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Q: Why some people believe that being aggressive and arrogant makes them more right?

I noticed that some people on this forum act very aggressively and (sometimes) arrogantly apparently believing that such an approach will make their statements more correct.

I do not mean occasional aggression, loosing nerves, these guys apparently made it their common approach.

 

Or may be they got a superiority complex - that can easily be the case for young guy coming to the country where he immediately lives better than the average Chinese and his/her task is to teach the others English (and apparently his/her English is much much better than majority of the people around).

 

Or is it 'just' low social skills level?

 

Sure you can find stupid guys everywhere but one would expect that majority of such people will not come to China ...

8 years 5 weeks ago in  Lifestyle - China

 
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Shifu

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Some people on this forum eat grumpy pills. Deal with it.

 

This is the internet. Expect people to be poorly informed, misinformed or just plain mental.

 

 

Stiggs:

This is true.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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seansarto:

Right. Then there's the people who think they've magically had their addholes removed.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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Janosik:

Yes, I assume you are right. You are certainly right for 'common' forums.

I was, apparently quite naively, expecting that on the forum for people who either have good education (be it expats or Chinese) or long years experience, for expat then living abroad and being forced to coup with a lot of differences (smaller or bigger) in their everyday life, the communication culture could be a bit higher.

Apparently not the case.

What actually is quite interesting phenomena - apparently every group diversifies in kind of similar way creating its higher, medium and lower levels. 

8 years 5 weeks ago
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royceH:

That's me.  Uninformed and mental.  Hahhah... Yep.  And this realization doesn't make me feel unhappy.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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8 years 5 weeks ago
 
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Can you be a bit more specific and give some examples?

Do you mean any particular poster?

 

I always find the best way to solve a problem is focus on a specific incident or occurrence and then examine the possible causes, rather than make a sweeping generalisation, such as saying 'all Americans are ....... (fill in the blank)'

 

Do you feel you were the focus of someone's comments?

Were your points not addressed or ignored?

 

posters sometimes ask for help, and then neglect to give some relevant details or specifics necessary to solve the problem, which can lead to people having to second guess exactly what the problem is.

 

2 words i don't use when confronting someone - ' always' and 'never' - that is why examples are helpful

 

Can you help us to help you with your question?

Janosik:

No, I do not feel offended or attacked if this is what you mean.

And even if I do not expect I would care much on anonymous Internet forum ...

I really noticed that certain posters are formulating their replies and comments in quite aggressive way.

I find it strange because aggressiveness belongs more to the animal world rather than to civilized conversation.

And these people are not just few so there must be something what makes them believe that this is acceptable, efficient and advantageous way of communication.

Just wondering what could be the reason. 

8 years 5 weeks ago
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sorrel:

you say 'certain posters' 

this is still quite vague.

Aggressive in what way?

 

if you could give specifics, it would be helpful.

can you include a particular thread, of you don't want to name any particular posters.

 

help us to help you so we can explore this as a forum

 

8 years 5 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

You're wasting your time Sorrel. Jano lacks the capability of formulating a logical argument so he has resorted to crying. 

Jano: answer this question

8 years 5 weeks ago
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Janosik:

No, I do not talk in particular about Engleteachted (the guy looks to be quite self centered anyway ...) even though some of his comments or replies certainly fall into this category.

I would also not decide to post a question due to one or two users.

Unlike you I do not find that helpful to dig out of the forum the particular threads (even though there are many). 

It cannot help to the issue as it would inevitably lead to name calling and any reasonable communication would cease (btw look at the example of Engleteachted - the guy apparently does not understand the basics economy but what is much worse is even unable to admit that [despite of writing that he does not understand this field!] and all communication came in a vain).

I am more interested in this phenomena as such.

Why educated, probably smart guys believe that being arrogant, aggressive and offending others is a good way to communicate?

Coin's point of view looks to be one of the possible reasons (when we forget the extremes of course).

Or may be it's another culture difference between different expats (was never investigating from which part of the world these guys are coming). May be in some cultures it works, do not know.

Pls do not get me wrong. 

I very much agree with what nzteacher80 wrote but I was under the impression, apparently false one, that the forum consisting of educated and/or experienced people who are by their nature a bit 'special', because the average person in the West simply will not pack his/her luggage and will not come to China to work, shall be a bit different?

Or may be it's really that superiority feeling which some people may get, I assume especially the younger ones.

