pay you if there's any money owing but realistically I doubt that will happen. You're holding out for money to be paid for May and June when you weren't even working. Does your contract with the agency cover that situation? Even if it does it sounds like you'd be wasting your time trying to get blood from a stone by fighting for it.
Honestly mate, the best thing you can do is plan to quit that agent asap. I would be looking for a new job now if I were you. Find a school that can legally employ you and move on.
RandallFlagg:
Thanks for your reply. The visa issue did come up back in April. Another FT got very ill and the uni wanted me to cover most of his classes. When I told them I was required to work in the diploma school, they told me my visa and paperwork are registered with the uni so therefore I should help them out. Actually I think the uni and agency are both kind of deceptive.
As for the pay, the agent said today if I don't agree to keep working with them, I'll get some of it, but I guess far less than the full salary. From a business POV I understand their not wanting to pay. But they are the ones who allowed me to work in a school without the right paperwork - it's their mistake. Anyway, if I got over half of the expected salary, I might accept it, been through enough crap this term. Thanks again.
The first thing I'd be worrying about is my visa status.
Who got you your visa? The uni or the agent? If it's the uni do you still even have a visa? They might have just canceled it on you and the agent hasn't told you.
The salary thing....I feel like it should be the responsibility of the agent to pay you if there's any money owing but realistically I doubt that will happen. You're holding out for money to be paid for May and June when you weren't even working. Does your contract with the agency cover that situation? Even if it does it sounds like you'd be wasting your time trying to get blood from a stone by fighting for it.
Honestly mate, the best thing you can do is plan to quit that agent asap. I would be looking for a new job now if I were you. Find a school that can legally employ you and move on.
RandallFlagg:
Thanks for your reply. The visa issue did come up back in April. Another FT got very ill and the uni wanted me to cover most of his classes. When I told them I was required to work in the diploma school, they told me my visa and paperwork are registered with the uni so therefore I should help them out. Actually I think the uni and agency are both kind of deceptive.
As for the pay, the agent said today if I don't agree to keep working with them, I'll get some of it, but I guess far less than the full salary. From a business POV I understand their not wanting to pay. But they are the ones who allowed me to work in a school without the right paperwork - it's their mistake. Anyway, if I got over half of the expected salary, I might accept it, been through enough crap this term. Thanks again.
Sorry to hear about your woes. As your name implies, you should be the walkin' dude and gtfo from there.
You have several years of experience here and let yourself be chinared. Give yourself an uppercut, put it down to a part of the experience and walk away walkin' dude. Hanging hopes unscrupulous entities for cash is probably a pipe dream. As was said above, get a new gig. You know how it works here. Don't punish yourself. I sincerely wish you luck and hope it works itself out quickly.
RandallFlagg:
Heh, yeah, I chose the name for a reason. I'm used to wanderin'. It would make more sense to accept my loss (and my mistake, I suppose) and head on out of China. This country gets more depressing every year. But like so many, I say I'm going to leave every year - and still keep coming back ;-)
I think your chances of getting the agency to pay are about two-thirds of four-fifths of zilch. So I agree with TPP that you should probably cut your losses and chalk it up to experience.
Lastly, I know I'm preaching to the choir, but another agency/name to avoid at all costs is Perlandas Harris and his wife Fenny. He is a dangerous crook.
RandallFlagg:
Interesting, his name looks European. Did you have some experience with them personally?
kmcgeary:
I had a lucky escape in 2009 when I was about to work with him, got annoyed by his lack of punctuality so Googled him to find a bunch of horror stories on forums that are no longer online.
RandomGuy:
Perlandas is a well known scammer, has been around for like 15 years at least, hasn't changed a bit, still doing the same scam with the same posts, must be working out for them I guess. I'm amazed that China has let a foreigner run a scam for so long unpunished.
kmcgeary:
And I was something of a luddite when I was in my twenties. I had no mobile phone or laptop at the time so had to go to an Internet bar (remember those?) to check if the worldwide web had anything to say about this guy. I'm glad I did.
I think your chances of getting the agency to pay are about two-thirds of four-fifths of zilch. So I agree with TPP that you should probably cut your losses and chalk it up to experience.
Lastly, I know I'm preaching to the choir, but another agency/name to avoid at all costs is Perlandas Harris and his wife Fenny. He is a dangerous crook.
Dial SAFEA in your province and ask them for an advice and help.
Enter 'SAFEA' in search above for address and phone numbers of provincial HQs around China.
I had used SAFEA's weblink many times while I was working in China and I've always received full Gov.'s support.
Other name for 'SAFEA' is Foreign Expert Bureau. They approved your Working permit (or ABC card) and they will resolve the matter promptly.
You will also experience 180 degrees change in treatment from your placement agency and employer. Chinese employers all hate calls from the Gov.
Good luck!
RandallFlagg:
Thanks icnif. Good to know they always supported you. I'll call them if all else fails. Right now it seems I will get some of the pay but probably not all.
