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Q: Let's get with this now, an open debate

First of all I apologies to Vallyntin for copying his remarks though he shared on a public forum but still I should have asked his permission. Secondly exclusively for those who are saints, gentlemen and cannot hear a story of a dog been brutally killed.

 

The below stated comments are given by a soldier( I  guess as the comments represent.)

 

I would really appreciate those Human Rights activists and mercenaries of so called civilization to give their precious remarks. DO NOT SAVE FACE PLEASE.

 

Some people here are really naive at China if a dog is horribly killed by police or a women cut the fingers of her son which of course is horrific. Some think China has no religious tolerance for they are going to demolish an illegitimate church. The way UK and France ban Muslim girls to observe veils is what you call religious tolerance? Lets not talk about religion for I am not advocating it. 

 

The main theme of the debate is over generalization of events and banging more than 1000 million people in result of individual acts. Do not say it is a forum for China only as it is not an excuse. Also I am a non NAIVE Speaker so please do not impose the language over me.

 

How about I label all of the Western countries and the US as murderers, Rapists, and brutes on accounts of the war crimes their forces have committed in the last decade?

 

You have just watch and read news regarding 9/11 and wars but this guy has been in the field. Its not only the 'Hollywierd' showing you the stories but their are numerous brutal war crimes your countrymen have committed. You supported them for providing funds called taxes so if you have a heart look in to the mirror and compare what you have done to humanity before you could step on the tail of others. 

 

Here is a harsh reality a Native Speaker came up with;

 

 

Vallyntin:

 

No, I don't think being Christian (or of another faith) in any way reflects on one's level of civility. I said that because I knew some (seemingly) very decent and civil men while I was a soldier- people that you wouldn't think could harm a fly.. Until you catch them going out to rape 7-year old girls while their parents are lying cold dead in the other room. American, British, Fin, Greek, whatever.. At least I judge my own culture frankly and hope for a better future.

 

  

Vallyntin:

 

Have you ever been directly and physically involved in a war 'Shining?' I get the feeling not, because having had years of experience in war, I felt the experience was a very great and deep reflection on what it meant to be human. The way my government treated me was de-humanizing, but when your job is to kill or be killed.. War and death are an intricate part of civilization. Where do you think we would be if there had never been a single war amongst humanity? Probably still living in tree's.

 

PS: Your down votes are warmly welcomed.

5 years 32 weeks ago in  General  - China

 
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"non Naive speaker" hehe

 

I shall thumb up that. 

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5 years 32 weeks ago
 
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Let me start by saying that we have only one world...Mother Earth, Gaia. Most of us use whatever form of release to let off steam. Sometimes, the words used may be callous, unforgiving and yet deep in our hearts and minds we want to see change...some of us want it immediately, perhaps because we are no longer in the comfort zone we are so used to having. While most of us may be transient here, it's does not mean that we are oblivious to what's happening around us. In all parts of the world, terrible and horrific events occur with regularity. They happen not because these people are culturally backwards nor are they 

lacking in compassion. If you noticed, almost all brutality, horror killings and domestic violence are results of emotionally charged people. Of course, you cannot compare these with premeditated events like 9/11, Afghanistan, Somalia etc. for these are the work of fanatics who have different agendas. We demonstrate our emotions when things happen in China, such as those pointed out by the OP. However, I am pretty sure we'd do the same when soldiers kill innocent people, however brutal or gruesome they may be. It can happen in the US (gunning down kids, not once but a few times, random shootings in fast food joints, etc), in Somalia (rape, dismemberment, mutilation, etc)....the list goes on. And does these events horrify you? I'm sure it does. What I'm saying is that we don't go all out to condemn an entire nation of people because of a few isolated cases. But as humans, we react as we know, that is, with horror and disbelief, which in turn leads to finger pointing and condemnation. Such is human nature. I dare say all of us share the same trait as humans. In China's case, we live here and will react with such vehemence at atrocities as we would back in our homeland. Perhaps, in this captive space, we seem to be louder and more indignant when human rights are violated. 