It may not be easy to handle the situation when the guy in his/her own country would be treated more as an apprentice but in China he/she is the one who controls the other and who is clearly superior to the others (when taking the example of English teachers - not sure if all the posters with this approach are teachers - probably not).

Therefore asking the others for the opinion.

It's as simple as this.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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8 years 5 weeks ago
 
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The Cultural Revolution scared people. Being right is a bluff game.

Whenever there is a confrontation, the person who can stand confident and remain vocal will usually win. The opponent will back down for fear of being publicly executed or thrown in prison for organ harvesting. the former happened often before, the latter may still be happening.

nzteacher80:

So you're the one that wrote Donald Trump's campaign strategy?

8 years 5 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

Ha ha nzteach. Wish I could like comments :-)

 

 

8 years 5 weeks ago
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ambivalentmace:

nz teacher, that is president trump, unfortunately,

8 years 5 weeks ago
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8 years 5 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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Some people on this forum eat grumpy pills. Deal with it.

 

This is the internet. Expect people to be poorly informed, misinformed or just plain mental.

 

 

Stiggs:

This is true.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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seansarto:

Right. Then there's the people who think they've magically had their addholes removed.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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Janosik:

Yes, I assume you are right. You are certainly right for 'common' forums.

I was, apparently quite naively, expecting that on the forum for people who either have good education (be it expats or Chinese) or long years experience, for expat then living abroad and being forced to coup with a lot of differences (smaller or bigger) in their everyday life, the communication culture could be a bit higher.

Apparently not the case.

What actually is quite interesting phenomena - apparently every group diversifies in kind of similar way creating its higher, medium and lower levels. 

8 years 5 weeks ago
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royceH:

That's me.  Uninformed and mental.  Hahhah... Yep.  And this realization doesn't make me feel unhappy.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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8 years 5 weeks ago
 
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Jano is referring to me. He posted incorrect information and I called him out on it. I'm correct when my facts are correct (not always). My arrogance is part of my personality. Also I have very little patience for stupid people, plagiarizers who post crap from the internet in a misleading way without giving links (Jano), Chinese who who pose as foreigners (Jano). I've been arrogant for over 40 years (yep as a newborn). 

Your feelings are hurt? Here's a band aid. 

Janosik:

No, I am not talking about you in particular.

Even though some of your posts certainly fall into this category.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

I asked a question about one of your  post. Was the information you posted correct? 

8 years 5 weeks ago
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This was Jano's response to my post about negative interest rates. 

"Vow!

I do not blame you for lack of knowledge as economics apparently is not your field, as you also rightly write:

'I'm not in this field so I don't know the details of how it works.'

 

But I am absolutely astonished at your arrogance.

If a person does not understand something so the best approach is to politely ask. Not to shout arrogant nonsense to the world.

 

If you Bing, Baidu, Google a bit so you may find out that real money (physically existing banknotes and coins) are just a small fractions of all the money existing.

For instance FED calls them M0 and in 2013 there were about 1.2 Trillion USD.

But M2 (which includes M0, M1 [money in checking account, travelers checks etc.] and money market funds, saving accounts) so the amount is already 10.5 Trillions USD. And these are still not all the money ...

 

So as you can see 'electronic' money really do exist.

 

And negative interest rates have nothing to do with the costs of keeping and protecting physical money ."

 

In this post he says only a small fraction of money exist as bank notes . And he says this is called M0. 

 

Jano: Is that information correct or incorrect? (simple question)

 

 

silverbutton1:

"If you Bing, Baidu, Google a bit so you may find out that real money (physically existing banknotes and coins) are just a small fractions of all the money existing." Ive seen and read alot of info, and believe this to be true.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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@OP:

So if I understand what you are saying, you don’t post questions because some of the users on this site?

“I would also not decide to post a question due to one or two users.”

Why is that?

 

And with Engleteachted:

If you don’t think Engleteachted understands basic economics, why don’t you engage with him directly and sort it out?

A direct question deserves a direct answer.

 

Usually when I have a concern, I find it better to engage with the person directly and confront the aggression with reasoned arguments.

 

As I commented to another poster recently, an internet forum is like a bank:

You get out of it what you put in.

 

I look behind the words at the intention and meaning of the poster.

If they provide reliable, useful or accurate information they have fulfilled the function of the forum for me. What they are doing in China (as long as it is not illegal), or what they did before they were in China is irrelevant.