By the way, I'm curious about the experiences you've had in China that forced you to call SAFEA for help. Could you give a few examples? I've been in the country about 7 years but never even considered calling them before. Working directly for colleges usually avoids a lot of problems.
icnif77:
Reason to call Gov. was usually always School's contract disrespect and I've always asked Gov. for 'help and advice', despite I was fully aware of my contract's rights, i.e. "play stupid". It's not wise to act too smart with the Gov., he he.
Our SAFEA's link is Provincial HQ and you will most likely encounter English speaking Chinese representative by dialing the phone no.
Listed email address is not of use because nobody is monitoring and replying to incoming emails.
I opened new thread here every time I had to call SAFEA. I called them first time in Zhejiang (Hangzhou, while working on F visa!), Liaoning (Dalian), Xinjiang (Fuk), Fujian (Jianou), Henan (Kaifeng), Guizhou (Bijie) and maybe some others I can't recall now.
I have always received positive outcome, except in last school in Bijie, Guizhou. Mastards, they didn't pay 5000 RMB return ticket and SAFEA replied: 'We cannot make School pay ....', so I gave up on retrieving that funds.
I also refused some new offers for work in China until I get return ticket funds from the Private High School in Bijie, Guizhou.
If you are in the mood, have stroll through brazilion of my threads here and you will find many threads I had to call SAFEA.
Search on the top is inept and it will display thread only if 'SAFEA' is listed in the thread's title.
RandallFlagg:
Interesting. You've lived in so many parts of the country, way more than myself (just Zhengzhou and Guangzhou). If you could choose one of those places to settle down in, where would it be?
icnif77:
I would not settle in China .... I looked to Chinese gig only through the money, i.e make money and run.
Chinese look at the laowai the same, and they gave me that idea! 
I can't open comment part, so here is new post considering receiving your pay:
In 2014, I worked in Henan, Kaifeng High school on IELTS prep course. I had Residence permit and all proper documents for legal work in China with full time contract (8k RMB per month for 14 classes weekly).
After School's rep. told me when is the beginning of 2nd semester, I went to Himalaya, and return to campus 10-days before the start of new semester.
However, school was unable to provide working schedule, so I stayed in my apartment waiting for the class call.
School is required to pay full salary if FT is unable to conduct classes by school's negligence.
In other words, if I would be ill or for any other personal reason I would not conduct classes, school is entitled to withdraw monthly payments.
I sat in my room roughly 40-days, buTT ... I asked for the full payment with winter recess half salary pay. School wasn't in the mood for that and call to SAFEA followed.
As I understood, SAFEA coached school about their responsibilities, so they set-up two large, 4 hours classes in auditorium as my first classes in 2nd semester.
My contract stated, I will be working in International class on IELTS prep. I had 10 students the most.
I wouldn't mind to conduct larger class, but I already argued with the school about payment.
Instead overtaking the large class, I submitted Resignation notice with immediate contract termination.
Month later, I received full pay with all bonuses until my Resignation date, including the days I was waiting for the schedule.
I had to call SAFEA after that again, because school didn't want to issue Release and Recommendation letter, which were/are required at 'changing of employer and place of work without exiting China' on Residence permit extension in new province (Guizhou).
There is thread somewhere about that.
Maybe search with word 'Kaifeng, Henan' will show you that thread, but I described all steps in real time, he he.
I'm amazed that sort of shitshow still exists, China seems to be stuck in the dark ages of legality.
icnif77:
In my view, it's the 'face culture', or in other words 'screw anybody and everybody just to save your face ... !'
That is much different than the western culture we were brought up.
An update for y'all on this ongoing drama.
Last Friday the agent called me, said I'd only get the full pay if I go back to work in that diploma school (the one the cops were called to). Things got heated, threats were exchanged and he said the college won't give me a reference or offer another contract. He even said I should "consider leaving the apartment soon" (i.e. the college would force me to move out). I talked to college staff and they had no idea what he was talking about. They said everything he was telling me was BS and trying to poison me against them.
Then on Monday the agent visited me. He'd gotten "the call" from the college. No more arguing. He said he'd pay (nearly) all of the 2 months pay. We talked and parted fairly amicably.
So it all seems to be resolved and hopefully I can get on with my life. If you're new to China (or an old hand), always think carefully about working through an agent. It might work out fine but there's no guarantee. Thanks for your replies and advice.
ambivalentmace:
If the new place has a good relationship with the psb, they usually persuade the previous place to accommodate or lose the opportunity to make make money off a white monkeys legally for say 6 months or a year suspension from hiring foreigners, sometimes the suspension is permanent. The training schools that let PSB kids take English lessons free obviously have the best relationship. Congratulations, now you know they perceive you as having a value for making money, you can use this to your advantage, better to be prime beef than the gristle they tolerate.
Stiggs:
Good to hear it worked out, well mostly worked out.
I'm really surprised you got any money out of them. That's a result.