 

Like Vallyntin, I've seen action in Cambodia. I've seen what a human can do to another human. I regret to say that I am refrained from illustrating for obvious reasons. After my return to sanity, I look at life very differently. When death smiles on you too many times, little things we ignore previously becomes important. I dare say that religion has very little to do with what's happening here. 

 

The good thing is while we squabble over words and trade insults over events in China, when catastrophes occur, it's all hands on deck. To name a few, Kobe earthquake, MH370, 2004 tsunami, etc. You see, we fight over inconsequential things but when in need, there are always helping hands, putting aside differences for the sake of mankind. That's the world we live in for we are but one species, we are humans.

 

So, OP, maybe you've read between the lines too much. Don't get your emotions stirred up because of a few lines of harsh words here. I am sure everyone on this forum share the very same beliefs you have. We are a very small community in a vast nation of 1.4 billion people. Surely, we can lean on each other, no? 

 

OP, over to you for your thoughts.

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5 years 32 weeks ago
 
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You always get opposite of your request:angel

 

'PS: Your down votes are warmly welcomed. '

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5 years 32 weeks ago
 
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Awesome post. Will follow.

 

 

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5 years 32 weeks ago
 
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I'm not sure if you are a troll, or just a Pakistani with their usual beefs against the U.S., but I will respond to a couple of points you made.

 

First of all, every law abiding person must pay taxes. Taxes pay for public services such as garbage removal, schools, police and fire protectors and so on.  Citizens do not decide how much money is devoted to fund a war.  Putting responsibility of any wars on me for paying my taxes is a very weak argument.  All responsibility of war should be placed squarely where it belongs:  it's participants and active supporters. Anyone who participates in or actively supports war is a warmonger.

 

Second point.  Dogs are eaten for dinner here.  A dog strung up like chicken or brutally beaten will not get a second look by the locals.  This is China.  But it's also a good indicator of the level of humanity when animals that are traditionally pets are treated in such manner.  Of course they will also look the other way when a child is being repeatedly run over, so...

 

China is an ignorant society.  Ignorant humans do backwards things.  But where the shock comes in is when you take into account how old China is.  4000 years, and still at this stage?

 

Sure, no country or culture is perfect.  All political systems are broken.  But some are more broken than others.  And some places are simply more comfortable to live than others.

 

 

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5 years 32 weeks ago
 
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So, from a couple of news item, some active members here made sweeping generalization about China and Chinese society. Agree, the finger cutting and the dog bashing ones were over the top, it's not like you see that every single day in China. However, I think I'm not the only one thinking that those news item are acute manifestations of some serious problems in Chinese society. What problems ? Well, rule of the law, extraordinary levels of bystander effect, total lack of consideration for your fellow human and life, etc... Since the topic is *impossible* to address and even evoke with the locals, since it's somehow always swept under the carpet, I need... to find a hole and shout about it. Can't look and do nothing say nothing. So my hole is eChinacities. I don't think I'm the only one...

You mention some "glorious" feats of some Western nations. Yup, the various Middle-Eastern conflicts, the war waged by drones with no regards for civilians, and local authorities, it's disgusting, and I won't pretend it does not exists. Exasperating disregards for the complexities of local history is all too common. It's reported, debated, etc etc. It's possible to talk about it, it's not hidden under a carpet. My elder generations did things awful to other people. I know it, I won't try to make it nicer, I won't try to forget it. But I'm not guilty of the crimes of what my elders did, I'm did not choose my elders. It's debated, studied, with varied point of views and little taboos. During my lifetime, paid with taxes I contributed, some of my fellow countrymen followed orders, questionable ones... Some people went in the streets to say no to this, and they didn't go to jail for "disturbance of public harmony", unlike in China. See the difference ? It's reported, not hidden under a carpet. In China, one can just look and shut-up.

Epilog
"I would really appreciate those Human Rights activists and mercenaries of so called civilization to give their precious remarks"

* Human Rights activists => nope, not an activist, never mentioned those rights

* mercenaries of so called civilization => mercenaries get paid. I'm not paid to bring my own idea of civilization.
I'm not a native english  speaker, definitely a bit on the naive side. I'm an idealist...