 

I am not online to make friends – although some of the posters have since become friends – but to share and read different experiences, not all of which I will agree with, but i don't let that stop me from posting.

Janosik:

I am not exactly sure how your answer relates to the topic ... Of course it can be sometimes interesting for somebody to learn about another person motivation (may be ...). No, I do not argue with Englteachted. I was trying to explain him that physical money are only very very small part of all financial transactions and their "storage" has absolutely nothing to do with the idea of negative interests. I apparently failed but it does not disturb me - I am not the teacher and do not have the urge to educate strangers. By the way that goes also for Chinese so I never really understood some of the guys on this forum with their "messiah complex". But that's also different story ... Also I did not really get your part about making friends online so leave it appart ... What I was writing is that I find it quite interesting phenomena. Some people apparently like to make quick judgements and protect them aggressively. I tried to find something about that and came across quite interesting book from Elias Canetti "Crowds and Power". There, in one short storry, he writes about something similar. Apparently it's quite common thing - as mentioned earlier I just thought it should be relatively rare on forum like this but I was clearly mistaken.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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sorrel:

this forum is quite polite and restrained compared to many out there as there has always been a certain degree of self-regulation.

 

The written word lacks the paralanguage that a face to face communication contains, hence the necessity to probe further with follow up questions, especially if the post/comment is vague. 

 

Sometimes subtle answers go over the head of the poster so the answers are given in a more assertive manner.

Some posters ask the same question again and again and again showing no indication of having understood or considered the answers they were given in the first place.

 

And there is a recognizable difference between an assertive and aggressive answer.

 

There was a recent poster who took offense at every answer/comment posted, regardless of how mild or helpful it was, even when it was not directed at them.

I have found that if people actively go looking to be offended, they will be. 

 

if you are looking for butt-hurt, you will find it.

 

Very often first time posters get angry when people try to probe for more information, which can be reasonable if the questions are vague or lack relevant details.

How are people supposed to help without all they need to know for a useful answer?

8 years 5 weeks ago
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oops - double post for some reason

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Sorry if I may sound rude, impolite or arrogant, but I think we should cut the OP a little slack until he finds his feet in this forum. Clearly, he is a local person dipping his toe into expat waters and is figuring out etiquette, satire, sarcasm, irony and all those other things which can't be learned from a book. His writing is quite good in spite of the butt-hurt tone in many replies. At least he responds to his on threads and expresses his opinions honestly. Sure, some get my hackles up but the same can be said for almost every regular.

Jano, have at it, take nothing personally and engage in discussions and arguments. Both myself and another user went head to head for days about creationism recently and it was one of the most rewarding discourses i have had in this forum and i left it with a lot of respect for him although we both still disgreed.

Janosik:

I have no problem with disagreement. Sometimes simply one believe into own arguments too much, sometimes the position are based on different principles and therefore no agreement can be reached whatsoever (for instance tiger can hardly agree with goat what is the best food). I can also understand that in heated discussion one may "slip" a bit in some formulations. This is not what I mean. I am also not personally hurt whatsoever. I am just surprised that adult, educated people may believe into such primitive tactics like aggressiveness and arogance. BTW, I do not feel like persuading you who I am as honestly I do not really care what the people on anonymous forum think about my origins. And one thing you may note - I read your post very positevely with the hint of encouragement. Still you did not refrain from from certain "patronization", indicating it shoukd be me to learn irony, sarcasm etc. I find it ammusing :)

8 years 5 weeks ago
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iWolf:

I wasn't being patronising at all. I was simply stating the obvious and attempting to encourage you. You know, it isn't necessary to justify yourself at each perceived slight....that's what i meant about "butt-hurt replies". Chill, my friend.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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iWolf:

P.S iWolf Tip #435: i have found when using my phone, once you hit Submit, don't rouch it again for a minute or two. There is a substantial lag. If you put 6 or 7 line spaces it (sometimes) will give you one line space when your comment loads.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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Janosik:

Yes, I understood you mean your reply positively :) Still it shows certain degree of superiority .... Never mind :) Thanks a lot for the hint! Looks to be working! P.S. In the meantime I realized that majority of the people on this forum will consider nearly everyone who does not mind to be called "lao wai" and stared at to be Chinese. Fair enough.- everybody's choice ...

8 years 5 weeks ago
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iWolf:

You said: "In the meantime I realized that majority of the people on this forum will consider nearly everyone who does not mind to be called "lao wai" and stared at to be Chinese" Where the hell did that come from? lol I understand why you perceive I come off as being superior, it's because I am. It's a curse.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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Janosik:

It definitely sounds like a curse! Also having similar.symptoms :)

8 years 5 weeks ago
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I haven't been following your personal beefs but from a psychological point of view, from my vantage point as an armchair psychologist, I can only say that aggression is often symptomatic of fear and in argument is often indicative of a person taking a position of defence in the face of a valid point.

I don't think that's the answer you're looking for though, I think you're more confused as to why members of this forum often seem tetchy and quick to throw insult. This subject has been covered every two weeks since I first visited this forum - the answer has something to do with being a foreigner living in China, I forget, and I'm quite sure you attended the last meeting, so I guess I've nothing new to add there.

I think the truth is that westerners are quite possibly more aggressive than the Chinese on the whole. Just look at the driving here, I see people drive like arseholes here every single day but nobody seems to get mad. Does China even have road rage?

And what about queue jumping? Nobody seems to get mad about it here, I get angry just 'waiting' for someone to try and push in front.

And then of course there's the staring. In England and many parts of the west, staring at a stranger is not only considered rude but is very often taken as an act of aggression and can quite easily cause the offending starer to get his teeth kicked in. In China people stare all the time, and I think I can speak for everyone here when I say that if you meet that stare with your worst, most aggressive 'fuck you' look, the response will pretty much always be passive, never aggressive. Many will say the Chinese are soft, and too scared to meet a confrontation, but I don't think that's the case. I do not see cowardice in most people's eyes when I give them my angry glare, which I often do when people stare. I simply think the average Chinese person is not so easily vexed.

Anyway, this is a forum for expats, and you're going to hear shit that upsets you here, because they come here to let off steam about life for an expat in China. Also, your being Chinese may wind people up, but only if you pretend you're not or try to hide the fact.

expatlife26:

yeah definitely agree, maybe deep down agressiveness is the same but definitely less confrontational. 

 

Westerners don't cut in line because that's a great way to get punched in the face. 

8 years 5 weeks ago
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ironman510:

Totally agree too.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

and i dont say that from a 'west is best' kinda place either.

 

it's nice I dont have to worry about getting into fist fights with strangers

 

but the downside is that there is no cost for rudeness, nobody will call you out on it.

 

Other downside is you get a docile population that's easy to bully. I don't think most other countries would put up with a lot of the things that Chinese people do.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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xinyuren:

Good points, mArtiAn. I guess that's why we view Chinese behavior as "passive aggressive". They have their own aggressive behavior and responses to it. I am of those tired of wumaos like Janosik trying to pass himself off as one of us. And he will deny it until the end as most Chinese do. But his posts give him away as easily as a scarlet "W" on his forehead.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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xinyuren:

@expat - a "bullyable" society was an intended consequence, if you know what I mean. Any other kind of society would never have put up with the things the Chinese common people have endured in their modern history.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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Janosik:

Oh, now I got it. If thete is a foreigner in China who does not care about being staref at and does not get angru with poeple greeting me on the street so such petson is Chinese, right? Actually your reply helped. I agree with you that the aggressiveness is probably either the sign of certain lack of proper mental abilities or simply the product.of weak personality. It would actually fit with some of the posters mentioning they are extremely upset being called "lao wai", greeted by the stranger or offending people just because they look at them. I think you are right! :)

8 years 5 weeks ago
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mArtiAn:

Janosik, if you read through my post again I think you might find it is not insulting but rather complimentary of the Chinese people. No need to get narky. I get why you're upset visiting this site, I actually used to complain on here quite a lot that many posters were unnecessarily rude about the Chinese, half of them have Chinese wives, but the fact is life in China is challenging for an outsider and venting ones frustrations is rarely pretty. What I mean is, if you wish to spend time on this forum you have to take it with a large pinch of salt. Otherwise you will find only annoyance and frustration.

8 years 4 weeks ago
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Janosik:

@mArtiAn

We say that every coin has two sides.

I am also living in China - not as long as you but about 4 years now.

Started in the places where just 10-15 people attending the English corner could speak English and my Chinese at that time sucked a lot (what I realized only after coming to China - started learning for one year in my home country and believed it's OK lower medium level ).