 

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5 years 32 weeks ago
 
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In this thread: a savage accusing western countries of savagery when that's the only way you can deal with savages: with savagery.

 

When we come to your countries and kill your men, your women, and your children, it's because you deserve it. You deserve it. You fuckjobs use your own women and children as human shields. You put bombs around them, you force soldiers to kill children by sending children after us with explosive vests, then accuse us of being child-murderers.

 

You send pregnant women with explosive vests to harm as many people as possible, and cry foul when your pregnant women are shot in the head to stop them from killing innocent people.

 

Rape is wrong, but this happens all over the world. It happens in the Middle East, in Asia, Europe, Africa, and in North America. This is one of the problems with humans. However, Middle East and Asian countries take this extreme shitfuckery to a whole new level.

 

You are worse than China when it comes to nutfuckery. You've been cutting each other's heads off for thousands of years, and that's exactly where you're going to be in another 1000, if we haven't wiped you all the fuck out  by then.

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5 years 32 weeks ago
 
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Let's talk about facts...

Russia pulled down most of their Stalin and Lenin statues

Germany doesn't have Hitler statues

What is there a statue of of in almost every city in China?

Ah....you see? There is a difference between doing bad things, and being sorry, and doing bad things and pretending they never happened.

 

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5 years 32 weeks ago
 
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You know who could settle this debate once and for all? The heros at the China Foreign Teachers Union (CFTU).

 

I've seen them settle vague, opinionated ideological debates at all of their meetings with a few simple choice words and maybe an obscure televsion reference, like about Xena or stupid ass Babylon 5.

 

This forum is lousy with hobos and netizens who shunned the only men who wanted to help them.

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5 years 32 weeks ago
 
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You know what I find funny?

 

You keep coming back here, but you aren't wanted. You're so desperate to argue with people who don't care about your rants, and who don't want to listen to them. We simply don't care.

 

It reminds me of this mentally unstable individual who really wanted us to care about his personal crusades against people like you.

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5 years 32 weeks ago
 
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Taking extremes and using them to characterize regular folk is called cherrypicking. You misrepresent the facts to prove a point you have invested your name in. Chinese media does this about 'foreignland' and the 'savages' invading it's pristine borders. Some posters here are guilty of cherrypicking to discredit China and Chinese, too. Extremes do not represent a culture. It's like saying that people are only truthful when you get them really angry.

There do appear to be patterns in the violence that a few Chinese display, from the news reports we can read. But none of us are truly objective in assessing such violent and emotionally provocative acts, so although we can make assumptions, our opinions will be far from conclusive.

And once again: Political schemes, false flag operations and wars are bad enough as it is, but I'm even more concerned when politics rubs off on human interaction and behaviour, which it did after 9/11, and the CCP has also clearly hardened Chinese society. These changes in human interaction usually diminish social trust, divide and stratify society even further, and cause people to turn to the government for support (which is offensive, since the government started the scare in the first place). It's divide and conquer. Governments do it to take away civil 'liberties' (a typical rebranding of the term 'civil rights' so as to make people seem undeserving of the entitlement), and they don't give a rat's arse what the effects are upon civil society. The only defence against it is solidarity, and the only solidarity that is still understood in China is family and guanxi/relationships.

Union workers understood the strength of solidarity, and that's why governments were so scared of unions, socialism and communism (not CCP; the real thing): If white collar workers stick up for blue collar workers, they can expect the same support when the government targets them. If young people were to help defend old people's pensions, it would benefit them in the long run. If local citizens helped to protect the rights of immigrants, it would be good for everyone in the long run. Sadly, none of this can be seen in China, where the CCP is extremely repressive when defending the monopoly of the rich. The USA has a long history of battling solidarity in all its forms, and Europe is also going in that direction.

Weak people are profitable consumer units. A strong group is an expensive threat to the rich.