I am experiencing majority of the problems described at this forum. I also find strange that when sitting with my Korean friend, who does not speak Chinese at all so all waitresses are asking him for confirmation which he cannot provide.

But this simply does not make me angry ...

I find it more entertaining sometimes offering to the waiter to talk to my friend directly - after a short while he/she comes back to me with a smile, asking me for assistance.

The point I exactly do not understand from many people in here why they are so angry, so frustrated, so negative. There is no doubt that this clearly is a personal choice.

Just wondering why would anyone select to be grumpy over being happy and enjoying the environment.

Well, but apparently I will not change it laugh

8 years 4 weeks ago
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mArtiAn:

Oh, I assumed you were Chinese. You're not. Doesn't make any difference to me. As for the attitudes of some on here, it's down to dealing with life outside their comfort zone, just because you personally are able to roll with it with a smile, doesn't mean everyone else is. What can you do? People are who they are, you either accept them or you don't, you can't change them. I get fed up with this place sometimes (echinacities), it's a bit of a moan factory. Usually something interesting being said somewhere though. Where are you from anyway?

8 years 4 weeks ago
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Janosik:

I am from Center/Eastern Europe (geographically it's Center Europe but as we were in the past in USSR sphere of influence so we are usually referred to as Eastern Europe laugh).

Yes, I agree that people are different and the way their treat their outside environment also differs. 

Not that sure they can or cannot change though - as per my experience we all are changing during our lives (not only physically but also mentally).

But was not my point.

I have two big weaknesses - I really hate stupidity (do not know why - I am quite aware that just from definition of the 'average' majority of the people are not too smart - but cannot help myself therefore I call it weakness) and I find unbelievable that adult person can blame the environment for their own shortcomings.

For instance when some foreigner with little to no Chinese skills is offended by the term 'laowai' so I see no problem. However if there is somebody (either Chinese or foreigner speaking Chinese) who tells such a guy: "Hey, listen! You got it wrong. Lao Wai just means foreigner and there is no Chinese who sees it as an offense." but the guy still insists all Chinese are racists so I am speechless.

So easy to check it with virtually any Chinese because it really is not a bad word.

The same goes for greeting on the streets. 

Foreigners are simply rare in China (in majority of the places) so no wonder we are seen as attraction.

There is no way out! How can anybody survive here for years not being aware of it. And why would anyone like to live here if everyday there will be somebody 'offending' him or her ...

I realized that many things which disturbed me in here (not all thoughlaugh) were a problem because I did not really get the background.

I agree that if an expat cannot speak fluent Chinese so the life will be much more difficult and this person will also have much lower understanding of China environment, habits and behavior.

I see it in my own country - our language is quite difficult to learn (not as hard to learn as Chinese but certainly not easy) which results in pretty similar situation for expats like we see in China - absolute majority will not make it over the real real basics.

They are then commenting on many aspects of our country but usually totally miss the point ...

But what I do not get at all why these people (here and there as well) are so sure they must be correct and everybody around them is wrong.

And they even go extra mile to find people who are similar 'whiners' and mutually support each other ...

And then this story of 'wumaos' - if you write for 21 days, 8 hours a day, every minute one comment (what is virtually impossible) so you would earn a bit over 5,000 CNY a month!

Who would like to work for such a salary if the person is fluent in English?

Never mind laugh

8 years 4 weeks ago
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mArtiAn:

(Please excuse the lack of paragraphs, my phone has a problem) I don't have any problem with being called a laowai, though I did get mad when a woman called my son that the other day. As for the staring, I get it, it's curiosity, it's not meant as offense. It still can get a bit oppressive and annoying when you're sitting having a meal and everyone at the next table turns and stares at you whilst chatting about you, and they don't stop until you give them a look that says "Please give me and my family some privacy to enjoy our meal." It is invasive behaviour like that which creates negative opinions toward the Chinese. I agree about the whole wumao thing on here too, it's blown way out of proportion. I was accused of being a wumao for about the first six months of visiting this site. Besides which any job that pays so little is of little great importance. I don't know why anyone gives a shit. What is your first language anyway?

8 years 4 weeks ago
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Janosik:

My first language is 'Czechoslovak' - literally as one if my parents is Czech and the other Slovak and they both spoke their own language (Czech and Slovak are very close languages).

I feel for you what concerns of your son - yes, certainly unpleasant experience.

But I am afraid you will experience it still many times - mixed blood children are seen as very cute but the problem is that the surrounding environment may deny them the recognition as 'native'. May be in Singapore it's a bit better because many Chinese mixed with Malaysians and others so you can see the people of all shapes there. But for China (and certain parts of Europe) there is still long way to go ...

I must admit that I have a bit too thick a skin what concern of the attention the other people pay to me - I usually do not need to ignore it - I rarely notice that ...

I can understand some people are more sensitive to it.

But again - no way out.

I also assume that many people posting on this site in reality do not mean many of their post totally seriously and if challenged in the real life so they would back off.

I just find really surprising when somebody spends time, money and effort to come to far away country only to cry every other day how bad it is here. As per y point of view just a bit strange entertainment ...

8 years 4 weeks ago
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mArtiAn:

Mate, I know exactly what you're saying, but hey, show me an expat forum where everyone is just cracking jokes and getting on with their shit, and nobody's whining about everybody else's, and I'll be there in a flash.

8 years 4 weeks ago
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Keep crying, kid. 

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Because they know what they are talking about son, listen, learn and be wiser

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Shifu

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Don't worry, most of us basically like our lives here and we understand that China is still very much a developing culture.

 

But there are things which frustrate us here (often related to a developing culture) and we vent them online. I'm sure if you were in the USA you wouldn't go on Chinese foreigner forums to say to other foreign chinese in the US how everything in the USA is so wonderful and just as good or better as the things you are used to.

 

You would get frustrated sometimes too and wish to speak with others in a similar situation.

Janosik:

I would probably not go on Chinese forum anywhere in the world ... Nothing wrong with ventilation of negative ecperience even though some (as a matter of fact pretty many) points of view sound very extreme. But may be that you created such a community in here, partly therapeutic (as Coin mentioned), partly extremist and sometimes "normal" ... But this is not what I have in mind. I am really interested in the phenomena as I described it.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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mArtiAn:

To steal from your vernacular, J, I think extreme ventilation is exactly the phenomena as you described it. It's blowing off steam, it's not about logical argument. Just ask any man who's been married, they know all about the illogical nature of extreme ventilation. It's physical embodiment is the female form.

8 years 4 weeks ago
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Janosik:

@mArtiAn

I am married for quite a while already but never had illogical ventilation as you describe it.

Well, apparently different cultures use different methods.

It may not be a coincidence that for majority of this site participants English is mother language ...

Thank you for the hint though 

8 years 4 weeks ago
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mArtiAn:

Jesus, your wife's normal? Like, she gets mad but then calms down and says, "Wait, shit, I'm being a dick" when she's in the wrong. Wow, seriously, what's that like?

8 years 4 weeks ago
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Janosik:

It  can have something in common with the age. After a while you simply start understanding each other better and if you care you simply prevent the bad clashes.

But to be frank I did not have these 'movies' stories even in my youth ...

Do not know why.laugh

8 years 4 weeks ago
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8 years 5 weeks ago
 
Posts: 759

Shifu

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even the most nerdy, unathletic, loser can be a keyboard warrior, or an armchair general over the net. grow some skin, you'll be alright.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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8 years 5 weeks ago
 
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Emperor

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educated well spoken, well versed communicators on here from time to time, challenged with uneducated  (or uncaring) and often just opinionated stuff is  good to read, occasionally.

confrontation is sometimes good....

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Maybe about a year or so ago, there was a Chinese guy pretending to be a Westerner.  He had the same type of questions.  In fact his MO was similar to yours.  Maybe you are him, reincarnated or recycled from the wumao archives.  I like to think that people like you are on some kind of crazy English class assignment.  The government sends in the best to see if he can fool the foreigners.  At any rate, it has been mentioned that this is one of the milder China expat forums.  If you were in another forum, you might get skinned alive. 

And what makes you think an expat forum would somehow be "special”?  Anyone wanting to live in China for any extended amount of time is undoubtedly a little crazy (maybe full blown insane), but not necessarily more intelligent or insightful.  If you want intelligent conversation, perhaps you should see if the Harvard Review has a forum.  Only thing you find here is a bunch of foreigners who are pissed off that they made the mistake of choosing China instead of Taiwan.