And finally, we should all acknowledge our place in allowing the inhumanity to occur. You see, Chinese may be willfully ignorant, but we expats are being complacent, which is just as bad. At the end of our day, if we choose to relax with a TV show, a game, an online rant about ethics or a hottie we met on the streets, while we know there are so many problems in need of a solution, we must admit that we aren't actively trying to make things better anymore. We share the guilt of an onlooker. Even if the safety of loved ones are at stake when we speak out (true in my case), then we're still admitting defeat. We convinced ourselves that it's too dangerous to try to do anything, so we're complacent. We rant and rave, practice armchair psychology and have the solutions to fix the world from our gaming laptops, safe in our homes, enjoying online anonymity...

we're no heroes. Not me, not you, nobody on this board. We're all TALK, no ACTION. We don't even have workable solutions to offer: "Change [insert problem]" - yes, but how? Scarily, politicians, bankers and businessmen have more insights into the complexities of the situation, but lack any willingness to alter the system that's making them rich. They're greedy and inhuman; we're uncorrupted but complacent/ignorant, and nothing changes.

Perhaps I'm hypocritical by saying this, but the best we can do is keep the awareness alive, treat each other with respect despite differing opinions, and refrain from judging one another as much as possible.

Oh, and if any of you haven't seen the Zeitgeist movies yet, give them a peek! Wink

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5 years 32 weeks ago
 
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I 100% agree with the hulks "harsh" comment. Although I have never served in the forces many family members and friends ofmine have. I also have a keen interest in politics and history. I am curious as to why the hulk's comments have so many bad replies but the votes seem to be 50/50 (as of my post). I know why, it is from a strange attitude that has come about in the west. For some reason it is taboo to make negative comments about muslims now. Bracing myself for the liberal backlash.

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5 years 32 weeks ago
 
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OK, I normally would stay away from a thread like this but I just can't help my self this one time.

 

Let me start with a quote from Issac Asimov:

 

"John, when people thought the earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the earth was spherical, they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together. "
 

US, and the EU and any other western country isn't "perfect", meaning yes there are too many bad or wrong policies restricting freedoms, personally I strongly disagree with a lot of laws and polices in "The West". But at the same time some places, some countries are better then others. Most western countries enjoy much more freedoms and social rights than does China. Yes, when it comes to personal freedom, freedom of speech and social rights the west still can improve, but it is also true that it is already much better than China.

 

As for the question regarding Chinese people, well I somewhat disagree with a lot of the opinions posted here. I don't think Chinese people are as bad as many here would have it, and I regularly meet very nice Chinese individuals. But at the same time I agree that when it comes to common courtesy (even if I correct it for cultural differences) the Chinese culture has a long way to go, things when improved would make life nicer for everyone, including the Chinese.

 

And last, I am also super critical of the CPC, and I do honestly see them as a threat to freedom of speech, as well as other personal freedoms globally. But that has nothing to do with the Chinese people themselves.

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5 years 32 weeks ago
 
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It always is and will always be about perception. 

 

As your thoughts and view broaden, you will see more and understand more. We live in a time now when those who are victimized can spread the word almost instant (sure there is censorship but I am quite certain MUCH less than in the past). We live in a world where traveling and understanding others is available to the common person. 

 

Take heed in knowing that as the world continues there really is only two ultimate outcomes:

 

1) We learn to get along with each other and understand our differences. 

2) We end up totally destroying each other. 

 

The second outcome is almost impossible unless the world is somehow destroyed instantly without time for mankind to prepare. We have been trying to wipe out each other for thousands of years and obviously it doesn't work. So, kick back and relax... because you can't control either outcome. Slavery and tyrants will always fall and reason and understanding can never be buried forever. 

 

The mere fact that we HAVE the ability to debate over a forum while being many miles away proves this... In ancient times, they just had to believe what their leaders said about the "others". 

 

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5 years 32 weeks ago
 
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Wrong post.

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5 years 32 weeks ago
 
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You must have a lot of free time or you're mentally handicapped to post such topics.

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5 years 25 weeks ago
 
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how are you fidu my long time internet friend Smile

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5 years 25 weeks ago
 
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