Janosik:

Yes, and may be you are Santa Clause, right? If you do not like it in China so go to Taiwan. I guess China will not protest your leaving. And why such an expat forum should be different from the similar forum in our homecountries? It's actually quite easy. Because the average expat (especially in the country with lower living standard than his/her homecountry) is usually not an average guy. By the way why do you think this is the only forum I am on? On top that I so far did not meet the person (in real as well as virtual world) who could skin me alive ... Wait, aren't you the guy with having the bad ecperience with secondhand car dealers and instead of blaming them blaming China ...? OK, then no issue...

8 years 5 weeks ago
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Janosik:

Multiple post ...

8 years 5 weeks ago
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8 years 5 weeks ago
 
Posts: 1439

Shifu

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Wait, it doesn't?!

Janosik:

It almost looks like that when we implement a bit paraphrased 'democratic' principles so it does. At least apparent amount of people acts like when it would :) But may be, as iWolf probably rightly mentioned, they may just have been cursed.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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8 years 5 weeks ago
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RiriRiri:

Is this the game where I try to remove the useless words to guess the point?

No idea what you're trying to say but you definitely sound like that wumao from a few months ago.

8 years 4 weeks ago
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Janosik:

OK, I probably used inappropriate formulation.

Will try next time to write in simpler manner.

Basically I was joking but does not look to be important anymore angel

Wish you luck on your 'wumao' hunt.

I am anyway astonished by this wumao story.

If I imagine that a reasonable person can have 20-30 comments per hour (maximum probably 60) and will work 8 hours a day so it makes something about 200-300 comments per day.

If really each wold mean .5 CNY so we talk about 100-150 CNY per day.

With 21 one working days per month it makes up to 3,150 CNY a month (even if the person would need just one minute to write one so it would still make just about 5,040 CNY a month).

How can any reasonable Western believe that any Chinese more or less fluent in English could agree with such a salary for relatively hard work (imagine - 8 hours a day - every minute one comment) is beyond my comprehension.

But probably the problem is in the word 'reasonable' ...

I followed your discussion - or better messages exchange - with Shining about refugees and even though I pretty much agree with the outcome you reached I have very different reasoning for it. But that's not an issue- what was more shocking was the argumentation, or better phrased pure 'street shouting' used with very vague closing remark you were just playing ...

I really can believe that certain people may be of the opinion that earning 3-5,000 CNY a month for educated Chinese is totally acceptable.

Keep dreaming - I am not the one who wants to wake you up ...

8 years 4 weeks ago
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RiriRiri:

At this point I just have doubts. And until now I have never been wrong when I have called out wumaos, who have always ended up disappearing in oblivion.

8 years 4 weeks ago
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Janosik:

Well, may be the disappearing 'wumaos' were in fact no wumaos but quite normal people without any psychical trouble to survive in China, who rather decided to go for the website, which some of the members do not use for therapeutic purposes ...

Last Coin's question can be a good example of what I mean. 

8 years 4 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

Look on the Global Times forums - no thinking required for their wumaos!

8 years 4 weeks ago
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8 years 5 weeks ago
 
Posts: 35

Governor

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You must be new here  indecision

Janosik:

You mean on the forum or in China?

I am relatively new to the forum. Spent 4 years in China so far and currently no plans to leave.

8 years 4 weeks ago
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Some people use logic and rational argument, evidence, etc to argue.

 

Some just try to shout their way through.

 

When the former encounters the latter,  even the rational and logical can end up losing it, and replying with the same.

 

And, even when logic, rationality and evidence is provided to those who normally debate in such a way, if that evidence, logic etc don't lead to the same conclusions, then a sense of helplessness (or lack of understanding the FULL effects of a situation) can also lead to that aggressiveness.

 

 

(ps - I'm also naturally arrogant ;D)

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8 years 4 weeks ago
 
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A:  "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "S
A: "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "Shenzhen agent can connect you with an employer, who's authorized to hire waigouren ... and can sponsor Z visa." It's not like every 10th person you meet in Shenzhen's hood can sponsor work visa ...  The only way to change from student to labourer visa is just a regular way by: 1. Finding an employer, who'll apply for an Invitation letter; 2. Exit China and apply for Z visa in your home country's Chinese embassy; 3. Enter China in 30-days after Z visa was stamped into your travelling instrument ...As I am aware, you won't be able to switch to Working permit by remaining in China....,so make ready for a return to your home .... -- icnif77